The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part II

[pap64]

All the previews make it took like a timeless classic, but I felt that the timing of things in the sneak preview just felt odd. In the end, I think it'll be a great, sucessful movie.

I also thinks it's funny how they keep saying stuff like "she'll won't be waiting for her prince" and "the prince won't be just a prize" when those movies (the three walt princess films) will always be regarded as highly suprior to anything else. and to snow whites/cinderella/rose's defence, theres not much else you can do when your locked in a tower or in a coma

Like I explained before, the sneak previews were made for the tween audience that were watching Princess Protection Program that night (hence why they focused a lot on the humor). The trailer was likely made to attract the older Disney fan, hence why the previews feel weird when compared to the trailer.

[Siren]

Yeah, spoilers for this kind of movie don't bother me. Now it it was for Sixth Sense kinda movie, I'd avoid spoiler threads

[Elladorine]

Yeah, spoilers for this kind of movie don't bother me. Now it it was for Sixth Sense kinda movie, I'd avoid spoiler threads

That actually popped in my head after I wrote my last post, but that's an extreme case there.

[pap64]

SUPER DUPER MEGA SPOILERS! HERE'S THE ENDING TO THE MOVIE...

Tiana and Naveen get married and Tiana's dream of owning a restaurant comes true.

SHOCK!

[Marce82]

Haha...With disney films its usually not about how it ends, thats not the part that is spoil-able. Same can be said for romantic comedies. Its about the journey, HOW we get there.
We all knew how beauty and the beast was gonna end...

I do want to comment on the animation of TPATF...it looks inconsistent to me. Some parts look as graceful as disney animation should be...but some of it is too cartoony. The way tiana is serving the food?? Can anyone picture Belle or Aurora moving like that??

It reminds me a bit of "the great mouse detective". Key pose- few inbetweens-key pose- few inbetweens...

Makes it look very cartoony...and not smooth and graceful...

Anyway, im very excited about the film and the return to 2-d...just thought I would give my 2 cents.

[pap64]

Haha...With disney films its usually not about how it ends, thats not the part that is spoil-able. Same can be said for romantic comedies. Its about the journey, HOW we get there.
We all knew how beauty and the beast was gonna end...

I do want to comment on the animation of TPATF...it looks inconsistent to me. Some parts look as graceful as disney animation should be...but some of it is too cartoony. The way tiana is serving the food?? Can anyone picture Belle or Aurora moving like that??

It reminds me a bit of "the great mouse detective". Key pose- few inbetweens-key pose- few inbetweens...

Makes it look very cartoony...and not smooth and graceful...

Anyway, im very excited about the film and the return to 2-d...just thought I would give my 2 cents.

I think it all depends on the scene. From what I understood the serving food scene was part of "Dreams do come true in New Orleans", which is a musical number so its likely they were trying to animate the characters to the rhythm of the song. In other words, its a jazzy song number so the characters accordingly.

Anyways, I am not expecting absolutely perfect animation in PatF. Yes I want it to look good, and its already good looking, but I won't throw a tantrum if certain frames of animation are missing .

[Kyle]

Animation shouldnt be judged based on how many inbetweens it has, its more about how strong the key poses are. solid keys make inbetweens

Often timesDisney animation likes to hide its faults by just being fluid. They think the more frames the more sophisticated we'll think it is, but its not true.

And I still hate it when people say "its too cartoony". come on, it IS a cartoon people. You wouldn't say "thats too live actiony" would you?

[DARTH KNITE]

I understand what you're saying about people saying it's too "cartoony" being weird, but the problem is Disney, especially their 90's legacy, was accomplished by integrating adult themes and circumstances. This movie doesn't seem to have any of that. I think what people are expressing is a reason for the parents and the older generation of Disney fans to see this. I can tell you right now, based on the trailer, I'm not interested. I'll see it because I've been waiting so long for them to go back to this style, but it needs to be more Beauty/Lion/Hunchback, and a lot less Hercules/Tarzan/Atlantis, which is where it seems so far. Especially with Randy Newson's god awful music. A critical element of their movies they shouldn't have given up on so easily. Tiana deserves that famous princess ballad of her predecessors and she's not gonna get that with his style.

[bluemoon86]

Tiana deserves that famous princess ballad of her predecessors and she's not gonna get that with his style.

I don't know about that. Watch the song "Tell Me Lies" from the Movie "Cats Don't Dance". I think it's the type of song we can expect for Tiana. Newman's music in that movie is some of his best work IMO and I think it's sort of what we can expect for this movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sft7TsFOYY

[bluemoon86]

Sorry to double post but there's a new featurette "The Princess and the Animator". You can here Annika sing "Down in New Orleans". As usual Newman's song sounds so much better with someone else singing it.

[bluemoon86]

Sorry to double post but there's a new featurette "The Princess and the Animator". You can here Annika sing "Down in New Orleans". More proof of what I said above.
http://www.awntv.com/videos/princess-an ... featurette

[BelleGirl]

I like the dimples in her cheeks!
Curious to hear other song-samples.

[PrincePhillipFan]

Thanks for posting the video! I'm not sure how to feel on the songs yet (since we haven't heard any ) but I think Anika singing is very pretty! I can't wait to hear more clips from the upcoming songs.

[pap64]

Sorry to double post but there's a new featurette "The Princess and the Animator". You can here Annika sing "Down in New Orleans". More proof of what I said above.
http://www.awntv.com/videos/princess-an ... featurette

How lovely! I wonder if the reprise of "Dreams come true in New Orleans" happens at the balcony.

Anyways, in response to DARK KNITE, you are right in that The Princess and the Frog will not be like Beauty and the Beast, Lion King and the rest of the fab four. But not because the film will be inferior to them but because Princess and the Frog will be its own, unique film. While Disney IS selling the movie as part of a legacy it is very, very unfair to compare the movie to the older movies, especially without having even seen it.

And what the HELL is wrong with Hercules and Tarzan? Both had amazing music, stunning animation, great characters, fun humor and heart. Even Atlantis, which to some is a weak film, had some amazing moments and clever ideas. If Princess and the Frog is "heading down that path" then I hope so because it means we will have a great movie in our hands.

If people start comparing it to Beauty and the Beast and such they WILL be disappointed. Even if most of the legendary animators and the famed directors are working on this film it will NOT be like the 90s films. It has a brand new team of animators, musicians and artists and they talent will reflect the era the film is being made in.

Speaking of Beauty and the Beast, really that movie had many animation flaws and mistakes, including instances of un-even character design and odd animation. And that film is labeled as one of the best movies ever. So why does Princess and the Frog have a problem? It is being down by humans, not machines, so of course the animation will not be perfect.

Finally, I am sick and tired of all the Randy Newman bashing. We haven't even heard the whole soundtrack and we don't know how it will be used in the movie or if Randy will sing them. And his music isn't awful. His singing is odd, I give him that. But he can write some amazing songs. Are people already forgetting he wrote "When somebody loved me" for Toy Story 2? That was a very sad and melancholy song.

[ajmrowland]

People say his music and singing is horrible, but I vastly disagree. In fact, his singing makes me enjoy Toy Story's soundtrack MORE, if only because his singing isn't perfect. You should be more worried if I were singing the songs in P&TF.

[Kyle]

I understand what you're saying about people saying it's too "cartoony" being weird, but the problem is Disney, especially their 90's legacy, was accomplished by integrating adult themes and circumstances. This movie doesn't seem to have any of that. I think what people are expressing is a reason for the parents and the older generation of Disney fans to see this. I can tell you right now, based on the trailer, I'm not interested. I'll see it because I've been waiting so long for them to go back to this style, but it needs to be more Beauty/Lion/Hunchback, and a lot less Hercules/Tarzan/Atlantis, which is where it seems so far. Especially with Randy Newson's god awful music. A critical element of their movies they shouldn't have given up on so easily. Tiana deserves that famous princess ballad of her predecessors and she's not gonna get that with his style.

fair enough I guess, though i think their just playing up the funny aspects in early trailers as its hard to really advertise serious emotional pull. its something you only get a feel for in the actual movie, or reviews, not a trailer.

[Marce82]

Well first, in response to what Kyle wrote:

"Animation shouldnt be judged based on how many inbetweens it has, its more about how strong the key poses are. solid keys make inbetweens "

I strongly disagree. I happen to be an animator...and an inbetween is as much part of the animation as a key pose. THey both take up 1/24th of a second (or 1/12...who are we kidding?). I am not saying everything has to be overly inbetweened, but I think that the speed of the action should not be modified because someone doesnt want to make more drawings. Specially at disney!! They can certainly afford to make as many drawings as necessary!

Now about the new video about Tiana...thanks for posting it!! Im so excited to see this film...and I love Mark Henn's designs an animation. Is it just me, or does she have Jasmine-like eyes? :p

[Disney's Divinity]

I understand what you're saying about people saying it's too "cartoony" being weird, but the problem is Disney, especially their 90's legacy, was accomplished by integrating adult themes and circumstances. This movie doesn't seem to have any of that. I think what people are expressing is a reason for the parents and the older generation of Disney fans to see this. I can tell you right now, based on the trailer, I'm not interested. I'll see it because I've been waiting so long for them to go back to this style, but it needs to be more Beauty/Lion/Hunchback, and a lot less Hercules/Tarzan/Atlantis, which is where it seems so far.

I think you've kind of hit on how I feel about this movie so far. TP&TF doesn't really show much of what to expect from it in its trailers--only, "Hey, she turns into a frog!" Um, okay? Can I ask what the rest of the actual plot is about now? They really seem to go out of their way to tell us how awesome and wonderful this movie is going to be, pointing out the fab four of the 90s to let the audience know that they did make movies people liked once upon a time.

For the most part, the animation looks okay and there's no way to judge it completely until it's been released. But at the moment it looks nearly inferior to the 90s. And considering those movies were inferior to the ones made by Walt, that's kind of a bad sign.

[pap64]

*Sigh

People, the trailers haven't show half of what Princess and the Frog is going to be. I think they don't want people to know to much about the movie before its out. This is something that has been done with the other fab four movies, letting us known part of the movie without spoiling it all.

As for the "adult" themes, really I think people haven't been paying attention.

Tiana is working hard and saving money to obtain her restaurant. That involves hard work and sacrifice to make a dream come true. There's also the lesson of responsibility and a care free life, something that both Naveen and Tiana learn throughout the movie. That to me a pretty adult ideal.

I understand that the naysayers are saying the movie will be bad for the same reason some fans say the film will be great; it will be a very important film for Disney. Their movies after Home on the Range have suffered artistically and commercially. Pixar pretty much overpowers Disney with their films. And the movie will be released at a time in which CG animation rules theaters.

Just as there's the hope that the film will be great there will also be the fear that the movie might not live up to its predecessors and thus force Disney back to making commercially viable CG films and let Pixar once again lead the way.

I think both camps should regain some critical thinking before letting their emotions cloud their better judgment. Despite how wonderful or mediocre some of the new information appeals to be it doesn't tell the whole film. They are just snippets of something bigger, which may or may not be fantastic.

I don't think the film will be perfect, but I also believe it won't be a disaster either. It will not live up to its predecessors. Instead it will create its own legacy as one of the most popular fairy tale films of the 21st century, in the same way that The Little Mermaid was the start of a new legacy in the late 80s and early 90s.

And I think both camps will agree that they want the film to succeed financially at least since its success will give fans hope that 2D animation can still attract audiences and what matters is the story told, not the medium it is used.

So to end this I will say EVERYONE STOP SAYING THE MOVIE WILL BE GOOD AND THAT THE MOVIE WILL BE BAD!

From now on I declare The Princess and the Frog to be one HUGE question mark. No matter how great or blah the promotional material might be we will never know if the movie will be good or bad.

I have spoken. Anyone that dares to oppose will get a boot to the head.

[BelleGirl]

For the most part, the animation looks okay and there's no way to judge it completely until it's been released. But at the moment it looks nearly inferior to the 90s. And considering those movies were inferior to the ones made by Walt, that's kind of a bad sign.

Really, how can you say that! The movies of the 90's may be 'inferior' to Walt's best, animationwise they are miles above some of the Disney products that came out in the 70's like Robin Hood and Aristocats.
To me, TPatF animation looks far from inferior!