Disney War Propaganda Debate

[The_Iceflash]

<center>What is your feeling toward them? I happened to be watching "All Together" on YouTube and I decided to read the comments and I was shocked at the arrogance and ignorance of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiRfFGIBb9c

Tell me what you think about the comments and what your thoughts are of Disney creating war propaganda cartoons for World War II/generally speaking. Feel free to add to the video comments. </center>

[The_Iceflash]

No one wants to go there?

[Will Barks]

I think "Victory Through Air Power" is really a piece of shit of propaganda. The message of this film is: bomb Germany back to stone age (together with all those innocent civilians!!!). Then combining this message with my favourite art form, the animated film, was disgusting.

[2099net]

I think "Victory Through Air Power" is really a piece of shit of propaganda. The message of this film is: bomb Germany back to stone age (together with all those innocent civilians!!!). Then combining this message with my favourite art form, the animated film, was disgusting.

You know, you may want to read about the bombing the Germans did on Europe, especially Britain and see if that changes your mind. Especially look up the Nazi attitude and intent of their bombing of Coventry - even the code name they gave the operation speaks volumes.

I can remember when I was younger, my grandmother telling me about how ashamed she felt of British bombers bombing Germany. She ended up crying and I remember it vividly still to this day because its an unusual and disturbing thing for a young-ish child to see - their grandparent crying with sadness. While she never lived in London or Coventry my Grandfather did work at the Rolls Royce factory in Derby which was the target of German bombers, and Derby in general did get a few odd bombs on residential areas - so my grandmother was most certainly most aware of what was happening to Britain - and yet she was still against the bombing of Dresden etc.

Until recently, her words and shame influenced my own opinion. However, I've recently watched a large number of WWII documentaries on both DVD and on TV (there was a documentary on the bombing of Coventry on the BBC quite recently) and I'm afraid my opinion has changed - dramatically.

I still remember my grandmother's tears, but I don't feel any shame. Both sides were put through hell in the War - nobody or no allegiance got off lightly and everyone experienced suffering, pain and loss. But once the War came to the civilians, you can't have a moral high-ground - it was a battle for sheer survival and its amazing how close Britain came to not being able to even support itself and collapsing under its own weight in those long months were it stood virtually alone against the Nazi threat.

The bombing of Germany may not have been morally right, but it most certainly was justifiable. Sometimes, the best form of defence is offence. Its all about the context of the threat, and how clearly defined it is (Just as I support the action taken in Afganistan, but I have never supported any of the actions in Iraq.) You can't get more clearly defined than

In one night, more than 4,000 homes in Coventry were destroyed, along with around three quarters of the city's factories. There was barely an undamaged building left in the city centre. Two hospitals, two churches and a police station were also among the damaged buildings.[4] Approximately 600 people were killed (the precise death toll has never been established) and more than 1,000 were injured.[5]

To me, Victory Through Airpower, coming approx 3-4 years after the start of the London Blitz and other bombings is totally justified.

---

I'm aware that this forum has a lot of members who are American, British, German, European, Jewish and Gay. All of which have their own identity and history shaped by World War II. I genuinely do not want to offend anyone and apologise if I have, but it will be hard to discuss war propaganda without doing so.

[Wonderlicious]

I do have to say that some of the films are a bit uneasy to watch, and they do require context. The more commercial shorts (aka Private Pluto and the like) are the best and I guess that they would have been the more watchable ones then. The shorts promoting little bits of war effort (aka handing over bacon fat) aren't too bad either, although they obviously don't work well today.

I have to say that I don't like Victory Through Air Power's message either (mainly, as Will Barks has alluded to, because aerial bombing destroys innocent civilians and pleasant architecture), though given the desperate nature of the time, it's message is understandable. I don't think that it should have been given a general release, however, as it links in with my general fears of propaganda; I don't agree with it, as I feel that it toys with people's emotions. And when it often seems that the majority of people need somebody else (read: the government, a parent, a teacher, the press) to really make up their minds, it's scarier than any horror film.

[PatrickvD]

I think we should look at the context here. Back then, Disney was a small animation studio who distributed its animation through RKO... which wasn't even among the biggest studios in Hollywood. Disney did what it had to do, all the majors were doing propaganda, because that's what the government was asking for. When the US came across Nazi propaganda they realized they had to make propaganda as well to motivate the troops. Lots of big Hollywood directors became involved. Disney even provided animated maps for these films. It was just the way things worked. After all, all is fair in war.

And throughout all of this, Disney was not some type of media empire producing children's entertainment. They were just a small Hollywood studio doing their part. There's a bigger picture here.

As for the content of some these animated shorts/films... to me they're rather tame compared to what animators from Warner Bros were making. The "Private Snafu" films for example were made in direct order of the pentagon. And they are hilariously over the top:

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[Rudy Matt]

Victory Through Air Power is wonderful.

[Elladorine]

Having several uncles serving in WWII with my grandmother having no idea if any of her sons would be returning home safely (my dad was too young to be drafted and only served in the army during peace time), I heard a lot about my father's point of view on the war growing up. And the fact that I grew up in a town that built LST's (coupled with my incessant interest in animation) I always found the animated war propaganda films extremely fascinating yet somewhat creepy.

They were often racist, more "adult" than the other cartoons of their day, yet so much a product of their time. I guess that's what I find most interesting about them, that it's a window to how times were back then. I guess I should point out that I've always enjoyed old, controversial cartoons in general, including those that have been banned for general release today. My first glimpse of these in particular was actually an old special about Disney Oscars in the mid-80's hosted by Tony Danza.

Anyway, On the Front Lines was probably one the most exciting releases I've ever picked up, along with a bad bootleg of the non-Disney Snafu cartoons. Fascinating stuff.

[jpanimation]

We watched these Freshman year in American History class. Our teacher warned us that these were politically incorrect but then stated that it was a good thing because we now have the opportunity to learn from them. He put each short in context and after viewing them we had worksheets to fill out. I was in heaven as I never thought I could get Disney animation for an assignment.

[Rudy Matt]

I don't know why your teacher had to "warn" you. Sounds like the teacher was trying to set you up and indoctrinate you on how to view the material.

[Super Aurora]

I don't know why your teacher had to "warn" you. Sounds like the teacher was trying to set you up and indoctrinate you on how to view the material.

umm more like so someone in the audience watching it won't go in an offended mode and start blabbering how it being politically incorrect blah blah blah. What you think why some tv shows have warning signs before the start of the show?

I agree that it's stupid to get offend over petty crap like these, but the teacher said good warning so some kids' parent won't go sueing his ass.


As for my fav short, i like Little Han Goes to War. It works like a great propaganda and explore into the psychological education the Nazi implicate into the german children's heads ala brainwashing.

[The_Iceflash]

I agree that it's stupid to get offend over petty crap like these, but the teacher said good warning so some kids' parent won't go sueing his ass.

I think that's exactly why they said it. In today's PC world I can see something like that happening and being on the news.

[Super Aurora]

I agree that it's stupid to get offend over petty crap like these, but the teacher said good warning so some kids' parent won't go sueing his ass.

I think that's exactly why they said it. In today's PC world I can see something like that happening and being on the news.

Exactly.

[BelleGirl]

I've watched the entire On the frontline Disney treasure dvd and I especially liked Der Fuhrers face with Donald Duck and Education for death both good pieces of anti-nazi propaganda. The latter one is really a grim story about how a innocent German boy is trained to become a soldier for the Nazi's to walk to a certain death. "Chicken Little" is also very effective. (of course I'm NOT referring to that more recent CGI effort from Disney).

[The_Iceflash]

I find it astounding that those who commented similar opinions as yours on YouTube are getting thumbs down! Some are getting -11! (Check the link above)

[Goliath]

Since 'On the frontlines' isn't available in my country, I had to watch these cartoons on YouTube. And I'm extremely grateful I could watch them there. Do we even stop and think how incredible it is that we can watch rare, classic material for free on YouTube?! I mean, if you think about it, it is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted.

The channel that has a lot of the War-time cartoons is: Walt Disney Kanal:
http://www.youtube.com/user/WaltDisneyKanal

Of the WWII-cartoons, I thought 'How to be a sailor' was the best, although it was also one of the most subtle, since it's only at the end that you realize it's a propaganda cartoon:

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@ TheIceflash: stupid people are everywhere, especially on the internet.

[Heil Donald Duck]

Disney's Wartime propaganda is lovelly, just for the fact its brake today people ideas about Disney as family only orientation company.

[Will Barks]

I think "Victory Through Air Power" is really a piece of shit of propaganda. The message of this film is: bomb Germany back to stone age (together with all those innocent civilians!!!). Then combining this message with my favourite art form, the animated film, was disgusting.

You know, you may want to read about the bombing the Germans did on Europe, especially Britain and see if that changes your mind. Especially look up the Nazi attitude and intent of their bombing of Coventry - even the code name they gave the operation speaks volumes.

I really don't want to defend Nazis (I detest right wing extremists). But growing up in Austria (which was part of the German Reich then) I actually saw the destruction of historic city parts (e.g. in Vienna). The house I live in is a beautiful "Gründerzeit" building from 1899, nearly destroyed during allied bombing. Other similar houses in my neighborhood weren't that fortunate. There was a monastry homing parentless girls not a mile from where I'm living now. They all died under the debris of a bombed medieval tower. And why? Because the allied followed the strategy to bomb civillian areas just to make the people protest against the Nazi regime, what never happend (sadly). Hence, all those innocent people died for nothing!

So I hope it's intelligible calling a movie with the intent to incite bombing a piece of shit. War is never justified!

[Margos]

I did very much enjoy "Victory Through Air Power" as a historical film. But I didn't agree with the whole bombing thing either.

Will Barks is absolutely right. If you sign up to be in the military, then you choose to possibly die. Civilians never had that choice, and killing them is one of the most disgusting war crimes of all. And think of Hiroshima and Nagasaki! Never. Again.

[Goliath]

As much as I'm opposed to war, I have to disagree with Will Barks. Yes, it is extremely sad that many civilians got to die, but this stands in no comparison to the organized, calculated, systematic murder of over 6,000,000 innocent civilians by the nazi's in their death camps.

Add to this the other thousands of people who died through the bombing of European cities that the nazi's carried out (including the Dutch city of Rotterdam), and you can probably see why bombing Germany was necessary.

The only thing I object to, is the bombing of civilian targets that took place after 1943 (thus after Disney's film came out), because at that point, the nazi's were already losing the war and there was no way they would fight their way back, and the 'experts' knew it.