Fantasia/F2K: 2-Movie Collection Discussion: Nov. 30, 2010

[jpanimation]

So no one thought to ask:

Will Fantasia be uncut?

What is Fantasia World?

At least we somewhat have a release time frame (although I'm EXTREMELY disappointed it's been delayed).

[ajmrowland]

We dont know about Fantasia being uncut, but Fantasia World is meant to be comprised of the shorts that were made for Fantasia 2006.

[jpanimation]

When was it confirmed beyond speculation?

[miniroll32]

I'm really looking forward to this release. Up to now, home releases have never had, what could be considered, the original theatrical release because so many sections have been lost/mixed up.

Disney said in their statement regarding the introduction of the Diamond Editions (last year) that "the revolutionary new Diamond Collection brings audiences the most immersive and highest-level viewing experience".

I would say that, if they keep to their word regarding the release of the truest-to-match content, Fantasia could even go as far as including the entire 'Intermission' that has not been seen on any home video format. Its actually just the orchestra (in front of the blue backdrop) jamming to a long song, but it would certainly be a revelation.

The problem though with having so much material from the various releases is how they are going to compose the final cut.

I'm still unsure they'll release in November, though. It would seem poor planning financially to put both Diamond editions back to back.[/b]

[Goliath]

All I want is that Disney uses the right colors this time. I mean, how hard is it to release your own company's films with the right colors? Why did they use much brighter, flat colors last time? It makes no sense at all.

Man why do you have to be like that, i mean seriously?
why are be so bitter about bluray.

For the same reason that some newbies have hijacked this thread in order to bash the dvd-format and root for its demise. If you can dish it out, you also have to take it in...

This thread was about Beauty and the Beast- Diamond Edition, not about "using dvds as coasters".

And because BluRay is the buggest scam of the past decade.

Umm, why? Blu-Ray is the chosen successor to DVD, if you hate Blu-Ray that much your just going to have to deal with it if your ever going to see a movie in the future.

As if BluRay will ever replace dvd! Face it: people aren't going to replace their perfectly good dvd equipment for something they don't need. Introducing Blu only a couple of years after dvd was adapted by most people was a big mistake. The industry gambled on us to buy into it as sheep, but they were wrong.

If you love Disney films why would you not love a vastly improved version of them that comes with the version you buy? Even if you don't have a Blu-ray player now, you likely will at some point. They are already available in the $100 range quite often.

Oh, if I wanted, I would have 3 of them. I have money a-plenty. That's not the problem. It's a matter of principle. Just a couple of years after the people have adopted massively to dvd, the industry comes up with this new format. They spend years promoting dvd as this format that delivers the best picture and sound quality, and as soon as the people have adopted it, they start saying that format is crap. Now it's BluRay we need. Don't you see that it's just a marketing ploy?

I watched Snow White on dvd on mt non-HD non-big screen tv, and it looked GREAT! Like it was made yesterday! Picture quality was amazing, sound was perfect, I was totally sucked into the film. Why would I want to go to BluRay then? There's simply a limit to how cristal-clear the image can get. At some point, improvement isn't possible anymore. I already got the best. Everything else is marketing.

I would be very surprised if your next DVD player is not also a Blu-ray player, unless you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Well, I just told you, it's a matter of principle. I will not be swindled into something I don't need.

[ajmrowland]

Man why do you have to be like that, i mean seriously?
why are be so bitter about bluray.

For the same reason that some newbies have hijacked this thread in order to bash the dvd-format and root for its demise. If you can dish it out, you also have to take it in...

This thread was about Beauty and the Beast- Diamond Edition, not about "using dvds as coasters".

Well, yeah a few people have said that. Also, this is the Fantasia thread. Beauty and the Beast is over there by the water fountain.

And because BluRay is the buggest scam of the past decade

Scam: 1.
a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle.

But people wont have to replace their entire collection. They're just using that as an excuse not to buy into the format. A scam is a downright lie, but the studios never said that all movies have to be re-bought. In fact, "you'll still be able to play all your standard DVDs".

Umm, why? Blu-Ray is the chosen successor to DVD, if you hate Blu-Ray that much your just going to have to deal with it if your ever going to see a movie in the future.

As if BluRay will ever replace dvd! Face it: people aren't going to replace their perfectly good dvd equipment for something they don't need. Introducing Blu only a couple of years after dvd was adapted by most people was a big mistake. The industry gambled on us to buy into it as sheep, but they were wrong.

all the facts are continuing to prove you wrong. the adoption rate is still far bigger than that of DVD in it's fourth year on the market. That said, absolutely no one's predicting a quick death for DVD, not even blu fanboys.

If you love Disney films why would you not love a vastly improved version of them that comes with the version you buy? Even if you don't have a Blu-ray player now, you likely will at some point. They are already available in the $100 range quite often.

Oh, if I wanted, I would have 3 of them. I have money a-plenty. That's not the problem. It's a matter of principle. Just a couple of years after the people have adopted massively to dvd, the industry comes up with this new format. They spend years promoting dvd as this format that delivers the best picture and sound quality, and as soon as the people have adopted it, they start saying that format is crap. Now it's BluRay we need. Don't you see that it's just a marketing ploy?

You can say the McDonald's Salad is just a marketing ploy. You can say Video Games are a marketing ploy. TV might've been a marketing ploy at some time. I know Big Screens were at first. In a world of almost nothing but marketing, you can find ploys in anything.

I watched Snow White on dvd on mt non-HD non-big screen tv, and it looked GREAT! Like it was made yesterday! Picture quality was amazing, sound was perfect, I was totally sucked into the film. Why would I want to go to BluRay then? There's simply a limit to how cristal-clear the image can get. At some point, improvement isn't possible anymore. I already got the best. Everything else is marketing.

but if you were to watch the same on a bigger tv, the connection would be horrible. watching the dvd on your laptop, you might see an actual quality difference.

I would be very surprised if your next DVD player is not also a Blu-ray player, unless you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Well, I just told you, it's a matter of principle. I will not be swindled into something I don't need.

In the end, only time will tell.

[podman]

If you love Disney films why would you not love a vastly improved version of them that comes with the version you buy? Even if you don't have a Blu-ray player now, you likely will at some point. They are already available in the $100 range quite often.

Oh, if I wanted, I would have 3 of them. I have money a-plenty. That's not the problem. It's a matter of principle. Just a couple of years after the people have adopted massively to dvd, the industry comes up with this new format. They spend years promoting dvd as this format that delivers the best picture and sound quality, and as soon as the people have adopted it, they start saying that format is crap. Now it's BluRay we need. Don't you see that it's just a marketing ploy?

Ahhhh, ok, now I get it.

Not much point in debating you point by point I suppose, as it's clear that this is thinking not dedicated to logic and reason, but an emotional attachment to DVD and an investment you feel is being made less valuable (even though your DVDs will work in any Blu-ray player exactly as they are).

I would point out a few things.

Firstly, DVD was introduced in 1997. I'm sorry if you completely missed the boat by more than 10 years. So what period of time do you find acceptable before a new format is introduced? 15 years? 20 years? I don't think Walt would have agreed with you in any way, shape, or form. He was always pushing the envelope, first with sound, then with color.

Secondly, it's clear that you do not have a large television (or have one and are not sensitive to image quality). There is no issue with you being satisfied with what you have and its size, resolution, and clarity. But you really should realize that many of us are not. Blu-ray makes an amazing difference at larger screen sizes, and many of us have legitimate reasons to purchase it. Your implication is that anyone purchasing Blu-ray is a fool, simply responding to maketing hype. I would hope that you would understand that simply because you do not value something does not mean that it does not have value to others.

Third, it should be obvious but it seems to need stating: DVD DID have the best picture and sound quality all the years they were promoting it as such. Now there is a new format that inagruably DOES have better video and sound quality. You seem to be confused and thinking that they lied to you in some way, but that is clearly not true. Things change in life. The most talented baseball right now may not be the most talented player in five years. But that does not retroactively make everyone who stated they were the most talented before a lier.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your DVD player for many, many years to come. I have no ill will towards the format (in fact I have loved it dearly since 1997 when I purchased my first DVD player to replace my laserdisc player, which I also loved for MANY years). You may interpret this to mean that I am a slave to the marketing machine. Or you may take a more reasonable stance and understand that I am someone who appreciates home video quality and finds the additional expense of one format over the other to be an acceptable premium. Without us, you would never have been able to enjoy DVD and would instead still be rewinding highly degraded VHS tapes to return to the Blockbuster. But from the sounds of things, perhaps you would have been just as happy that way.

[milojthatch]

All I want is that Disney uses the right colors this time. I mean, how hard is it to release your own company's films with the right colors? Why did they use much brighter, flat colors last time? It makes no sense at all.

Man why do you have to be like that, i mean seriously?
why are be so bitter about bluray.

For the same reason that some newbies have hijacked this thread in order to bash the dvd-format and root for its demise. If you can dish it out, you also have to take it in...

This thread was about Beauty and the Beast- Diamond Edition, not about "using dvds as coasters".

And because BluRay is the buggest scam of the past decade.

Umm, why? Blu-Ray is the chosen successor to DVD, if you hate Blu-Ray that much your just going to have to deal with it if your ever going to see a movie in the future.

As if BluRay will ever replace dvd! Face it: people aren't going to replace their perfectly good dvd equipment for something they don't need. Introducing Blu only a couple of years after dvd was adapted by most people was a big mistake. The industry gambled on us to buy into it as sheep, but they were wrong.

If you love Disney films why would you not love a vastly improved version of them that comes with the version you buy? Even if you don't have a Blu-ray player now, you likely will at some point. They are already available in the $100 range quite often.

Oh, if I wanted, I would have 3 of them. I have money a-plenty. That's not the problem. It's a matter of principle. Just a couple of years after the people have adopted massively to dvd, the industry comes up with this new format. They spend years promoting dvd as this format that delivers the best picture and sound quality, and as soon as the people have adopted it, they start saying that format is crap. Now it's BluRay we need. Don't you see that it's just a marketing ploy?

I watched Snow White on dvd on mt non-HD non-big screen tv, and it looked GREAT! Like it was made yesterday! Picture quality was amazing, sound was perfect, I was totally sucked into the film. Why would I want to go to BluRay then? There's simply a limit to how cristal-clear the image can get. At some point, improvement isn't possible anymore. I already got the best. Everything else is marketing.

I would be very surprised if your next DVD player is not also a Blu-ray player, unless you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Well, I just told you, it's a matter of principle. I will not be swindled into something I don't need.

Well said. I'm sick of internet fan boys with more money then brains trying to talk everyone else into a format that is already thought of as obsolete itself. It is so ridicules, Blue Ray hasn't even replaced DVD like DVD did to VHS and we now have Blue Ray 3D coming out! Then don't even get me started on video on demand.

Basically, Hollywood is trying to find way to get you to buy their films in as many ways as they can to cash in on them more then once. For some, it will not work, but for other with a lack of brains and no concept of what saving accounts are for, they will keep buying and re-buying the same stuff over and over again in the quest for "The best picture and sound EVER!"

Fan boys I hate to break it to you, but I think at this point it is clear they will always have "a better version" for you to buy. I say cut your losses, enjoy and be grateful for what you already have and if you really feel the need to waste money like that, give it to a charity, someone who needs it more then the fat cats in Hollywood. The "format wars" and everything connected to how Americans watch their movie is in my mind one of the best examples of what is wrong in America today. Greed and never being satisfied with what you have, nothing is ever enough or ever good enough.

I'm done now.

Back to "Fantasia," I am really interested in what will be on "Fantasia World" and how they will re-lease it.

[podman]

Again... why is it that those of us who enjoy Blu-ray are supposedly foolish slaves to marketing campaigns?

Is it not ok for me to decide when an upgrade is worth it and when it is not? Should we simply burn all artwork that you don't enjoy because it's obviously worthless?

I really can't believe the hubris of the last few DVD posts. "I don't find Blu-ray to be worthy so obviously anyone who does is an idiot."

If 30% of the population had three arms and you did not would that mean that anyone buying a three armed sweater is a fool?

You guys need to understand that you are not the judge of what is and is not valuable to the rest of humanity. Some people want Blu-ray... others do not. There's no reason to be so self centered.

Now if you wanted to say "I don't think Disney should be forcing people with DVD to buy a Blu-ray combo or wait three months for a release" I would agree with you. But these ludicrous comments decreeing anyone who enjoys Blu-ray a silly idiot who simply does not have the intelligence to know how to spend their money are the height of ridiculousness.

[milojthatch]

Again... why is it that those of us who enjoy Blu-ray are supposedly foolish slaves to marketing campaigns?

Is it not ok for me to decide when an upgrade is worth it and when it is not? Should we simply burn all artwork that you don't enjoy because it's obviously worthless?

I really can't believe the hubris of the last few DVD posts. "I don't find Blu-ray to be an worthy so obviously anyone who does is an idiot."

If 50% of the population had three arms and you did not would that mean that anyone buying a three armed sweater is a fool?

You guys need to understand that you are not the judge of what is and is not valuable to the rest of humanity. Some people want Blu-ray... others do not. There's no reason to be so self centered.

It is a two way street friend. Blue Ray fans boy have as much right to slam DVD as DVD fans do for Blue Ray. It's your money and I'm happy you have so much to never stop re-buying movies you already have, but I don't and even if I did, I can be content with what I have. How many times do you need to buy a movie before it is "the best?"

I can be grateful for for what I have and not feel the need to always want more. More stuff by the way that really will not mater after your dead. I mean I don't care how great that picture and sound it, it means nothing in the grave. Why don't you save your money and help get your kid, or some kid, into college or something like that!

[podman]

Again... why is it that those of us who enjoy Blu-ray are supposedly foolish slaves to marketing campaigns?

Is it not ok for me to decide when an upgrade is worth it and when it is not? Should we simply burn all artwork that you don't enjoy because it's obviously worthless?

I really can't believe the hubris of the last few DVD posts. "I don't find Blu-ray to be an worthy so obviously anyone who does is an idiot."

If 50% of the population had three arms and you did not would that mean that anyone buying a three armed sweater is a fool?

You guys need to understand that you are not the judge of what is and is not valuable to the rest of humanity. Some people want Blu-ray... others do not. There's no reason to be so self centered.

It is a two way street friend. Blue Ray fans boy have as much right to slam DVD as DVD fans do for Blue Ray. It's your money and I'm happy you have so much to never stop re-buying movies you already have, but I don't and even if I did, I can be content with what I have. How many times do you need to buy a movie before it is "the best?"

I can be grateful for for what I have and not feel the need to always want more. More stuff by the way that really will not mater after your dead. I mean I don't care how great that picture and sound it, it means nothing in the grave. Why don't you save your money and help get your kid, or some kid, into college or something like that!

Why on Earth do "Blu-ray fan boys" have a right to slam DVD? I have no desire to. And I don't feel the need to simply because you have a different opinion.

Why not simply state that you don't find the advantages of Blu-ray to be compelling enough to buy them?

Again, you seem to think you are the ultimate authority on what has value on this earth. I would again inform you that you could not be more wrong.

But I guess you will continue to ignore all arguments and simply keep blathering on about how everyone has been hoodwinked and that Blu-ray is clearly not worth it, all the while failing to understand the difference between two simple terms: opinion and fact.

I don't like the kind of cereal you've been buying lately. You're an idiot and are not spending your money appropriately. That chocalate flavor you love is simply NOT worth the extra dime you are spending on each box. I'm just some random guy on the internet but I clearly know what's best for you and what is worthwhile for every other human being. If I was seriously trying to tell you that and it didn't make you mad you would have real problems.

Goodbye. I've had enough intolerance for one evening.

[DiscoDan]

I hate these blu ray vs dvd arguments, but they just seem so ridiculous I have to comment sometimes...

why would anyone be anti-blu ray?! I mean, it's not like you have to rewire your whole house to have it.. just buy a $80 player from wal-mart, and an hdmi cord and you're set. Prices for blu rays are about the same as dvds.. and blu ray players still play your old collection... unless you just have some kind of sight issues with pictures displayed in a higher clarity it just doesn't make any sense to dislike it.

anyway, it doesn't really bother me, the slim amount of people who viciously reject blu ray won't have the buying power to keep it from becoming the common form of home entertainment.

[Scamander]

@milojthatch: Seriously- who says that anyone who buy Blu-rays is upgrading his whole collection or even some films? And even if so, it's totally their stuff! Stop calling other people foolish solely because your so-called standpoint is the expanse of your horizon.

[jpanimation]

It is a two way street friend. Blue Ray fans boy have as much right to slam DVD as DVD fans do for Blue Ray. It's your money and I'm happy you have so much to never stop re-buying movies you already have, but I don't and even if I did, I can be content with what I have. How many times do you need to buy a movie before it is "the best?"

Wow, first off, way off topic. This has become another Blu bash. Personally, I don't have much money and I prefer Blu-rays because of it. Studios have been making the Blu-rays cheaper then the DVDs for a while now, so I consider myself saving my money, as you suggested. As for re-buying DVDs, why? I got into the DVD game real late and only have a couple (I was a VHS holdout who mirrored your sentiments with DVD). So for me, buying the Blu-rays is the first time for me owning these movies. It probably makes me an idiot with loads of money for choosing the newer format when buying a movie for the first time.

Anyways, I don't know where the rumors of Blu-ray not being as successful as DVD are coming from. If anything, the familiarity with the disc format and VERY competitive pricing has made adoption way faster then DVD at the same point. As said before, Blu-ray is being marketed as premium to DVD, not its replacement. They constantly market the merits of Blu-ray players not only playing your DVDs, but up converting them to near HD so you can keep your vast collection. Sure, they'd love it if you re-bought your entire collection but in no way are they forcing you to do it or marketing it as a necessity.

With that said, I only wish I had the money that many on here seem to have. I only have 5 Blu-rays in total, all of which I bought in the $10-15 range, and never owned a DVD for. I'm perfectly happy with my purchases.

[Elladorine]

Yikes, yet another thread derailed to DVD vs. Blu-ray. Can we take this debate somewhere more appropriate?

Official DVD vs. Blu-ray Topic
Is Disney Done with DVD? (The Never Ending Blu-Ray Debate)

[The_Iceflash]

Yikes, yet another thread derailed to DVD vs. Blu-ray. Can we take this debate somewhere more appropriate?

Official DVD vs. Blu-ray Topic
Is Disney Done with DVD? (The Never Ending Blu-Ray Debate)

I said that last page when the DVD bashing spree was going on. I was just laughed at and it continued on.

Wow, first off, way off topic. This has become another Blu bash.

You didn't see the last couple of pages at all did you?




It's funny how when there's DVD bashing there's few if any who say something about it but when it's countered by Blu-bashing it's considered blasphemous and seen as destroying the thread.

[Goliath]

The "format wars" and everything connected to how Americans watch their movie is in my mind one of the best examples of what is wrong in America today. Greed and never being satisfied with what you have, nothing is ever enough or ever good enough.

Indeed, that's the mindset behind it that I hate. But when I said it last time, I was called a communist...

I really can't believe the hubris of the last few DVD posts. "I don't find Blu-ray to be worthy so obviously anyone who does is an idiot."

Hubris? Excuse me, but have you read the last two pages of this thread? Wasn't that one big bashing of dvd and the people who still enjoy it? It's okay to dish it out, but you can't take it in?

Now if you wanted to say "I don't think Disney should be forcing people with DVD to buy a Blu-ray combo or wait three months for a release" I would agree with you.

I'm saying that TOO!

@ podman: If you're interested in my point of view, please read my answers to ajmrowland:

Well, yeah a few people have said that. Also, this is the Fantasia thread. Beauty and the Beast is over there by the water fountain.

You're right, I was mistaken. This thread is about Fantasia/Fantasia 2000 Diamond Edition. Unfortunately, the last two pages consist only of the same tired dvd vs. blu argument. So I thought I'd jump in.

But people wont have to replace their entire collection. They're just using that as an excuse not to buy into the format. A scam is a downright lie, but the studios never said that all movies have to be re-bought. In fact, "you'll still be able to play all your standard DVDs".

But where did I cite that as an argument? I know you can play your old dvd's on a BluRay-player. That's not the point. The scam lies in the fact that the marketing teams of the industry try to trick people into "better quality" when they themselves previously convinced the people (and rightly so) that dvd was the best there was. In 3 years, they will think up something new again, and claim that BluRay is total crap and the new thing brings the best quality. There is a point where it can't get any better, face it.

all the facts are continuing to prove you wrong. the adoption rate is still far bigger than that of DVD in it's fourth year on the market. That said, absolutely no one's predicting a quick death for DVD, not even blu fanboys.

There are quite a few fanboys on UD who are predicting the death of dvd, even rooting for it, and hijacking threads for it. Is the adoption rate far bigger than than of dvd in its fourth year? I don't know that. Most people I know don't have BluRay. And if I'm not mistaken, dvd's still sell way more than bluray discs. Even Disney doesn't seem to believe in it, when they don't release classics like Dumbo on the new format.

You can say the McDonald's Salad is just a marketing ploy. You can say Video Games are a marketing ploy. TV might've been a marketing ploy at some time. I know Big Screens were at first. In a world of almost nothing but marketing, you can find ploys in anything.

Wow. That's a really old, drawn-out argument. Yes, everything needs to be sold and marketed, duh. You know perfectly well what I meant. No need to play wordgames.

but if you were to watch the same on a bigger tv, the connection would be horrible. watching the dvd on your laptop, you might see an actual quality difference.

How would the 'connection' be horrible? What does that even mean? I was talking about picture and sound quality, and it was great.

What I don't get, is this NEED of BluRay-adopters to convert everybody to BluRay, starting the same argument time after time. Why do we all HAVE to have BluRay? Why can't it be good enough that you got it, and enjoy it?

[yamiiguy]

Soon enough new titles will no longer be released on DVD. Blu-Ray is the successor to DVD. That is fact.

[ajmrowland]

What I am saying is, there are many dvds in my collection that I might never feel a need to upgrade, and a few that i'll wait for the inevitable massive price drop. I'm smart. I know there are a ton of movies ill never rebuy, because they're just not worth it. Also, DVD WAS the best quality, but the standards changed when the public really started getting larger tv sets.

and most new blus are still becoming cheaper and more valuable in content than their dvd counterparts. I was able to get Big Fish brand-new in an Amazon sale in september(about $10), and had a little extra money to spend on a used copy of Enchanted. Since Im a teen without a lot of money, what's so wrong about that?

Once again, you "blu-bashers/dvd-defenders" are completely missing the logic. It's all about preference. I dont even know where the so-called "dvd-bashing" is on the last page.

*goes to look*

Edit: something about anti-blu ppl feeling betrayed. That's analyzing a behavior, not necessarily bashing.

Goliath mentioning how he'd burn the blu-ray if he were forced to purchase it. That's sort of bashing pro-blu ppl, but not outright.

Nothing about anti-DVDism. Nothing that says or even indicates any "hatred" for DVD.

[BK]

Who cares?

If you like it then keep it, if you want to upgrade, upgrade.

Nothing will change the fact the studios will continue to try and get you to buy the same thing. Saying that, the quality of BR is definitely much better, you cannot argue otherwise. However, either than 3D which is bullshit, there doesn't seem to be any other way Hollywood can possibly increase the quality of BR quality.

DVD always had its flaws but they were acceptable, I buy DVDs, in fact, I just started this year, because I can finally get cheap, not pirated ones. BR, being that they are advertising the quality difference, and as we all can see the clarity, how the hell are they going to top that? Sure, maybe make it even clearer, but there's no longer any point. DVDs, in that sense, won't ever go away because the majority of titles won't ever see the light of day on BR and those that are on BR can no longer be upgraded simply because there is NOTHING to upgrade to.

3D is NOT an upgrade. Every movie has not been made in 3D save Avatar and CGI animation so 3D re-releases are bullshit. THAT is an obvious cash grab because it doesn't enhance the viewing experience or should I say since it wasn't meant to be seen that way conversion is basically a cash grab. Maybe one day they might perfect 3D releases but will it work for everything? Dramas? Thrillers? Rom-coms? Video quality affects everything obviously and since it has reached pseudo-optimal that's it.

The studios can continue dishing out cash-grab 3D, Internet downloads, whatever but it doesn't change the fact that the video/audio quality may be at it's optimum level and both DVD and BR will not be replaced and are certainly not cash-grabs. Of course, have some common sense too, if you read a review saying the release is bad, the studio will re-release it, not necessarily a cash grab since they've LOST money re-authoring it the first time wrongly. However if it's just adding trinkets and holographic cards or whatever then I mean, it's your personal choice if you're gonna buy it. No one's forcing you, it's just there.