Beauty And The Beast: Diamond Edition Discussion Oct. 5th!

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:30 pm

As much money as they spent on B&TB in 3d why wouldnt they do everything they could to make profit from that? it'll be in theaters for a couple weeks and bam, its over. they need to find a way to get more of it back. And it'll be revolutionary as opposed to turning an already 3d movie into 3d by rendering the other eye.

CampbellzSoup · Post by **CampbellzSoup** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:04 pm

How do we even know that the colors were originally how the creators even wanted them? Wasn't Beauty and the Beast rused out the door? Obvioulsy you can see that as the animation in some areas is really rusty so perhaps they saw the film, and thought the IMAX version is what they intended for the audience to see and not the rush job that went out.

goofystitch · Post by **goofystitch** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:16 pm

CampbellzSoup wrote:How do we even know that the colors were originally how the creators even wanted them? Wasn't Beauty and the Beast rused out the door? Obvioulsy you can see that as the animation in some areas is really rusty so perhaps they saw the film, and thought the IMAX version is what they intended for the audience to see and not the rush job that went out.

That's a really good point. So many people on here are quick to point out that this isn't how it was originally shown, but no one ever stopped to think if the current way isn't how they actually wanted it. It is true that Beauty and the Beast was rushed to make it's deadline, hence some scenes with less than perfect animation. It is possible that had they been given more time in post production, they would have adjusted the colors to the way they are currently.

And regardless, it's still the same great film. Do the colors actually bother anyone so much that it prevents their enjoyment of it? It's like watching Disney films that haven't been restored. They are still great films even with all of the dust and fading that has occurred over the years.

Cordy_Biddle · Post by **Cordy_Biddle** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:22 pm

Nothing short of complete anihilation would stop me from enjoying my favourite Disney movies.

jpanimation · Post by **jpanimation** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:35 pm

goofystitch wrote:Do the colors actually bother anyone so much that it prevents their enjoyment of it? It's like watching Disney films that haven't been restored. They are still great films even with all of the dust and fading that has occurred over the years.

Nope, not if I don't pay for it. If I pay for a movie, I want it to be perfect, and it would bother me every time I watched it if something was wrong. If I rented from the library, borrowed, or caught it on TV then the colors wouldn't distract me because I'd know I didn't just shell out money for it.

I guess I'm just really careful with my money, as I don't have much, and want it to only be spent on the highest caliber products. Spending money I really don't have on a product I'm not entirely satisfied with would distract me, no matter how good the movie is (I bought the Searchers and am still bothered by the unnatural colors).

nomad2010 · Post by **nomad2010** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:18 pm

jpanimation wrote:
goofystitch wrote:Do the colors actually bother anyone so much that it prevents their enjoyment of it? It's like watching Disney films that haven't been restored. They are still great films even with all of the dust and fading that has occurred over the years.
Nope, not if I don't pay for it. If I pay for a movie, I want it to be perfect, and it would bother me every time I watched it if something was wrong. If I rented from the library, borrowed, or caught it on TV then the colors wouldn't distract me because I'd know I didn't just shell out money for it.

I guess I'm just really careful with my money, as I don't have much, and want it to only be spent on the highest caliber products. Spending money I really don't have on a product I'm not entirely satisfied with would distract me, no matter how good the movie is (I bought the Searchers and am still bothered by the unnatural colors).

I have to agree. Even if the IMAX colors were the intended colors, it's obvious that the darker, richer colors look better. They add much more depth.

And just a note on the whole "maybe that's how they wanted it but never got to it thing.."... why in the world would they have an incorrect version in all the trailers then? they have the caps files. it's obvious something fishy is going on with the caps.. we'll probably never know what is the intended look of the film, but I can tell you that in all promotional posters Belle's hair was BROWN not RED. hmm.. pretty easy to figure that out.. not to mention that the color brown is pretty much non existent in the Imax print. Look at anything brown, from Belle's hair to Cogsworth, to the chair Belle sits on, or the Beasts fur... everything has red it in.. brown doesn't exist... at least not what I consider brown.. which is when brown is brown. it's pretty hard to not realize they messed with it.

goofystitch · Post by **goofystitch** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:34 pm

nomad2010 wrote:And just a note on the whole "maybe that's how they wanted it but never got to it thing.."... why in the world would they have an incorrect version in all the trailers then? they have the caps files. it's obvious something fishy is going on with the caps.. we'll probably never know what is the intended look of the film, but I can tell you that in all promotional posters Belle's hair was BROWN not RED. hmm.. pretty easy to figure that out.. not to mention that the color brown is pretty much non existent in the Imax print. Look at anything brown, from Belle's hair to Cogsworth, to the chair Belle sits on, or the Beasts fur... everything has red it in.. brown doesn't exist... at least not what I consider brown.. which is when brown is brown. it's pretty hard to not realize they messed with it.

So you are saying that in these screencaps that I just took from the 2002 DVD of the film, Belle's hair is not brown?

The colors are certainly lighter than what they were in 1992, but it's not as drastic as her hair color being changed. None of the browns look red to me the way you say you see them. Brown also looks pretty brown here:

But maybe you learned to color with a different set of crayons than I did...

Cordy_Biddle · Post by **Cordy_Biddle** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:39 pm

Someone's opening a can of worms. BTW, goofystitch, I completely agree with the hair colour. It's only in the ball scene, as far as I'm aware, that her hair starts bordering on red (or if we're being picky, auburn).

Elladorine · Post by **Elladorine** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:43 pm

If her hair seems any redder, it's because everything in the rest of the frames are as well; in relation it's still brown. Personally the color change doesn't really bother me.

goofystitch · Post by **goofystitch** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:57 pm

enigmawing wrote:If her hair seems any redder, it's because everything in the rest of the frames are as well; in relation it's still brown. Personally the color change doesn't really bother me.

Exactly. I'm not saying that the film wasn't altered, but I don't see it as a big deal. Especially because the originally filmmakers were involved and approved of the changes.

In light of Dick Cook's recent removal from Walt Disney Studios, many are comparing it to when Eisner fired Katzenberg and started overseeing the animated films himself. Who's to say they didn't make the film with a brighter palette only to have an executive say "tone the colors down to make it appeal to adults"? After all, Beauty and the Beast was heavily marketed to adults and the WIP version was screened for adults only. So when Don Hahn oversaw the changes for the IMAX version, who is to say that this isn't the way the film was meant to be all along?

Elladorine · Post by **Elladorine** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:22 am

goofystitch wrote:Exactly. I'm not saying that the film wasn't altered, but I don't see it as a big deal. Especially because the originally filmmakers were involved and approved of the changes.

In light of Dick Cook's recent removal from Walt Disney Studios, many are comparing it to when Eisner fired Katzenberg and started overseeing the animated films himself. Who's to say they didn't make the film with a brighter palette only to have an executive say "tone the colors down to make it appeal to adults"? After all, Beauty and the Beast was heavily marketed to adults and the WIP version was screened for adults only. So when Don Hahn oversaw the changes for the IMAX version, who is to say that this isn't the way the film was meant to be all along?

Exactly! There are so many possible reasons behind why the colors have been altered and we have no way in this moment to know for sure which set was the original intention.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:30 am

Heh, allow me to be the third to exclaim the word "Exactly!".

If they changed the color here its because its makes sense. this is what the color brown should look like in a room that brightly lit.
You might as well complain about them making characters skin turn blue during night scenes.

Cordy_Biddle · Post by **Cordy_Biddle** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:35 am

Short of strapping Wise and Trousdale to the rack and demanding a concerete explanation; I can't see this argument ever ending. Worse than Christmas with my family...

Tyler342814 · Post by **Tyler342814** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:43 am

I'm pretty sure Disney cut the Platinum Line. All 14 movies from the Platinum Line have been move to the Diamond Line.

Just.A.Friend · Post by **Just.A.Friend** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:33 am

Tyler342814 wrote:I'm pretty sure Disney cut the Platinum Line. All 14 movies from the Platinum Line have been move to the Diamond Line.

The Platinum Line will remain... just the previous Platinum Editions will just be promoted to Diamond in their new releases. Things like Alice in Wonderland and Dumbo are rumored to be new Platinum Editions.

CampbellzSoup · Post by **CampbellzSoup** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:00 am

Just.A.Friend wrote:
Tyler342814 wrote:I'm pretty sure Disney cut the Platinum Line. All 14 movies from the Platinum Line have been move to the Diamond Line.
The Platinum Line will remain... just the previous Platinum Editions will just be promoted to Diamond in their new releases. Things like Alice in Wonderland and Dumbo are rumored to be new Platinum Editions.

Do you have a quote/article? I clearly remember Disney promotion in their last press release Fantasia as a Diamond Edition despite it never comng out for the Platinum Line.

goofystitch · Post by **goofystitch** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:45 am

Disney hasn't actually announced the death of the Platinum Editions, but they have released more information about the Diamond Editions. Here is a quote from the press release:

The new Blu-ray Diamond Collection represents The Walt Disney Studio’s most prestigious animated classics. The Blu-ray Diamond Edition Discs will be comprised of 14 of Walt Disney’s most treasured animated classic titles to be released through 2016. These titles represent the highest level of picture and sound, feature groundbreaking, state-of-the-art immersive bonus content, and include unprecedented levels of interactivity, personalization and customization, only made possible by Blu-ray technology.

What this basically says is that the Diamond Editions will be Blu-Ray only and that their release strategy includes 2 titles a year (three in 2010) and will continue through 2016. That doesn't mean that these films won't be released on DVD, but that they won't carry the Diamond banner. The line will recycle all of the Platinum Editions except for Aladdin, which is rumored to have been dropped and replaced by Fantasia 2000.

Here is the tentative release schedule. The first three are guaranteed and the rest are my estimate based on how they did the Platinum Editions:

Snow White - Fall 2009
Fantasia/Fantasia 2000 - Spring 2010
Beauty and the Beast - Fall 2010
Bambi - Spring 2011
The Lion King - Fall 2011
Lady and the Tramp - Spring 2012
Cinderella - Fall 2012
Peter Pan - Spring 2013
The Little Mermaid - Fall 2013
101 Dalmatians - Spring 2014
The Jungle Book - Fall 2014
Pinocchio - Spring 2015
Sleeping Beauty - Fall 2015

nomad2010 · Post by **nomad2010** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:51 pm

I'm not saying all scenes are edited as much as others.. the ballroom scene is the biggest one to me.. this is the chair i'm talking about..

THE CHAIR:

It's clearly red, but look at the Imax trailer or the vhs cap and it's BROWN.

DEPTH:
check out how much richer the colors are in the version of it.. and how much more depth the animation had...

IMAX TRAILER FROM OTHER COUNTRY:

this video is incredible quality and the colors are astonishing. it is the same one posted earlier but much better quality and really shows what the film could look like. the only odd thing about it is that the beast's coat is extremely bright.. it's not the rich, deep blue we've seen in all other versions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiQTo7k_mIU

then are these demonstrations:

or here

then there is this music video which makes this even more confusing.. the colors appear to be almost exactly the same as the dvd transfer but yet the reds are calmed down.. aka belle's hair is deep brown in the ballroom scene and etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yqENGJu ... dded#t=132

now in this video look at the sky in the background of the ballroom scene and compare it to the other captures from the dvd..

and last but not least the yellow...

Now after doing some more research there is definite artifacts of overplay on the vhs's. but vhs's fade.. the don't however change hue...

DisneyPrincessSyndrome · Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:18 pm

Hi, I'm Ellie! I'm new here and I thought I'd post here because BatB is my favorite Disney movie because according to my mother, it was the first movie she and my dad bought for me on VHS (I wasn't born when the movie was in theatres). I was only about...nine when the PE came out and everything and I saw it in IMAX for my birthday that year. I was really pissed that we came in late (Maurice was in the forest), but I thought it looked beautiful. I was still naive when the DVD came out, and it took me a good couple of years before I figured it out that the new saturation was sucky. I'm hoping that the Diamond Edition for next year will be the TRUE theatrical version, but if you guys know the stuff that they did to Sleeping Beauty last year, you know that it will probably be butchered further.

And I don't know how many of you go to the Walt Disney Pictures site, but I do and if you look at the scrolling thing for the theatrical release dates up until about next year, you'll see that BatB will come back on Feb. 12, just in time for Valentine's Day! I was hoping for my birthday again, but I can handle having a Valentine's family outing. And secondly, am I the only person pissed that they replace the old blue Walt Disney Pictures opening with the new 3-D castle opening in ALL the classics now (watch the Sleeping Beauty and 101 Dalmations PE DVDs if you don't know)? I'm amazed no one has started a rant about that, because I will happily volunteer. I don't mind using it on all the new releases or even on the opening of the DVDs (right before the previews roll), but not on the movie itself! Poor Walt must be rolling in his grave.

http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/index.html

And I can promise you that if I bash anything in this thread, it will be Disney and their cheap and lying and greedy selves.

singerguy04 · Post by **singerguy04** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:31 pm

Welcome to UD DisneyPrincessSyndrome!

Well, as far as the new opening castle, I don't think the majority of us mind the new logo. I for one love it! The studio has been updating and changing their opening logos ever since the beginning, and this new one isn't anything more than the studio updating a look. I'm also pretty sure that Walt didn't design the blue castle opening or even know of it's existence since he would have died before it's creation. That being said, i doubt he'd be rolling in his grave over this.

It seems that your wish of the original theatrical version colors being restored will not be coming true any time soon. For more information on that I'd suggest checking out the many pages of debate in this tread as well as any other thread that mentions Beauty and the Beast since this topic always comes up.

DVDizzy Forum

Latest Movie Reviews

🎬 DVDizzy Top Stories️️

Beauty And The Beast: Diamond Edition Discussion Oct. 5th!