Song of the South: Too Offensive to Release on DVD?

[disneyfella]

But as a member of an honest-to-God minority here, I have a problem with anything being mass-marketed to people that in any way perpetuates offensive stereotypes of any minority or group of people who have ever been oppressed. It's painful and bothersome.

I know this film makes you angry, but it isn't as if this film was made today. Of course it's going to make you angry......it was made in the 1940s! It's not any big secret that blacks were NOT portrayed well in cinema then. (I would argue they still aren't portrayed well.....did anyone see "The Unborn"? The friend of the main character was one of the worst stereotypes I've seen. She looked like she belonged in a "Scary Movie"...except "Scary Movie" purposefully made the black girl stupid to point out a stereotype in horror films. But I'm getting off topic) That's sort of the whole point of the Civil Rights Movement.

Would you rather this film never see the light of day, and let future generations have no respect for the people who have given their lives for us to be where we are today? Would you rather they not learn from the ignorant mistakes of the past? How will future generations know that this kind of stuff is wrong if they can't learn from others' mistakes?

[Lazario]

In theory, people could learn a lot from Song of the South.

However, I don't think you're being realistic at all. Because I don't think the people who are in a position to teach future generations about what's wrong with this film, would ever learn how to. And they would need to learn, because they sure as hell aren't naturally equipt to. This film shocked me, Disneyfella. And I'm not even a parent!!

My only suggestion to a WDT set would be to keep in in print like a standard DVD and not put a 39,500 limit on the number of copies made or something.

See above, Laz.

But all the other Treasures are out of print. It's not fair to keep 1 in-print and leave all the others unavailable.

[disneyfella]

In theory, people could learn a lot from Song of the South.

However, I don't think you're being realistic at all. Because I don't think the people who are in a position to teach future generations about what's wrong with this film, would ever learn how to. And they would need to learn, because they sure as hell aren't naturally equipt to. This film shocked me, Disneyfella. And I'm not even a parent!!

Why not let one of the best teachers ever do the teaching then. Walt Disney was amazing at being able to teach through entertainment. Perhaps the best way to release this film would be with Disney teaching the children.

I'm not sure that this film should be marketed toward children in the first place, though. As I said earlier, while it is a children's film it could be more harmful to them than entertaining. Rather this is for Disney fans, purists, and film hsitorians. Market the film toward them, and allow the release format (Blu-Ray, DVD, etc.) to include everything that might be helpful in teaching. Set up an adult Disney sponsered website for people to go and discuss these issues. Put documentaries on the disc(s). Apologize before the film. Make it so that people who are watching this movie don't miss the lies in it. Point them out. There's nothing wrong in saying that mis-representation of minorities and the propogation of stereotypes is harmful. What better quality family entertainment could there be than the type that actively points those out?

Then those that choose not to watch the film won't learn anything, and those that do choose to watch this film might have their eyes opened.

Perhaps I'm being a bit optimistic, but I think Disney can do it.

[Flanger-Hanger]

But all the other Treasures are out of print. It's not fair to keep 1 in-print and leave all the others unavailable.

True, but when was the last time Disney did anything "fair" in regards to their movies releases?

I do understand your point about people today being bad teachers, which is why I wouldn't just release the film like you would Dumbo or Cinderella. The WDT crowd already understands the context in which the film is made and wouldn't just buy it for kid(s). They want it for themselves for the nostalgic feel of it and aren't going to lecture their children necessarily on the issues of how races were portrayed in the past.

I do also agree with Disneyfella, to a certain extent. Other races are given much more respects in more areas, but there still are cheap stereotypes of blacks presented on film, and unfortunately, those are the kinds of movies youngsters are more likely to be exposed to (like Scary Movie).

[Lazario]

Why not let one of the best teachers ever do the teaching then. Walt Disney was amazing at being able to teach through entertainment. Perhaps the best way to release this film would be with Disney teaching the children.

You're being optimistic if you think most people will understand what you understand about the movie, just by watching it. This movie is full of very offensive mistakes. Therefore, it would take a lecture feed to an audience both before and after having them watch the film to get the point you have in mind across. This film is history completely out of historical context. So, it perfectly explains itself. But it doesn't explain the bigger issues. It's just another offender.

But just out of curiosity, because I'm not very good at coming up with a lot of examples quickly - what other serious lessons do you think Disney movies have taught people?

I'm not sure that this film should be marketed toward children in the first place, though. As I said earlier, while it is a children's film it could be more harmful to them than entertaining.

At this point, I'm not sure most children wouldn't reject the film totally just based on how dated the film's technology and the characters' lifestyles are compared to whatever new movies and TV shows they watch.

Rather this is for Disney fans, purists, and film hsitorians. Market the film toward them, and allow the release format (Blu-Ray, DVD, etc.) to include everything that might be helpful in teaching.

True, but when was the last time Disney did anything "fair" in regards to their movies releases?

I do understand your point about people today being bad teachers, which is why I wouldn't just release the film like you would Dumbo or Cinderella. The WDT crowd already understands the context in which the film is made and wouldn't just buy it for kid(s). They want it for themselves for the nostalgic feel of it and aren't going to lecture their children necessarily on the issues of how races were portrayed in the past.

I do also agree with Disneyfella, to a certain extent. Other races are given much more respects in more areas, but there still are cheap stereotypes of blacks presented on film, and unfortunately, those are the kinds of movies youngsters are more likely to be exposed to (like Scary Movie).

I always do a Peter Pan on things like this. "Surely" I "can't disagree with that." Well, "I would if I could, but I can't."

I think the worst thing is just that anyone would refuse to see the film for what other people thoroughly understand. That the film is offensive and, at the very least - completely absurd. Even for Disney.

[The_Iceflash]

Why not let one of the best teachers ever do the teaching then. Walt Disney was amazing at being able to teach through entertainment. Perhaps the best way to release this film would be with Disney teaching the children.

Your being optimistic if you think most people will understand what you understand about the movie, just by watching it. This movie is full of very offensive mistakes. Therefore, it would take a lecture feed to an audience both before and after having them watch the film to get the point you have in mind across. This film is history completely out of historical context. So, it perfectly explains itself. But it doesn't explain the bigger issues. It's just another offender.

But just out of curiosity, because I'm not very good at coming up with a lot of examples quickly - what other serious lessons do you think Disney movies have taught people?

I'm not sure that this film should be marketed toward children in the first place, though. As I said earlier, while it is a children's film it could be more harmful to them than entertaining.

At this point, I'm not sure most children wouldn't reject the film totally just based on how dated the film's technology and the characters' lifestyles are compared to whatever new movies and TV shows they watch.

Rather this is for Disney fans, purists, and film hsitorians. Market the film toward them, and allow the release format (Blu-Ray, DVD, etc.) to include everything that might be helpful in teaching.

True, but when was the last time Disney did anything "fair" in regards to their movies releases?

I do understand your point about people today being bad teachers, which is why I wouldn't just release the film like you would Dumbo or Cinderella. The WDT crowd already understands the context in which the film is made and wouldn't just buy it for kid(s). They want it for themselves for the nostalgic feel of it and aren't going to lecture their children necessarily on the issues of how races were portrayed in the past.

I do also agree with Disneyfella, to a certain extent. Other races are given much more respects in more areas, but there still are cheap stereotypes of blacks presented on film, and unfortunately, those are the kinds of movies youngsters are more likely to be exposed to (like Scary Movie).

I always do a Peter Pan on things like this. "Surely" I "can't disagree with that." Well, "I would if I could, but I can't."

I think the worst thing is just that anyone would refuse to see the film for what other people thoroughly understand. That the film is offensive and, at the very least - completely absurd. Even for Disney.

You are making the movie out to be so much worse than it actually is. It's not nearly as "offensive" as you are making it out to me. There are films that are much much more offensive than this and they have seen the light of day.

Perhaps, they fear acknowledging the racism in something that brings them so much joy.

You have got to be kidding.

[Lazario]

You are making the movie out to be so much worse than it actually is. It's not nearly as "offensive" as you are making it out to me. There are films that are much much more offensive than this and they have seen the light of day.

You're right, I'm sure. But this is the one that gets the most attention. Which is relevant to why I decided to take part in the discussion because - 1) I'm a Disney fan, too, but this thing isn't nostalgic or entertaining at all for me, not when it's this darn offensive / 2) I knew of these threads and decided after seeing part of the film that I was qualified to share my opinions.

I'd be interested to know what movies are worse than this. Knowing that might make me less likely to want to get involved in discussions like these. But also, it's very easy for me to see that a lot of people who like Disney don't want to acknowledge their, as Disneyfella said, "ignorance."

[blackcauldron85]

We watched Birth of a Nation in one of my film classes, and it was definitely more offensive than SOTS. And, yes, I have seen SOTS.

As many people will point out when there is a SOTS discussion, a question that should be asked is, "Why is SOTS not available, when Gone With the Wind is readily available?" (GWtW is currently OOP, but it's coming out in a new edition this year.) Is it because SOTS is aimed at children, whereas GWtW is not?

[Lazario]

Maybe it's also because children don't really want to sit through a 4 hour or longer movie. I've seen Gone probably twice. And I've never been able to make it through the whole thing in one sitting.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Maybe it's also because children don't really want to sit through a 4 hour or longer movie. I've seen Gone probably twice. And I've never been able to make it through the whole thing in one sitting.

That's why there's an intermission.

Birth of a Nation glorifies the KKK, even parading them down a street full of cheering people at the end and intentionally shows Blacks as useless, evil, incompetent people in a way that was considered offensive even in 1915! Even the director's maid quit after viewing it and it's shown to encourage enlistment in the KKK. It's considered a very important film in cinema history for it's use of more modern filming techniques but it's deliberately racist as hell.

And it's easily obtainable, legally on DVD and many major DVD stores.

Song of the South (which I suggest you watch in full anyway Laz) at least portrays a happy post-civil war relationship between people of different colours and social/economic backgrounds (white trash kids are in the film too) and is far more pleasing in every respect than BoaN and is also historically significant. James Baxter won a special Oscar for his role and Uncle Remus, making him the first male African American to do so, and it was Disney's first attempt at a substantial live-action film.

[disneyfella]

Why not let one of the best teachers ever do the teaching then. Walt Disney was amazing at being able to teach through entertainment. Perhaps the best way to release this film would be with Disney teaching the children.

But just out of curiosity, because I'm not very good at coming up with a lot of examples quickly - what other serious lessons do you think Disney movies have taught people?

I'm referring to more than just the Disney movies. I'm talking about the Wonderful World of Disney Television show, and all those educational 16mm reels they showed in school (now they show it all on DVD in schools, but you get the idea).

Walt Disney taught everyone, from child to elderly, about atomic and nuclear energy, the history of sports, the history of aviation, the history of sailing/yachting, the importance of mathematics, the evolution of language, Egyptian mummification; he introduced everyone to the animal world with the True Life Adventures; he taught about STDs and menstruation; he explored other cultures and brought enlightening intelligence with the People and Places programs; most importantly is the history of Walt Disney for teaching that racism and religious prejudice is wrong (this came later in the 1960s).

The point is that the company has a long standing history of teaching through entertainment. "Song of the South" is a perfect opportunity for Disney to bring the discussion to the table about current race relations, and the need for education on this topic.

Perhaps, they fear acknowledging the racism in something that brings them so much joy.

You have got to be kidding.

Why? I wasn't saying this IS the reason. I think it's a justifiable possibility. When people want something so much, often they don't see the inherent flaws in the thing they love.

[DisneyFreak5282]

Rather this is for Disney fans, purists, and film hsitorians. Market the film toward them, and allow the release format (Blu-Ray, DVD, etc.) to include everything that might be helpful in teaching.

I agree.

In my opinion, I think that Disney should just release it. It's obvious that whoever wants it (like us Disney fans and collectors) will buy it, plus some other casual fans might buy it as well (since the well-know "Zip-a-dee-doo-da" is featured in the film). The main reason it's not being released is because of the people who are offended by it. Disney should just release a DVD of the film already, and the people who don't like it or are offended by it should just stay away from it and not buy the DVD. If you don't like the film, what will really be the repercussions of it being released to home video? You might have to see the cover of the DVD when you walk into Best Buy? Oh no!!!! How horrible! If this comes out on DVD or Blu-Ray, Disney could make some serious money. In a way, by not releasing the DVD they are losing money, because when you think of all those bootleggers out there selling DVD-Rs of the film - and all the people buying them because Disney won't release it - it really adds up. Disney, I know that it makes sense to not release it because of everyone who is offended by it, but they should learn to just stay away from it if they are that offended. That may seem logical, but Disney, do not gyp the countless number of people who actually do want to see this film released.

I'm truly sorry if anyone might disagree with me, and my intentions are not to get anyone mad or to get in a fight, it's just my opinion, and I've felt this way for years.

[Lazario]

In my opinion, I think that Disney should just release it. It's obvious that whoever wants it (like us Disney fans and collectors) will buy it, plus some other casual fans might buy it as well (since the well-know "Zip-a-dee-doo-da" is featured in the film). The main reason it's not being released is because of the people who are offended by it. Disney should just release a DVD of the film already, and the people who don't like it or are offended by it should just stay away from it and not buy the DVD. If you don't like the film, what will really be the repercussions of it being released to home video? You might have to see the cover of the DVD when you walk into Best Buy? Oh no!!!! How horrible! If this comes out on DVD or Blu-Ray, Disney could make some serious money. In a way, by not releasing the DVD they are losing money, because when you think of all those bootleggers out there selling DVD-Rs of the film - and all the people buying them because Disney won't release it - it really adds up. Disney, I know that it makes sense to not release it because of everyone who is offended by it, but they should learn to just stay away from it if they are that offended. That may seem logical, but Disney, do not gyp the countless number of people who actually do want to see this film released.

That is an absolutely hilarious paragraph. And technically, I agree with you.

But as for what Disney will officially do, it's probably fitting that the current company doesn't want to be associated directly with anything this shocking.

[LindaMYoung]

I'd be interested to know what movies are worse than this. Knowing that might make me less likely to want to get involved in discussions like these.

There is a series on American television right now that is worse than Song of the South. It's called Under One Roof. The stereotypes perpetuated in this series are more offensive than SOTS. Yet no one protests it because it is supposedly "hip."

I find it offensive and I'm not even African-American.

[Goliath]

There's no doubt in my mind the Disney Team are making the correct decision and that every Black Person in America who finds this offensive is more than jusitified in thinking that.

Yes, the film is racist. But why can't we just take historical films for what they are: a product of its time. Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

But as a member of an honest-to-God minority here, I have a problem with anything being mass-marketed to people that in any way perpetuates offensive stereotypes of any minority or group of people who have ever been oppressed. It's painful and bothersome.

Well, that means we would have to stop releasing almost every movie that has ever been made. Not just the 'old ones', but very recent ones, too. And not only movies that are offensive to black people, but also all westerns (Injuns!), action movies (Arab terrorists!), world war II movies (japanese villains!) all films with a male hero (sexist toward women!), etc.

Very few films would survive using your criteria.

[drfsupercenter]

Yeah, seriously... with movies nowadays such as Harold and Kumar and You Don't Mess With the Zohan...

Both those movies made me laugh but they're horribly racist and stereotypical, so much that they actually banned Zohan in the Middle East...

And they were both pretty successful. So obviously the public just doesn't care.

[DisneyFreak5282]

That is an absolutely hilarious paragraph. And technically, I agree with you.

But as for what Disney will officially do, it's probably fitting that the current company doesn't want to be associated directly with anything this shocking.

Are you being sarcastic? If so, it was just my opinion. Or are you referring the part where I was being sarcastic about seeing the DVD cover? If so, thanks!

with movies nowadays such as Harold and Kumar and You Don't Mess With the Zohan...

I know! It's crazy how people get offended by something like a Disney film like SotS, but not get offended by not only the fact that both are racist and stereotypical (like you said, drf), but also the drug use in Harold and Kumar, and the general craziness of The Zohan. I guess I can kinda see why though, since the Harold and Kumar movies are rated R, and The Zohan is PG-13, and both films are intended for adults, whereas SotS is Disney.

[jeremy88]

Well theres a difference between movies that are intentionally racist/sterotypical(goofy comedies like Harold and Kumar and Zohan movie) and movies that didn't try to be racist, they just are (SOTS) so thats really why people get offended by it, because its not really supposed to be a racist movie it just is.

[drfsupercenter]

Well, it most likely WASN'T thought of as racist at the time. In 1946, any black characters in a movie were usually played in "blackface"... and the theaters were segregated so James Baskett couldn't even go the premiere!

If anything, it was "reverse racist"... portraying blacks in a better-than-ideal way. By TODAY'S standards, obviously, it may be looked on as racist. But I say, so what?

And I honestly can't stand "affirmative action", or any of that. It's actually harder for me, a middle-class white person, to get into a university than it is for a minority... BECAUSE they're trying to accept more and more minorities. How messed up is that? (And that's why I'm glad I did get into my top choice, otherwise I'd be ranting about reverse racism constantly)

[jeremy88]

Thats exactly the issue, back then it was accepted by most because it wasn't "thought" of as racist, but that doesn't mean it wasn't racist it was just a more common thought. It doesn't matter if it came out in 1946 or today its still racist regardless if people thought it was or not. Today people are supposedly treated equal, so of course that old thought of not being racist has changed to "this is racist". I mean hey that would be great if it was finally released on DVD, personally I know Disney wouldn't make an unintentionally racist movie these days so I actually excuse SOTS because of the time period it was made in, but still, releasing this might cause a stir with the company.