Disney sweatshop labour

[milojthatch]

If you don't mind my blunt honesty, Goliath, but I find it surprising that you, someone who seems to have a detest towards both Disney the man and Disney the corporation, is an active participant in a site that is meant to CELEBRATE the efforts of both man and company.

Not saying that you should be a blind fanboy ignorant of the flaws and unethical treatment the company is guilty of, and that its OK to question even the stuff you like. I just find it odd since the most participation I see out of you is in threads like this.

Also, Goliath, not all the money they generate from DVD and ticket sales go directly to the "evil" side of Disney. They also have good people that work hard to make all of this a reality. The money they earn also go towards them. Animators, theme park performers, advertisers, editors, janitors, etc. These people are also Disney, and they are proud of their jobs. They deserve to get paid too.

Well said! I worked for the Disney Store once, I know very well the evil side of it. However, I choose to focus on the good and hope that out shines the bad. That and by standing up against the bad, maybe if we all did that, it would lessen. At least I'd feel better about myself.

But, it does seem odd that on a site that is all about the fandom of a man and a company, anyone would join just to bash it. I've seen similar things on groups on Facebook and I don't get it.

[Goliath]

I'm glad you have a social consciense where corporations are concerned. Most people in our society don't seem to have that. Have you ever considered, though, that perhaps boycotting products produced by sweatshop labor hurts the workers making them? After all, it may mean they make even less money then they otherwise would (since the company has less money to give them) and could lead to some of them losing those jobs, particularly if the boycott becomes widespread, and they must be pretty desperate already if they've chosen to work in such places.

Yes, I've thought about that, and it's one possible repercussion that Werner and Weiss mention in their book. I'm sure this is how Disney (and other corporations) plays the game, but in theory, it's nonense. Because Disney makes so much money/profits, they really don't need to worry about me or any consumer(group) boycotting them. They make enough to pay every employee a decent living wage. The reason they don't, is not because they can't, but because they don't want to. It's all about greed. With the salary of the Bob Iger alone you could pay all Chinese employees a handsome living wage.

I've looked around, and it seems you're right about the book: there seems to be no English translation. Which is strange, because it is being advertised in English. I will post a summary of the part about Disney tomorrow (tomorrow for me, I don't know what time it'll be in the US).

[Goliath]

If you don't mind my blunt honesty, Goliath, but I find it surprising that you, someone who seems to have a detest towards both Disney the man and Disney the corporation, is an active participant in a site that is meant to CELEBRATE the efforts of both man and company.

I never mind blunt honesty.

As anybody who follows my contributions to UD will find out, I *love* Disney cartoons, movies and comics. I know most Classics line by line; I have memorized more comics than I can remember; and I know a great deal about Disney and enjoy getting to know more every chance I get.

Maybe I've recently been most active in critical threads, but then again, there have been a lot of these threads lately. Like I've said in threads about the person Walt Disney: I didn't know the man personally, so I can't say for sure how he was. But from what I've read, seen and heard, he doesn't come off as a very nice person. That doesn't take anything away from his unmatched artistic instincts and his great feeling for storytelling and creating beautiful films. But one thing I feel very strong about, is his "friendly testifying" for the HUAC. This, to me, is a cardinal sin. Too many careers and lives have been ruïned by the blacklisting, for me to glance over it.

What I also hate, is the Disney CORPORATION. That doesn't mean I think bad of the artists, or any of the 'regular' people who work for Disney. The artists are brilliant and they create wonderfull movies, and everybody else is just doing their work. What I can't forgive, though, is the current corporate mentality at Disney. Say about Walt what you want, but he was interested in providing quality entertainment, and he risked anything for it. His primal motive wasn't profit. Of course he wanted his films to make money, but only so he could invest the returns in even better, bigger projects. Nowadays, though, profit is the major motive. Cheap straight-to-dvd sequels; underpayment of Disney park personell; yes, child labour in sweatshops: all signs of a corporation which main goal is not quality entertainment, but making a quick, cheap buck.

Thank you for your honesty.

[Margos]

I don't know, I've heard the stories about Walt as an employer, Walt as a relative, Walt as a friend. I think he was a good man. He was flawed, but we all are. He had his issues, his vices, but there was something kind inside of him.

[milojthatch]

I don't know, I've heard the stories about Walt as an employer, Walt as a relative, Walt as a friend. I think he was a good man. He was flawed, but we all are. He had his issues, his vices, but there was something kind inside of him.

I totally agree. So far as Walt the employer, I have heard about as many bad stories as I have good. I think he was human, but, he was a good human.

[Margos]

Well, Walt the employer seems to have rewarded hard work handsomely, although he was notorious for having a bit of a temper from time to time.

[pap64]

Well, Walt the employer seems to have rewarded hard work handsomely, although he was notorious for having a bit of a temper from time to time.

That's actually the worst I heard about Walt. But let's be honest here... If you were running a company that had YOUR name would you allow mediocre work? Of course not!

Some of the most creative people in the world are notorious for being demanding. And this is what makes them successful. Walt is no exception. Hell, if he was alive right now he wouldn't allow his name to be used on things like cheap sequels, much less allow them to be approved!

[WDWLocal]

Nowadays, though, profit is the major motive. Cheap straight-to-dvd sequels; underpayment of Disney park personell; yes, child labour in sweatshops: all signs of a corporation which main goal is not quality entertainment, but making a quick, cheap buck.

That's not entirely true.

I agree with those who think that you're being over-critical.

[411314]

I'm glad you have a social consciense where corporations are concerned. Most people in our society don't seem to have that. Have you ever considered, though, that perhaps boycotting products produced by sweatshop labor hurts the workers making them? After all, it may mean they make even less money then they otherwise would (since the company has less money to give them) and could lead to some of them losing those jobs, particularly if the boycott becomes widespread, and they must be pretty desperate already if they've chosen to work in such places.

Yes, I've thought about that, and it's one possible repercussion that Werner and Weiss mention in their book. I'm sure this is how Disney (and other corporations) plays the game, but in theory, it's nonense. Because Disney makes so much money/profits, they really don't need to worry about me or any consumer(group) boycotting them.

But doesn't that same logic also mean that it doesn't matter if you buy Disney dolls or other merchandise because they'll still make plenty of money without you, thus making it pointless for you to avoid the products for the reason you described?

I've looked around, and it seems you're right about the book: there seems to be no English translation. Which is strange, because it is being advertised in English. I will post a summary of the part about Disney tomorrow (tomorrow for me, I don't know what time it'll be in the US).

Thanks.

[411314]

Of course he wanted his films to make money, but only so he could invest the returns in even better, bigger projects.

I suspect it would be an exaggeration to say Walt only wanted money to make more, even better films. Everyone wants to use some or their money for leisure and to feed their families, if they have any. But I think I understand your point. It's true that Disney now often makes films with little to no storytelling or artistic effort just to make money, and quite possibly does unethical things to make money as well (I say "quite possibly" because, though it seems plausible to me, I still haven't seen proof beyond reasonable doubt that Disney intentionally does unethical things, as one of the workers in that film did say something like "when potential customers come, the factory puts on a show").[/quote]

Nowadays, though, profit is the major motive.

I don't mean to be rude, but this statement seems a bit naive. Every corporation's goal is profit. That's what corporations do, and they have a responsibility to their shareholders to do so if they can do it ethically.

[pap64]

But doesn't that same logic also mean that it doesn't matter if you buy Disney dolls or other merchandise because they'll still make plenty of money without you, thus making it pointless for you to avoid the products for the reason you described?

This is more of a self conscious thing than it is about truly stopping the practice. Let me explain...

When people realize that a practice, such as eating meat, buying products from sweat shops, illegally downloading movies, and such, is un-ethical, and they are participating in it they begin to feel guilty. In order to feel better, they will stop doing whatever is making them anxious. Their conscience is at ease so to speak, telling themselves "Well, I am not be able to to this practice, but at least I am not participating in it!".

In some cases, the guilt is so severe that they will join groups that are very proactive when it comes to these practices and will do anything to try and change things, even if it means going against the law.

But the reality of the situation is that most will opt to cease doing these things and feel better.

So again, this is more about feeling better for yourself than it is about truly stop these practices for good.

Goliath: Feel free to correct me. I am be wrong in this, but I DO know that some people will just stop these sort of things in order to feel better about themselves, not truly putting any efforts into putting an end to this.

[milojthatch]

Well, Walt the employer seems to have rewarded hard work handsomely, although he was notorious for having a bit of a temper from time to time.

From what I have heard, it depended what your job was as to how you most likely would see Walt. he was nicer to some of his employees then others.

Like wise, I heard he had a temper as well.

Nowadays, though, profit is the major motive. Cheap straight-to-dvd sequels; underpayment of Disney park personell; yes, child labour in sweatshops: all signs of a corporation which main goal is not quality entertainment, but making a quick, cheap buck.

That's not entirely true.

I agree with those who think that you're being over-critical.

However it's not entirely NOT true either. Corporate greed is a big problem in the World, certainly the US where the sky is the limit on how much one can make. Such greed is what has lead the various financial issue the last few years and bank crashes. How many lives have been destroyed as a result? And do people learn? Nope.

[Goliath]

I'm terribly sorry for the delay, but I couldn't find the time yesterday. But here it is. The book provides a summary of all companies that are being discussed. I have translated this summary. This is a translation in English, from the Dutch, which was itself a translation of the German:

The Walt Disney Company

Company info
Returns (2002): € 21.79 billion
Profits (2002): € 2.43 billion
Home: Burbank (California, USA)

Accusations

Child labour, exploitation (sweatshop labour), and abuses in supply companies

[…] It is too bad that this concern, that has brightened up all of our childhood years, also has a dark side. Some of the Disney-characters in plastic are being produced in Asia under conditions that are such, that you would wish it was just a Disney-movie, so it would have a happy ending. But unfortunately, the reality is different. An investigation done by the Canadian authorities revelead terrifying conditions in the supply-company KTBA in Laguna Hills, California: around 800 employees were fabricating party-articles, for only $ 1.35 per hour, while the legal minimum wage in California is $ 6.25. Children between 7 and 15 years old were also working in the factory. The Walt Disney Company denied any responsibility, but in 2001, it was prepared to pay $ 903,000 in compensations.
Until the fall of 2002, the conditions of a supply-company of Disney in Bangladesh were as follows: de female employees had to sow Disney T-shirts for 14 or 15 hours a day and they regularly took a beating from the supervisors. They got paid $ 0.05 per Disney T-shirt, that’s a quarter percent of the price Disney sells them for ($ 17.99). When human rights organisations such as National Labour Committee started to question these malpractices, The Walt Disney Company stopped all orders. Under pressure of the public opinion, the owner of the supply company improved the working conditions.
In the fall of 2002, an investigation of the International Transport Workers Association, revealed under which conditions the personell of luxury cruise ships like the Disney Magic had to work: they have extreme long working hour (up to 16 hours a day, seven days a week) and are being underpaid.
In the beginning of 2001 a critical consumers’ organisation in Hong Kong published a report about severe malpractices in Chinese factories which made products for the Walt Disney Company: working weeks of 7 days, days of 18 hours, and this for months in a row. 16 year old girls received a wage between € 38 and € 63 a month. This wage lies under the legally required standard. Already in 2000, likewise malpractices in four other Chinese supply companies of Disney had been made public. The reaction of the “dream company”: with three of the four companies, all orders were immediately halted. The female employees all lost their jobs and, in this way, they were being harmed twice. Likewise malpractices were also brought to light about factories in Macao that produced for the Disney-concern.
In October of 1998, workers of a supply company of Disney in Haïti were being threatened with violence by their superiors because they wanted to organize themselves in unions. At least seven employees were fired because they were being suspected of union activities.

('Het nieuwe Zwartboek Wereldmerken en hun praktijken', by Klaus Werner & Hans Weiss, pp. 284-285)

[Goliath]

I agree with those who think that you're being over-critical.

Of course people on a Disney-forum are not happy with fair and honest criticism of their favorite 'brand'. But the reality is that Disney is a multibilliondollar corporation nowadays. "Uncle Walt"'s days are forever over. I'm sure Walt Disney himself would never have allowed this.

But doesn't that same logic also mean that it doesn't matter if you buy Disney dolls or other merchandise because they'll still make plenty of money without you, thus making it pointless for you to avoid the products for the reason you described?

No, because I don't want to own anything that was made out of child- or 'slave' labour. One person can hardly make a difference, but if people in *big numbers* would stop buying the merchandise and protest at Disney, it could make a difference. But that is for everybody personally to decide. I'm not judging anybody.

[WDWLocal]

Well, Walt the employer seems to have rewarded hard work handsomely, although he was notorious for having a bit of a temper from time to time.

From what I have heard, it depended what your job was as to how you most likely would see Walt. he was nicer to some of his employees then others.

Like wise, I heard he had a temper as well.

That's not entirely true.

I agree with those who think that you're being over-critical.

However it's not entirely NOT true either. Corporate greed is a big problem in the World, certainly the US where the sky is the limit on how much one can make. Such greed is what has lead the various financial issue the last few years and bank crashes. How many lives have been destroyed as a result? And do people learn? Nope.

Well, although some people do not learn their lesson, there are always some people out there who DO learn.

No over-generalizations required.

[WDWLocal]

"Uncle Walt"'s days are forever over.

Not really.

Don't jump to conclusions. It's a health risk.

[ajmrowland]

Yeah, but the truth is we don't know whether or not the Powers That Be are aware of these situations.

[Goliath]

In addition to the Werner & Weiss-book (see above), the Dutch author Rein van Willigen has written about this subject in his book 'Mou$e Entertainment' (1999). I translate from the Dutch:

Disney in the Third World

Regularly, messages surface about the dreadful conditions in which Disney-products are being made in low-wages-countries in the Third World. Often, it's about severe forms of child labour.
Most of the time, Disney is not directly responsible for the production. It handles about a subcontractor of Disney or about companies which have been licensed by the Disney-concern to make and sell Disney-products. But Disney, the concern that brings so much child-friendly entertainment, has proven to be more insensitive than many other world-concerns. It has never shown the tendency to break with subcontractors or licence-keepers which produce under degrading circumstances.
Every now and then, a shocking story is revealed. In Haïti, employees had to sow 1600 collars to Disney-T-shirts for the poor daily wage of $ 2.40. In the little Vietnames factory Keyhinge Toys, Disney toys are being produced for a supplier that operates from Hong Kong. Of the 1800 employees, over 90 percent consists of teenage girls; the salary is $ 0.60 or $ 0.70 a day. The Eden Group produces Mickey Mouse Americanwear (clothing) in Thailand. In March and August of 1996, the factory fires 1145 of their elderly, female employees, only to hire very young people in their place. The Bangkonk Post brings the affair in September of 1996 to light. The local union asks Disney to revoke the licenses of such companies. Without succes, the concern (despite the big ears of the mouse) hears badly.
In Burma, clothing with Disney-characters are being made. The factories are being guarded by military personell of the dictatorial regime. The employees make workweeks of 60 hours, for a wage of $ o.o6 an hour. Boston Globe publishes that those who have the guts to ask for better working conditions, are being put in prison --in the best case. Execution is a simpler solution. In this case, the pressure of the public opinion, given form in the Free Burma Campaign, gets too heavy: Mamiye Brothers, amongst others, pulls out of Burma.
The ghost of Walt is nowhere to be found in the current Disney. Once, Walt put it this way: "I have little respect for money." Money, to him, was a means and a condition to realise his dreams and to express his artistic productions. In another expression, the founder said: "My goal is to make people, especially children, happy."
Now, employees in the Third World are being exploited for every single cent. And that, with merchandising products where, in sale-prices, no price can be high enough. Figurines of the expensive Walt Disney Classics Collection are coming with a label: 'handcrafted in Thailand'. You don't want to know under which circumstances these little works of art could have been made. The times have changed. Under Eisner, the growth of profit, shareholder value and option value are coming in the first place, also by Disney.

('Mou$e Entertainment: De geschiedenis van Walt Disney & Company', p. 169)

[Goliath]

Yeah, but the truth is we don't know whether or not the Powers That Be are aware of these situations.

Of course they are. If they are outsourcing their production to places like China and Third World countries, they *know* working conditions in those countries are awful. Like I wrote above, at one time Disney even worked with subcontractors in Burma, a military dictatorship. Do you honestly think the good people of the Disney management in Burbank don't know that, if they pay shady subcontractors in Third World countries like shit to produce merchanise, the employees will be paid and treated like shit too? That's naïve!

[ajmrowland]

Well, now that you put it that way, no. I'm just saying China's notorious for trying to desperately cover things up.