Which Disney film is "the Darkest"?

[Lazario]

I voted for Hunchback because of its realism. Frollo represents the bad christian who thinks what he's doing is right and everything he did throughout the movie could have actually happened. Hunchback expresses the power of religion and how it could be used for good or evil, and it also expresses discrimination among different groups of people and Quasimodo. Also, you can't get a more sinister villain song than "Hellfire."

Funny that Disney had the guts to release this but wouldn't allow one of their sub-companies to release Dogma just 3 years later...

[Super Aurora]

It depends one what you mean by dark.

Black Cauldron draws and overall dark imagery and theme going but it's still fantasy in nature and Taran's group help balance that out.

With Pinocchio, The darkness is a subtext undertone that really makes the movie creepy whether it's the donkey scene, the coachman,etc. Something interesting about Pinocchio that the background really plays the part well in drawing out the atmosphere and mood. Even in Geppetto's workshop it created sense of eeriness with all the eye-staring toys, dim lighting, and uncomfortable sound effect. Jiminy Cricket's annoyance with the clock is an example for me. It was suppose to be a comic scene, and yet it was very eerie and creepy to me as a child, with background very dark, no background music, and just the clocks making the sound effect. Pinocchio seems to have a running consistency with this like Strombolli's puppet wagon, Pleasure Island, etc. This is why I love Pinocchio, it plays off the darkness to great level and yet not overly blatant that it would make people go "SHOCK, OMG"

The Great Mouse Detective did this but only for one scene which is the Toy room. It also did same thing that Pinocchio did. I like that.


Now the other dark one is, as most said before, HoND. For most part the gargoyles and sometimes Clopin brought up light heartness, which seems to take a lot of the creepy undertone darkness that Pinocchio has, bit out. But HoND does seems be the the one Disney movie at it's most realistic in terms of character direction, themes, and conflict. It deals with things even subjected upon now: Lust, misguide religious dogma, racism or ethnic discrimination, society conformity. Because of this it's the one disney movie that truly makes things more grey and than black and white like most Disney movies. The ending did have the Black and white clichness, but it was mostly due to Disney's image reputation. Despite it, it still create a mood and intellectual comprehension that I don't gain from watching most of the other Disney movies.

People say oh Disney's HoND is ruin from book. The book may have way more adult orientated events, you have to remember that Victor made this book as a means to give across a message and impression of his opinion of current event he living in. Kinda like how The Crucible was a indirect message Arthur Miller was trying to reach about the red scare. Disney's HoND is no different from Victor's in same message despite drastic story differences.

So yea, HoND, Pinocchio, and Black Cauldron for me.
HoND for it's theme subjects
Pinocchio for it's creepy undertone
and Black Cauldron for it's overlaying well played out on Dark, Grisly Atmosphere and villains.

Snow white is close but I think Pinocchio pulls the creepy undertones better and Black Cauldron pulls the dark shock atmosphere better.

Lion King's dark scenes were really so overshadowed from the humor, light heart and epicness to be consider my top 3. Scar, both alternate ending and his real ending with pretty creepy and the nazi theme is dark undertone well used, but that was about it. Scar was more a villain people love than is creeps out with.

Sleeping Beauty's is a joke to me. It's so Black and White that I don't take the Villain very seriously.

Fantasia, I see more of an artistic movie. It had some dark stuff but it wasn't a full narrative story for me go and consider it as one. The dinosaur scene is brutally awesome. that is cool.

Great Mouse Detective only had one super awesome dark scene which is the toy scene. Still love scene.

[Lazario]

It depends one what you mean by dark.

Black Cauldron draws and overall dark imagery and theme going but it's still fantasy in nature and Taran's group help balance that out.

Sleeping Beauty's is a joke to me. It's so Black and White that I don't take the Villain very seriously.

Fantasia, I see more of an artistic movie. It had some dark stuff but it wasn't a full narrative story for me go and consider it as one. The dinosaur scene is brutally awesome. that is cool.

"It depends on what you mean by dark." Yes, it does. What we mean. And ^ that's not.

[Super Aurora]

It depends one what you mean by dark.

Black Cauldron draws and overall dark imagery and theme going but it's still fantasy in nature and Taran's group help balance that out.

Sleeping Beauty's is a joke to me. It's so Black and White that I don't take the Villain very seriously.

Fantasia, I see more of an artistic movie. It had some dark stuff but it wasn't a full narrative story for me go and consider it as one. The dinosaur scene is brutally awesome. that is cool.

"It depends on what you mean by dark." Yes, it does. What we mean. And ^ that's not.

I'm merely reflecting what I see to consider dark. Everyone one have their own interpretation of what they see so. Don't act like your opinion is law.

[Lazario]

I'm merely reflecting what I see to consider dark. Everyone one have their own interpretation of what they see so. Don't act like your opinion is law.

You're so predictable and I don't even know you.

[Ostrum-Safari1992]

I'd have to say "Pinocchio", with the whole Pleasure Island sequence, not to mention that the none of the villains are defeated (well, they escape Monstro). The coachmen still gets away with doing what he does to the boys.

I think the early Disney films are the darkest, although "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" comes very close.

[Super Aurora]

I'm merely reflecting what I see to consider dark. Everyone one have their own interpretation of what they see so. Don't act like your opinion is law.

You're so predictable and I don't even know you.

So are you. Whenever someone "talk down" on Sleeping Beauty, you get all defensive over it. I haven't forgotten time in the thread when Goliath and I (and some others) brought up points why we thought Sleeping Beauty was very bland, and you went crazy, or at least your post seems to indicate that. Your pointless respond to my earlier post in this thread on Sleeping Beauty's "darkness" comes to no surprise.

You're great guy, and I like alot of what you have to say, but don't become like Disney Duster.

Now, now, ladies... Behave!

I'm a man damnit!

[Goliath]

Now, now, ladies... Behave!

[Disney's Divinity]

You're great guy, and I like alot of what you have to say, but don't become like Disney Duster.

Now, that's a bit mean. Sure, Disney Duster can be a bit wispy sometimes, but at least he's consistent in his opinions (and it seems like he does research a lot on the background of films and animation, so its not as if he goes on about nothing).

As for the actual topic (which I see I haven't posted in, strangely), I have a similarly hard time as SuperAurora, because I think most all Disney films have dark elements. But I would agree with the majority in saying Pinocchio. There seems to be an incredible tension throughout that whole film, that's not confined to one source--in TLM, SB, and SW, there are similar tensions, but it all comes mostly from one character and, once that character's dead, the tension is gone). I also think films like B&tB, Oliver and Company, and TF&TH have tension that's carried throughout their films as well (the abuse of the elderly in B&tB, in particular, has always struck a chord with me), but it's not as well-established as in Pinocchio (Lampwick's transformation always manages to give me chills, and Monstro is an animated force that outstrips even Cruella's automobile--which is something to say the least). The terror seems to come from so many variant sources and to increasing degrees as the movie goes along. The ending almost comes to the point where it isn't good enough--how can Pinocchio ever hope to grow up good in a world so corrupt, real or not?

As for Hunchback, blah. As with the films listed above, once Frollo's dead, the tension is gone. And while the movie offers a more threatening villain, considering he's a political leader gone mad and driven by self-driven psycho religious bs (something altogether real and/or possible), I still don't find the film to be as dark as Pinocchio. Still, the "And he shall smite the wicked..." line shows the film to be fairly dark.

With a more modern case, I actually found TP&TF to be a darker film. Not just with the Shadow creatures, but with how the film deals with race and the lower classes. Dr. Facilier uses magic, yes, but, as he says, his motive is more focused on money and/or hate of the upper (white?) class that forces him to remain a cockroach in the cracks (watching the film, his costume does evoke that similarity). It's that same feeling that corrupts an otherwise good character (Lawrence) into doing wrong. I think that predisposition to anger and revenge in people is a frightening thing--and something that happens even to 'good' people, like Tiana and Lawrence. Facilier comes off, very heavily to me, as symbolic of a drugdealer or someone who was loaned by those of the higher class (because he doesn't think you can get really get anywhere on your own--Tiana tries, and isn't successful, hence the temptation) who tries making something of himself the wrong ways (and with anger always at the back of his mind, which vaguely reminds me of the son in A Raisen in the Sun). And the temptation to do wrong--not strictly in religious sense, but with the sacrifice of your self-respect, etc.--is something that everyone has to deal with, but it weighs most heavily with the poor.

Moving on though, to me personally, TBC is a lot like Pinocchio, only not as well-executed. There's a similar sense of "every time you turn around" with Taran meeting Gurgi, the room with the corpses, Fflewdur tied to the wall, meeting the fairies, the witches, etc. Also, Gurgi having to die and the Horned King unleashing the dead on the world are striking moments. But...I don't know, I don't really have any fear over anything in the movie, and I'm never really concerned about Taran, et al or that the Horned King will win or not.

Brother Bear is another film where an interesting, perhaps dark, idea is given focus (that anyone can be/become a villain) where my apathy towards the movie keeps me from caring.

[Brina78]

In terms of everlasting visions in your head, constant nightmares long after the film ended, I would definitely have to say The Black Cauldron mainly for its continual graphic violence and frightening animation. There is also not enough cutesy moments to escape from it all. If the animators left in all of the original material (such as men having their flesh melted off), it would be rated either PG-13 or R. I have a picture of such a deleted scene of a guy with his face melting off and it's so horrible, I get nauseous looking at it.

I was six when I saw it in the theater. It creeped me out to no end but I was all right. Though, a poor friend of my sister's got horrible nightmares. Another scary live-action movie then was Return to Oz. I had nightmares of the sandbox at my school was the Deadly Desert! Or, Princess Mombi with her headless body chasing after Dorothy. *shudder* There were a lot of scary moments in that film. I love it though, very much in fact.

The realism of HOND, however, makes it very horrific and dark. The fact that Frollo is a mortal and could cause destruction with just an order to his men is frightening alone. A friend to my sister said she was more scared of Frollo than the Horned King because of this. Even though the Horned King is scary as all hell, Frollo is more of a real person, and to do those things to everyone plus practically burn down all of Paris makes for a very dark film.

Now that I think about it, The Great Mouse Detective should go on that list, too. Still had safe scenes of the light humor, but it had very dark moments, too. The kidnapping in the beginning, Fidget popping out, the climatic Big Ben scene to name a few. I love how the poster reads, "All New! All Fun!" and they show all the comedy parts in the trailers. They were hoping they could win the audience back after the catastrophe Cauldron caused.

So, anyway, without a chance to breathe from the dark scenes, I go with Cauldron all the way. The others do have their moments, really, I must agree, but Cauldron scared me the most.

[REINIER]

From beginning to end Hunchback has a dark colourscheme all over the movie..
True, it has it's bright moments (feast of fools) but even those are overshadowed by the humiliation of Quasimodo on the townsquare where again colour changes to more gloomy red and yellows.

I do think it is not a children's classic and should therefore have a pg rated label, which it didn't receive in Holland.

The Hellfire sequence is one of the most impressive disney songs ever put to animated pencil.

Frollo is threatening and this may just be me, but he has a lot of screentime in comparison to other disney-villains.

Might be due to the story-arc but altough I simply Love Frollo I think that's what first time viewers will remember most, that dark scheming villain and oh yeah...there's this poor schmuck with a hump on his back

[Lazario]

So are you. Whenever someone "talk down" on Sleeping Beauty, you get all defensive over it.

If you say so.

I haven't forgotten time

That must be very useful.

in the thread when Goliath and I (and some others) brought up points why we thought Sleeping Beauty was very bland, and you went crazy

Well then I hope you called the nearest loony bin and had me taken away. I don't exactly recall the details of my reaction to said incident. Tell me- did I bite anyone? Destroy property?

Your pointless respond to my earlier post in this thread on Sleeping Beauty's "darkness" comes to no surprise.

If you say so.

You're great guy, and I like alot of what you have to say

but don't become like Disney Duster.

Holy?

Now, now, ladies... Behave!

I could say the same to you. When was the last time someone on the board called you the easiest person to get along with?

[Super Aurora]

Now, now, ladies... Behave!

I could say the same to you. When was the last time someone on the board called you the easiest person to get along with?

People could ask you the same question. Seriously. I type in my view on the topic and all you could reply is this:

"It depends on what you mean by dark." Yes, it does. What we mean. And ^ that's not.

?





I think I'm going to be done.

[Lazario]

I could say the same to you. When was the last time someone on the board called you the easiest person to get along with?

People could ask you the same question.

I don't exactly think you were invited to my response to Goliath, thank you very much. He gets the joke.

Seriously. I type in my view on the topic and all you could reply is this:

"It depends on what you mean by dark." Yes, it does. What we mean. And ^ that's not.

?

I'm sorry that didn't impress you. I'll rush out right now and join all the world's most prestigious performance academies and clown colleges, then try to wow you again in 3 years.

I think I'm going to be done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJP2PH8WKaI

[Wonderlicious]

I'd probably say Pinocchio or Bambi are truly the darkest Disney animated films. Whilst they have cute elements and start off seeming like light and fluffy fairy-tales, they soon divulge into showing startling and frank depictions of cruelty at the hands of other beings. The fact that peaceful and funny scenes can exist so tactfully in the same films that contain the ruthless hunting of animals and the horrors of Pleasure Island shows some gut. The Lion King, Dumbo, The Fox and the Hound and The Rescuers are similarly dark, but Pinocchio and Bambi will always top the list.

I wouldn't call The Hunchback of Notre Dame as dark as some people say it is, but it is certainly darker (and probably truer to the original book, despite the daft changes) than the 1939 version. And I think that Golliath hit the nail on the head with his description of The Black Cauldron being simply grotesque.

[WDWLocal]

My vote goes to The Black Cauldron.

[Aqua]

Pinocchio scared the scrap out of me upon watching last year! I was never scared as a kid but something about that scene was unsettling.

I wish Disney movies were still like that. Oh but think of the children!

[Goliath]

@ Lazario & Super Aurora:

You two are probably the most interesting members on UD. You both make posts like nobody else, and you both have a unique style to it. It's a shame you have to fight like this. It would be so interesting to read an actual discussion between the two of you.

[zackiellovedisney]

For me it is Hunchback of Notre Dame hands down.

That movie is just so realistic. Like most people said Frollo pushes this movie into darkness. He makes the movie for me. The thing is that this movie can't have a happy scene. For every happy scene you get a very depressing scene. Think about it. Feast of Fools gets Quasimodo tied up and humiliated. Esmeralda escaping gets "God Help the Outcasts." And A Guy Like You has Esmeralda kissing Pheobus. The thing that makes it great is Quasi's life is miserable. So therefore since the movie follows his life it too should be miserable. And considering the subject matter you can't really make it happy without completely ripping off the novel.

This movie also pushed boundaries for kid movies at that time. Even if it was released today it would considered daring. It had religious taboos, disabled characters,lusting characters, the word "Hell" having it's own song, realism and all coming from the name of the mouse. It just makes the movie great and makes it my favorite.

[Lazario]

@ Lazario & Super Aurora:

You two are probably the most interesting members on UD. You both make posts like nobody else, and you both have a unique style to it. It's a shame you have to fight like this. It would be so interesting to read an actual discussion between the two of you.

He started it!

I'm so tired of people like him acting like he's so tough and like he's on a holy mission to save the board. I never said my opinion is anything more than what it is - I'm too literal for that. I don't mean anything more than what these words say and everyone knows it. It's anytime I contradict him and have conviction about it, he tries to insist I'm the same person I used to be on the board and that simply isn't true. He doesn't have a sense of humor (which I've acquired since coming back), and he doesn't want to even consider that I might have a point. When it comes to Sleeping Beauty, I've noticed that certain people get that way since the board has overall accepted the fact that Sleeping Beauty is less appreciated than the less brooding Cinderella and the goofy Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. And you know what, contrary to what he might have insisted- I don't care. I am not taking this topic that seriously. In fact, even his warrior act is funny to me. As I hope my replies have shown.



Besides, if I was going to get serious, I would say that Sleeping Beauty is only a side-effect of the overall bigger issue. Which is... I think as film watchers, many people here may be looking to these movies as beacons (shining examples of quality) for story. And that's ridiculous. Because as I've said many times, all these movies have hugely flawed stories. They make impressions on us of having better stories than they have actually have, more well-defined characters, and more cultural relevance (which I know makes my tongue-lashings at Beauty and the Beast irrelevant in terms of excessive distaste for, but really- I was just having fun poking that turkey the whole time). We all have a way of bringing our own reality to criticizing or appreciating any of these movies. But it's just a combination of artificial ingredients that make us think these movies can stand up in any way to live-action filmmaking. They're different animals entirely. We don't all need Aurora to have more details to accept her as a main character, just as functioning as any other Disney female character from around that time. The best a Disney animated film will ever achieve is to be the best anti-real movie it can be. The best fantasy film, Disney fairy tale (completely its' own thing). To allow us to think we experienced more than we did, just for the purpose of grand escapism. To suggest, through art, that these movies reflect more than just our dreams and childhood fantasies. That's why I've always stressed so much importance on Disney magic over following obnoxious trends and getting heavy-handed with potential social commentary. And why my appreciation for certain films has waned considerably (especially in the cases of Lady and the Tramp - the pure definition of bland - and Bambi - one big pretty billboard ad for Procreation; might as well have "try it sometime!" as a tagline).

Good thing I didn't go down that road again.

Oh... wait.