Is Disney Done with DVD? (The Never Ending Blu-Ray Debate)

[Beast]

The main reasons are its too expensive and DVD is good enough.

Imagine if the world did that for everything.

Well, a horse is good enough. Who needs a car.

Well, wax cylinders are good enough. Who needs better.

Well, black and white is good enough. Who needs color.

Well, silent films are good enough. Who needs sound.

And so on, and so on. Being good enough goes against everything that even Walt Disney stood for. He'd want his films presented in the best quality possible. Settling for good enough is never the right mindset.

When the prices come down, and disc prices are more in line with current DVD prices this will change.

The prices for discs are already fairly comparible. If you shop around.

And you get what you pay for. Even if it is a few bucks more for so much more.

This Blu-ray DVD stuff is really starting to get old. If this continues I really suggest to the people that are in charge of the site to create a separate Blu-ray and DVD forum for Disney discussion. I know its helped on other forums to cut down on this stuff.

Considering this website's anti-Blu standpoint, they'd probably ban discussion of it instead.

I guess Out of Sight/Out of Mind is the only way to happily take DVD being "good enough".

[drfsupercenter]

Seems that everytime they send out screeners, the movie gets pirated before the day is out.

Blu-Ray is the future, and the adoption rates are growing more and more every day.

Sounds like this woman is just pissed cause she'll have to buy her DVD copy instead of getting a free one.

LOL, that's so funny because Blu-Ray is easily pirated too. In fact, I think they cracked BD+ a day or two after it came out.

And what do you mean this forum is anti-Blu-Ray? There are plenty of people who promote it... I'd actually think there are more Blu-Ray fanboys here than people like me who do not think the format is so great. And I do not count as the people who do not have a BD player or have not used HD... I actually have. That's what makes me different

[drfsupercenter]

While I don't feel it is necessary to replace your current DVDs with Blu-Ray titles (unless the added bonus features are worth it to you), there are two factors that make Blu-Ray video look better than upconverted DVDs. The data transfer on a Blu-Ray is 54 mb/s, wheras a DVD is 27 mb/s. Therefore, information is getting to your TV faster and gives you improved picture. But the big factor that causes a noticeable difference between a Blu-Ray and an upconverted DVD is the maximum video bit rate. For a Blu-Ray, it is 40 mb/s, but for an upconverted DVD, it is 28 mb/s.

Ever hear that expression that goes "Statistics mean nothing to the individual"? Same thing goes here.

Yes, Blu-Ray has a higher bitrate than DVD (Assuming it's in HD - extra features and stuff are often exact stream copies from the DVD master), but is it VISIBLE? That's the real question. Computer screencaps don't really help either, as most people do not have computer resolutions over 1920x1080 (Mine is 1440x900, so it's close), and therefore they're viewing these super-sized images at a close distance. I have actually compared some movies first-hand, and while some looked noticeably better than the DVD, others did not.

@dvdjunkie, honestly, the best way to see if it's worth getting the Blu-Ray or not is to just try both formats of the same movie. Most Blockbuster stores have a given movie in both formats to rent, BD being only $4.99. I know it's not free, but it's far cheaper than paying $20-30 for a movie without actually seeing if there is a difference.

And from what I've seen and heard, there's no perfect way to test it. It varies based on an individual's hardware - the TV size, what brand/type it is, how far away you sit, etc. The list goes on. I've pointed out the results for me, using a Panasonic 50" plasma and PS3 using HDMI from about 10 feet, most other people will probably have different results (Or just try to prove me wrong for the sole purpose of disagreeing - which it seems a few people seem to enjoy doing these days )

[DarthPrime]

This forum is far from anti-Blu-ray.

Disc prices are not comparable at all. New releases are priced ok compared to DVD, but catalog titles are not.

Players are still expensive compared to DVD.

The benefit for Blu-ray, other than better picture/sound, isn't as great as DVD was to VHS.

Its pointless to continue the argument. I'm not anti-Blu-ray at all. I do however see the point with the majority of consumers over Blu-ray, and its always too expensive/not worth it.

Forums like Ultimate Disney represent the minority on movie purchases in my opinion.

[Rudy Matt]

Is this site anti-blu?

Don't know, but this was compiled at Blu-Ray.com:

----

The following are recent snippets from UD.com reviews and news stories:

"In a move displaying the studio's desperation for indifferent audiences to warm to Blu-ray, Disney has changed plans for the concurrent high-def debut of October 8th Platinum Edition Sleeping Beauty."
--News Story

"The final booklet contains semi-random ads and coupons, Blu-ray propaganda, information on dalmatians from the American Kennel Club, and a number of Disney DVD ads..."
-- review of 101 Dalmatians: PE DVD

"[Inside the case] we do, however, get a Disney Movie Rewards code sheet and a booklet for Blu-ray, which Disney loves to advertise even when they don't have enough faith in it to put out a version alongside this DVD reissue..."
-- review of Mary Poppins DVD

"The first of two Easter eggs is bound to elicit groans from those sick of hearing about Blu-ray Disc. It's an 80-second pitch for the film's concurrent Blu-ray release..."
-- review of Enchanted DVD

--------

I'm not calling this site anti-blu-ray, but the references to the format by the UD reviewers can definitely be construed as negative.

[Beast]

This forum is far from anti-Blu-ray.

You could have fooled me. Seems like everytime there's something mentioned regarding Blu-Ray the complainers come out in force. Ultimate Disney is even a butt of jokes on most Hi-Def websites because of it.

Disc prices are not comparable at all. New releases are priced ok compared to DVD, but catalog titles are not.

Yes they are. You just need to know to shop around.
And FYI, a new release on Blu-Ray is still a new release.
Comparing it to a bargain bin release from years ago is what's not comparible.

Players are still expensive compared to DVD.

You get what you pay for. And the PS3 is still the most worthwhile player.

Future proof. And a game system all in one. Well worth the investment.

The benefit for Blu-ray, other than better picture/sound, isn't as great as DVD was to VHS.

Maybe if you don't care about the best picture and sound.

Its pointless to continue the argument. I'm not anti-Blu-ray at all. I do however see the point with the majority of consumers over Blu-ray, and its always too expensive/not worth it.

Forums like Ultimate Disney represent the minority on movie purchases in my opinion.

And nobody is forcing them to upgrade. Regardless of how people act.

[Beast]

Is this site anti-blu?

Don't know, but this was compiled at Blu-Ray.com:

----

The following are recent snippets from UD.com reviews and news stories:

"In a move displaying the studio's desperation for indifferent audiences to warm to Blu-ray, Disney has changed plans for the concurrent high-def debut of October 8th Platinum Edition Sleeping Beauty."
--News Story

"The final booklet contains semi-random ads and coupons, Blu-ray propaganda, information on dalmatians from the American Kennel Club, and a number of Disney DVD ads..."
-- review of 101 Dalmatians: PE DVD

"[Inside the case] we do, however, get a Disney Movie Rewards code sheet and a booklet for Blu-ray, which Disney loves to advertise even when they don't have enough faith in it to put out a version alongside this DVD reissue..."
-- review of Mary Poppins DVD

"The first of two Easter eggs is bound to elicit groans from those sick of hearing about Blu-ray Disc. It's an 80-second pitch for the film's concurrent Blu-ray release..."
-- review of Enchanted DVD

--------

I'm not calling this site anti-blu-ray, but the references to the format by the UD reviewers can definitely be construed as negative.

And that and more is exactly why the website is the butt of jokes.

Gotta love the "Propagranda" comment especially.

[ajmrowland]

I admit that the jump to blu-ray is not as practical as the jump from VHS to DVD. Not one's denying that. I also agree that the studios are pushing it a little too much, but in spite of the constant advertising, there is a grain of truth. While slightly exaggerated, Blu is the better format. The difference is noticeable on a properly calibrated tv set.

Also, the "demo discs" that show multiple slips from multiple movies don't look as good as the actual movie discs played on a display in the store, so don't go using that as "evidence".

Thirdly, Why are you complaining? the DVD is still available in stores, and still carries most the same transfer and most of the features that are on the blu-ray disc.

And Blu-ray is beginning to catch. It has a long way to go, bu every site that's ever been accurate AND non-biased to blu-ray/DVD says it, including CNET, tvpredictions, and Neilson has hardly been accurate for anything, as far as I'm concerned.

Is DVD a good format? yes. Is it good enough once you've seen the blu-ray of a specific title? Not necessarily. The "too expensive" excuse is much more logical to use.

But, of course, I know someone's going to bash my thought-out post with senseless rage, so what's the point?

BTW, David. I find it interesting that you mention the future and the now because the now generally has to be changed to secure the future of anything. It's been done with cars, and it's been done with game systems. And the argument of Blu-ray's ultimate fail, is the same one used since the dawn of VHS/Beta-Max, for just about every movie format that's been on the market. period. History really does have a tendency to repeat itself.

[JDCB1986]

I'd honestly suggest a vision test then. Or at least an HD TV. Cause there's a huge difference.

I have 20/20 vision, smartass, and while I don't have a HDTV, the comparisons I made WERE on one, both at a friends house and in a store!

On some titles I noticed a slight imporovement but had to LOOK for it, others looked exactly the same. Just as Drfsupercenter said in another thread!

Blu-Ray on top
DVD on bottom


DVD


Blu-Ray



DVD


Blu-Ray

I would hardly call that a "slight improvement"

A lot of people have been saying Blu-Ray isn't going to catch on... that the difference between VHS and DVD is one thing, but DVD vs Blu-Ray is a completely different story.
I feel like Blu-Ray (both discs and players) are going to go thru a few more years of transition and eventually, you won't have the option of buy just DVD players anymore.
It will be just like "standard" TV's vs. Widescreen TV's... Company's will slowly stop making them, until eventually, they aren't available anymore.
As Blu-Ray players get less and less expensive, company's will start weeding out DVD-only players and will start releasing Blu-Ray players which play either format.
Today's TVs are either 720 or 1080 resolution. It is painfully obvious that the only way to keep up is with a video format that has the same resolution. Why have a TV capable of 1080 but a video format capable of less than half that (DVD is 480.) You're not getting full potential out of your TV.

HD vs SD is a really common battle, it's all over cable TV, in movie theatres, in home theatres... But the fact is, is that HD will eventually be the dominate product. It's the way technology works. It takes steps forward, and Blu-Ray happens to be the next step forward in home video, regardless if you see a difference or not and regardless if you like the way studios are pushing it down your throat.
Just look at your local electronic store... A year ago Blu-Ray shared a small isle with HD-DVD. Now only a year later, Blu-Ray has it's own section, no longer half of one isle, but two complete isles.
It is stupid to clutter up this entire thread arguing about how great or horrible Blu-Ray is. The fact is, whether you are a fan of it or not, it is the next step forward and it will slowly and eventually replace standard definition DVD's.

[ajmrowland]

My Toshiba 47HL167(model no.) makes my Blu-rays look Gorgeous. There's no way You can watch it on that, and say you didn't notice the difference.

[Beast]

Only the T2 pics work for me....

But damn, I didn't know the T2 release looked that nice. Can't wait for the new version.

[David S.]

Thirdly, Why are you complaining? the DVD is still available in stores, and still carries most the same transfer and most of the features that are on the blu-ray disc.

I did not enter this thread to "complain" about Blu-Ray, but rather to support the concerns of the reviewer quoted by RudyMatt in the original post.

As a consumer, you're right, there is nothing to complain about regarding the DVD release of Pinocchio, which won't be losing any significamt supplements to the BD.

I have nothing against BD personally, but I do get annoyed by the heavy-handed tactics used to try to promote it at DVDs expense. Such as, in this case, not providing DVD copies to reviewers in spite of DVD being the dominant formant.

And then things like leaving the Art Gallery off of the 2-disc DVD of Bolt (according the the press release) so it can be a BD exclusive. (I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, unless I missed it) Since when is an art gallery not technically possible with DVD that it can only be on the BD? There is no justifiable reason to leave the Art Gallery, a longtime staple of 2 disc DVD sets, off the 2-disc DVD of Bolt other than to try to entice people to "go Blu".

Lastly, things like the sickening Disney BD commercial that talks about how families don't watch movies together anymore, but now with the magical arrival of Disney BD, they all want to watch movies as a family again.

Implying the PQ of DVD was soooo horrible people couldn't bear to watch movies together, thank God BD is here to save the day!

I really have nothing against BD, just the nausiatingly forceful way companies like Disney are trying to shove it down everyone's throat by trying to act like DVD, a fine product, is a piece of garbage!

BTW, David. I find it interesting that you mention the future and the now because the now generally has to be changed to secure the future of anything. It's been done with cars, and it's been done with game systems. And the argument of Blu-ray's ultimate fail, is the same one used since the dawn of VHS/Beta-Max, for just about every movie format that's been on the market. period. History really does have a tendency to repeat itself.

Well again, that was in support of the reviewer who wanted to review the whole 2 disc DVD set for her readers. My point was simply even if BD is the future (a term used by Beast), DVD is still the dominant format NOW. Therefore IMO Disney should provide a DVD copy for the reviewers who would like to review it.

I personally, am NOT predicting the fall of BD. I just feel it is a long way from replacing DVD, and I think there is a chance that instead of taking over completely, it will co-exist with DVD.

Therefore, being so far-removed from replacing DVD completely, I am simply diagreeing with what seems to be a forced de-emphasis of DVD where they are going as far as to not even provide review copies of the DVD at a time when DVD is still, in THE NOW, the dominant format. And that is my point in using that terminology.

[Beast]

Such as, in this case, not providing DVD copies to reviewers in spite of DVD being the dominant formant.

And there is a DVD included. Of the movie. There, now it can be reviewed.

And then things like leaving the Art Gallery off of the 2-disc DVD of Bolt (according the the press release) so it can be a BD exclusive. (I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, unless I missed it) Since when is an art gallery not technically possible with DVD that it can only be on the BD? There is no justifiable reason to leave the Art Gallery, a longtime staple of 2 disc DVD sets, off the 2-disc DVD of Bolt other than to try to entice people to "go Blu".

It's called an incentive. It's certainly not new.
Get ready for more of them. Just like DVD had more extras than VHS.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if DVD went barebones eventually.

Well again, that was in support of the reviewer who wanted to review the whole 2 disc DVD set for her readers. My point was simply even if BD is the future (a term used by Beast), DVD is still the dominant format NOW. Therefore IMO Disney should provide a DVD copy for the reviewers who would like to review it.

They are providing a DVD copy. But it's just of the movie.
Whenever a review talks about extras, PQ and AQ are almost never mentioned.
So the extras review is going to be the same no matter what.
Of course, if so-called Professional Reviewers don't have Blu-Ray. Then they certainly arn't Professional Reviwers.

[David S.]

Blu-Ray on top
DVD on bottom


DVD


Blu-Ray



DVD


Blu-Ray

I would hardly call that a "slight improvement"

Only the top set of pics is displaying for me, and the DVD pic is displaying squished for me so of course it won't look as good.

It does look darker, but was it taken from the same transfer as the BD release, or an older DVD release from a different transfer?

I'm not saying there is never a noticible difference, just that, in my experiences, it wasn't that big a deal.

My point is, with VHS even before DVD came out, there were times I thought the PQ looked horrible due to limitations with the format.

With DVD, I have never been less than pleased with PQ. There is nothing wrong with DVD that in and of itself made me want something better.

[ajmrowland]

Thirdly, Why are you complaining? the DVD is still available in stores, and still carries most the same transfer and most of the features that are on the blu-ray disc.

I did not enter this thread to "complain" about Blu-Ray, but rather to support the concerns of the reviewer quoted by RudyMatt in the original post.

As a consumer, you're right, there is nothing to complain about regarding the DVD release of Pinocchio, which won't be losing any significamt supplements to the BD.

I have nothing against BD personally, but I do get annoyed by the heavy-handed tactics used to try to promote it at DVDs expense. Such as, in this case, not providing DVD copies to reviewers in spite of DVD being the dominant formant.

And then things like leaving the Art Gallery off of the 2-disc DVD of Bolt (according the the press release) so it can be a BD exclusive. (I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, unless I missed it) Since when is an art gallery not technically possible with DVD that it can only be on the BD? There is no justifiable reason to leave the Art Gallery, a longtime staple of 2 disc DVD sets, off the 2-disc DVD of Bolt other than to try to entice people to "go Blu".

Lastly, things like the sickening Disney BD commercial that talks about how families don't watch movies together anymore, but now with the magical arrival of Disney BD, they all want to watch movies as a family again.

Implying the PQ of DVD was soooo horrible people couldn't bear to watch movies together, thank God BD is here to save the day!

I really have nothing against BD, just the nausiatingly forceful way companies like Disney are trying to shove it down everyone's throat by trying to act like DVD, a fine product, is a piece of garbage!

BTW, David. I find it interesting that you mention the future and the now because the now generally has to be changed to secure the future of anything. It's been done with cars, and it's been done with game systems. And the argument of Blu-ray's ultimate fail, is the same one used since the dawn of VHS/Beta-Max, for just about every movie format that's been on the market. period. History really does have a tendency to repeat itself.

Well again, that was in support of the reviewer who wanted to review the whole 2 disc DVD set for her readers. My point was simply even if BD is the future (a term used by Beast), DVD is still the dominant format NOW. Therefore IMO Disney should provide a DVD copy for the reviewers who would like to review it.

I personally, am NOT predicting the fall of BD. I just feel it is a long way from replacing DVD, and I think there is a chance that instead of taking over completely, it will co-exist with DVD.

Therefore, being so far-removed from replacing DVD completely, I am simply diagreeing with what seems to be a forced de-emphasis of DVD where they are going as far as to not even provide review copies of the DVD at a time when DVD is still, in THE NOW, the dominant format. And that is my point in using that terminology.

In that regard, I see your point. I don't realy like seeing all the booklets being Blu-ads, nor having the Blu-ray trailers ON MY BLU-RAYS. And I mention all the time that the difference is Exaggerated, but that's mainly because the standard manufacturing for all players(BD and DVD, alike) is in the composite cable. I think the advertising tells you the way a DVD looks when *not* up converted, either through composite or component(latter, likely), and that's what I don't like. I like a more accurate comparison

Oh, and JD, Can you change the DVD cap so they appear to be the same ratio(which I know they are)?

[JDCB1986]

I have 20/20 vision, smartass, and while I don't have a HDTV, the comparisons I made WERE on one, both at a friends house and in a store!

On some titles I noticed a slight imporovement but had to LOOK for it, others looked exactly the same. Just as Drfsupercenter said in another thread!

Blu-Ray on top
DVD on bottom


DVD


Blu-Ray



DVD


Blu-Ray

I would hardly call that a "slight improvement"

A lot of people have been saying Blu-Ray isn't going to catch on... that the difference between VHS and DVD is one thing, but DVD vs Blu-Ray is a completely different story.
I feel like Blu-Ray (both discs and players) are going to go thru a few more years of transition and eventually, you won't have the option of buy just DVD players anymore.
It will be just like "standard" TV's vs. Widescreen TV's... Company's will slowly stop making them, until eventually, they aren't available anymore.
As Blu-Ray players get less and less expensive, company's will start weeding out DVD-only players and will start releasing Blu-Ray players which play either format.
Today's TVs are either 720 or 1080 resolution. It is painfully obvious that the only way to keep up is with a video format that has the same resolution. Why have a TV capable of 1080 but a video format capable of less than half that (DVD is 480.) You're not getting full potential out of your TV.

HD vs SD is a really common battle, it's all over cable TV, in movie theatres, in home theatres... But the fact is, is that HD will eventually be the dominate product. It's the way technology works. It takes steps forward, and Blu-Ray happens to be the next step forward in home video, regardless if you see a difference or not and regardless if you like the way studios are pushing it down your throat.
Just look at your local electronic store... A year ago Blu-Ray shared a small isle with HD-DVD. Now only a year later, Blu-Ray has it's own section, no longer half of one isle, but two complete isles.
It is stupid to clutter up this entire thread arguing about how great or horrible Blu-Ray is. The fact is, whether you are a fan of it or not, it is the next step forward and it will slowly and eventually replace standard definition DVD's.

Sorry for quoting myself... but I posted new links, so the pics should all work now.

And as far as the DVD cap on T2 being squished... That is the point. The Blu-Ray is far superior to the DVD.

[David S.]

Such as, in this case, not providing DVD copies to reviewers in spite of DVD being the dominant formant.

And there is a DVD included. Of the movie. There, now it can be reviewed.

You completely miss the point. How in the heck can the reviewer review the ENTIRE set when they are only given half of it. The point you are making about never reviewing the PQ and AQ of the bonus features is IRRELEVANT. They still comment on what they are, and whether they are informative, etc.

And then things like leaving the Art Gallery off of the 2-disc DVD of Bolt (according the the press release) so it can be a BD exclusive. (I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, unless I missed it) Since when is an art gallery not technically possible with DVD that it can only be on the BD? There is no justifiable reason to leave the Art Gallery, a longtime staple of 2 disc DVD sets, off the 2-disc DVD of Bolt other than to try to entice people to "go Blu".

It's called an incentive. It's certainly not new.
Get ready for more of them. Just like DVD had more extras than VHS.

Uh, VHS basically had NO extras like Art Galleries. Sometimes they had short making ofs and shorts, and still did at the time of DVDs inception. They were certainly NOT sabotaging the previously accepted amount of VHS suplements to push DVD - in fact, the VHS of Pinocchio that corresponded to the Gold DVD had a short making-of that was not on the DVD!

Of course, if so-called Professional Reviewers don't have Blu-Ray. Then they certainly arn't Professional Reviwers.

What an arrogant and pompous statement. If you are a DVD reviewer writing your reviews for an audience of DVD buyers, you don't need BD!

If you are more of a techie reviewer writing reviews for that audience I would agree with you, but some reviews are written for DVD buyers by and for an audience interested more in the artistic angle than having the latest and greatest technology.

[Beast]

You completely miss the point. How in the heck can the reviewer review the ENTIRE set when they are only given half of it. The point you are making about never reviewing the PQ and AQ of the bonus features is IRRELEVANT. They still comment on what they are, and whether they are informative, etc.

Again. Most professional reviewers are going to have the best equipment possible.

This woman who's complaining, clearly only cares cause she wanted a free copy of the movie.

Yeah, it's such a pity that she's gonna have to go buy the DVD like the rest of us.

Well, except for those of us who actually do care about PQ/AQ and buy Blu-Ray.

[Rudy Matt]

With DVD, I have never been less than pleased with PQ.

Wow - you must not buy a lot of discs from the Disney Movie Club. The Story of Robin Hood looks like it was struck from an old VHS tape from 1982. A Tiger Walks, Kidnapped, Third Man on the Mountain - they look awful.

[David S.]

Blu-Ray on top
DVD on bottom


DVD


Blu-Ray



DVD


Blu-Ray

I would hardly call that a "slight improvement"


And as far as the DVD cap on T2 being squished... That is the point. The Blu-Ray is far superior to the DVD.

I had commented that the DVD version on the first pics was squished. I guess I had assumed it was displayed like this and not encoded squished on the DVD, but even if the DVD was encoded wrong/squshed, that IMO is an authoring error of that particular DVD and not indicative of any general flaw with the DVD format.

Also, the DVD does look darker. Perhaps this is from a different transfer than the BD cap?