Iger sucks

[Neal]

Flanger-Hanger - That wasn't directed solely at you, but rather everyone on this thread who is browbeating DTVs and the OP.

Yes, the OP is wrong on several accounts in terms of his history and Iger's actions, but I do agree with one thing: that I wish DTVs still existed. Not just any DTVs, because I do know that the ____Buddies series still exists. I like the animated DTVs - and am glad that at least TinkerBell is hanging on. I think 'Lost Treasure' looks really good. It seemed as if DisneyToon was just hitting their stride at long last. Cinderella III and Ariel's Beginning were of a much higher caliber than their earlier works. If they had continued, (especially with Sharon Morrill ousted), we could have seen respectable continuations of some of the canon films.

You all seem to be missing the point I was making about Walt Disney making films for everyone. The DTVs were aimed at kids. Disney also has 'adult' fare - Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland, Prince of Persia, Tron 2 - to name a few. It wasn't like all Disney was making was DTVs. My point was that many Disney snobs who think because they are older and have been loyal fans for many years Disney should cater to them. They beat down the DTVs because they aren't 'art'. I was trying to say that it is okay for the elitist fans to exist - if they ignore the DTVs. There is plenty more coming out of Disney that isn't DTVs - between the new D23, some of their live-action films, and additions to the theme parks - there was/is enough to keep the adult Disney fans happy. So rather than attacking the DTVs, enjoy what you are getting.

I was trying to point out that there is something for everyone, so there was and still is no need for you to be lambasting the DTVs. (Again, this is aimed at all the haters.) You could just ignore them. A 'pink elephant', if you will.

I know that 'adult' live-action has done well. I was referring strictly to adult animation - it doesn't sell well here in the U.S. That's why anime is so 'niche'. My Best Buy and Barnes & Noble just sold all their anime stock out because it wasn't selling enough. Disney has experienced this.

The Disney market is fueled by kids. Plain and simple.

Hannah Montana - the two movies were massive successes - enough so parents pulled their kids out of school to see it. The quality? Less than a DTV, in my opinion. Yet they sell. Why? Kids. Kids love them. You're right, kids don't understand marketing or quality - they understand their favorite characters, flashiness, and silliness. Hence why the DTVs were so successful and why shows like Hannah Montana remain popular.

Most people I know outside of Disney-specific forums like the DTVs. Parents say it kept their kids happy. The younger generation who is just getting old enough to go on forums admit liking them. It seems the true 'haters' are the adults - the Disney elitists.

We aren't as profitable of a demographic as we think.

Why is it films barely a decade old such as Toy Story and Lilo & Stitch can get attractions at Walt Disney World/Land, but after 74 years there is no Disney history museum (talking about the company, not the man)? The archives should have been made into a museum years ago - the adult fans thrive off of stuff like that - but they haven't been.

Why? Because the adult fans don't fuel Disney enough. We are lucky we get what we do and Disney hasn't gone strictly-kid. All the Disney stores I go to sell stuffed animals, toys, and T-Shirts. That's because there's always kids in there. The only adults in there are parents, not Disneyana hobbyists. If I want something 'adult' like a Giclée or Cel - I either have to go to one of the theme parks or check on eBay.

The DTVs were immensely popular with kids. Most kids loved them. They made reportedly billions, and that's why they are continuing to be re-released even when new installments have been stopped (which annoys me, it seems hypocritical).

The adult fans don't fuel Disney, so it doesn't seem right their bemoaning the DTVs got them canceled. They were made for kids and for the more accepting fans like myself - not for the elitists. All in all, I thought they were only getting better and wish they still existed. I would have loved a 'Meet the Robinsons 2' or new Pooh installment.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Only making DTVs? technically not, but for every Meet the Robinsons there was at least 5 other Brother Bear and Fox and the Hound 2s. The ratio for animated films begin DTV vs. theatrical was significant and it made Disney look cheap by not releasing quality products to theaters or not deeming them good enough to be in theaters in the public's eye. DTV was synonymous with "cheap" for the public.

Enough for adults? BS. When was the last time you heard Touchstone making a hit like Three Men and a Baby or Down and Out in Beverly Hills? The Pirates films are outnumbered by Dwane Johnston filler films and Narnia is no longer a Disney property.

Disney Stores are struggling to make money, as someone who works their and actually interacted with guests I can tell you it's because they are not interested in the crap sold there unless it's 75% off. The fact that Disney is tweaking D23 to get more people to join 9by doing such things as making the archives accessible to members) and that DR. Syn sold all 39,500 copies in a month's time without advertising shows that a market exists and Disney wants in on it.

WDI was and is a horrid mess made up of suits who run the show and only want character based tie ins to sell merchandise. That's why Stitch is begin pushed so much (even if his attraction's numbers are not what Disney wants the to be because it's crap) and why original ideas are rarely made. Even DCA's massive makeover is fueled by franchises such as Cars and Disney Princesses to justify their existence.

[The_Iceflash]

Flanger-Hanger - That wasn't directed solely at you, but rather everyone on this thread who is browbeating DTVs and the OP.

Yes, the OP is wrong on several accounts in terms of his history and Iger's actions, but I do agree with one thing: that I wish DTVs still existed. Not just any DTVs, because I do know that the ____Buddies series still exists. I like the animated DTVs - and am glad that at least TinkerBell is hanging on. I think 'Lost Treasure' looks really good. It seemed as if DisneyToon was just hitting their stride at long last. Cinderella III and Ariel's Beginning were of a much higher caliber than their earlier works. If they had continued, (especially with Sharon Morrill ousted), we could have seen respectable continuations of some of the canon films.

You all seem to be missing the point I was making about Walt Disney making films for everyone. The DTVs were aimed at kids. Disney also has 'adult' fare - Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland, Prince of Persia, Tron 2 - to name a few. It wasn't like all Disney was making was DTVs. My point was that many Disney snobs who think because they are older and have been loyal fans for many years Disney should cater to them. They beat down the DTVs because they aren't 'art'. I was trying to say that it is okay for the elitist fans to exist - if they ignore the DTVs. There is plenty more coming out of Disney that isn't DTVs - between the new D23, some of their live-action films, and additions to the theme parks - there was/is enough to keep the adult Disney fans happy. So rather than attacking the DTVs, enjoy what you are getting.

I was trying to point out that there is something for everyone, so there was and still is no need for you to be lambasting the DTVs. (Again, this is aimed at all the haters.) You could just ignore them. A 'pink elephant', if you will.

I know that 'adult' live-action has done well. I was referring strictly to adult animation - it doesn't sell well here in the U.S. That's why anime is so 'niche'. My Best Buy and Barnes & Noble just sold all their anime stock out because it wasn't selling enough. Disney has experienced this.

The Disney market is fueled by kids. Plain and simple.

Hannah Montana - the two movies were massive successes - enough so parents pulled their kids out of school to see it. The quality? Less than a DTV, in my opinion. Yet they sell. Why? Kids. Kids love them. You're right, kids don't understand marketing or quality - they understand their favorite characters, flashiness, and silliness. Hence why the DTVs were so successful and why shows like Hannah Montana remain popular.

Most people I know outside of Disney-specific forums like the DTVs. Parents say it kept their kids happy. The younger generation who is just getting old enough to go on forums admit liking them. It seems the true 'haters' are the adults - the Disney elitists.

We aren't as profitable of a demographic as we think.

Why is it films barely a decade old such as Toy Story and Lilo & Stitch can get attractions at Walt Disney World/Land, but after 74 years there is no Disney history museum (talking about the company, not the man)? The archives should have been made into a museum years ago - the adult fans thrive off of stuff like that - but they haven't been.

Why? Because the adult fans don't fuel Disney enough. We are lucky we get what we do and Disney hasn't gone strictly-kid. All the Disney stores I go to sell stuffed animals, toys, and T-Shirts. That's because there's always kids in there. The only adults in there are parents, not Disneyana hobbyists. If I want something 'adult' like a Giclée or Cel - I either have to go to one of the theme parks or check on eBay.

The DTVs were immensely popular with kids. Most kids loved them. They made reportedly billions, and that's why they are continuing to be re-released even when new installments have been stopped (which annoys me, it seems hypocritical).

The adult fans don't fuel Disney, so it doesn't seem right their bemoaning the DTVs got them canceled. They were made for kids and for the more accepting fans like myself - not for the elitists. All in all, I thought they were only getting better and wish they still existed. I would have loved a 'Meet the Robinsons 2' or new Pooh installment.

I agree except for Hannah Montana: The Movie being less of a quality than a DTV. It was a very well made movie.

[bradhig]

I was hoping to see a sequel in which Cinderella has a child.

Time to be shrunk down beyond the size of an atom and hope I don't get back on visual. (Sees if anyone knows what that is from)

[Neal]

Well, I'm not going to argue anymore. I don't want to start a pointless, ridiculous flame war. I like the DTV animated films (not all, but several of them). I was sad to see the majority of them end. You seem to not like many of them and do not care they were ended. It's clear we disagree on the matter, so I'm going to drop it.

bradhig - Have you heard of Twice Charmed?

It's Disney's third sequel to Cinderella. It is a stage show musical shown only on Disney Cruises. It would have made a wonderful animated DTV!

[Flanger-Hanger]

I was hoping to see a sequel in which Cinderella has a child.

Time to be shrunk down beyond the size of an atom and hope I don't get back on visual. (Sees if anyone knows what that is from)

Adventure Thru Inner Space, but the two don't really fit together and just make you look like more of an idiot.

[Neal]

Why do you have to be so rude about it?

I realize bradhig was being more aggressive than I was, but calling someone an idiot is uncalled for.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Why do you have to be so rude about it?

I realize bradhig was being more aggressive than I was, but calling someone an idiot is uncalled for.

Fine. It makes him look unintelligent for trying to combine a random extinct attraction reference with a desire to see a DTV involving having children when Adventure Thru Inner Space never dealt with the topic.

"The Making of Me" would have been a better choice IMO, at least that involved trying to explain the process of creating children.

[bradhig]

I only mentioned Adventure Thru Inner Space as desire to get away people around cause binging shrunk and sent into snowflakes no one could bother you. I never got to ride it but I think it a cool ride cause of my being interested in science.

[Escapay]

Adventure Thru Inner Space, but the two don't really fit together

When Adventures Thru Inner Space closed, one man was quite upset, and he was seen sobbing at the wall advertising the then-in-construction Star Tours. He had told his son that once he was old enough, he would take him on the ride in which he was conceived. The son was finally old enough, but when they got to Disneyland, the ride was closed and boarded up. (Story courtesy of David Koenig's Mouse Tales)

Thus, both Adventures Thru Inner Space and Disney's DTV sequels dealt with children.



albert

[bradhig]

Don't take it the wrong way when people talk about me being crazy for liking DTV's it makes me quite upset and want to get as far away from people as possible.

[disneyboy20022]

When I think about who was/is better for Disney: Iger or Eisner....I think of another analogy

Who would you rather see more often...Lord Poo Poo or Mr. Vomit

or the phrase pick your poison comes to mind

[Flanger-Hanger]

Adventure Thru Inner Space, but the two don't really fit together

When Adventures Thru Inner Space closed, one man was quite upset, and he was seen sobbing at the wall advertising the then-in-construction Star Tours. He had told his son that once he was old enough, he would take him on the ride in which he was conceived. The son was finally old enough, but when they got to Disneyland, the ride was closed and boarded up. (Story courtesy of David Koenig's Mouse Tales)

Thus, both Adventures Thru Inner Space and Disney's DTV sequels dealt with children.



albert

I like the stories surrounding Mr. Toad's closure better where one person handcuffed himself to the ride and another ripped off a plush Pooh's head and threw it's fluffy severed corpse into a scene in the ride.

[bradhig]

Disneyland has a Mr Toads wide ride so why the fuss over the WDW version?

[PrincePhillipFan]

Mostly because Mr Toad was a fan favorite amongst regular Florida guests (myself included), as evidence that WDW is still now even selling Mr Toad's Wild Ride t-shirts. Also part of it is I think it was the best version of Toad out there. While Disneyland's version is nice, I felt something was missing. While DL has always had a single track ride, WDW's was a dual track, with two completely different experiences on each side you could choose, with the only scene the two shared together is the Toad Hall entrance and the Town Square.

WDW's Toad also had many scenes that aren't in the Disneyland version, and I think some that are improvements on DL's version. On the left track you careened through the trophy room, the kitchen, a gypsy and fortune teller's camp, Winkie's tavern, the dynamite warehouse, the countryside, and then head onto the train and into hell. On the right track, you went through the library, a barnyard, a barn full of flying chickens, the police station, the jail, a car shootout between the cops and weasels, and then into the train tunnel and then into hell. It was one of my favorite rides as a kid, and now the only place where Toad resides is at the Haunted Mansion.

I still love Fantasyland today, but I still miss the Fantasyland of my young childhood, when they had Mr Toad, 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea, and the original Snow White's Adventures where the Witch tried to kill you at every corner.

[jimdotbeep]

Don't take it the wrong way but there is a reason All of those terrible sequeals all went straight to video. The were not good enough to be on the big screen. And yet all of the originals were. They animation quality is terrible on of of these traight to video sequals, As well as the Extreamly poorly written story lines. They don't even bother to make these sequeal within a reasonable amount of time after the original was made. Thus the target audience is that much less likely to have seen the orginal film they are making a sequal to.

As a matter of fact WALT DISNEY Himself Spoke out against a sequal to Snow White and the 7 Dwarves. Walt disney never made a sequeal in his entire life as an animator. The first Disney sequeal was "The Rescuers Down Under" and that was made after Walt Disney died.

As far as I'm concered Iger is a hero for putting a stop to all these Horrible sequeals

[toonaspie]

bradhig - Have you heard of Twice Charmed?

It's Disney's third sequel to Cinderella. It is a stage show musical shown only on Disney Cruises. It would have made a wonderful animated DTV!

Ditto on that. I wasn't big on Cinderella 3. I think Twice Charmed would've been a better sequel.

I kinda think that all of this stuff about sequels and cheap theme parks is getting far too much into people's heads. Who is to say that Walt didn't have his own faults during his time? I'm sure a lot of the films, theme park rides, and shorts that Walt himself headlined were looked down as inferior during their day.

The problem lies in being too loyal to Walt. Walt would've wanted the company to expand in order to adapt to trends. Why else would he invest so much in television when it was at its peak? The Disneyland Show was nothing more than a super long commercial for it's park. If Disney were to do that kind of show to promote any of its parks today, it would be maliciously attacked by the Disneyphiles despite the fact that it's really no different from what Walt himself did.

As for the sequels...the sequels HAD potential. The problem was that Disney failed to tap into that potential. Some of the sequels had good storylines but horrid animation and some had slightly better animation but bad storylines...and others had bad of everything. The thing that sucks is the quality of DTV sequels in both areas were never taken into consideration until it was like one or two years before the whole department shut down for good.

As a matter of fact WALT DISNEY Himself Spoke out against a sequal to Snow White and the 7 Dwarves. Walt disney never made a sequeal in his entire life as an animator. The first Disney sequeal was "The Rescuers Down Under" and that was made after Walt Disney died.

That's not entirely true. While none of the animated films had actual sequels made...he did allow for many of the characters he created to be featured in spinoffs, crossovers, and the like. Figaro and Jiminy Cricket from Pinocchio were seen in a variety of other animated shorts (off-canon nonetheless ). Jiminy Cricket himself was a character in Fun and Fancy Free, a film that is considered a member of the WDFA canon. And The Three Caballeros is considered a semi-sequel to Saludos Amigos.

Also Walt approved production of several "sequels shorts" to The Three Little Pigs...despite his lack of interest in doing so. He did allow the Seven Dwarves and other Disney characters to be featured in WW2 propaganda shorts that had NOTHING to do with the films they originated from. If Walt had been that concerned about preserving his characters and stories, he would never have allowed something like this to happen.

To think if the WDFA were to take old Disney characters and put them in a featurette film...Disneyphiles would be going haywire as we speak!

I think Walt would've been a little more open about sequels today if a good story and good production was behind it. Would he have approved a sequel to something like Beauty and the Beast? Of course not, cause a sequel to something that is meant to be a one-shot like Beauty and the Beast is ridiculous! But I think he would've approved something like The Rescuers Down Under that had stong quality animation, story, and direction and didn't lose the vibe of the original.

To be blunt: Walt was not a perfect man! He was merely a businessman no more different from the guys in the suits at WDC today. The only difference was that he was a smart businessman who saw a marketing oppurtunity in families, and he knew how to balance creativity and quality with profit.

[jimdotbeep]

these crossovers are not sequeals and the 3 little pigs were never a feature animated film

[toonaspie]

these crossovers are not sequeals and the 3 little pigs were never a feature animated film

True but Walt's animated shorts were still taken in high regard and quality and the animated features were so if he were that serious about not wanting to make sequels, he wouldn't have caved in to pressure.

[bradhig]

Wasn't Cinderella 2 made up of episodes from a never produced TV series?

I don't like Eisner for killing rides at the parks

He killed Adventure Thru Inner Space ,people mover at Disneyland ,Skyway at all parks, Mr toad at WDW. If they needed Winnie the Pooh ride so bad why didn't they built a new building rather then wreck a perfectly good dark ride with a following?