Batman Begins 3 Possibly 2011 and discussion of villains

[lord-of-sith]

I'm surprised Burton was dropped too since Returns was the 3rd biggest money maker of it's year earning more than double it's production budget in it's domestic release alone. However it may have been due to anger over losing the McDonald's promotion and any kind of additional revenue from kiddie marketing gimmicks.

Batman Forever, despite begin awful, was the 2nd biggest money maker of it's year and very kid friendly.

This is all true and very note-worthy, but let us not forget what was the largest money maker by a long shot last year...

[2099net]

Mamma Mia?

[Flanger-Hanger]

Mamma Mia?

Naw, The Love Guru!

[jeremy88]

I would like to see Catwoman or Poison Ivy in the next Batman movie. Particularly Catwoman, since Selina Kyle is one of Bruce Waynes love interests, the whole "my love is my enemy" theme is always a really good one. Though I don't think its going to happen...BOO! Guess it wouldn't really work too well anyway with the loss of Racheal Dawes and how her character affected Bruce in the Dark Knight. Harley Quinn is definitely one of my favorite characters in the Animated Series but I don't think her character would work well with out the Joker if they decide not to cast a replacement for the role Heath Ledger made phenomenal. Of course her and Ivy ALWAYS make an amazing duo. Though the Riddler isn't really one of my favorite Batman Villains, I could see Mr. Nygma working well in Nolan's Batman universe.

[dvdjunkie]

Since Christopher Nolan has washed his hands of this franchise, partly due to the death of Heath Ledger, I think that if they want to continue the quality and style of "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight", they need to turn to a director like Guillermo Del Toro, who I think would carry the torch very wisely and very well. We will have to see where all this goes, but for now you can forget about a Batman III from Christopher Nolan.

[Beast_enchantment]

I think Catwoman would be a mistake for the next movie. Yes, she is one of the most enticing of the batman villains, and my personal favourite from the movies but if she were to appear in another batman film everyone would compare the actress's performance with Michelle Pfeiffer's. She is the quintessential Catwoman (to me anyway) and no one could do that character anymore justice. Take the travesty that was Halle Berry for instance - enough said.

Pfeiffer has expressed her excitement in reprising her role if possible, http://sify.com/movies/hollywood/fullst ... d=14896424 but that would just be a bit - erm...silly.

The same with Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy - unmistakably from the worst of the batman movies (I mean just terrible), but Thurman was wonderful in that role.

[Mooky]

Well, as much as people like to point otherwise when trashing Berry's Catwoman, Michelle Pfeiffer's (or better yet, Tim Burton's) Catwoman wasn't very faithful to the comics either - Catwoman was never a psychotic magical being brought back to life by cats, she's a cat burglar slash thrill-seeker. And I say this as a huge fan of Pfeiffer's Catwoman and Batman Returns in general.

Anyway, I'd like to see Nolan's take on her, it's just that I have this problem with his bat-verse, or the lack of fantasy elements in it. But I guess that's why Catwoman would be a perfect fit there. If she's included in the next Batman movie, and even though there's this huge campaign to get Angelina Jolie on board, I reckon Winona Ryder would make a good Selina too.

And the less said about Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy the better.

Speaking of which, I don't think any Batman movie ever captured the true essence of bat-world (both characters and stories) like The Animated Series did. That was a perfect blend of fantasy and realism.

Pfeiffer has expressed her excitement in reprising her role if possible, http://sify.com/movies/hollywood/fullst ... d=14896424 but that would just be a bit - erm...silly.

That's just ... I guess now that Batman's cool again she wants to return to the franchise. Well, too late, Michelle, you missed your boat when you declined to reprise the role in the spin-off .

She is the quintessential Catwoman (to me anyway) and no one could do that character anymore justice.

People have said the same thing about Nicholson's Joker and look how that turned out .

[Disney-Fan]

Since Christopher Nolan has washed his hands of this franchise, partly due to the death of Heath Ledger

He was quoted saying otherwise.
The fact that he hasn't jumped aboard the Batman 3 train like everyone wants him to is for the exact same reason he didn't do it between Begins and Knight. Smaller, dare I say, easier projects are also on his list of things to accomplish. Not just fan-pleasing sequels.

[2099net]

Well, as much as people like to point otherwise when trashing Berry's Catwoman, Michelle Pfeiffer's (or better yet, Tim Burton's) Catwoman wasn't very faithful to the comics either - Catwoman was never a psychotic magical being brought back to life by cats, she's a cat burglar slash thrill-seeker. And I say this as a huge fan of Pfeiffer's Catwoman and Batman Returns in general.

Although, the original Catwoman was an air stewardess who turned to crime after damaging her head in an air crash. Not that far removed from Burton's Batman Returns Catwoman. In fact, you could argue the two are very similar; both had meek, subservient jobs and both changed their personality to become more independent and dominant after trauma. BTW, I never assumed Selena was dead in Batman Returns, so I never assumed she was brought back to life. Rather, it was just a botched murder attempt caused by her fluke fall.

(Although it looks like this was retconned out - even in the 1950s or 1960s according to Wikipedia)

Batman #62 revealed that Catwoman (after a blow to the head jogged her memory) is an amnesiac flight attendant, who had turned to crime after suffering a prior blow to the head during a plane crash she survived (although in the final issue of The Brave and the Bold, she admits that she made up the amnesia story because she wanted a way out of the past life of crime).

Anyway, I'd like to see Nolan's take on her, it's just that I have this problem with his bat-verse, or the lack of fantasy elements in it. But I guess that's why Catwoman would be a perfect fit there. If she's included in the next Batman movie, and even though there's this huge campaign to get Angelina Jolie on board, I reckon Winona Ryder would make a good Selina too.

I honestly don't think a woman criminal would fit into this Batman story. I think, it could potentially be a total disaster. Nolan was never interested in telling Batman stories, he simply wanted to tell crime stories, and worked elements from Batman comics into them. Some how, I think Nolan would have been better off making Michael Mann type films based on his ideas. I think the Batman Begins universe is far to bleak and negative and dark for a woman criminal lead.

And the less said about Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy the better.

Actually, Uma was good, with what she was given. I think if Burton continued to make the Batman films and cast Uma, she would be sensational.

Speaking of which, I don't think any Batman movie ever captured the true essence of bat-world (both characters and stories) like The Animated Series did. That was a perfect blend of fantasy and realism.

Well, I'm not sure about that. The Animated series still had Clayface and an much more monster than man Killer Croc. A little too fantasy.

I actually think Burton nailed the Bat-world. I have issues with him choosing Nickleson as the Joker in the first film, but I don't mind Jack Napier becoming the Joker because of Batman like some people do (its sort of similar to The Man in the Red Hood).

But Batman Returns totally nailed it for me. The eccentric personalities (don't forget Max Shrek was a totally original creation and fits into the Ba-world perfectly), hints of over the top campiness (Penguin using Penguins with bombs, his giant rubber duck, putting together shredded documents from the sewers), a soap like melodrama (Bruce and Selina), all wrapped up with spectacular action, and some really quite horrible and horrific ideas.

I know some people don't like campiness, and especially hate the 1960's TV series which played it up. But people - we're talking about a vigilante who dresses as a bat. There's always going to be some campiness there. It's there in the comics - even the hard hitting ones like Long Halloween. The whole concept of Batman is slightly camp. His well-known themed villains are even more camp. That's why its a mistake to present it as close to realism as possible.

[Beast_enchantment]

I actually think Burton nailed the Bat-world. I have issues with him choosing Nickleson as the Joker in the first film, but I don't mind Jack Napier becoming the Joker because of Batman like some people do (its sort of similar to The Man in the Red Hood).

But Batman Returns totally nailed it for me. The eccentric personalities (don't forget Max Shrek was a totally original creation and fits into the Ba-world perfectly), hints of over the top campiness (Penguin using Penguins with bombs, his giant rubber duck, putting together shredded documents from the sewers), a soap like melodrama (Bruce and Selina), all wrapped up with spectacular action, and some really quite horrible and horrific ideas.

I know some people don't like campiness, and especially hate the 1960's TV series which played it up. But people - we're talking about a vigilante who dresses as a bat. There's always going to be some campiness there. It's there in the comics - even the hard hitting ones like Long Halloween. The whole concept of Batman is slightly camp. His well-known themed villains are even more camp. That's why its a mistake to present it as close to realism as possible.

I agree completely. Burton's vision of Batman conveys quite accurately the fantasy element that exists in the comics, but is sorely lacking in the Nolan films. Burton has always been a favourite director of mine and Breturns is by far the best batman movie in existence. And, yes it is camp but, like you said the original source is full of campness. But there's the sinister element that is pulled off fantastically by burton. His vision of Catwoman's suit is extremely dark and surreal. All I can say is he loves his stitches, lol. Not to mention the foreboding score by Danny Elfman. Elfman's score and Burton's imagery are and have always been made for eachother.
Though the new films are excellent, they would be flawless if a little bit of Burton was injected into them.

[Mooky]

BTW, I never assumed Selena was dead in Batman Returns, so I never assumed she was brought back to life. Rather, it was just a botched murder attempt caused by her fluke fall.

But don't forget her surviving being shot 3 or 4 times from close range and then surviving electrocution. Smells like cat-magic to me .

I think the Batman Begins universe is far to bleak and negative and dark for a woman criminal lead

See, I wouldn't make her a criminal lead, she’d serve the same purpose as Catwoman in Batman Returns, with more hints of grey in her character and minus the psychosis. There'd be another real villain, Riddler or Black Mask perhaps. Especially now that Rachel Dawes is dead, they've run out of female characters, and the marketing for this type of films demands a female character.

Nolan was never interested in telling Batman stories, he simply wanted to tell crime stories, and worked elements from Batman comics into them. Some how, I think Nolan would have been better off making Michael Mann type films based on his ideas.

That’s precisely how I feel. Otherwise, what’s the point in having a man dress up as a bat if everyone else is "normal"?

Actually, Uma was good, with what she was given. I think if Burton continued to make the Batman films and cast Uma, she would be sensational.

Eh… Maybe… She was a poor man's Catwoman from Batman Returns to me – a timid woman wronged by her boss turns into a lethal femme fatale. I hated how all Batman villains had pretty much the same personality in the old franchise – crazy, demented, over-the-top. It just got repetitive after Batman Returns. Whatever happened to quiet, silent, truly menacing villains? Nolan at least changed that pattern a bit.

The Animated series still had Clayface and an much more monster than man Killer Croc. A little too fantasy.

Yes… But I meant, the series as a whole wasn't ashamed of its origins, you had both crime stories about that whole Gotham's mobster milieu and adventure stories about superpowered villains. That's why it's a perfect blend of Burton's and Nolan's bat-universes. For me, at least.

I actually think Burton nailed the Bat-world. I have issues with him choosing Nickleson as the Joker in the first film, but I don't mind Jack Napier becoming the Joker because of Batman like some people do (its sort of similar to The Man in the Red Hood).

But Batman Returns totally nailed it for me. The eccentric personalities (don't forget Max Shrek was a totally original creation and fits into the Ba-world perfectly), hints of over the top campiness (Penguin using Penguins with bombs, his giant rubber duck, putting together shredded documents from the sewers), a soap like melodrama (Bruce and Selina), all wrapped up with spectacular action, and some really quite horrible and horrific ideas.

I know some people don't like campiness, and especially hate the 1960's TV series which played it up. But people - we're talking about a vigilante who dresses as a bat. There's always going to be some campiness there. It's there in the comics - even the hard hitting ones like Long Halloween. The whole concept of Batman is slightly camp. His well-known themed villains are even more camp. That's why its a mistake to present it as close to realism as possible.

I agree completely. Burton's vision of Batman conveys quite accurately the fantasy element that exists in the comics, but is sorely lacking in the Nolan films. Burton has always been a favourite director of mine and Breturns is by far the best batman movie in existence. And, yes it is camp but, like you said the original source is full of campness. But there's the sinister element that is pulled off fantastically by burton. His vision of Catwoman's suit is extremely dark and surreal. All I can say is he loves his stitches, lol. Not to mention the foreboding score by Danny Elfman. Elfman's score and Burton's imagery are and have always been made for eachother.
Though the new films are excellent, they would be flawless if a little bit of Burton was injected into them.

Agreed and agreed, especially with the bolded parts.

[2099net]

BTW, I never assumed Selena was dead in Batman Returns, so I never assumed she was brought back to life. Rather, it was just a botched murder attempt caused by her fluke fall.

But don't forget her surviving being shot 3 or 4 times from close range and then surviving electrocution. Smells like cat-magic to me .

Yeah. I forgot about the shootings, but the electrocution I always assumed was the rubber (?) cat-suit protecting her to a certain amount. And going back to realism, her on-screen longevity was not far removed from how she could have been presented in a comic story.

[dvdjunkie]

I would not be holding my breath for a Batman III at this point. There has been no talk about it, just rumours, and despite what some people say, Christopher Nolan has said numerous times that it will be hard for him to the next Batman movie because he has so much planned for the Joker and it was cut short by Heath Ledger's death. He has said in Variety magazine (December 2008) that he would probably do another Batman movie but not for some time to come. I think we need to leave him alone, and quite spreading untruths about the future of the Batman franchise. I wold rather wait for another two or three years and have a really good third installment, than have a rush to the screen version in the next 12 months or so.

Christopher Nolan has raised the bar awfully high for the next installment, and believe me he will not let us down, if he chooses to be involved in it. But I will wait for "HIS" official announcement that Batman III is in the works before I get all excited about what actor is going to play what villain, or villainess.

[Jack Skellington]

I reckon Winona Ryder would make a good Selina.

Considering that shop-lifting incident that ruined her career, I'm gonna say that she'd make a good Catwoman too.

[Mooky]

, true!

[KubrickFan]

Since Christopher Nolan has washed his hands of this franchise, partly due to the death of Heath Ledger, I think that if they want to continue the quality and style of "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight", they need to turn to a director like Guillermo Del Toro, who I think would carry the torch very wisely and very well. We will have to see where all this goes, but for now you can forget about a Batman III from Christopher Nolan.

Warner gave Nolan a 100 million dollar budget on his next film Inception, which would prove that they really want to make him comfortable. Plus he could have a lot of money for the third part, and a lot of free reign as well. Nolan knows that too, obviously.
Christopher Nolan has always said it was about the story for him, not the necessity of a third part. I think it will happen. There's plenty of interesting things to do with Batman on the run, I would think.
And Guillermo del Toro is not only a totally different filmmaker from Christopher Nolan (he has more in common with Tim Burton actually) but he's also working on The Hobbit movies. So he will be busy for some time.

[Super Aurora]

I'd love to see Mr. Freeze...done right. Arnold was actually a good Mr. Freeze, when he was serious. It was Joel F***maker's craptacular script and gags that ruined it. But when Mr. Freeze was with his wife, he was Mr. Freeze. He played him fine then. If Nolan was doing the film back then, I bet Arnold would have played Mr. Freeze spot-on. But I wouldn't want to see Arnold come back as Mr. Freeze certainly now. Too much bad publicity with that one. But Nolan adapting Mr. Freeze would be a beautiful thing.

Mr. Freeze has always been a dark and tragic villain. Sub-Zero did a pretty good adaptation of Mr. Freeze.

No, before bruce Timm's animated series, Mr. Freeze was mostly a joke character. Was even called Mr. Zero before the Adam West batman series changed it to Mr. Freeze This is why fans of Batman love Heart of Ice episode from the animated series so much and was one of the series' highlighted episodes.

Sub-Zero isn't an adaption. It's a continuation to the animated series where the episode Deep Freeze left off.

I actually think Burton nailed the Bat-world.

I totally agree with you on that. One of the major elements I love about Burton's Batman is the city. The city was like a character of it's own. The animated series was partly inspired by it(as well as Dave and Matt Fleashier's Superman). That's Gotham City. The Nolan's Gotham City felt just like a generic city. You can hardly tell it's Gotham City.

(don't forget Max Shrek was a totally original creation and fits into the Ba-world perfectly),

Actually Tim Burton was originally going to have him as Harvey-Dent and turn into the two face by that electrocution and for the third film would made the movie focus on Two-Face.

But I still like the Max Shrek guy too. I was little surprise to find out that Animated series' Roland Dagget was inspired by him. And I can see the resemblance especially in the episode Appointment in Crime Ally.


I'm not too eager for a third film like most. I'd rather Nolan take his time.

But if a third film will surface, I'd rather like lesser known villains to choose from like:

Anarky

Mr. Zsasc

Tally-man

Black Mask

Deadshot

Deathstrike

Hush

Hugo Strange

The Ventriloquist

Abattoir

Calculator

Onomatopoeia


Yea.... I also want to say that having Harly quinn in Nolan's movie is kinda urgh. I find her most overrated villain in batman rogue gallery. I never like the idea of Joker with female partner. I always saw joker as a stand alone villain never working well with anyone.

[ajmrowland]

Since Christopher Nolan has washed his hands of this franchise, partly due to the death of Heath Ledger, I think that if they want to continue the quality and style of "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight", they need to turn to a director like Guillermo Del Toro, who I think would carry the torch very wisely and very well. We will have to see where all this goes, but for now you can forget about a Batman III from Christopher Nolan.

Del Torro's doing the Hobbit, right now, so he may not be available until that movie's well into post.

[The Little Merboy]

I would love to see Charlize Theron in the 3rd film. I feel like she could actually play any major female in Gotham history. She would be a striking Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Or a delicious but deadly Poison Ivy. And maybe, just maybe, she could have the chops to pull of Harley Quinn.

Or another dream choice of mine, for a much darker, Selina Kyle. Would be Famke Janssen, she could play the Year One Selina, former prostitute, robbing her way to the top.

But I honestly don't think any of the females, aside of Talia Al Ghul. Would fit into Nolan's Batman universe. Because this one is more real, and not so kitsch. What, in the real realm, would make a interesting Catwoman story? Oh, some rich lady stealing jewels. Not no where near as complex as Joker was. He needs something mental wise, like someone mentioned. A dark Zodiac killer like Riddler would work. Or as for Ivy, some former botanist who know controls plants?