The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part III

[ColorsOfTheWind]

What about Edward? I find Naveen and him similar, only Naveen is a lot more... hoish.

Whoops! I'll admit I wasn't thinking of Edward when writing that! Touche.

I didn't know that she was Charlotte's slave! They did change it for better though. I'm also confused about something. In the sneak peek on the Snow White Blu-ray, it seemed like Charlotte was kind of belittling Tiana and teasing her. I find it a wonder that they are "best" friends. But it seems that they still are in the present day. Tiana seems to envy Charlotte's wealth and power and innocence

To me, the beginning of the film just seemed like two kids playing and teasing with each other, something that is very common when kids are that age. Then, to top it off, the two start rolling around on the floor laughing with each other. Maybe it's just me, but I actually found them a lot friendlier than they probably would be if the film was more realistic (which I have no problem with, by the way. I quite enjoy their relationship).

I'm not sure where you're seeing Tiana's envy for Charlotte's wealth. I don't recall anything from that scene that would suggest envy...

[Babaloo]

For anyone who has watched the movie already, I was wondering around which part does Tiana become a frog? Is it halfway through the movie, or earlier? I just wanted to know what is the ration of Tiana appearing as a human and as a frog...

[SmartAleck25]

I don't know, I just kind of inferred that she was jealous, seeing all of the dresses and toys and gifts she got, while she had to stick with making gumbo. I might have interpreted it wrong. Ah, well. I'll just wait for the movie.

[nomad2010]

Agreed. The negative "reviews" aren't actually reviewing the film, but rather Tiana's skin colour. In my mind, the Rotten Tomatoes rating is 100%, because no way should those reviews count or matter, especially when they're not providing legitamate arguments and not talking about the film as a whole.

exactly. at least 3/4 of the negative reviews don't even talk about whether the movie is good or enjoyable or even any positive aspect of it. they are completely focused on that fact that it depicts people wrong. you know what?! we live in 2009 where people should realize that race doesnt matter and that no one cares anymore about race (to a good extent). the only people who do are the ones who want to see it. disney i think handled the situation perfectly. these reviews to be honest shouldnt even be counted as reviews. they are nit-picking people wanting to tear down something for no reason other than that they feel the need to.

[ColorsOfTheWind]

For anyone who has watched the movie already, I was wondering around which part does Tiana become a frog? Is it halfway through the movie, or earlier? I just wanted to know what is the ration of Tiana appearing as a human and as a frog...

There's a good amount of film dedicated to human Tiana At the D23 Expo, the first 30 minutes of the film was shown and I heard from someone that the 30 minute segment ended right when she became a frog. If this is wrong, feel free to correct me, but having seen the entire movie already, this seems about right.

[Escapay]

In my mind, the Rotten Tomatoes rating is 100%, because no way should those reviews count or matter, especially when they're not providing legitamate arguments and not talking about the film as a whole.

these reviews to be honest shouldnt even be counted as reviews. they are nit-picking people wanting to tear down something for no reason other than that they feel the need to.

Why? Because you disagree with them? Because they criticize aspects of the film which - let's be honest - are bound to be discussed in a review no matter if the film was good or bad? A reviewer is supposed to watch something, discuss what they liked and didn't like, and say whether or not it's worth watching. I read the five "rotten" reviews that RT list, and honestly, none of them (to me) come across as people intentionally nit-picking the movie or wanting to tear it down because they feel the need to. Well, maybe Armond White's, but people slam on him far too much as going against what everyone else says, simply to go against what everyone else says. I don't think that's what he was doing in his review, he did have a few good arguments. IMO, Slant Magazine's review was probably the best of the five. You also have to consider the audience that some reviews are written for. The review from Christianity Today is more concerned about the values depicted in the movie rather than any race issues.

Honestly, it's ridiculous how anything critical written about The Princess and the Frog yields over-the-top reactions from fans. Everyone's built up the movie so much in their heads that reading a few "nay" reviews gets them so worked up to the point of saying ridiculous things like "those reviews don't count". Especially since they're gonna watch the damn movie regardless what naysaying critics write.

If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. If you don't, well, you don't.

albert

[Ariellen]

At the D23 Expo, the first 30 minutes of the film was shown and I heard from someone that the 30 minute segment ended right when she became a frog. If this is wrong, feel free to correct me, but having seen the entire movie already, this seems about right.

You're correct! The segment at the Expo ended at the moment where she screamed in reaction to being amphibious. I'm going crazy with anticipation to see the rest of the film now!

[jpanimation]

Why are people so fixated on the Rotten Tomatoes percentage? With a movie like this, you're more likely to agree with the people on this forum then some critic reviewing this professionally as a film and not on fan enjoyment level. If you really want to obsess with Rotten Tomatoes, then take a look at the critic rating average, as that will give you a better idea of the general critic consensus then the percentage of positive. The average rating that critics are giving it is 6.9/10.

Like I said, does anyone actually care what critics have to say? As Transformers 2 and Shrek 3 have shown, people could care less if its something they really want to see (except those movies were truly terrible, unlike The Princess and the Frog, which I expect will be good).

[rj.disney]

I remember one critic review for Pocahontas in which it was criticized for depicting racial tensions coz the critic it was inappropriate for children and that Disney should just resort to what they do best- a fun story with memorable songs.

Now that Disney ignored that and returned to what they call "good story-telling" with TPaTF, they are still being criticized for not showing the very thing that they were criticized for tackling years ago.

Critics, what do you want?

[blackcauldron85]

Buy TP&tF tickets in advance, get a free iTunes download of "Dig a Little Deeper":

The Princess and the Frog Free iTunes Download
http://www.fandango.com/promo/princessa ... mail__Extl


Disney's first African-American princess a hot item
http://www.suntimes.com/business/191090 ... 30.article
(via laughingplace.com)

And the new character's merchandise is outselling other Disney Princess items by double-digit percentages, Disney said. Available for about a month, 45,000 dolls have been sold -- 17,000 just last week.

"The Princess and the Frog" bedding has sold nearly triple the amount of other Disney Princess bedding, and Disney stores report Tiana role-play dresses are outselling all other princess dresses.

Disney's new Princess Tiana debuts in video games
http://www.app.com/article/20091128/LIF ... source=rss
(via laughingplace.com)

(edited because I messed up the sizing)

[Disney's Divinity]

these reviews to be honest shouldnt even be counted as reviews. they are nit-picking people wanting to tear down something for no reason other than that they feel the need to.

Why? Because you disagree with them? Because they criticize aspects of the film which - let's be honest - are bound to be discussed in a review no matter if the film was good or bad? A reviewer is supposed to watch something, discuss what they liked and didn't like, and say whether or not it's worth watching. I read the five "rotten" reviews that RT list, and honestly, none of them (to me) come across as people intentionally nit-picking the movie or wanting to tear it down because they feel the need to. Well, maybe Armond White's, but people slam on him far too much as going against what everyone else says, simply to go against what everyone else says. I don't think that's what he was doing in his review, he did have a few good arguments. ...The review from Christianity Today is more concerned about the values depicted in the movie rather than any race issues.

Honestly, it's ridiculous how anything critical written about The Princess and the Frog yields over-the-top reactions from fans.
albert

I agree, Escapay. I read Armond White's review, and I feel the need to first point out that I really don't know who he is or his history in giving bad reviews, but I actually understood why he felt the way he did about certain issues. To me, he was judging not only the movie, but also Disney's marketing of the movie. Disney's tagged this movie as very important to Disney's history--and not because it's the "return" to traditional animation. You can't criticize reviews for focusing on race when the movies themselves focus on it! It's part of the reason so many have been sick of TP&TF since the beginning, because it's always came off as some pretentious show of equality to grab viewers and money. Who knows if it'll be a nice, little movie with a nice, little sotry, considering that's not what Disney's been focusing on. And I'm pretty sure it's been an issue since the beginning that this movie is associated with frogs and I think White brings up a good point that, since the protagonists aren't black for most of the movie, Disney gets to cash in on their marketing without actually showing African American characters for most of the movie. He certainly isn't being racist by focusing on what Disney wants us to see (you'll find he actually complimented Song of the South--shocker!). He's just not swallowing it without looking first. (Just a side note, I'm not saying I agree with him as I haven't seen the movie, but I don't think you can just disqualify his opinion because you don't agree with it).

And I feel the need to also say that not all critics are responsible for everything that's been said. We don't know if White, or any of the other critics, were the ones lambasting Maddy and the chambermaid thing and we don't know if they were the ones downing Pocahontas for being inappropriate for children. Reviewers are individuals, too. They're not just some big conglomerate out to spit on everything.

[Babaloo]

People might say it's fine to say what they think of the whole race thing, but it's still not appropriate in a review. If you want to talk about the racial issue or anything like that, write it in an article or editorial, not a movie review. What White wrote did not feel like a film review. A review is meant to talk about the movie itself, its characters, strong points, weak points, etc, not the way the company advertised it! That, once again, should be only in articles. I agree with pap64 here, it should only be about the movie! I would understand if White didn't like a character or the story line, or something like that, but he doesn't even mention things related to the film other than Tiana only appears as a human for a little amount of time. Where is the parts stating whether he liked her as a character or the music? No where (well he mentions it a bit, but relatively small compared to his rant about race)! Because, and I don't care what anyone says, this should not count as a review!

[nomad2010]

[quote="Escapay"
Why? Because you disagree with them? Because they criticize aspects of the film which - let's be honest - are bound to be discussed in a review no matter if the film was good or bad? A reviewer is supposed to watch something, discuss what they liked and didn't like, and say whether or not it's worth watching.
[/quote]

no.. that's not what i meant. by that i meant that they are only focused on the race junk and not the movie. at least three of the negative reviews said nothing about the actual plot or whether or not they enjoyed the movie.. just the fact that it wasn't as good as the "greats" and that the race thing bothered them. the race thing shouldn't come into play when judging whether the movie is good or not.

[Margos]

I gotta go with Babaloo and Nomad, Scaps. They're absolutely right. Yammering on and on about the race of a film's protagonist doesn't make a good review. He didn't talk too much about the movie itself, but about some stupid controversy, and an invalid one, surrounding it.

I mean, really, how good of a review of of "Sleeping Beauty" would it be if I just complained because they "tried too hard" to make Phillip a good dancer, because everyone knows that white men can't dance! It's obviously reverse racism!

[pap64]

I must state this one more time...I am NOT against negative reviews or people expressing disappointment over the film. If they didn't like it that's their problem. This wouldn't be the first time I've liked something that everybody else hated, so again, not an issue here. What I am criticizing is that some reviews are using outside issues in order to judge a film or jump on it before they even get to see it.

You might believe that White talking about the racial issue is pivotal in writing his review. The truth is that the film's racial issues has NOTHING to do with the overall quality of the game. Did Disney make a big deal about Tiana being the first black princess? Yes. Did the controversy force the film to change many times? Yes. But, do they have any role in the film's overall quality? You might say yes, but the truth is that they don't.

Once more, Tiana being black and Naveen being of mixed race, and the issues that surfaced because of that, doesn't tell me if the film is good or not. What tells me is how well written and developed these characters are.

Reviewers and critics ARE free to express their opinions. They just have to keep them apart from their reviews. If I read a review that starts listing every personal issue the reviewer has with the product or company, then I can't trust it. Likewise if the review starts talking about how this plays an important role in his or her life. I simply...don't...care.

And another thing, I AM excited for the film, and want it to be good and perform well at the box office. HOWEVER, if I see the film and don't like it, I will explain my issues with it if I have it.

Just because we are excited for the film it doesn't mean that we are being overly fanatical over it and believe that every bad review should be burn at the stake. All we are saying is to give the film a chance and review it in a professional, not drawing to any unfair conclusions, bash any other film or bring any issues not related to the film in order to criticize its worth.

No one is exaggerating or going over the top here.

[PatrickvD]

Armond White hated WALL-E, Up, The Dark Knight, Milk, Slumdog Millionaire, Precious, Iron Man, an Education.... the list goes on and on. Every single movie that was even remotely praised by critics and embraced by audiences he hates.

He's not a critic. He's a clown who was bullied horribly in high school and has declared himself the Al Sharpton of movie critics. He feels that only he understands African American issues and can ramble on and on for hours about what's wrong with Oprah and Tyler Perry. He rarely discusses things like screenplay, cinematography, acting, music, montage.... you know... MOVIE STUFF.

Can we all stop listening to this moron please? He knows nothing about film. All he knows his how to get our attention. And he succeeds every damn time.

[Margos]

We walk around being black every day, and nobody talks about it. So, I suggest you follow your instinct and let it be nothing to be talked about.

That's all I have to say about Armond White.

[PatrickvD]

Also, off the top of my head White has praised the following films:

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen..... ....I .... but... never mind.
Land of the Lost
Dance Flick.......
Terminator: Salvation

oh and he called "I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry" a ... modern classic..... and that right there is discriminatory insult to gays around the world. Thanks douche. And thanks NY Film Critics.

[Cordy_Biddle]

Update for Aussies:

"Princess and the Frog" will be released nation-wide on January 1st. Selected preview screenings start later this month.

[drnilescrane]

Update for Aussies:

"Princess and the Frog" will be released nation-wide on January 1st. Selected preview screenings start later this month.

I actually called up WDSMP to find out the date about 6 months ago - In Sydney it's a few people in a small office

I'm also waiting for eVent (still prefer the name GU) to get their act together with an Advance screening - I hope they do a Christmas Eve screening like Enchanted (took the whole family to that one). We also did the Christmas Day bolt screening but it was in the early afternoon at George Street only - just didn't feel right.