60's & 70's Aspect Ratios (from Sword in the Stone)

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:47 am

What about R2 DVD transfers? Did they get the same prints we did here in the States?

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:30 am

OK, well the two-disc 40th Anniversary one in region 2 is the same as ours. It's just 4% faster and in PAL.

They also have a 1.85:1 version, like our Masterpiece and GCC line. Then I found this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mary-Poppins-Al ... 411&sr=1-5

Not sure what aspect ratio it is... but it's actually a combo set?
According to my friend in the UK, those are usually just one disc of each movie in a slipcase. So it would probably be either one or the other...

Typically the overseas releases are the same video track as ours, they just change the language as needed. Rare exceptions were like, Aladdin 3, where there was a fullscreen version there. And some of the ones they skimped on here.

Any news as to what the "new" Mary Poppins DVD will be aspect ratio wise? Given Disney's stupidity recently, though, I'd bet it'll be the same as the other one.

--EDIT--

OK, so I'm looking at the laserdiscs now... the US Archive collection one is 1.78:1, according to LDDB.com. That's close enough to 1.75:1... is that one the true OAR? Or is that one just stupidly cropped like the rest?

And what was that Japenese open matte one I need to get again? The Japanese Archive one? Or something else?

--EDIT 2--

What the heck is this? 2.35:1?!! Seriously?!

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:02 am

I think according to Deathiemouse's thread, that the Archive Laserdisc edition was the closest thing to the actual theatrical ratio (I remember reading his comment that Laserdisc tended to be the way to go when it came to the Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio as that format tended to be for cinephiles and movie buffs). Without any screencaps for comparison, though, we can't be sure.

I have no clue what that 2.35:1 laserdisc is. According the the press release information I have (which is from a 1970s re-release, however) and based off of the research that Deathiemouse did, it is pretty safe to assume (90%) that the Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio of Poppins is 1.75:1.

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:07 am

drfsupercenter wrote:I have the Masterpiece VHS (of Pete's Dragon), and I believe I have a copy of that DVD somewhere...

When I get a chance I can take some screenshots.

Here is a link to the UltimateDisney DVD review of the Gold Collection disc. It has only a few screencaps, but that might save you some time if you're still looking at doing a comparison.

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/petesdragon.html

Looking forward to seeing if the VHS transfer was open matte, p&s, or tilt & scan. And the laserdisc transfer as well.

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:10 am

I think according to Deathiemouse's thread, that the Archive Laserdisc edition was the closest thing to the actual theatrical ratio (I remember reading his comment that Laserdisc tended to be the way to go when it came to the Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio as that format tended to be for cinephiles and movie buffs). Without any screencaps for comparison, though, we can't be sure.

I have no clue what that 2.35:1 laserdisc is. According the the press release information I have (which is from a 1970s re-release, however) and based off of the research that Deathiemouse did, it is pretty safe to assume (90%) that the Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio of Poppins is 1.75:1.

Well I can buy that Archive laserdisc for like $10... and then you can have screenshots. But if that one's really the best one to get, what's the deal with the Japanese laserdisc mvealf took screencaps of?
I was gonna look for that, but I'm not sure which one of the several it is.

I almost want to buy that 2.35:1 version just to see how badly they cropped it

As far as Pete's Dragon... I can record that VHS (Turns out I have the GCC VHS, not the WDMC, but it shouldn't matter...)
But I haven't seen the movie in so long, I really have no idea where any of those screenshots are from. I can just as easily get the DVD from my library and compare using timecodes.

And there's no way the VHS would be *tilt* and scan, that's when you cut the top and bottom off. The DVD, however, may be.

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:18 am

Good question. My bet is that they used the Japanese laserdisc because that is what they had at their disposal. It would be nice to see a comparison pic of the Archive Collection up there with the other transfers we've seen. As of now, that Japanese laserdisc has the 'most proper' framing yet, but perhaps the archive laserdisc version is a cleaner copy of that print.......or perhaps it is a cropped version of an already cropped release (i.e. how the 1.66:1 version that is currently getting released is actually a cropped version of the 1.85:1 on the Gold Collection disc).

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:24 am

Well, should I buy the US Archive laserdisc?

I would buy the Japanese one too but I don't know which one and I don't want to have to buy all 5 of them if I don't have to... (There might actually be six, two of them are just the same cover and stuff)

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:30 am

I'm not sure where else to get screencaps for that laserdisc edition. $10 isn't a bad price. Is there a website you go to for specifically Laserdisc shopping? There are a couple I'm still looking for and, short of ebay, don't now where to look.

EDIT:

I found a REALLY cheap copy of a nice clean laserdisc. Check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LD-MARY-POPPINS-fre ... 7C294%3A50

Also, is this that super widescreen version you were talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARY-POPPINS-JULIE- ... .m20.l1116

The_Iceflash · Post by **The_Iceflash** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:33 am

drfsupercenter wrote:
I think according to Deathiemouse's thread, that the Archive Laserdisc edition was the closest thing to the actual theatrical ratio (I remember reading his comment that Laserdisc tended to be the way to go when it came to the Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio as that format tended to be for cinephiles and movie buffs). Without any screencaps for comparison, though, we can't be sure.

I have no clue what that 2.35:1 laserdisc is. According the the press release information I have (which is from a 1970s re-release, however) and based off of the research that Deathiemouse did, it is pretty safe to assume (90%) that the Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio of Poppins is 1.75:1.
Well I can buy that Archive laserdisc for like $10... and then you can have screenshots. But if that one's really the best one to get, what's the deal with the Japanese laserdisc mvealf took screencaps of?
I was gonna look for that, but I'm not sure which one of the several it is.

I almost want to buy that 2.35:1 version just to see how badly they cropped it

As far as Pete's Dragon... I can record that VHS (Turns out I have the GCC VHS, not the WDMC, but it shouldn't matter...)
But I haven't seen the movie in so long, I really have no idea where any of those screenshots are from. I can just as easily get the DVD from my library and compare using timecodes.

And there's no way the VHS would be *tilt* and scan, that's when you cut the top and bottom off. The DVD, however, may be.

Check this place out. It's a Disney Laserdisc Database. It could help.

http://www.disneyinfo.nl/laserdiscdatab ... ive-Action

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:59 am

Yeah, I've seen that disneyinfo site... their information is pretty much the same as what LDDB has.

EDIT:

I found a REALLY cheap copy of a nice clean laserdisc. Check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LD-MARY-POPPINS-fre ... 7C294%3A50

Also, is this that super widescreen version you were talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARY-POPPINS-JULIE- ... .m20.l1116

I saw that one too... $10 was an estimate. It's not a Buy-It-Now (I usually only get BINs), so the price will go up.

I also use LDDB shops, the cheapest there is $20.

And no, that's not the super wide one. That's the OBI, which I believe is 1.85:1.
This has a picture of the super wide one.

--EDIT--

Never mind, that DOES look like the super wide one.
It just has the OBI artwork on the side.

As if you look here, it has the same release number as LDDB has, but the same artwork as the eBay one.

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:11 pm

"The One and Only, Genuine, Original Family Band" 1968 Premiere Release Information

(NOTE: The theatre kit states that the running time of the film is 116 minutes 58 seconds, while the DVD release is only 110 minutes. That is a loss of almost 7 minutes.)

"Mr. Exhibitor - An Important Note
Give your patrons the best possible picture on your theatre screen. For top projection results in the presentation of "The One and Only, Genuine, Original Family Band" you must use aspect ratio 1.85:1"

(NOTE: While the theatrical framing is 1.85:1, the DVD release is 1.33:1)

OK, hm.

There were only two laserdiscs of this. One of them is pan-and-scan (4:3). The other one is completely unknown on both the NL site and LDDB. It's so rare I Googled the print number and nothing came up BUT that site.

I doubt it would be 1.33:1 as they already relased one in that ratio. If anyone thinks I should take a shot in the dark and buy it... let me know.

Unfortunately, I can't find it anywhere. I found the 4:3 print for a few bucks, but it's not really worth anything since it has the 110 minute runtime.

Flanger-Hanger · Post by **Flanger-Hanger** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:44 pm

Chances are Disney has used the same 1.33:1 pan and scan ratio for all releases of the film in all formats like Blackbeard's Ghost. That would explain the consistency in both running time and crappy quality video (sorry Richard, it's no that good). I doubt if that extra 7 minutes even exits anymore, it was probably cut shortly after the premier.

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:31 pm

Got another pressbook in.....

"Amy" 1981 Premiere Release information

"The Aspect Ratio For A Heart-Felt Image Is 1:75 to 1"

(NOTE: This film has yet to be released on DVD. Tell Disney you want it, and released in the proper framing of 1.75:1. Call 1-800-72-34763.)

Let them know you'd like a few bonuses on the DVD as well. Including the 33 minute educational film called "Amy on the Lips" which was released to schools around that time, 2 theatrical trailers (one runs 1 minute 32 seconds, and the other runs 53 seconds), 2 thirty second television spots, and poster art.

Along with this, several bonuses could be produced including a documentary making of feature, a tribute to Vincent McEveety, an audio commentary, and a special feature on the California School for the Deaf (who made up the children performing in this film). Lastly, a special feature on being the first film in the history of cinema to release hard-subtitles prints. For the first time, deaf children could enjoy a Disney film! The subtitles were actually printed on the film prints and those prints received specially advertised screenings in certain theatres so that the hearing impaired and deaf could enjoy this film too.

Once again, that number is 1-800-72-34763.

EDIT: I've gone ahead and added the "Amy" information to the growing list of verified titles. I'll wait until I get a few more before I repost that list in this thread. If you want to see a list of the known theatrical framing ratios, scan page 12 of this thread until you see the list.

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:30 pm

Oh wow, that Amy film isn't even on LaserDisc. Is it at least on VHS?

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:42 pm

"Amy" got a VHS release in 1981 from Walt Disney Home Video. I believe that it had a second VHS release sometime after that because there are 2 seperate Walt Disney Home Video boxes out there.

In the late 1990s, Anchor Bay released a VHS version of this film as well. Ultimately it has never gotten a digital release in any format. I have a DVD copy of it, but it was converted from the Anchor Bay VHS release. There's no way of knowing if it is an open matte fullscreen transfer, or a P&S transfer of the 1.75:1 image.

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:58 pm

Hm, well that kinda sucks.

What's that about, someone who works with deaf children?

But weren't there other Disney movies they kinda forgot about and never released on DVD? I know "So Dear to my Heart" was one for a while, I've even seen bootlegs floating around eBay... but now it has a DMC exclusive. (Though still not the correct ratio?)

I'm really not a fan of the old Disney live-action movies (except the big hits like Mary Poppins), so I'm not after any of them personally. I just like being a collector, especially of rare and hard to find stuff.

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:08 pm

drfsupercenter wrote:What's that about, someone who works with deaf children?

It's about a woman who leaves her husband and runs away from her well-to-do life. She gets on a train and finds a job teaching at a school for the deaf and/or blind. No one thinks that the deaf children can talk, and she goes about trying to prove that they can indeed speak. Her journey in communicating with the deaf children also matures her as an independant woman who realizes she has a purpose in life.

There's also a backstory about how she and her husband had a child that died young and Amy feels guilt-ridden by it and the husband moved on in life easily. Lots of angsty mature melodrama stuff. While her husband is trying to track her down, she has begins to have a romantic relationship with a local doctor who takes care of the children at the school. It all builds up to an ending that defines Amy's independance, strong will, and determination.

It's a really good film, actually. It's pretty 'saccharine' and sweet, and maybe to a fault. I think Walt himself was accused of that several times, though, with films like "Pollyanna" and "Summer Magic".

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:11 pm

Heh, I've never seen Pollyana or Summer Magic either... usually I'm not into those kinda mushy films

But this one actually sounds interesting... I'll see if my local library has that VHS. It's old enough that it was actually made while Walt Disney was alive?

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:15 pm

Oh heck no. "Amy" came out in 1981. Walt had been gone over 20 years. It totally seems like a Walt film, though. I think it's a tribute to the people who made the film...they all worked with Walt and this film is something I could definitely have seen his hand in. People like Vincent McEveety, Robert F. Brunner, Jerome Courtland, etc.

Very good stuff!

EDIT: Someone posted the film up on YouTube. Granted the video quality isn't very good, and it is subtitled but at least you'll get an idea of what the film is like. My DVD transfer of the film looks like it is probably in the framing as the one posted (of course mine is WITHOUT subtitles and better picture quality).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNSM0qPDx1U

disneyfella · Post by **disneyfella** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:37 pm

Finally I have proof that Disney has actually released at least one of their films in their original theatrical aspect ratio on dvd. It isn't a live-action one either.

Despite claims all over these forums (and even hinted at in the actual ultimatedisney.com review as well), it has been repeatedly stated that animated films were intended to be shown full frame (apparently their theatrical run was a mere obstacle to getting their TV-airing/VHS release 25 years later where they were finally shown the way they were meant to be seen.......NOT!).

According to the original pressbook for the premiere of "The Aristocats" in 1970, I quote:

"Mr. Exhibitor The Aspect Ratio for "The Aristocats" For Best Screen Quality Is 175 To 1."

While we all know that you can never trust Disney anymore when it comes to their films and their presentations, the special edition DVD release of "The Aristocats" is actual telling the truth when it says that the original theatrical aspect ratio for the film is 1.75:1.

Check out the ultimatedisney.com review for some comparison pics (and a really good review of the special edition disc....I just wish they would have put more on that disc):

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/aristocat ... ition.html

Knowing now, though, that the special edition disc of "The Aristocats" is actually in its original theatrical aspect ratio (and this disc is currently the only way of watching it in it's original framing), I kind of enjoy watching it more. I don't get pulled out of the movie wondering if it is framed properly....rather I can sit back and enjoy it, knowing that I am watching what any Disney fan would have seen if they went to the theatre opening day.

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60's & 70's Aspect Ratios (from Sword in the Stone)