The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part III

[Marce82]

Well, I gotta say the soundtrack, though not as good as other Disney ones, is indeed catchy. I find myself singing some of the songs in my head when im walking down the street...thats a good sign!

Aside from that...I cheated today. The Disney Store was having a huge sale, and there was a long line to the register...so I picked up a short PATF book, and read the whole thing while I waited. I couldn't help myself! THe good thing is the book was very short, so it didnt give many details, but a basic plot.

And I have to say i am VERY happy, and even more excited now to see the film. THe story is very complex, there is a lot of plot to cover, and NO CHARACTER HAS NO REASON TO BE. I am sometimes annoyed when they add a character just cause its cute but it has no role in the film (Djali, are you listening?), but it seems here every character has a major role.


People....im counting the minutes!

[Poody]

I hadn't seen this mentioned but... for those who haven't bought the soundtrack (yet)...


Disney is releasing a CD called "Songs Inspired by Princess and the Frog" on 2/9/2010 Seems far off... LOL and "All new songs by Tiana, Louis, and Ray" YAY! (what about Naveen?)
I'm excited to hear Anika Noni Rose perform more tracks... I believe they haven't done anything like this since The Little Mermaid.

[pap64]

I find it both sad and funny that at Cartoon Brew people are bashing the movie. I swear its like no Disney film (save for Pixar) gets a break there. I'm not worried, though. They also bashed A Christmas Carol, and danced on its apparent grave, but I thought the film was great.

I also find it appalling that they considering Brother Bear as one of the worst films out of the Disney canon. I mean its not one of my personal favorites, but the film had heart, the story was strong and the characters were great.

Seriously that site is filled with animation snubs...

[PrincePhillipFan]

I find it both sad and funny that at Cartoon Brew people are bashing the movie. I swear its like no Disney film (save for Pixar) gets a break there. I'm not worried, though. They also bashed A Christmas Carol, and danced on its apparent grave, but I thought the film was great.

I also find it appalling that they considering Brother Bear as one of the worst films out of the Disney canon. I mean its not one of my personal favorites, but the film had heart, the story was strong and the characters were great.

Seriously that site is filled with animation snubs...

That's why I typically tend to stray away from Cartoon Brew. I'm all for people voicing their opinions, but when people almost start proclaiming their own analysises as fact is when people really grate on me. It seems like no matter what topic is being discussed, the posters' negative comments always have an edge of pretention to them.

After reading the comments sometimes, I feel like I need a kleenex to wipe off all the snottiness on my screen. I'm still going to reserve my own judgement until I see the film. I love a lot of the so-called "lesser" films, such as Sword In The Stone, Atlantis, etc which apparently on that site automatically makes me have all my taste in my mouth.

[pap64]

I find it both sad and funny that at Cartoon Brew people are bashing the movie. I swear its like no Disney film (save for Pixar) gets a break there. I'm not worried, though. They also bashed A Christmas Carol, and danced on its apparent grave, but I thought the film was great.

I also find it appalling that they considering Brother Bear as one of the worst films out of the Disney canon. I mean its not one of my personal favorites, but the film had heart, the story was strong and the characters were great.

Seriously that site is filled with animation snubs...

That's why I typically tend to stray away from Cartoon Brew. I'm all for people voicing their opinions, but when people almost start proclaiming their own analysises as fact is when people really grate on me. It seems like no matter what topic is being discussed, the posters' negative comments always have an edge of pretention to them.

After reading the comments sometimes, I feel like I need a kleenex to wipe off all the snottiness on my screen. I'm still going to reserve my own judgement until I see the film. I love a lot of the so-called "lesser" films, such as Sword In The Stone, Atlantis, etc which apparently on that site automatically makes me have all my taste in my mouth.

Yeah, the lesser Disney films get no love there. Not even the better film gets respect. I mean they called Princess and the Frog the worst Disney film since TARZAN, and Tarzan was a pretty damn good movie, one that was very different, beautiful and powerful.

[jpanimation]

I mean they called Princess and the Frog the worst Disney film since TARZAN, and Tarzan was a pretty damn good movie, one that was very different, beautiful and powerful.

I'd mistake that intended insult as a compliment and get even more excited for the movie

I tend to agree with the people on Cartoon Brew (in fact, some of those complaints/reviews could easily be mistaken as mine lol), but I have to admit, the hate for Brother Bear on that site and Rotten Tomatoes is very curious. The couple of people dissing on Tarzan are even more so but everyone has different opinions and we all feel ours is right (in this case, I have to say they have poor tastes, which is just my opinion).

I tend to find Rotten Tomatoes a terrible judge of films as it gathers only positive and negatives, instead of the actual rating cumulative, and the final percentages are made up of a different number of reviews and different reviewers (way to many different conditions to properly compare films [which is one of the reasons I feel their recent best of Disney list is so disjointed]).

[PatrickvD]

Cartoon Brew is the Armond white of animation critics. If they despise it, you know it's good.

CB needs to just go away. You'd think they'd encourage and celebrate handdrawn animation. You know how many animators and artists worked their asses off for this? Any animation fan should support such dedication, regardless of wether or not it's the second coming of Beaty and the Beast. There've been a lot of critics who've said that this needs support in order for Disney to keep making them and hopefully make that true classic again one day. That's the reason why we should all support this. Isn't this what Disney is about?

Whose side are they really on? I hope they're happy with Shrek 4, Ice Age: Th4w and Cloudy with a chance of meatballs 2.

[IagoZazu]

I've never heard of that site, but I can sure imagine the type that dwell there.

If they like to bash Disney so much then why be an animation site anyway? It must be to them, garbage is good and gold bad. If they think Tpatf is horrible, then it must be fantastic! And if they say it's the worst Disney movie since Tarzan, it must be the best one since Tarzan!

They can harp and gripe, but I think Tarzan is awesome. It takes very hard work, tons of paper and pencils, and time to make any Disney hand-drawn movie. It won't matter to trolls what it took to make it, it's lousy pictures on a screen and not a moving work of art. Good thing we all have our own opinions so that way we don't think like them!

[2099net]

I've never heard of that site, but I can sure imagine the type that dwell there.

Well, regardless of who posts there, the site itself is co-owned/hosted by Jerry Beck and even Eric Goldberg is a honorary contributor with many blog posts. It's not as if its a site hosted by people with a chip on their shoulder or aimed at people with a chip on their shoulder.

If they like to bash Disney so much then why be an animation site anyway? It must be to them, garbage is good and gold bad. If they think Tpatf is horrible, then it must be fantastic! And if they say it's the worst Disney movie since Tarzan, it must be the best one since Tarzan!

But on the other hand, why give Disney a free pass. I can't speak for the publics comments posts, but I believe most of them will be people posting their true opinions (as I said, the site isn't aimed at the animation illiterate).

They can harp and gripe, but I think Tarzan is awesome.

So do I.

It takes very hard work, tons of paper and pencils, and time to make any Disney hand-drawn movie.

Just like many of those DTVs did (although, for the DTVs or Disney new animation films, I doubt much paper or many pencils are actually used these days). Yet few people here take time out to defend the DTV's artistry. In fact, most people here go out of their way to criticise them. Considering most DTVs had a fraction of the budget, and (presumably) a fraction of the time to create - some of the animators must have worked wonders - especially on some of the later, generally better recieved DTVs.

It won't matter to trolls what it took to make it, it's lousy pictures on a screen and not a moving work of art. Good thing we all have our own opinions so that way we don't think like them!

As I've pointed out, I doubt the typical Cartoon Brew reader is a troll.

I've not seen the film - but I will, but being in the UK and waiting for the home video release no doubt it will be mid-summer (or later) when I eventually do. But it's no secret I don't have much enthusiasm for the film. But who knows, I may be pleasantly surprised. But just to defend the film based on "If it doesn't do we, we may not get any more" seems a little hypocritical. While it was perhaps more of a foregone conclusion at the time, few people here defended Home on the Range hoping if it was successful it would green light more hand-drawn animation at Disney. Why should The Princess and the Frog be different?

[tsom]

The music from the first trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Woo5uLnoU

[estefan]

So, on Wednesday, The Princess and the Frog opened at #11 on the daily box-office charts. Which is pretty great, considering it's only on two screens (albeit, with $30 ticket prices, but that's still pretty great).

http://boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/?s ... -25&p=.htm

[Disney's Divinity]

I've never been to Cartoon Brew, but I agree with them on Tarzan --how was this one different again?--and especially Brother Bear . Maybe I should go visit now.

Anyway, I can also understand where their disdain for TP&TF is coming from. The commercials featuring Ray buzz-farting and the butler's backside inflating almost remind me of the HOTR commercials with the Rosanne-cow saying, "Yes, they're real" or the previously mentioned Treasure Planet commercials. I mean, the movie doesn't exactly glorify itself with commercials like that. I agree with 2099net that the movie shouldn't get a free pass from criticism.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Shall we go to Cartoon brew together Divinity? Can't say I'm enthralled with Tarzan or Brother Bear.

As for animated movies requiring hard work, I'm sure alot of effort went into the likes of Rock-a-Doodle, We're Back! etc. but the fact that they are terrible doesn't mean I should excuse them because of how much paper was used to make them.

If an animated movie is bad, it's bad. In fact it's even more insulting considering the amount of time it takes to develop one. If PatF is bad it will not get any free pass from me.

[PrincePhillipFan]

Anyway, I can also understand where their disdain for TP&TF is coming from. The commercials featuring Ray buzz-farting and the butler's backside inflating almost remind me of the HOTR commercials with the Rosanne-cow saying, "Yes, they're real" or the previously mentioned Treasure Planet commercials. I mean, the movie doesn't exactly glorify itself with commercials like that. I agree with 2099net that the movie shouldn't get a free pass from criticism.

I agree with you about that it shouldn't get a free pass either simply by being the new animation feature, but I think it's still best to reserve judgement until seeing it rather than watching the trailer. I admit myself that some of the moments with Ray have come off rather crude and groan worthy to me, but to those who have actually seen the film, people say he's a great character so who knows.

I will admit though that the Naveen rump expansion scene does make me giggle, mostly because my gf said it reminded her of my large tush. I have a really big bubble butt myself, so it's nice to see a Disney prince with a big rump like mine even if it's for a few seconds.

[IagoZazu]

Sorry about that, I got a little carried away for a minute there. Of course anyone can criticize it, everybody has an opinion. I just don't like it when someone thinks their opinion is fact. I haven't seen it yet, so maybe I should keep quiet until it comes. Maybe it's that I'm very excited to see it and I have good expectations. It's very hard to keep the hype down when people that saw the movie have praised it.

[pap64]

Since I am the one that brought the Cartoon Brew talk over I should explain myself...

First of all, I am NOT saying that the Princess and the Frog shouldn't be criticized. I am sure the film will have flaws, and when I do see it I will point them out here. What I am talking about is that some of the comments on the thread are negative for the sake of being negative, and some don't even plan on seeing the film, yet feel the need to criticize it based on trailers and screens. I also think its unfair to say the movie is worse than Tarzan or Brother Bear, two films I feel are very solid and don't deserve the bashing they get.

Jerry Beck, the owner of the site, actually loves the film and plans to support it, so all the comments come from the readers. The reason I bring this up is because of the same reason I brought the site up on the Christmas Carol thread: people seem to criticize the film for what it is rather for its worth. In other words, instead of giving the film a chance they just criticize it for the sake of doing it, giving the site an air of pretentiousness (which is, once again, not Jerry's fault).

Once more, I don't mean to say that the film shouldn't be criticized, just that it should be criticized in a fair manner without making any unfair comparisons.

[veu]

ColorsOfTheWind: could you tell me what is the humor in this movie? I hope it isn't Dreamworks humor with toilet humor or something like that...

Could you tell me something about Lawrence, Naveen's valet?

The humor, in my opinion, is fantastic! I was worried that it was going to be more aimed towards children because of Ray's lines in the commercials and such, but I was pleasantly surprised. There is so much humor in this movie for everyone. The entire theater, which was made up of mostly adults, was laughing. It's definitely not toilet humor

I'm afraid if I talk about Lawrence, I might give away plot spoilers! All I can really say is that, as Dr. Facilier notes, he's been pushed around all his life. Because of that, he's a bit hungry for some type of power and control. I can describe him further, but it might give away plot details I'm not sure you want to know. If you do want to know, however, I'm happy to tell you!

Thank you for the answer! I appreciate it.

I know something about Lawrence... yes, I'm curious to know more about him...

Thank you!

[ColorsOfTheWind]

Thank you for the answer! I appreciate it.

I know something about Lawrence... yes, I'm curious to know more about him...

Thank you!

No problem Minor spoilers:

Apparently, the fact that Lawrence becomes Naveen in disguise is common knowledge? I didn't know that people knew, so I guess it's not really a spoiler

But, here's how this all comes about, which I'm not sure people know, so I'm going to white it.

Lawrence makes a deal with Dr. Facilier to become Prince Naveen in disguise, which would ultimately grant Lawrence the power he wants by marrying Charlotte. He's really just a pawn in Dr. Facilier's evil plan, though. At one point, Lawrence does think twice about what he's doing, but ultimately his greed for power overcomes him.

I tried not to give TOO much away, so I hope that's efficient. If you want to know more, though, feel free to ask.

[Babaloo]

I've never heard of Cartoon Brew, but when the original post was made that they were bashing the movie, I thought it was critics who have seen the movie and just didn't like it. But hearing that these are people who haven't even seen the movie yet, really made me mad. I don't understand why people won't even go see the movie and give it a chance. And what's the most it's going to even hurt you to go...$8-$10 or $4 on discount days? I think people just always need to find something to complain about. Also I understand being 2d is no excuse for a free pass, but commercials are no excuse to bash a movie! I also thought that Ray's jokes on the commercials were also very crude.

I also agree that it's hard to not get excited for this movie because most people who have already seen it, liked it. And c'mon, this is Disney's first attempt are really trying to get back to its former glory. I liked many of Disney's movies in the 2000's (Lilo and Stitch and Treasure Planet among my favourites) but this seems like they're trying to go back to classic tales that made them so popular in the 90's. So I'm very excited to see this movie!

[2099net]

Since I am the one that brought the Cartoon Brew talk over I should explain myself...

First of all, I am NOT saying that the Princess and the Frog shouldn't be criticized. I am sure the film will have flaws, and when I do see it I will point them out here. What I am talking about is that some of the comments on the thread are negative for the sake of being negative, and some don't even plan on seeing the film, yet feel the need to criticize it based on trailers and screens. I also think its unfair to say the movie is worse than Tarzan or Brother Bear, two films I feel are very solid and don't deserve the bashing they get.

Well the purpose of a trailer is to "sell" a movie - its as simple as that. It's not unreasonable to expect a trailer to be the movie in microcosm. Being as I have little interest in the film, I've not even been paying attention to the US trailers. But if such footage exists, it must be in the film. So either

[a] It's a reasonably fair and balanced representation of the movie but the inclusion of such sequences either doesn't bother you (indeed you may actually like them)
or
It's a reasonably fair and balanced representation of the movie but you find the sequences distasteful and it puts you off the movie
or
[c] It's deliberately emphasising what some of us may class as "crude" in order to "trick" certain movie goers to see the film.

The criticism may not be accurate, but are I feel valid. If the trailer doesn't impress you, why would you even go to the movie in the first place. Theatre tickets aren't cheap these days (especially the Limited Release tickets!) In short, in the case of and [c], the trailer(s) have failed.

After all, I've seen loads of people criticise (for example) Dreamworks films on this forum based on trailers. And personally I'll criticise James Camaron's Avatar until the cows come home based on the trailers and every other single piece of information I've seen/heard/read about the movie!

Jerry Beck, the owner of the site, actually loves the film and plans to support it, so all the comments come from the readers. The reason I bring this up is because of the same reason I brought the site up on the Christmas Carol thread: people seem to criticize the film for what it is rather for its worth. In other words, instead of giving the film a chance they just criticize it for the sake of doing it, giving the site an air of pretentiousness (which is, once again, not Jerry's fault).

Once more, I don't mean to say that the film shouldn't be criticized, just that it should be criticized in a fair manner without making any unfair comparisons.

I know when I posted my post we were just talking about readers posting comments. But like I say, I doubt many of the readers of the blog are animation illiterate. I don't know if its pretension - although overtly harsh criticism of a movie you've not seen is certainly not a good idea.

I think some people deliberately try to fight against or some how cancel out the hype.

I know its a tendency I have - but I've often found myself overtly disappointed simply because films or TV cannot live up to the hype. A recent example was the last Doctor Who special on TV over here - The Waters of Mars which was hyped to the gills but left me somewhat indifferent when viewing it. But a second viewing, with the benefit of having several days before hand to digest what I saw, what my expectations were and what we actually got made me realise that what we got actually was special and actually was incredibly good.

I'm sure if The Princess and the Frog is a good film, it's legacy will live on well beyond its years, because people will see it for what it is and make their own minds up without, perhaps, feeling like they are being told what to think of it - to a certain extent all Disney's animated films have*, even two perceived "flops" like Treasure Planet and Brother Bear, both of which still did incredible numbers on home video and in the latter's case was more readily embraced outside America.

* Chicken Little still appears to be the exception that proves the rule in this example. But I like it. So there.