Alice in Wonderland (Live-Action)

[princesspeach]

I think the whole brother sister comment is to be taken with a grain of salt.

spoilers

I think they start off as friends, grow to be protective of each other like a bro and sis, then, on the "Alice on the balcony scene with the White Queen", Alice realizes something. She realizes maybe her feelings are growing and the hatter means more to her than she thought. When it's time to say goodbye to wonderland, they seal their relationship with a goodbye kiss.

I think it will be like that. She is dealing with adult issues now. Alice being a grown woman who is about to be married and all. I think she will eventually see hatter in a different light. just my opinion.

[Margos]

That's a pretty good point, princesspeach. Relationships can always grow and change, and even if they start off like a brother and sister, it may not always be that way....

[JDCB1986]

I'm sort of bummed that Burton decided to use the 3D in such a gimmicky way --things constantly flying at the screen. It might be cool for the 3 months it's in theatres, but beyond that and until 3D is commonplace in home theatres, it will be "oh look, that's supposed to look like it's flying at you, but doesn't" over and over again.

[Disneykid]

Well, all of the flying objects didn't bother me when watching the latest trailer in 2-D, so they probably won't be a concern in context, either. I think the story and characters will help distract from the gimmicky elements unlike, say, Journey to the Center of the Earth which doesn't have enough substance to withstand a 2-D viewing.

[Siren]

I wonder if their relationship will develop like the one between Lizzie and Fred and Drop Dead Fred. When Lizzie's a child, its a brother/sister friendship, as an adult they grow to love eachother in a different dynamic, which is both romantic and slightly creepy...knowing this "grown man" is suddenly saying "kiss me".

[Disney Duster]

Yea, none of these flying things are bothering me in 2-D! Even though they don't come out of the screen, things flying at you evokes a world that's hazardous and thrilling. When Monstro came at people straight on in one shot in Pinocchio that was still impressively scary.

Disneykid, my friend got Lewis Carroll's collected works as a Christmas gift. Are any of the locations in the poem about the Jabberwocky in Looking Glass Land or Wonderland? Like Tulgey Wood or the TumTum tree? Is there even a known name for the land through the looking glass?

But the illustrations suggested that the Mad Hatter and the White Rabbit are the Red King's messengers. Lewis Carol wrote that the one messenger was called Hatta (like Hatter!) and he was drinking tea when he was arrested. So, do you think Lewsi Carol intended him and the White Rabbit to be in Looking Glass Land connected to Wonderland, as the Red Royalty's Messengers?

Margos, did you know that Ward Kimball actually tried to intently make the Reluctant Dragon 'as gay as possible" without getting in trouble? But what happened with him on House of Mouse? And I can't find the Cock Robin cartoon anywhere...a gay character in Cock Robin, who knew?

[Margos]

Margos, did you know that Ward Kimball actually tried to intently make the Reluctant Dragon 'as gay as possible" without getting in trouble? But what happened with him on House of Mouse? And I can't find the Cock Robin cartoon anywhere...a gay character in Cock Robin, who knew?

No, I'd never heard that! Well, that's the proof then. Now, I never really watched much "House of Mouse," so I can't tell you whether this is true or not. But I had heard that, on one episode, they had a Ladies Night, and the Reluctant Dragon was the only male character in attendence, therefore probably being gay.

And I saw "Who Killed Cock Robin?" on YouTube... I guess they took it down, it's a shame, because it's a good short. But the character of Cupid, who appears at the end, was made to be a very obvious gay sterotype.

[Disney Duster]

Just to clear it, I believe that everyone, even Walt, knew that Ward was making his character gay, and some film censoring team told them to pair it down before, or were worried about it, or grumpy they couldn't do anything about it. But Disney knew, Ward didn't keep it a secret, they probably even discussed how gay the dragon should be.

That Ladies Night thing sounds really more offensive than letting a gay character be gay. In fact, that ladies night thing only continues the suggestion he's gay from before. A real indication he would be gay would be if he did anything romantic, verbally or in action, with a male. Even some ladies saying someone was cute and him saying "yea, he is cute". I could understand that ladies night joke being either something simply funny because it remarks on his femininity or really offensive saying gay guys should be women or any feminine guy should be a woman.

Though when I was younger my family let me go to the girl's only tea parties...I think they knew I was gay from a very young age before I knew...but I don't consider myself feminine, I just like pretty things, and shiny things, and curvy swirly things, and sweet things...

I found Cock Robin on Youtube! It was pretty good, and actually funny, especially with Robin's death, actually! But yea, Cupid was sooooo gay I was surprised. Also, Jenny Wren seemed so sexual with what she was doing with Cock Robin behind that umbrella, I couldn't believe that was in either!

[Margos]

Really, I don't think it would be saying anything offensive, Disney Duster. I've known of gay men hanging out with their female friends at events or in places that men usually don't or can't go. It's acceptable, and I think that's why he was there. And as a nod to a more obscure character.

But yeah, Jenny Wren was actually meant to be a characture of Mae West, I believe.

[princesspeach]

I wonder if their relationship will develop like the one between Lizzie and Fred and Drop Dead Fred. When Lizzie's a child, its a brother/sister friendship, as an adult they grow to love eachother in a different dynamic, which is both romantic and slightly creepy...knowing this "grown man" is suddenly saying "kiss me".

This is a good point. I loved that movie and the ending kiss. I think it is very similar in terms of plot. Both Alice and Lizzy reuniting with their childhood "friends". Both are now grown women who deal with adult issues now. And both possibly view these men in different lights now that they are older. I think the Alice Hatter romance will be very subtle. maybe even open to interpretation. I hope there is at least one little kiss for my inner romantic.

[Disney Duster]

Well that makes me feel better, but it's still not a very good indication of him actually being gay unless one of the princes or donald or his nephews strip at the club and you see the dragon cheer...

[Margos]

Well that makes me feel better, but it's still not a very good indication of him actually being gay unless one of the princes or donald or his nephews strip at the club and you see the dragon cheer...

I agree. But like I said, it's likely more of a "nod" than any sort of big, important "outing."

But that mental image of Donald and his nephews stripping will haunt my sleep, and not in a good way!

[blackcauldron85]

First official movie still of the Mad Hatter:
http://www.facebook.com/AliceInWonderla ... 6787126667
(via laughingplace.com)

'Alice In Wonderland' Welcomes All Time Low To Its Soundtrack
http://newsroom.mtv.com/2009/12/21/alic ... -time-low/

Mark Hoppus And Pete Wentz Team Up For 'Alice In Wonderland' Song
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/162914 ... _boy.jhtml

[Disneykid]

Hmmm...I'm not too thrilled about modern music like this being on the film's soundtrack. I'm hoping these don't show up in the end credits as it might kind of kill the mood after the film's over. I'm also hoping that Disney releases two separate Alice albums: Danny Elfman's film score on one, and songs inspired by the film on the other. Mingling the two feels odd to me, and not in a Wonderland way.

Disney Duster, none of the areas in the Jabberwocky poem exist outside of it. Disney did make Tulgey Wood a locale in their film, though, where they basically had free reign to create random, crazy creatures. Jabberwocky's become one of the more famous things out of the Alice books, but its role is very self-contained and insubstantial.

Although you just made me realize something. In Burton's film, there's a prominent tree near the little door when Alice enters Wonderland. This is actually the Tree of the Dead from Burton's Sleepy Hollow, but I wonder if the characters here will refer to it as the TumTum tree. Hmmm...The forest could also be called Tulgey Wood here, too. The first draft of the screenplay doesn't really assign names to any of the locales (though, ironically, it comes up with names for the countries surrounding Wonderland, for whatever reason).

As for Looking Glass, the world Alice steps into is never actually named, but people unofficially refer to it as Looking Glass Land. I don't know if it's because the 1985 CBS miniseries called it that, or if it was a common name before that. I guess you could say Looking Glass Land is basically Alice's real world, only with everything reversed and backwards.

As for Hatta and Haigha, you're right on the money about the Mad Hatter connection, but Haigha is actually the March Hare (try saying "hare" with a strong British accent. That's you pronounce "Haigha.") I'm positive the connection is intentional since Carroll was extremely anal in how Tenniel portrayed his characters (so much so that Tenniel almost said no to illustrating Looking Glass; doing Wonderland was stifling for him). Why the connection exists is open to interpreation, and this is one of the few things about the books I honestly don't have an opinion about. It's a very random "blink and you miss it" sort of thing.

[blackcauldron85]

Disney's cool Alice promo book within a book within a ...
http://scifiwire.com/2010/01/disneys-co ... -promo.php
(via laughingplace.com)

*edit*

It's short, but it explains a little about Alice & the Hatter's relationship, and it has some short clips that at least I hadn't seen yet (that I remembered):

Movie Surfers Go Behind the Scenes of “Alice in Wonderland”
http://www.disneysociety.com/2010/01/07 ... onderland/
(via Disney Society's Twitter)

[ajmrowland]

Where can I find that book? It looks Awesome!

[MadasaHatter]

New Outdoor Artwork!

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=62133

Alice Action figure:

http://www.entertainmentearth.com/prodi ... r=DC098255

Mad Hatter Action figure:

http://www.entertainmentearth.com/prodi ... r=DC098256

[Disney Duster]

Thanks Disneykid! All that info and connections, I'm actually quite glad the first illustrations were close to what the author wanted. I always want to know what the author's imagined and intended...

That Alice Press Kit was really cool...but all stuff we've seen before in the images and trailer. Some of that stuff was even old concepts not used (like Alice's look)! Though even Walt Disney used to send out un-final designs to the press I think.

[Disneykid]

The tracklisting for the "Inspired by..." album (titled Almost Alice) is on MySpace. I'm glad to see Disney's doing separate releases for this collection and the actual film score. I don't follow most of the bands on here, so I'll probably just download these while buying the the Danny Elfman score.

[blackcauldron85]

Urban Decay Alice in Wonderland Book of Shadows makeup
http://www.urbandecay.com/promo/contest/Alice/
(via laughingplace.com)