What's your religion?

[Siren]

I think you can certainly still consider yourself Christian. Agnostic at the very least.

And I agree, religion is twisted. It doesn't always make sense. How can so many religions be spawned from one book, and yet each of them say they are the REAL religion, and they all pick and choose what they like.

IMO, the best way to choose your beliefs is to choose your beliefs. Follow what feels right. Not what a group says, be it a church, a synagogue, a temple, or a coven. IMO, you don't NEED to be a part of a religious group to follow your beliefs. IMO, it doesn't matter what you call your deity, so long as you are a good person, you will go to Heaven/Summerland/etc. I know some religions say you HAVE to 100% accept their religion to get that golden ticket, but I can't believe so many good people who happen to be agnostic, Jewish, Hindu, Wiccan, atheist, etc don't get that same pass. Look at Mother Theresa, she questioned her faith, God was not 100% in her heart, she had her doubts, and yet, I am sure she ascended into a better place. There are millions of people who do good every day. They may be police officers, fire fighters, feed the hungry, save animals, protect children...simply are good people who have spent the better part of their lives doing good things. I can't believe they will go to Hell or nothingness because they don't accept a specific religion. I bet good Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, etc all go to the same place. I remember learning how people once said blacks don't go to Heaven. Many people know that thinking was wrong, so I don't see why the same thinking that because you aren't born again or because you are gay, you won't get into heaven is true. Its like I see those extreme Christians protesting at a gay soldier's funeral with signs of "Fags go to hell"...people like those...I think they are in for the shock of their lifetime, literally, when they see gays go to Heaven, and they don't get to.

In all, I wouldn't worry too deeply about a label for yourself. Just do what makes you feel right. Call yourself what makes you feel comfortable. Ignore everyone else.

[pap64]

Here's how I believe religion truly started...

In the beginning of time the ultimate deity and creator of the universe sent us a faith to follow, complete with a book that explained how to live life as a good person.

The people saw this book and this faith and were marveled by it. But when they tried to accept it...it confused them. There were so many stories, so many lessons and so many rules that it became an abstract thought for them. It became hard to follow that faith.

So what happened was that people created THEIR take on this new faith. Those that accepted it created their Church and gathered their followers. Those that didn't took what THEY understood and created THEIR church under THEIR faith. Others pretty much reworked the whole thing into something they could accept.

It's why there are so many religions under one God yet they all have different views on what is essentially the same thing. It's the only way to make sense of this religion fiasco.

[a-net-fan]

Pape64: Thanks for sharing. You know some ppl seem to believe that if your minister or priest says something ....it is absolute truth. In fact they are sharing their view and beliefs on the issue and it is up to you to filter it by meditating on it and choosing to accept it and reject it. If you reject their view that doesnt make the person or the entire religion and all its beliefs corrupt or anything like that. I feel as long as you pray for clarity and for God to guide your path in life and reveal to you his will and his truth for you in your life you will be fine.

I personally believe God has a different calling for each of us. For example if someone feels convicted to live the life of an Amish person and hold their faith and beliefs then that is what they should do. God didnt call me to that life....he had other plans for me. Just because his plans for me were different then that of an Amish man doesnt make their beliefs wrong....or mine wrong either. We are each living our lives the way we feel called to. That I believe is why Jesus said not to judge lest you be judged. Only God knows our hearts and we should all feel relieved to know that HE is in control. It is not our place to condemn anyone to hell and I dont feel anyone has the right to say who goes to heaven and who goes to hell with such certainty! haha If that is their belief and they share it then fine but just because they say it certainly doesnt make it so. If a person feels called by God to fast and do nothing on Saturday....thats great and they should do that. But if you dont feel the need or desire to do anything like that then I dont think there is a thing wrong with that. Just remember in the end its god and not Pastor Fred you have to answer to in the end. I know I keep saying it but I really feel this is the key....... As long as you sincerely seek Gods will for your life...let him guid your heart....and follow in the path he has set for you...you cant go wrong.

[Siren]

In all truth pap, that is exactly what happened. World religion started in one place and as tribes dispersed out of Africa and into Europe, Asia, and eventually the Americas, each tribe evolved their religious beliefs differently. And yet, bare bones, you see many religions have similarities. A powerful male god created all, often taking a wife, often having a child(ren) who are empowered with their father's supernatural powers. Jesus was the Son of God, yes, but compare him to men in other religions....he was a Demigod. A witch. If Jesus was an adult during the Inquisition, he would have been burned at the stake rather than nailed to a cross. Mary was no different than the mortal woman Alcmena who was impregnated by Zeus...both gave birth to powerful men who brought peace to a chaotic world, but only after they had to go through their own personal trials. All religions are inter-connected, just like all humans are. We all started at the same place, and all our religions sprung from one religion. If we stayed as one big tribe, instead of many little ones, we may still have had just one religion, we may still all look the same too. Diversity in our genes gave way to free thinking.

[blackcauldron85]

you were brought into a church family...and that family is there to help guide you and support you spiritually. When they see you behaving or engaging in activities that could harm you in your spiritual walk...... they are there to try to set you back on track. So yes...in the end it is your decision....but I disagree when you say that your life is nobody elses buisiness and nobody has the right to confront you when they see you going in a direction that isnt best for you.

It's one thing if you're overdosing on drugs all the time or something like that, but in any other case, they're really trying to set you back on their track, or the track they want you to be on. I can't stand it when people
(not just church family, but anyone) thinks they know what's best for you. I'm all for guidance, in the sense that I enjoy receiving and giving advice, but you have to live your own life, experiment, learn who you really are, and with other people interfering with what they think you should be, it's hard to branch out on your own and find the real you.

If you have a priest or minister pressuring you for money or making you feel obligated to give a certain amount of money... DONT GIVE IT!

I agree with that, but at my church, anyway, the money is used within the Body, as well as outside of it. There are a LOT of us at my church who are either unemployed or underemployed, so the money goes to a lot of them to help them get by. I don't have an income, but Bobby tithes every 2 weeks when he gets paid. Years ago, I thought it was kind of dumb, but now that a lot of us are unemployed, I know that every bit helps. And, I think the pastor said this before, that if you're not giving, why should we help you? It wasn't quite worded in that way, but that's my translation of it. At the same time, my church won't turn anyone away for financial help. But even given 25 cents a week, if that's all you can afford to give, shows that you care not only about yourself, but the others in the Body.

I am, technically, a Christian, because I was raised under said belief. BUT, I don't go to Church, I haven't been baptized and don't read the Bible at all. BUT despite this I still believe in God, I believe in Jesus, I believe in faith and most importantly prayer.

So what am I?

See, my issue with religion is that MAN has twisted it around so much that I honestly see most religion as foolish.

They manipulate people into their bidding, they create a sense of elitism in people and preach double standards.

Like, they teach you to love your fellow man, but turn them away if they disagree with your faith (homosexuality, different beliefs, walk of life etc.). I just don't agree with it.

Yes! I feel you on this. I can't stand the "elitism" as you put it. At my church, except for like 3 of us, to my knowledge, they think: Christian = Republican. And I think that that's not true at all. As I think I may have said earlier, I sometimes feel that my church isn't for me. I genuinely like the people, for the most part ("for the most part" meaning that there's not anyone that I don't like, but there are things that I don't see eye to eye with some on).

You are an atheist or you are not. I chose to believe in God, but I also chose to not pursue any religion because I believe man has skewed faith to the point of being a status rather than a way to make life better.

I think that this is perfectly fine. It's best to do what you feel is right for you than to just follow blindly because you're "supposed to".

[xxhplinkxx]

If you have a priest or minister pressuring you for money or making you feel obligated to give a certain amount of money... DONT GIVE IT!

Back when I was 17 and my parents were in denial with my being gay, they started dragging my sister and I to church. A Christian church too, which was odd considering my sister and I were both baptized Catholic, aaand.... the only time we ever went to church was for a wedding or a baptism.

But anyway, they made us go to church and every weekend my parents would donate $100 to the church. Such a waste if you ask me. But there was one particular weekend, after the donation basket had already gone around the pastor started complaining about how the community doesn't give to the church and whatnot towards the end of the service.

Now, this was a church who was really well off. And they would have 2 services a day and it would be filled with about 500 people. If every person in one service gave a dollar, they'd have $1,000 a day. So they made well over that with people like my parents who gave way more than just a dollar.

So that one day, he was complaining about that, and what does the mother f***er do? He has his people close the doors so people can't leave and passes the baskets around AGAIN. It was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my entire life. That greedy bastard already getting around $1,000 a day wasn't enough?? Are you kidding me?

So my point is... Crystal, wanna open our own church?? We'd be BANKING!

But seriously though, those people were disgusting and just one of the many reasons I hate church/organized religion and I hope to see them all in hell one day

[a-net-fan]

If you have a priest or minister pressuring you for money or making you feel obligated to give a certain amount of money... DONT GIVE IT!

Back when I was 17 and my parents were in denial with my being gay, they started dragging my sister and I to church. A Christian church too, which was odd considering my sister and I were both baptized Catholic, aaand.... the only time we ever went to church was for a wedding or a baptism.

But anyway, they made us go to church and every weekend my parents would donate $100 to the church. Such a waste if you ask me. But there was one particular weekend, after the donation basket had already gone around the pastor started complaining about how the community doesn't give to the church and whatnot towards the end of the service.

Now, this was a church who was really well off. And they would have 2 services a day and it would be filled with about 500 people. If every person in one service gave a dollar, they'd have $1,000 a day. So they made well over that with people like my parents who gave way more than just a dollar.

So that one day, he was complaining about that, and what does the mother f***er do? He has his people close the doors so people can't leave and passes the baskets around AGAIN. It was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my entire life. That greedy bastard already getting around $1,000 a day wasn't enough?? Are you kidding me?

So my point is... Crystal, wanna open our own church?? We'd be BANKING!

But seriously though, those people were disgusting and just one of the many reasons I hate church/organized religion and I hope to see them all in hell one day

Thanks for the story! See that is DUMB that anyone would do something like that. I have gone to two different churches my entire life (hardly missing a sunday or saturday) and on top of that visited a number of churches while away on vacation etc and I have never run across ANYTHING like that. The only thing close to that is sometimes there will be a seperate collection where they will collect a second time for a specific need......like a family who lost their home or for missions such as the food bank or womens shelters.

Speaking of..... we have spent a lot of time focusing on the negative aspects of religion....maybe its time to discuss some positive things about it and recognize the ways it has helped people and communities all over the world.

[Siren]

We can open The Church of Disney and charge people $75 to enter our gilded doors.

[Goliath]

My parents became disenchanted by the church when they started saying they expected a certain percentage of your income. It use to be, you give what you can. A dollar here and there...not $20, $50, $100...and for what? Only a fraction of that goes to local communities to help them. Most of that pays for the pretty things you see in the church. [...] God doesn't need you money, he only needs YOU.

Well, historically, that's the way it has always been with the church.

Have you ever wandered in a major European city (maybe you were there on vacation) and marveled at the enormous gothic or baroque cathedrals; how incredibly detailed and richly decorated they are? A pure worj of man's imagination and crafmanship? How much do you think it costed to build just one of those things? And who do you think paid for it? Sure the state would give a chunck of the money, but mostly the local citizens and peasants had to cough it up. And they gladly did it, because they were told to pay up or otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to hang out with Jesus in the afterlife. How many mouths do you think could have been fed instead with all that money? How many poor people could have helped? How many sick could've been cured? But no, the religious community set their priorities straight: build a cathedral first. And all the money that was not being used on the building went into the pockets of the clergy.

This is how it went even in the earliest of civilizations. Invent a number of gods, and persuade people (and if that doesn't work, order them) to give a part of their income to the temple and the clergy. And if you refuse, Ra or Horus or Zeus or Marduk will strike you with his rage...

[Cordy_Biddle]

I was raised in the Catholic school system, but I've never really been back to church since then. I'm secure enough in my faith that I really don't see the need to prove it by attending services.

[Goliath]

[I have a harder time justifying abortion. It is hard for me to understand how a Christian really can support what is in fact clear legalized murder. Unlike homosexuality, the only grey area I see is the long debated question....when does life begin. But to support an act that takes a life is very much against the basic beliefs of Christianity....that life is sacred...and should be protected.....especally the innocent and those who cant speak and defend themselves.

Well, I have read the Bible, and in the Old Testament, God doesn't show an awful lot of respect for life. It's anything but sacred... Unless it's about his "chose people", of course. Their lives are sacred. Others, not so much. Whole people and civilizations are wiped out because God told his "chosen people" it was alright. So when Christians use the Bible to condemn abortion, I find that a bit hypocritical.

When does life begin? When the foetus can live outside of the womb. If it can't survive, it's not life. Because it doesn't live. It dies. So I can't get too worked up about it. Christians opposing abortion or homosexuality is, in my opinion of course, another example of religion trying to control people at their core: their bodies. Trying to get control over the only thing that anyone truly "owns" and is their own.

[Goliath]

Here's how I believe religion truly started...

In the beginning of time the ultimate deity and creator of the universe sent us a faith to follow, complete with a book that explained how to live life as a good person. [...]

That's a pretty nice fairy tale.

God (or whatever you choose to call him/her/it) didn't write books. He wasn't an author. All religious writings we have found, dating back to the emergence of the first civilizations, were written by men. And for the first thousands of years that we have written evidence about, men didn't believe in just one God, but a whole range of Gods. There was one god for the sun, one god for the thunder, one god for the birth, one god for the oceans, etc. They were all invented because nobody knew anything, like, where the sun went at night etc. So they had to come up with an explanation and that's how they thought of gods. Because with gods, they could explain *everything*.

Have you ever studied ancient religions? If you do, you'll notice how similar their gods are. Sumerian gods resemble Babylonian gods. The Romans 'imported' the Greek gods and slapped a Latin name on them. And the Egyptians borrowed gods from Mesopotamia, and from time to time would add gods and drop gods from their own 'canon'. Because another people had a god that was a better explanation for things they didn't understand than the god they had dreamed up. So they ditched their own god added 'foreign' ones.

Even the religious writings aren't all that original. There's a lot of stuff in the Old Testament that are esentially recycled stories from older civilizations. The story of Noah's ark is a great example, because it's the exact same tale as the Sumerian epos of Gilgamesj and the Greek saga of Deucalion. All three stories feature a god who is disappointed by mankind, drowns them all in a flood, but saves one faithful man and his wife, who will repopulate the earth anew.

So it's really not a God who wrote all those stories, but men who constantly copied from previous civilizations what they liked, but they added their own twist to make it fit their specific conditions.

[a-net-fan]

Well, I have read the Bible, and in the Old Testament, God doesn't show an awful lot of respect for life. It's anything but sacred... Unless it's about his "chose people", of course. Their lives are sacred. Others, not so much. Whole people and civilizations are wiped out because God told his "chosen people" it was alright. So when Christians use the Bible to condemn abortion, I find that a bit hypocritical.

Not at all.......the people in Bible times faced the same things that we face today. There were people who threatened Gods chosen people and he protected them. War was ugly then and is ugly now but as we all know there is certainly a lot of evil in the world. So no it is not at all hypocritical for Christians to take a stand for the innocent life.

When does life begin? When the foetus can live outside of the womb. If it can't survive, it's not life. Because it doesn't live. It dies. So I can't get too worked up about it. Christians opposing abortion or homosexuality is, in my opinion of course, another example of religion trying to control people at their core: their bodies. Trying to get control over the only thing that anyone truly "owns" and is their own.

No, as a Christian I can assure you that nobody is trying to control what one does with their bodies.....as long as they dont take a life in the process.

As far as when life begins that is unknown but you would be way off if you think it begins at birth. This is truely amazing and its done by National Geographic. Watch and learn:

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[pap64]

Here's how I believe religion truly started...

In the beginning of time the ultimate deity and creator of the universe sent us a faith to follow, complete with a book that explained how to live life as a good person. [...]

That's a pretty nice fairy tale.

This is a pretty condescending comment, and I hope you didn't mean ill towards my person.

I am very well aware that current religion was forged by men. But what I am saying is that I BELIEVE (as in, what I personally think, which may be right or wrong) is that there was a cosmic event that inspired people to believe there's more to life than just being born, making babies and working till death. It's why religion is so messed up and confused because everyone is taking the same thing and applying it to their needs.

And a word of warning to EVERYONE here... I already stated that I HATE elitism in beliefs, and that includes atheism as well. You are free to believe anything and accept any faith because its YOUR life and YOU accept what makes you feel better. However, when you try hard to prove others wrong because YOU feel that YOUR faith is the best and that everyone should follow suit you are just proving my point that religion only exists to create a shallow elitist status that just make people think "My God is better than yours" or that "I am better than you because I don't believe in imaginary friends from the sky".

Sorry for the harshness, but I hate elitism in general, but I can't stand elitism due to faith, religion or beliefs. Simply because there will NEVER be anything that will give you a status to high that you will stop taking a piss or a crap, never get sick again or be immortal.

[Siren]

That's a pretty nice fairy tale.

This is a pretty condescending comment, and I hope you didn't mean ill towards my person.

I am very well aware that current religion was forged by men. But what I am saying is that I BELIEVE (as in, what I personally think, which may be right or wrong) is that there was a cosmic event that inspired people to believe there's more to life than just being born, making babies and working till death. It's why religion is so messed up and confused because everyone is taking the same thing and applying it to their needs.

And a word of warning to EVERYONE here... I already stated that I HATE elitism in beliefs, and that includes atheism as well. You are free to believe anything and accept any faith because its YOUR life and YOU accept what makes you feel better. However, when you try hard to prove others wrong because YOU feel that YOUR faith is the best and that everyone should follow suit you are just proving my point that religion only exists to create a shallow elitist status that just make people think "My God is better than yours" or that "I am better than you because I don't believe in imaginary friends from the sky".

Sorry for the harshness, but I hate elitism in general, but I can't stand elitism due to faith, religion or beliefs. Simply because there will NEVER be anything that will give you a status to high that you will stop taking a piss or a crap, never get sick again or be immortal.

I agree. If you look at ancient religions, you see story after story of either a god or his messengers being sent to earth to speak to the people. Of course mankind painted images on cave walls, etched pictures onto the pyramids, and wrote on parchment...but they wrote and drew what they did because of the events of a higher being descending from the heavens and speaking to the people. You hear these same stories from the Mayan to the Egyptians to the Mesopotamians. I have a hard time believe ALL those major religions all said their god(s) came from the heavens. With so many places a god could come from, why is it always, from above? Maybe because they once did show themselves. For whatever reason, be it free will or simply its not the right time, they don't now. Or when they do, its not a giant person surrounded by light floating above a city somewhere. Miracles still happen, powers are unseen, whatever god you believe in, you know its true. If you don't believe in a god, that's your business, but that doesn't mean we deserve to be belittled.

[pap64]

That's why I do believe in a cosmic force. It's just that people see that cosmic force in different ways. God, Alah, Buddha, Jehova. All of these entities might really be different names for the same being.

I believe because I've seen so many things happen that have no explanation. I've seen miracles happen. I believe we meet people because its our destinies to meet. I believe in that there's a grander mission in life than we realize. Life itself is one whole enigma that can be both great and terrible if you put your mind into it.

It's because of this that I've accepted the fact that people can have different beliefs because its a reflection of how they view life. You believe in God? Fine. You don't believe in God? That's fine, too. You believe in the spaghetti monster? Why not? It's something that gives your life a little meaning, and can be everything from depressing and scary to fun and whimsical.

The only thing that people should realize is that faith is a PERSONAL thing. Yes you can share it with people, yes you can defend it and yes you can even find people that share the same belief. But if you are trying to prove to everyone that your faith is the ultimate faith in the universe then it's no longer about figuring life out or giving it meaning, it's about giving yourself credit and making yourself look the best. In other words, being an elitist prick.

No matter what people choose to believe they should try and be respectful because if THEY want THEIR religion respected then they should respect others first and foremost. Respect is earned by giving respect.

[Siren]

This pretty much sums it up for me...

[Elladorine]

I've debated on answering this one, as I don't really know what I am and also realize that it can be a touchy subject for many, including myself.

My mom didn't talk much about religion as I was growing up, but my dad had strong beliefs and would occasionally bring the subject up. I once asked him why we never went to church, and he explained he'd had enough growing up, going 3-5 times a week, and that you didn't need to go to church to have a relationship with God.

I had a lot of unanswered questions at the age of 13, when one of my brothers was killed in a drinking and driving accident. He was only 19. I think I was hurt and angry with God for "letting" it happen, but you can't really blame the reasoning of a little girl that couldn't find a way to understand.

When my mom was diagnosed with cancer a few years later, she suddenly became very religious, following the teachings of Jehova's Witnesses (which was taking after her mother). I went to a few of those meetings, and felt that all they talked about was how much better Witnesses were than members of every other religion out there. It kinda disgusted me at the time actually, but I do try to be open-minded about these things.

Mom refused to take any blood transfers due to their beliefs that it was cannibalism. Not that it would have saved her . . .

*sigh*

That always bothered me. We were all exhausted and fighting to save her life, but in the end that decision was hers to make and something we had to respect.

When my dad was diagnosed with cancer about 6 years ago, I had the impression that he was at peace with God. And after he died, I remember sitting at the kitchen table with my remaining brother (who by that point had become a very religious Lutheran).

As we sat together discussing funeral arrangements, he informed me that there was no way Mom had made it to heaven. The teachings of Jehova's Witnesses were "wrong," she had supposedly done some horrible things in her life (?), and it was too bad that she was never a "happy enough" person (I guess one can't be "happy" unless they're following the "proper" religion). He then went on to tell me he was unsure if our brother had made it to heaven (hopefully the "ignorance of youth" was on his side), and that he figured that at least Dad had made it to heaven, despite the fact that he no longer went to church he at least held and carried out the beliefs he was "supposed to."

W . . . T . . . F . . .

I realized he was grieving over our father (which can admittedly do strange things to people), but what horrible things to say, especially at a time like that. I was grieving too, you know. He treated me horribly throughout that time period and used his religious beliefs to put me down as much as possible, as an excuse to go through and scrutinize my *private* belongings still stored at Dad's house. And I won't even get into the horrible accusations he made against me.

I was totally turned off from the church after that. I swear, everything between us was fine until he became so religious and began to judge everyone and everything around him but himself. And I realize that religion doesn't do that to all people, but so often I've seen it turn people into being self-important, judgmental, and elitist.

I do believe God exists. I believe that everyone has a place, and can do good on this earth. And most of all, I believe in the golden rule, to treat others as you wish to be treated. People can and should believe in God in their own way, or if they don't believe in a higher being, that's fine too. I think there's room for everything on this earth except the hatred. Who are any of us to judge? Who are we to say who can and can't go to heaven or why, or which religions are "right" or "wrong?" I think we need to be respectful of each other's beliefs and not force them down anyone's throats. The sooner we can learn to coexist, the better off we'll all be.

[Siren]

enigmawing, your story reminds me a bit of my father's side who are Witnesses. I was just a baby when I needed a blood transfusion. My mother put me in my crib to nap one day, a little bit later, something told her to check on me. When she did, I was blue and not breathing. We thankfully lived directly across the street from a fire station and they brought me back. Later it turned out, I had literally been a victim of SIDS and I am one of the very few people to have ever suffered from it and lived. But it opened a whole world of new problems. Anemia, and I had somehow come in contact with a very potent strain of E.Coli. I was living in a bubble at the hospital. Slightly off topic, but a baby orangutan was in the bubble-crib next to mine, there from a local zoo who needed a natal unit to help care for it. Maybe that's where my love for animals started lol, but back to it. The doctors pretty much said, my blood was bad, it was slowly poisoning my organs. So they got me a blood transfusion. For 6 years, I never met my father's side. They shunned my parents for having the doctor's save my life!!! I could never, ever be part of a religion that dictates what kind of medical care you are allowed to have and give to your children, especially when it saves their lives. I have a lot of respect for many religions, but not that one, same with Scientology. Any religion that would rather see someone die then get perfectly good medical treatment is no better than a cult IMO. I'm here because of someone out there took the time to eat some crackers and give part of themself to me, so I can live.

[Elladorine]

Siren- Wow. You know, it's one thing for an adult to make a choice for him or herself, but another thing altogether to make the decision of letting a child die. Un-freaking-believable that they held a grudge over your life being saved.

When it comes to blood transfusions and organ donations, as long as the donor is willing, I don't see how it could possibly be a problem. I'm an organ donor myself; if something happens to me, why not give someone else a chance to live with any parts I'll no longer need?