Pinocchio Platinum Edition Discussion Thread

[DarthPrime]

When DVD was released you didn't have to worry if discs would not play, and players bought in the late 90s can still play new DVDs.

That's inaccurate: compatibility issues and firmware upgrades have definitely been a part of DVD's history. (I've personally owned 2 players bought in the past 6 years which have had playback issues with certain titles: one was sold in a yard sale, the issues with the second were resolved after a firmware upgrade.)

The one problem I have with Blu-ray right now is the players. There are several good stand alone players out now, but it still seems to be "safe" the PS3 is the best bet.

The PS3 is really only the best bet if you're interested in any of the rest of its non-Blu-ray functions. There are less expensive, reliable, and fully-capable players available from a variety of name manufacturers.

I don't know how they can do it, but they need to get rid of mandatory firmware updates as well.

Firmware upgrades aren't going anywhere anytime soon, for better or worse. It's early days exploring the format's capabilities beyond simple video playback. <i>Caveat emptor</i>, as they say: the well-researched consumer is a smart consumer. My advice, were it sought, would be to invest in a BD-Live player for the great ease in firmware discomfort the internet connection provides, and to avoid the tempting $150-and-under "white box" players arriving this year in favor of a name manufacturer providing timely technical support.

I did not know that on DVD. I never had to do any updates on the players I had. The only time I've replaced any of them is when one of them died a couple years ago.

BD-Live isn't necessary in my opinion, since a lot of Profile 1.1 players have Ethernet jacks as well to do updates. Of course you miss out on the BD-Live content though.

[Marky_198]

Why is it unfair?

Look, because Europeans have less disposable incomes, for myriads of reasons (social, political, and economic that we don't want to get into, right?),.

OMG you are making such a fool of yourself.

Do you have any idea of the economical and social-situation in Europe?
Europeans have much more disposable incomes, because of higher wages and more social benefits.
And did you know that in our country (The Netherlands) every single person has a wonderful health insurance?
Wouldn't it be great if Americans had that too?


But to stay on topic, I think that animated films look horrific in HD and they were never meant to be seen that way.

[Marky_198]

People won't have a choice to convert to High Definition.

Like the death of VHS, it will happen eventually. Just a matter of time.

In your wet dreams.
The general audience just doesn't care enough.
And I don't think blu ray is ever going to win from dvd.
Just like "super audio cd" etc, never won from the normal CD.

[ajmrowland]

Yeah because the PS3 is the only Blu Ray player out there

What planet have you been living on? It's considered the best out there, but it sure as hell isn't the only one.

[ajmrowland]

People won't have a choice to convert to High Definition.

Like the death of VHS, it will happen eventually. Just a matter of time.

In your wet dreams.
The general audience just doesn't care enough.
And I don't think blu ray is ever going to win from dvd.
Just like "super audio cd" etc, never won from the normal CD.

Super audio cd and DVD-A never really had the advertising campaigns blu-ray does.

[The_Iceflash]

In your wet dreams.
The general audience just doesn't care enough.
And I don't think blu ray is ever going to win from dvd.
Just like "super audio cd" etc, never won from the normal CD.

Super audio cd and DVD-A never really had the advertising campaigns blu-ray does.

Nonetheless, most people interested in Blu-Ray are audiophiles and videophiles. It was also audiophiles that were mostly interested in Super-audio cd and DVD-A. Advertising or not, the market hasn't really been expanded much beyond that.


@Everyone: Let's move that discussion here since we are starting to get too off topic:

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... highlight=

[Big Disney Fan]

Is Disney ever going to put out a complete list of this DVD's bonuses? If so, when and where?

[ajmrowland]

Super audio cd and DVD-A never really had the advertising campaigns blu-ray does.

Nonetheless, most people interested in Blu-Ray are audiophiles and videophiles. It was also audiophiles that were mostly interested in Super-audio cd and DVD-A. Advertising or not, the market hasn't really been expanded much beyond that.


@Everyone: Let's move that discussion here since we are starting to get too off topic:

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... highlight=

True, the market is still small, but 17% and growing is not a sign of adoption slowing down. Only time will tell. As for Blu-ray losing to DL's, that's highly unlikely until there is a standard for all movie download services. Netflix, Tivo, Time Warner, PS, XBOX Live, Itunes, they're all very different in services, and that can create a dent in their paychecks.

[Anton Ego]

But to stay on topic, I think that animated films look horrific in HD and they were never meant to be seen that way.

Which is precisely why Disney has never shot a feature on any format larger than 8mm film.

[ajmrowland]

But to stay on topic, I think that animated films look horrific in HD and they were never meant to be seen that way.

Which is precisely why Disney has never shot a feature on any format larger than 8mm film.

lol. For a moment I thought you were serious.

[Jules]

Marky, be sure to miss The Princess and the Frog in theatres in 2010 because 35mm film is pretty much like HD, only even better ...

[Disney Duster]

In Marky's defense, until Beauty and the Beast, films weren't digital. Perhaps it is the digital HD that older films from Snow White until The Little Mermaid don't look so good in.

I've also been wondering if maybe the softness of non-HD (no, not just worn VHS!) kind of blends things more, more like shading instead of just lines and color, more like how real life is.

Also, some video critics have noted that brush strokes and other elements of the hand-painted and inked artwork are often flattened out into smooth blocks of color on DVDs. This could be getting rid of the textures or even a blended looks intended by the original artists.

I even read that Snow White's artists gave cloth and things specific textures, like the Queen's garments got silky ones and the dwarfs got more homespun ones or something.

I wish someone like Netty and others who know a lot and are trying to learn about the way the original films were made could mark on these painted textures and how digital restorations might virtually get rid of them.

[yukitora]

I think softness works well with some animation, for example, I think the older The Simpsons opening works far better than the new HD one, however this is a TV show.

It really depends on the style of animation though, Sleeping Beauty looks stunning in HD, others maybe not so much. A better example is the first two digimon movies, the first one looks better with a softer texture, the second one would look stunning in HD.

[Anton Ego]

Also, some video critics have noted that brush strokes and other elements of the hand-painted and inked artwork are often flattened out into smooth blocks of color on DVDs. This could be getting rid of the textures or even a blended looks intended by the original artists.

I even read that Snow White's artists gave cloth and things specific textures, like the Queen's garments got silky ones and the dwarfs got more homespun ones or something.

I wish someone like Netty and others who know a lot and are trying to learn about the way the original films were made could mark on these painted textures and how digital restorations might virtually get rid of them.

Loss of detail on DVD releases is a result of authoring/post-processing choices made to accommodate DVD's limited capabilities: it is most certainly NOT an endemic shortcoming of digital preservation or restoration.

[Marky_198]

In Marky's defense, until Beauty and the Beast, films weren't digital. Perhaps it is the digital HD that older films from Snow White until The Little Mermaid don't look so good in.

I've also been wondering if maybe the softness of non-HD (no, not just worn VHS!) kind of blends things more, more like shading instead of just lines and color, more like how real life is.

Also, some video critics have noted that brush strokes and other elements of the hand-painted and inked artwork are often flattened out into smooth blocks of color on DVDs. This could be getting rid of the textures or even a blended looks intended by the original artists.

I even read that Snow White's artists gave cloth and things specific textures, like the Queen's garments got silky ones and the dwarfs got more homespun ones or something.

I wish someone like Netty and others who know a lot and are trying to learn about the way the original films were made could mark on these painted textures and how digital restorations might virtually get rid of them.

Thank you Disney Duster. You hit the nail on it's head.
It's very true what you say about the softness, blending of things, colors, shadows, brush strokes and textures, that's just gone....

And yes, it's mostly about the older films.

[Anton Ego]

Thank you Disney Duster. You hit the nail on it's head.
It's very true what you say about the softness, blending of things, colors, shadows, brush strokes and textures, that's just gone....

And yes, it's mostly about the older films.

To reiterate, with emphasis:

Loss of detail on DVD releases is a result of authoring/post-processing choices made to accommodate <b>DVD's limited capabilities</b>: it is most certainly NOT an endemic shortcoming of digital preservation or restoration.

[CampbellzSoup]

I've never seen Pinnochio, and I'm quite excited to. I'm going to hold it to the same standard as Snow White so it's an early film so don't expect the bells and whistles of the newer ones.

Besides this petty talk about colors, anyone without spoiling the film having any good memories of seeing Pinnochio?

[Disney Duster]

Anton Ego, in an interview about restorations, someone who worked on them said they get rid of "paint pops", grain, because in animated films "it looks like noise" as she said, and smooth out paint. Ah, here's a quote from the restorer:

It’s a choice. We try to make what works best for the film because they didn’t intend for there to be paint problem, but again, whether you take too much grain off, it starts looking plasticky. If we took out every single bit of paint crawl it starts looking really flat.

Found that in the interview here.

I think they're taking out to many paint strokes, 'cause it's lookin' flat. Also, the lighting seems to be removed a little and that could also be making things look flat, as the films restorations seem to make them colder, less warmly lit.

But anyway, they said it was "a choice". They try to figure out the original intent, and then change, oh I'm sorry "fix" things based on what they think was the original intent. You know the best way to make sure you're getting what they intended? Leave it alone. Just put it in HD and remove the excess grain, dust, and dirt, and change it as little as possible. Unless paint crawls over time, too. Oh it doesn't? Okay then leave it alone.

[ajmrowland]

In Marky's defense, until Beauty and the Beast, films weren't digital. Perhaps it is the digital HD that older films from Snow White until The Little Mermaid don't look so good in.

First off, with Disney films that came before BatB, they were not produced in the computers, but we must consider how standard film functions in the cinema and on VHS. It does wear out.


The Little Mermaid and Snow White don't look perfect in HD, but they look fine. I could go back and watch the movie, and then watch the old trailer footage on the DVD and not see the clothing texture differences that you described.

I've also been wondering if maybe the softness of non-HD (no, not just worn VHS!) kind of blends things more, more like shading instead of just lines and color, more like how real life is.

And if you were to view the DVDs on a standard composite cable today, you would see blurriness all around. Not just in the lines and stuff, but a loss of detail, and a remastered DVD will almost always be called for to fit new standards. SD is not like real life. Real life is sharp. I could look at the quilt that's sitting on the couch 10 feet away and still see a lot of detail that i would miss when looking at it through an SD camera lens. Even though it's essentially the same image, it just wouldn't look as good as it did. That's what studios are striving for with HD: A sharp, clear look and feel to even the most stylized and unreal imagery. An enhanced suspension of disbelief designed for the home.

Also, some video critics have noted that brush strokes and other elements of the hand-painted and inked artwork are often flattened out into smooth blocks of color on DVDs. This could be getting rid of the textures or even a blended looks intended by the original artists.

Interesting cause when I look at the DVD a TLM or Bambi, I can't help but marvel at how much detail Does appear. At least in the background canvases.


And I cant believe how much I had to do to get the word "does" in bold print. It automatically assumes I'm at the end of my post!?

[Flanger-Hanger]

Leave it alone. Just put it in HD and remove the excess grain, dust, and dirt, and change it as little as possible.

I'd be more than happy to hear your experiences in the field Mike, as I'm sure you've spent hours staring at frames of film in photoshop in an attempt to do just that and I'm sure you found it quite simple and easy to do given the tools of technology you had and the training you were given before you got the job.

Brain surgery can't be hard, I mean all you do is open and close a few tubes here and there and viola it's done.