The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part II

[pap64]

They technically still have Little Red Riding Hood, Rumpelstilskin (sp?), Hansel and Gretel, The Snow Queen, The Princess and the Pea, The Snow Man, Goldilocks and the Three Bears and any tales of American and/or international folklore similar to Mulan and Pocahontas.

Or they can do it the hard way and make original stories...

...NAH.

[tsom]

Yall, WTF? I haven't been to this site since two days ago, and now I come here and see arguements on B&tB, the usage of the term "classic," people ripping TPatF apart, etc. Again, WTF?

This movie hasn't even come out yet and people are already disappointed by it. We haven't even heard any music yet and people are already determined to hate this movie.

Here's what I think: I'm personally excited for this movie; I'm ecstatic that the lead will be black; I'm even more excited by the fact that the main romance will be interracial. I'm all for that! Just wait till the movie comes out before you pass judgement. We've only had a teaser trailer, and seen bits and pieces of several scenes.

As for the term classic, that's just Disney's marketing. To me, a classic means something that has stood the test of time and it's still being talked about decades after the movie's premiere.

As for the B&tB argument, I love that movie although it isn't my favorite. But people do put it and its characters, especially Belle, on a pedestal (as well as Lion King, but that's another story) like it's the greatest thing ever. So what if Belle likes to read? That doesn't make her smarter than other Disney characters. So what if she isn't waiting for Prince Charming to rescue her and take her to his castle? That does not make her stronger or more feminist than other female characters in Disney films. Please.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

First of all At Siren's post about Gaston taking the bow and arrow. Good catch! It's rather unrealistic that he'd actually take the bow and arrow over the gun.

[DARTH KNITE]

We're getting WAY off topic, but whatever. My biggest issue with Hercules, besides the crap animation is that they took such a serious story and made the film a comedy. I'm sorry, but that cheapens the whole thing, unless you really know how to do good satire, which they didn't. Their films were getting better and stronger (imo) every year, and then they reversed the whole thing and made that, loosing me as a big fan of theirs ever since. Even Mulan, which I really like, lacks the strong animation of the people. Despite good backdrops, and writing, it's a big enough issue to weaken the film for me every time I see it. Hercules simply had nothing going for it. Even the music, which isn't bad, simply isn't powerful. It's light and fun, and matches the movie, but it needed to be more serious. As for BATB, comparing it to Hercules is like comparing Schindler's List to Kangaroo Jack.

Getting back to PATF, yes we all know we haven't seen the film yet. If one more person says that I'm gonna scream. The point is, from what we have seen (which is what we're discussing) none of the elements of a classic appear to be there. Not the depth, not quite the best animation, although not bad, and CERTAINLY not the music. And as far as what I mean by classic, I agree with it pertaining to movies that stand the test of time, not what the label on the video says. Not sure why anyone would think that's what I meant, but I just wanted to make that clear.

[pap64]

Getting back to PATF, yes we all know we haven't seen the film yet. If one more person says that I'm gonna scream.

...STOP PASSING JUDGMENT ON A FILM YOU HAVEN'T SEEN YET!







... Man I've sunk to a new low.

[Siren]

First of all At Siren's post about Gaston taking the bow and arrow. Good catch! It's rather unrealistic that he'd actually take the bow and arrow over the gun.

Thanks

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Just going to jump back to the BatB topic a second, I can't remember who mentioned Belle sacrificed a lot staying in the castle. But how long did it take her to go running our the door saying "Promise or no promise I'm leaving' (or whatever the line is). Yeah, real sacrifice there going back on your word. Even though she did end up back there, that's simply because it had to happen or the story would have gone differently.


Back to PatF. I'm looking forward to seeing it, simply because it's a new disney movie. I'm not going to set my expectations high, nor am I going to over analyze things about it. I'll wait to see it and if I like it, then I like it. If not then oh well the DAC's at the bottom of the barrel on my ranking will end up moving up a slot

[2099net]

We're getting WAY off topic, but whatever. My biggest issue with Hercules, besides the crap animation

It's not "crap" animation. It's some of the best WDFA has ever done!

[Elladorine]

We're getting WAY off topic, but whatever. My biggest issue with Hercules, besides the crap animation

It's not "crap" animation. It's some of the best WDFA has ever done!

I'll agree that Hercules is among the best when it comes to animation quality. Once again, style is being confused with animation quality, and everyone's entitled to an opinion on that.

If you wanna talk about "crap animation" you need to look to something like Return of Jafar.

[DARTH KNITE]

You're right Return of Jafar's animation was bad, but the style was decent. I'm not confusing anything when I talk by the way, I think before I do so. As for Hercules I stick to what I said, but if you wanna play semantics, then the unrealistic "style" was crap. Happy?

[Disney's Divinity]

The character designs or style of this film look great to me (except Mama Odie, she frightens me).

Why? Mama Odie's the character I'm looking most forward to at this point. And Dr. Facilier (is that his name, I can't remember what it changed to). Though I guess that's mostly because I'm thinking of the voice actors involved.

Just going to jump back to the BatB topic a second, I can't remember who mentioned Belle sacrificed a lot staying in the castle. But how long did it take her to go running our the door saying "Promise or no promise I'm leaving' (or whatever the line is). Yeah, real sacrifice there going back on your word.

Um...so, if you were imprisoned but allowed to walk around on your own...you wouldn't run away? O-kay. You can believe that if you want, but me and Belle will live in the real world where people don't have to keep promises to monsters when they're innocent.

[Mooky]

Ahem... Back on topic: there's a new featurette on the official website, it's called The Disney Legacy... It's in the Video section of the site.

If you have Facebook, you can access it via Walt Disney Pictures Backlot page:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/video ... 749&ref=mf

[blackcauldron85]

Disney to Show Princess & Frog at Black Journalists Convention

http://news.awn.com/?&newsitem_no=28421
(via LaughingPlace.com)

[Super Aurora]

First of all At Siren's post about Gaston taking the bow and arrow. Good catch! It's rather unrealistic that he'd actually take the bow and arrow over the gun.

Yea, it's a good thing Clayton did it right. Something Gaston should of done.



but seriously of all that arguing, whatever happen to "just enjoy the movie for entertainment sake"? I find when people pick apart movies that's where it starts to ruin the movie it self because it plays in back of your(or anyone else's) mind that the movie is bad or it doesn't have this or that. No movie is "PERFECT" (as much as Duster wants to believe lol), every movie is going to have flaws. rather than nitpicking out all these flaws, just watch and enjoy the movie for what makes it great.

[BelleGirl]

Yea, it's a good thing Clayton did it right. Something Gaston should of done.

Well, we all know Gaston isn't very smart!

but seriously of all that arguing, whatever happen to "just enjoy the movie for entertainment sake"? I find when people pick apart movies that's where it starts to ruin the movie it self because it plays in back of your(or anyone else's) mind that the movie is bad or it doesn't have this or that. No movie is "PERFECT" (as much as Duster wants to believe lol), every movie is going to have flaws. rather than nitpicking out all these flaws, just watch and enjoy the movie for what makes it great.

Agree 100%. Much nitpicking about Hercules, Tarzan, B&B and even an upcoming feature nobody has seen yet! I enjoy watching all the forementioned movies, even though they are not perfect, and I expect to enjoy watching PatF.

[Disney Duster]

I only accept a classic as one if it is has certain qualities, is good, and it has long-lasting popularity. For the most part, Disney may call something a classic on it's list, or when the film just comes out, but then they usually only call it a classic again if it has proven itself so over time. I can't see them ever calling Home on the Range, Treasure Planet, Chicken Little or...even Lilo and Stitch a classic in the commercials for them coming to home video again.

Netty, I think what it really is is maybe Hercules has some more drama or even depth than Beauty and the Beast, but Beauty and the Beast still has some, or more than other Disney films. And I think the only reason you think everyone expects Belle to love the Beast and live happily ever after is because it's a Disney film, it's a fairy tale, and people already knew the story. People knew who Hercules was, but not many knew his whole story, yet people would still expect Meg and Hercules to fall in love and live happily ever after, as it's a Disney movie and just because you expect it...and those expectations were met!

And maybe they thought for a few seconds that maybe the two wouldn't stay together, but so did audiences worry that Belle and the Beast wouldn't stay together when Belle left...twice. I really think the only reason people wouldn't expect Meg to hook up with Hercules is because they don't know the story and it's not called "Hercules and Meg". Yes, both characters seem rather independent, too, but there were things in Belle and the Beast's characters that made people wonder how they could love each other or stay together.

Also, like Divinity said, why is it bad if Disney keeps adapting new fairy tales in new ways? It's still new. I want to even ask how dare you say Rapunzel or The Princess and the Frog will not move foward into new territory? They will, in terms of animation, story-telling, character development and depth. They are trying to do that with these stories.

I don't understand why anyone would want a studio to start becoming something else, stop making family classics about fantasy to making films about drugs or the mafia. Everytime Disney adds something that seems so different from what it was before, I just question why? They must put their name on everything? I don't mind them doing things a little differently, but not so outrageously different.

I still stick by using creativity to make a German King and Queen adopt a black baby in the happiest most accepting magical kingdom ever imagined...and make it realistic and flowing, beautifully animated and serious.

Chernabog, Belle leaving is a great, and yes realistic thing for her character. Its a great thing for a woman to leave an abusive man.

Divinity, you wrote such good defenses of the upcoming fairy tales Disney's doing and of Beauty and the Beast!

[drnilescrane]

Also, like Divinity said, why is it bad if Disney keeps adapting new fairy tales in new ways? It's still new. I want to even ask how dare you say Rapunzel or The Princess and the Frog will not move foward into new territory? They will, in terms of animation, story-telling, character development and depth. They are trying to do that with these stories.

I don't understand why anyone would want a studio to start becoming something else, stop making family classics about fantasy to making films about drugs or the mafia. Everytime Disney adds something that seems so different from what it was before, I just question why? They must put their name on everything? I don't mind them doing things a little differently, but not so outrageously different.

I still stick by using creativity to make a German King and Queen adopt a black baby in the happiest most accepting magical kingdom ever imagined...and make it realistic and flowing, beautifully animated and serious.

Because last time I checked, it was an Animation Studio full of ARTISTS, not a factory assembly line. By their very nature, artists are people who want to challenge the norm and branch out into new territory both stylistically and technically to improve their work. Fantasia is the perfect example of this and, gasp, it's a Walt! The reason the studio sucked right up until Eisner and co. kicked them out - The pictures of Walt and Roy hanging on the wall in the animation department putting a clamp on all the creativity coming out of the studio.

This all has a nice little side effect - the Audience don't get bored (i.e. Hercules whose major problem was it was just one Menken musical too many, especially after Hunchback. From a stylistic point of view, it's a classic compared to TENG which is the closest WDFA got to Saturday Morning.) Chicken Little was a production line picture, and it shows and it will never be remembered for being anything special.

And for all of you who would like the think that Mr. Chain Smoking, Swearing, et. al. Walt Disney wouldn't have made anything like Pretty Woman, etc - Walt would have in a heartbeat if he hadn't been pigeon holed as an ARTIST who only made kiddy fare. It killed him he couldn't make anything adult because of fools who cling onto the idea the studio is a production line for fairytale.

Good on the current staff of the studio for respecting the artistic integrity of the Man and crafting their own path in the spirit of the name of the man.

[Marce82]

Actually, drnilescrane, you are quite mistaken about Walt.

If you listen to the audio commentary on mary Poppins, you can hear Walt himself say that people accused him of always portraying happy-fantasy type scenarios. And he says thats fine, other film makers can do the cunical stuff...he will stick with happy things. (im paraphrasing)

As for disney getting a bit formulaeic....somewhat true. I still think Hercules's problems were not that, but overall pacing, directing, and story issues.

And true, artists often try to push bounderies. But you cant create a new art for with each film. Lets face it, animation is an art form, and a business. I think the challenge is finding original ways to innovate within the bounderies of what the company has come to represent.

And every once in a while, they should step out of line and make a Fantasia of sorts...or a Lilo and Stitch...

[tsom]

I just saw the new Harry Potter film and TP&tF was one of its previews.

First of all, seeing it on the big screen was amazing!!! This will be the first Disney movie (other than Enchanted) that I'll see on the big screen.

Second, the theater was sold out. Once the preview started, everyone was quiet. I could tell they loved it! I should also add that the audience laughed really loud at all the comedic things Frog Prince Naveen said (cutting a rug, tripping over these, the end of the trailer when his stomach blows up, etc). The people I went with and were around seemed very happy that the great Disney fairy story is coming back. Black, white, and Indian people mentioned how they loved that the movie will have a black heroine and the love story will be interracial.

I proceeded to mention that Disney will be coming out with Rapunzel next year and all seemed pleased

The point is no matter how much anyone complains about the animation, music, the racial issue, and the interracial relationship, this movie has a certain magic spell that loads of people will fall under. I have a feeling it'll be very successful.

[jediliz]

It was the first preview I saw with HBP yesterday. It looks okay, but I'll probably just end up renting it.