Tangled! (The Artist Formerly Known As Rapunzel)

[Margos]

Sure, that's what great about reading the story for yourself: YOU picture it the way YOU want to picture it. That's great, and I love it, too! But when you see a movie, it's someone else's vision. It's not what you saw. Hell, it sure isn't what the author saw! But it's an art form in its own right, and you can't tell someone else how to create their art form. Most fairy tales, Rapunzel included, simply don't have enough substance to create a feature length film, and if it was stretched out without alterations, it would be exceedingly dull. It wouldn't work, plain and simple, and artistic lisence, not loyalty to source material, is what has made the Disney studio what it is today and what it will continue to be.

[Escapay]

I'm not condemning the whole film, just something that we do know about it so far.

There's an episode of "Star Trek" in which Kirk and the Enterprise are sent to a mining colony. A monster is destroying their machines and killing people, and Kirk has to rescue them, as well as either discover why the monster is killing people or just kill the monster outright. The miners would prefer if the monster is killed outright as it's been disrupting their mining. Based on the evidence from how others have died as well as one survivor's testimony, Kirk and Spock deduce that the "monster" is a silicon-based lifeform, which is why normal phasers weren't working when miners shot at it.

Kirk and Spock modify their phasers to attack the monster, and while it's injured, Spock mindmelds with the monster in order to learn more, and learns it is a Horta. More importantly, the Horta was attacking the humans because in their mining and searching for minerals, they've been clearing away and destroying thousands of silicon nodules. The miners thought they were useless rocks in the way, but they were actually the Horta's eggs. Realizing their grave mistake, Kirk gets McCoy to come down and tend to the Horta, and Spock then negotiates between the miners and the Horta to work together to find minerals in the mines.

"The Horta is intelligent, peaceful... mild. She had no objections to sharing this planet with you – until you broke into her nursery and started destroying her children. When you did, she reacted the only way she knew how; as any mother would, when her children are in danger."
-Kirk, to the miners

In essence, the miners were condemning the Horta based only on what they knew about it "so far". It wasn't until they knew more about the creature that they realized their assumptions of what it is were wrong.

albert

[robster16]

I agree that your worries seem a little premature, but I don't think they're completely unfounded. Considering Rapunzel (the movie)'s background, one can't help but wonder how far this'll end up straying from the source. Though Unbraided was scrapped, I'm sure traces of it remain. And, honestly, this film does seem sort of like an Aladdin to me in ways, with a bandit-hero and a princess locked away from real life in a tower (Jasmine and Aurora are the only ones who really kind of have that going on to me).

However, I do think the film will retain some level of seriousness, if Mother Gothel is any indication. I don't really mind the story being changed personally, because I always found it one of the most boring tales. I mean, what is the story really famous for? A girl with a lot of hair. Noone remembers anything else about it, usually.

Rapunzel becoming a natural-born princess seems like an unnecessary change though. They could've just had the witch treat her like a princess in the tower. Or maybe they're taking a thought from Sleeping Beauty and have the prince hear about a "princess in a tower with a lot of hair" that he can go seek in the wood. Although I guess having to go through the trouble of explaining "the poor mother was hungry, her husband stole from the witch's garden, and the witch took the baby" might be something they felt pointless to the rest of the story, thus making her a princess probably appealed to them over having to give a bunch of irrelevant backstory. Of course, they could've done something similar to B&tB's opening (not saying they should copy and do stain-glass windows, too, but give a similar bg info. scene).

The prince-bandit thing, however, feels a little random. And I'm worried this might turn into a trend for their guys following Naveen (who was a spoiled philanderer with little morality/responsibility, too). Sort of like how Ariel, Belle and Jasmine all have that similar kind of "Just because I'm a gir

think you can push me around!" thing going on.

The thing is I think I read somewhere that Disney's Rapunzel is now a mix between the traditional fairytale and a estonian folktale. The premise being that baby's are switched. Then the story would be something like this:

A king uses resources or help from a witch, but in return she demands that she will get the king's firstborn child. The King is desperate and agrees. But after his son/prince is born he can't bear to hand over his only child to the witch and persuades a peasant family to switch their newlyborn daughter with his son with a promise that the king will track down the witch and switch back the children. So the witch takes Rapunzel, thinking she is the daughter of the king, a princess and the real prince is raised by a peasant family. The boy eventually figures out what happened and when he is old enough he goes out into the world to correct the mistake, free the girl and give her her life back.

So in that version the witch THINKS Rapunzel is a princess and the bandit actually turns out to be the prince! Makes sense and leaves a lot of room for some great twists and turns plotwise. The witch could figure out the mix-up and want revenge on the king and the prince, Rapunzel reconnects with long lost parents, the bandit has to change his ways and become the prince he is destined to be...

I'm not sure if this is 100% true or if this story has changed in the meantime, but I really like this incarnation a LOT!

A lot better then when two modern day people magically get transported to fairytale land, turned into a squirrel and a bassett hound and have to assist Rapunzel and the prince in finding love while figuring out their own troubled lovelife... which was the premise for Rapunzel Unbraided

[Super Aurora]

I'm not condemning the whole film, just something that we do know about it so far.

There's an episode of "Star Trek" in which Kirk and the Enterprise are sent to a mining colony. A monster is destroying their machines and killing people, and Kirk has to rescue them, as well as either discover why the monster is killing people or just kill the monster outright. The miners would prefer if the monster is killed outright as it's been disrupting their mining. Based on the evidence from how others have died as well as one survivor's testimony, Kirk and Spock deduce that the "monster" is a silicon-based lifeform, which is why normal phasers weren't working when miners shot at it.

Kirk and Spock modify their phasers to attack the monster, and while it's injured, Spock mindmelds with the monster in order to learn more, and learns it is a Horta. More importantly, the Horta was attacking the humans because in their mining and searching for minerals, they've been clearing away and destroying thousands of silicon nodules. The miners thought they were useless rocks in the way, but they were actually the Horta's eggs. Realizing their grave mistake, Kirk gets McCoy to come down and tend to the Horta, and Spock then negotiates between the miners and the Horta to work together to find minerals in the mines.

"The Horta is intelligent, peaceful... mild. She had no objections to sharing this planet with you – until you broke into her nursery and started destroying her children. When you did, she reacted the only way she knew how; as any mother would, when her children are in danger."
-Kirk, to the miners

In essence, the miners were condemning the Horta based only on what they knew about it "so far". It wasn't until they knew more about the creature that they realized their assumptions of what it is were wrong.

albert

You think a Star Trek analogy really is going to get through Duster's "Fantasy La-La Land"?

[Someday...]

Disney have made major story changes before with several of the classics, Snow White, Cinderella, the Little Mermaid and Sleeping Beauty come to mind.
I'll judge the story when we know a little more about it, or even better- when I see it.

[Super Aurora]

Disney have made major story changes before with several of the classics, Snow White, Cinderella, the Little Mermaid and Sleeping Beauty come to mind.

But Disney Duster can't grasp that concept

[Escapay]

You think a Star Trek analogy really is going to get through Duster's "Fantasy La-La Land"?

I like to amuse myself and post them anyway.

albert

[Disney Duster]

There is joking I'm not getting things, yet I contend people aren't getting me (or reading very carefully?).

Escapay, Hello you who I haven't seen in a while, by the way... ! I'm here for the holidays as long as school's off. I like the Santa in your avatar...but not the Blingee logo. You sold out, man! At least Gromit's still there...! Oh, and I can still condemn the film for something I know: it has indeed drastically changed from it's original source more than any other Disney version of a fairy tale has. Hey, it's true, so I can truly have a problem with it.

Margos, I will never think that fairy tales, in their original literature, do not have enough "substance" for a full-length feature, though maybe by substance you mean events or plot turns or something. But anyway, all I am saying is that the changes they have made are quite major and I'm sure there would be a way to lengthen the story while keeping the characters as, well, the original characters...

robster, is that estonian folktale a different version of Rapunzel, or a whole new tale, with a different named princess and everything? Because if it is, that isn't the same as Aschenputtel and Cendrillon (two different versions of Cinderella). That's mixing and matching two different tales, which means it's not Rapunzel, and in other words, not good! Also, it still changes the fact Rapunzel originally got her name by her peasant parents stealing Rapunzel lettuce from the witch...that's such a big thing how can they change that!?

Someday, you may not have read what I said before, about how it is that this time Disney has made the most drastic changes to their version of a story to major things like who the characters are and how they came to be!

I am not denying this could be a great, great film! But I think it could still be a great film keeping Rapunzel as, well, Rapunzel...

[Escapay]

Escapay, Hello you who I haven't seen in a while, by the way... ! I'm here for the holidays as long as shcool's off. I like the Santa in your avatar...but not the Blingee logo. You sold out, man! At least Gromit's still there...!

You can blame enigmawing for the Blingee logo. If she hadn't made her own Blingee avatar, I never would have bling'd up Gromit! I don't know how to get rid of the logo, I would if I could.

Oh, and I can still condemn the film for something I know: it has indeed drastically changed from it's original source more than any other Disney version of a fairy tale has. Hey, it's true, so I can truly have a problem with it.

But you missed the whole point of my analogy.

You're condemning the entire film based only on what little has been revealed. Just like the miners were condemning the Horta to death based on what little they knew.

albert

[Disney Duster]

...

Now it seems I have very good proof people don't read me carefully, or perhaps don't understand me.

I very clearly said that film could be great, but it could be great while still being faithful as well, which would make it greater still (at least for me and others who want faithfulness and tradition).

Anyway, you know how people review films, and they love the film, but still point out flaws? Well, consider me pointing this thing out I don't like in a film that could be great!

I do admit I did say the film will not be very traditional with these changes, but that is actually true. It may yet be traditional in many other ways, but now the film as a whole will not be as traditional as previous Disney fairy tales. Not bad, just not as traditional.

[Escapay]

I very clearly said that film could be great, but it could be great while still being faithful as well, which would make it greater still (at least for me and others who want faithfulness and tradition).

But you don't know that yet, and neither would others who want "faithfulness and tradition". You haven't seen the film. Nobody has except those who are working on it, and they still haven't seen it in its entirety.

You're basing your current opinion of the film only on what has been revealed about the movie. Regardless if you're condemning the whole movie (which was an error in my assumption) or only a part of it, nobody's opinion about the movie is really worth a hill of beans until it's out for people to actually see. It has no merit until they know more about what they're talking about, and to do that they have to see the whole movie, not just know a few sentences about the story/character changes.

albert

[Dragonlion]

The thing is I think I read somewhere that Disney's Rapunzel is now a mix between the traditional fairytale and a estonian folktale. The premise being that baby's are switched. Then the story would be something like this:

A king uses resources or help from a witch, but in return she demands that she will get the king's firstborn child. The King is desperate and agrees. But after his son/prince is born he can't bear to hand over his only child to the witch and persuades a peasant family to switch their newlyborn daughter with his son with a promise that the king will track down the witch and switch back the children. So the witch takes Rapunzel, thinking she is the daughter of the king, a princess and the real prince is raised by a peasant family. The boy eventually figures out what happened and when he is old enough he goes out into the world to correct the mistake, free the girl and give her her life back.

So in that version the witch THINKS Rapunzel is a princess and the bandit actually turns out to be the prince! Makes sense and leaves a lot of room for some great twists and turns plotwise. The witch could figure out the mix-up and want revenge on the king and the prince, Rapunzel reconnects with long lost parents, the bandit has to change his ways and become the prince he is destined to be...

I'm not sure if this is 100% true or if this story has changed in the meantime, but I really like this incarnation a LOT!

That sounds really cool! I hope that's the story. By the way, robster16, how did you find that out?

[Disney Duster]

Saying that changes from tradition aren't traditional is opinion?!

[Escapay]

Saying that changes from tradition aren't traditional is opinion?!

Condemning the changes and saying the film could be better if it were more traditional is.

albert

[SpringHeelJack]

Let's all list abstract things we want to be in the movie. I'll start...

Truthiness.

[Escapay]

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albert

[Disney Duster]

Please stop making fun of me, my friends, who I like. Actually, friend love, on the internet.

First off, it is okay for me to condemn the changes themselves (as long as those changes prove to be true). Even if they aren't true, I can talk about how I feel about them here in this discussion forum.

As I already specified, the film would indeed be better to me if it were more faithful, it would make me enjoy the film more, it is true. And the film will indeed be more traditional if it is...well, more traditional.

[Babaloo]

I understand Disney Duster. I don't know why everyone is going against you. I personally don't agree with condemning the movie this early, but it's your personal opinion and I have no idea why everyone is attacking you! And you did say yourself that you're not saying it will be a bad movie, just you would rather it be more traditional.

In my opinion, I like the change in characters. It allows Rapunzel to be a princess who's not waiting for something to happen. By making the prince a bandit, it allows Rapunzel to become a more active and strong princess. And by being a bandit, it might make for a better character transformation. So although I don't agree with you, I'm not going to get mad at you (evil stare at everyone else)!

[Marky_198]

I understand Disney Duster. I don't know why everyone is going against you.

I agree with Disney Duster too.

At first they presented this film as a "traditional classic fairytale".
The most beautiful thing, like the old storybooks, like old paintings.
The last of the original fairytales that would be turned into a traditional classic.

As time goes by, it seems that everything of that idea is disappearing, bit by bit.....
But some people on here don't seem to care that much.

I also don't understand why people are going against him, because first of all, he should be able to have his own opinion, and second, I think he is right.

There might be people who don't care about leaving all this ideas behind, but I do, and I think it's a pity.
And I'm allowed to have my opinion too.

[Super Aurora]

That sounds really cool! I hope that's the story. By the way, robster16, how did you find that out?

robster16 is just that awesome. He like the spy that sniff into Disney's fortress and grab valuable information. Hell, he could pretty inform us if Walt really is dead or alive.

Let's all list abstract things we want to be in the movie. I'll start...

Truthiness.

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Connectitude

Transformatation

albert

Teh MaGicK!!!

emotional Heart

Preeeetttiness

Rainbows

sparkles

Please stop making fun of me,

But it's fun!

I understand Disney Duster. I don't know why everyone is going against you.

No one is mad at him. It's just that Duster says things that make us go or