Why did Disney support laserdisc so much?

[ajmrowland]

There's a thing about the french taking advantage of hardware: they have the money to do so. Here, everything needs to be written in stone before the money is spent on things the studios aren't even sure of. There's a reason that so many tentpole films are made, after all.

[Elladorine]

No doubt the whole "soccer mom thing" was just one of many excuses to cut back on production costs, which is why I referred to it as a "supposed reason." If they can still make a substantial profit with as little effort/investment as possible, they're gonna do it. And if they're hurting their own reputation as a company that cares about quality and value for their customers, well . . . hopefully they'll someday learn from their mistakes but since the majority of their customers don't seem to care I'd wager they have little incentive to change.

And unfortunately, we're not entitled to any of this material. Disney owns it. Like it or not, it's their prerogative to release whatever it wants, whenever it wants, however it wants, even if they're screwing us (and even themselves) over in the process. They have plenty of incentive to hold back on whatever features we're looking for because they know the majority of us will buy it regardless (no matter how much some of us complain!) and will likely double or even triple-dip later on down the road (if we haven't already). And at the same time, it's our prerogative to get the word out about how we feel and vote with our wallets; and yes, we certainly have the option of buying used (or not at all) if we'd rather not directly support Disney's decisions.

I will admit it's a little frustrating to own material I don't have access to yet since we haven't picked up a Blu-ray player, but not as much as you might think. I don't really expect anyone else to be this way but I'm strangely patient. Is it weird that I bought my first DVD's before I had a DVD player? And since I felt the earliest Disney barebones DVD's were a rip-off, I bought all my early discs used for around $10 each instead of breaking down and paying the retail of $30-$40. I am a bargain hunter at heart, after all. We do have a couple of HD TV's now, both of which were picked up for a great price when Circuit City was closing its doors last year. And in all honestly my main reason for even being interested in Blu-rays at the moment (besides the dirt-cheap deals I've recently taken advantage of) would be for the higher-quality picture: DVD's don't fill the HD screen properly and the TV's zoom function only magnifies the flaws, making the images appear jagged and pixelated. I'm really looking forward to the higher quality of the Blu-rays once we pick up a player, but it's not a top-priority for us at the moment with the amount of bills we currently have (like David S., we already have several DVD players here and I'd rather spend my extra money on discs at the moment). I'm still pretty happy with the quality of my current DVD's regardless (in my mind I'm still making comparisons to the broadcast TV and VHS's I grew up with) and maybe that's another reason I'm diggin' the combo packs . . . the DVD (even if its practically barebones) will tide me over until we can grab that player.

I can't personally compare Disney's actions to other studios; I'm simply not interested in collecting much outside of DAC's and Pixar films these days (although there will always be some exceptions, especially with animated films regardless of the studio). And perhaps its unfortunate that I've been losing interest in bonus features lately. I'm not sure if I'm tired of being disappointed or if my priorities have changed or what. Way back when Lilo and Stitch was first released to DVD, I was extremely disappointed that we didn't get the documentary that was specifically shot for it as well as certain deleted scenes, but bought the release regardless because I wanted the movie. And the documentary and deleted scenes surfaced in the US how many years later on a new edition. I'd since lost the original disc due to a move and gladly bought the new DVD to replace it, although I'm sure I would have picked it up even if I hadn't lost the original for that long-awaited material. But when I finally got to watch what I'd waited so long for? I was strangely disappointed; I know I would have enjoyed those features so much more several years ago. Yet at the same time, I realize how important these features are to the fans (even if only as a reason to document the history of the studio) and do feel it's important that they be made available.

Anyway, I think this has been an interesting conversation and am relieved it hasn't resorted to the overly-condescending and snarky, self-righteous remarks I've seen in so many threads. I hope we can all continue to talk about this calmly and rationally.

[jpanimation]

Though LaserDisc failed to catch on with the general public, it became the format of choice (much like Blu-Ray today) for movie collectors, film buffs, tech early adopters and Hollywood insiders, due to its superior picture and (though quite expensive by today's standards) lower price point than VHS.

How can Laser Disc, a niche market, be compared to Blu-ray? There were only about 2 million Laser Disc players sold in the U.S. throughout its two decade long life span (it never caught on outside Japan). Compare that to 11.7 million Blu-ray players sold in the U.S. just the 4 years its been out.

Blu-ray is expected to hit 34 million units sold worldwide in 2010, up from 14 million in 2009. A total of 16.8 million Laserdisc players were sold worldwide during it's lifespan. There has been 33.5 million PS3s sold. I think people are really downplaying Blu-ray adoption.

With that said, I agree with 2099net. I don't think Blu-ray will ever reach the adoption level of DVD, even with it currently being adopted faster then DVD was. The reason being, as said, there are soo many alternate options for consumers; either out or coming soon. Not only are Blu-ray players backwards compatible with DVD (making adopters less likely to upgrade titles they currently own), but it has to compete with digital distribution (digital downloads and online streaming services) and the big one, mail-in and streaming rental services; where as DVD didn't really have competition after VHS faded away. Blu-ray will most likely be the last physical format, with the software and storage capacity being so upgradable, and the PQ/AQ being as far as necessary for any home theater.

I think the reason Blu-ray is being adopted so quickly in the middle of a recession is the consumers wanting to make their home theaters the best they can be to make up for them no longer going to the cinemas (its cheaper to just rent or buy a Blu-ray then take a whole family to the cinema). This way their first experience with the movie will be as close to the cinema experience as it can be, spurring adoption of this format in an economy that just cant afford the high ticket prices, and they won't feel they missed out on anything. Avatar is doing so well because the many people who usually wait for the Blu-ray/DVD rental/purchase just know the experience won't be the same as in theaters.

[kurtadisneyite]

With 3D in homes becoming a reality (plasma sets from Panasonic working the best so far), BluRay may hang on longer than expected simply because the digital bandwidth to do 3D over internet will be substantially higher than 2D BluRay quality. So for those wanting best picture quality, a top notch Bluray 3D player will be the answer for a while yet.

Side note: ALICE IN WONDERLAND, the Tim Burton version, is making a boatload of cash from its 3D presentation, all the more astounding considering the film was never shot in 3D !! It was __converted__ to 3D by the same process used for all 2D > 3D conversion that tends to produce a Moving Viewmaster look.
Given Alice's success with this process, IMHO Disney's future 3D conversions, such as BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, should do very well in converted 3D form.

[kurtadisneyite]

BTW, one reason Disney may have been so enthusiastic about Laser Discs was it had a top notch boutique authoring house making the menus and other special features for their laser discs - Gork Enterprises, located in San Fernando, CA. Gork's now an award winning provider of DVD and BluRay menus, special features and authoring.

[littlefuzzy]

There were only about 2 million Laser Disc players sold in the U.S. throughout its two decade long life span (it never caught on outside Japan). Compare that to 11.7 million Blu-ray players sold in the U.S. just the 4 years its been out.

Blu-ray is expected to hit 34 million units sold worldwide in 2010, up from 14 million in 2009. A total of 16.8 million Laserdisc players were sold worldwide during it's lifespan. There has been 33.5 million PS3s sold. I think people are really downplaying Blu-ray adoption.

Of those 11.7 million Blu-Ray players sold in the US, How many were PS3s, and how many of those were gamers buying the latest game system (that happened to play BR movies), rather than movie watchers who bought a reasonably priced (at the time) BR player (that happened to also be a next-gen game system)?

Sure, BR is taking off now, but it (and HD-DVD) WERE a niche market early on (especially with the competing formats.) Actually, I'd say there woudn't have been as quick or a decisive victory if the PS3 hadn't been a Blu-Ray player, or if the X-Box 360 had included an HD-Drive built into the system.

[yamiiguy]

There were only about 2 million Laser Disc players sold in the U.S. throughout its two decade long life span (it never caught on outside Japan). Compare that to 11.7 million Blu-ray players sold in the U.S. just the 4 years its been out.

Blu-ray is expected to hit 34 million units sold worldwide in 2010, up from 14 million in 2009. A total of 16.8 million Laserdisc players were sold worldwide during it's lifespan. There has been 33.5 million PS3s sold. I think people are really downplaying Blu-ray adoption.

Of those 11.7 million Blu-Ray players sold in the US, How many were PS3s, and how many of those were gamers buying the latest game system (that happened to play BR movies), rather than movie watchers who bought a reasonably priced (at the time) BR player (that happened to also be a next-gen game system)?

Sure, BR is taking off now, but it (and HD-DVD) WERE a niche market early on (especially with the competing formats.) Actually, I'd say there woudn't have been as quick or a decisive victory if the PS3 hadn't been a Blu-Ray player, or if the X-Box 360 had included an HD-Drive built into the system.

By the wording it sounds like the 11.7 million excludes PS3 as the PS3 sold 33.5 million.

[littlefuzzy]

There are several different statistics there...

11.7 million players sold in the US (total) - including PS3s - http://www.dvdinformation.com/ - according to that link, it's 17 million now.

expected to hit 34 million units in 2010 (I PRESUME that is 2010 only, not counting previous years.)

33 million PS3s sold world-wide (as of November 2009.)

[ajmrowland]

I know a lady who buys blu-ray and watches them on her BD Player and HDTV, but she couldn't be further from the niche market of movie buffs and tech geeks.

[merlinjones]

Regardless of blu-ray's reach, which is a different format for a different time - - the laserdisc market belonged entirely to the film buff and tech adopters and those lavish box-set releases were driven by Pioneer and Image as licensees and distributors of the niche product (in imitation of Criterion), not by Disney, which was always interested in the broad market rather than the specialty markets even then.

Perhaps smaller niche companies like Shout Factory or Anchor Bay would do better with Walt Disney Treasures and other film buff material on DVD or blu today if they could license the material...

[AKA]

Anchor Bay has been able to license TV series from Buena Vista, so there's at least a slight glimmer of hope...

[Maerj]

The Laserdisc format was around for quite some time. I recall seeing a player demo in a store when I was a kid and thought it was pretty cool. Then I didn't see them again for years.

I was really into anime back when it was still called Japanimation and it wasn't all dubbed or subtitled. I remember actually going to Philly where people would meet up and watch anime videos and one person would translate for the rest of us. It was kind of fun actually.

Anyway, people at the time said that if you wanted really good quality picture, as opposed to the bootleg VHS anime videos, you had to get them on LD. So, I did. Players were pretty expensive and movies weren't easy to come by. Regular movies were available around $20 - $40 and the big super special edition box sets were around $100. The discs were pretty big but there were players that automatically played the other side without having to take the disc out and flipping it over. They had CAV discs that you could watch frame by frame and there were other features like still picture with sound, slow motione, etc.

The first spec edition set I got was Aliens. The supplements were unlike anything else seen at the time and it was a best seller in the LD world. T2 was another amazing set, they actually did port all the extras over for the DVD.

Disney then came out with Snow White. Another amazing set. It came with a nice hardback book, lithos, tons of extras, all in a large impressive box.

Yeah, they def were catering to the hardcore movie fan back then and it was great! The few sets I mentioed were almost like a film class in a box.

[BK]

Disney won't lease out Walt Disney Treasures of all things.

Even if they did, isn't AB small and unreliable with their releases?

Also if Disney decide to take it back then chances are any special features will be exclusive again forcing double/triple dips.

[ajmrowland]

I'm really tempted to buy an LD player. Anyone know where I can find one cheap outside ebay? the only one Amazon has is $600!

[merlinjones]

>>Even if they did, isn't AB small and unreliable with their releases? Also if Disney decide to take it back then chances are any special features will be exclusive again forcing double/triple dips.<<

We'd still be better of than we are now. I'd suggest Shout Factory. They have been lately picking up classic TV series season sets where the original studios left off (for example, they are doing "Leave it to Beaver" from season 3 and the entire series in box set - - when Universal stopped at 2) with extras and remastering to boot.