Pocahontas Special Edition Discussion

rs_milo_whatever · Post by **rs_milo_whatever** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:21 pm

They have a special way to get points for movies released before the movie rewards project was launched; I don't remember exactly but you do have to
prove that you bought those DVDs in the last couple of months. You'll see when you check the site.

blackcauldron85 · Post by **blackcauldron85** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:42 am

I watched Pocahontas last night. It's one of the Disney films that I watch most often, but it made me wonder something during the "If I Never Knew You" scene (which I love, btw): The whole flashback sequence- was that always supposed to be in that scene, or was that only added once they got ready for the Special Edition? I don't mind the flashback sequence, and maybe it's better to have that then just staring and John & Pocahontas singing the whole time, I don't know. But I was just wondering if that was the way it was always planned to be.

singerguy04 · Post by **singerguy04** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:34 am

That's something I've wondered since I've seen it too. I've always loved that song (ever since I first heard it on the soundtrack). I'm not sure if it's exactly what they planned, but i'm sure the end product represents what they intended. With a song like that, it's kinda hard to imagine what else would be going on.

goofystitch · Post by **goofystitch** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:40 am

I'm assuming that the montage was always meant to be there. Without it, the staging is much to boring and it's not like they could have done much else with John Smith strapped to a pole.

stewie15 · Post by **stewie15** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:09 pm

it's not like they could have done much else with John Smith strapped to a pole.

Oh I could think of a few things

SpringHeelJack · Post by **SpringHeelJack** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:37 pm

Aren't there pencil tests of the song that they used when they broadcasted "Pocahontas" on ABC for the the first time? Wouldn't they show what the deal was?

Cordy_Biddle · Post by **Cordy_Biddle** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:39 pm

stewie15 wrote:
it's not like they could have done much else with John Smith strapped to a pole.
Oh I could think of a few things

Escapay · Post by **Escapay** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:37 pm

blackcauldron85 wrote:during the "If I Never Knew You" scene (which I love, btw): The whole flashback sequence- was that always supposed to be in that scene, or was that only added once they got ready for the Special Edition?

They don't talk about the flashback in the DVD's commentary or "The Making of..." featurette for the song, but in David Koenig's Mouse Under Glass (pp. 243-244), it says this:

Also animated was a sequence in which Pocahontas visits John Smith imprisoned in an Indian hut the night before he is sentenced to die, and she sings the reflective "If I Never Knew You." The beautiful ballad had Grammy written all over it, but presented a big challenge for the animators. "The entire song was not lyric-specific. There were no visuals, and they weren't doing anything. It was just her saying, 'I love you,' " [Tom] Sito said. "Smith is tied to a stick in a hut that's empty with her kneeling in front of him. Ed gombert did the storyboards and said, 'I keep trying to get out of this room...' " Gombert finally resorted to a montage of flashbacks.

albert

blackcauldron85 · Post by **blackcauldron85** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:40 pm

So the flashbacks were always planned- good to know! Thanks so much, Albert!

:pink::pink:

akhenaten · Post by **akhenaten** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:17 pm

as the hugest pocahontas fan, i welcome the inclusion of the deleted scene and reprise that best bookend their love story.however, i find the flashback rather distateful. it was sloppily done, and even the new sequence poses a problematic ever shriking hut column, the one used to tie smith at.i feel, given the short flashback moment, they couldve opted to show a what if scenario had they not meet.or an alternative happy ending if none of the tragedy happened.

SpringHeelJack · Post by **SpringHeelJack** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:45 pm

akhenaten wrote:they couldve opted to show a what if scenario had they not meet.or an alternative happy ending if none of the tragedy happened.

That, to me, feels as cheesy / a little too much like the "Somewhere" ballet in "West Side Story". While the montage seems like an easy out, it's not the kind of song you can do too much with visually.

Unless, like, Pocahontas untied John, walked around with him a bit, then tied him back up and left.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:10 am

akhenaten wrote: i find the flashback rather distateful.

Agreed. I hated the flashback when i first saw it as a deleted scene and still hate it even after it was completed in the 10th Anniversary edition. I'm not sure what else could have worked alternatively but i know that the flashbacks irk me. (Although i love both the song and the rest of the sequence).

rj.disney · Post by **rj.disney** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:03 am

I love the new included scene! Funny how that sequence changed my perception of Pocahontas. This movie was the reason why we did not watch The Hunchback of Notre Dame in the theaters back in 1996. My mom told me how me and my sister were bored with Pocahontas so we did not even bother to see Disney's next movie which was HOND (forgive me, I was just 5 when Pocahontas came out!). However my sister and I would still insist renting this on VHS just to see the Colors of the Wind sequence.

I decided to give this movie another try back in 2004 when I bought the Gold Collection DVD and my view of the movie changed only a little bit. But with the Special Edition, I suddenly became obsessed with the movie.

While I would prefer an alternative to the flashbacks, I can live with them, especially now that I know that it was what was intended even back then. What I found rather irking were some inconsistencies (like the full moon being absent from the same spot a few moments later after it was first shown and Percy, Meeko, and Flit disappearing in the next scene while they were just beside John and Pocahontas previously). However, they are not that major and I still LURV the movie

Margos · Post by **Margos** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:53 am

I agree. I find that I enjoy the movie much more now that they have reinstated that scene. Before, I thought that their relationship must not have been very meaningful, as they both gave it up very quickly. It never felt strong enough to me.
When I saw this scene, however, I realized that their love ran very deep, and I saw just how a hard it was for them to give it up. "If I Never Knew You," flashbacks and all, makes them seem more alive, more in love, and that's why I love it!

singerguy04 · Post by **singerguy04** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:35 am

I also believe that the film greatly benefits from having the sequence added into it. I've always loved this movie, so much so that my family went on vacation to Jamestown soon after it's release. One of it's big flaws however was Pocahontas and John Smith's romance. The original version almost makes you think they were either a small fling or maybe just really good friends that kissed once. It was just odd and I never as a child thought they actually loved each other. Now however, the love is definitely there. On top of just the song being added, the reprise later in the film when Smith is leaving back for London is heart breaking! It just makes so much sense and it seems so silly they took it out to begin with.

SmartAleck25 · Post by **SmartAleck25** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:34 pm

Bump.
Do you guys think that the restoration is any good? If so, I might pick this up. I always loved this movie as a kid. But I never did like the new sequence, I don't like it when Disney adds new scenes to their Special Edition DVDs. They're interesting, but unnecessary(with the exception of Human Again). The song is beautiful though.

SpringHeelJack · Post by **SpringHeelJack** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:39 pm

The DVD looks great. Video quality, sound, and special features all make it worth your while. It's the best we will have until the inevitable hi-def release.

And really here, it's a little different than, say, "The Morning Report", which was thrown in for no good reason and was never supposed to be there, and "Human Again", which was never firmly in place. "If I Never Knew You" was supposed to be there up until the end, as opposed to the other songs.

KubrickFan · Post by **KubrickFan** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:27 am

SmartAleck25 wrote:Bump.
Do you guys think that the restoration is any good? If so, I might pick this up. I always loved this movie as a kid. But I never did like the new sequence, I don't like it when Disney adds new scenes to their Special Edition DVDs. They're interesting, but unnecessary(with the exception of Human Again). The song is beautiful though.

It's from 1995, there's no need for a restoration and there never will be. Especially because it was made in CAPS. They just used the digital files and put those on the dvd.
I do think that the dvd holds up remarkably well, compared to Blu-rays (I know Pocahontas isn't out on Blu, but compared to other animation it holds up pretty good) but that's the way with a lot of animation.

rj.disney · Post by **rj.disney** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:48 am

KubrickFan wrote:
It's from 1995, there's no need for a restoration and there never will be. Especially because it was made in CAPS. They just used the digital files and put those on the dvd.
I do think that the dvd holds up remarkably well, compared to Blu-rays (I know Pocahontas isn't out on Blu, but compared to other animation it holds up pretty good) but that's the way with a lot of animation.

Yes, no restoration is needed for CAPS files, which makes me wonder why Disney is holding Hercules and Hunchback up (I know, I know that this has been discussed n times before, but it is still frustrating).

And with regards to the new sequence, it was originally intended to be in the movie and it fits well, especially if you have noted that the whole score of Pocahontas has the "If I Never Knew You" motif recurring a number of times.

ajmrowland · Post by **ajmrowland** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:59 am

Yeah, the new song fits very well.

As for Herc and Hunch, you know more things than presentation factor in the decision to rerelease films.

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