The Black Cauldron special edition?

[Neal]

Escapay - could that have been they didn't include the snips from "The Illusion of Life" on Fox/Hound because it alluded to the incorrect aspect ratio?

[Escapay]

Escapay - could that have been they didn't include the snips from "The Illusion of Life" on Fox/Hound because it alluded to the incorrect aspect ratio?

I don't see why they'd withhold the excerpts for that reason. It's an issue that most likely is only a concern for animation aficionados, the Joe Sixpacks and Jane Soccermoms who buy the DVD as a babysitter for their kids couldn't care less (and likely wouldn't be watching the bonus features either). I think it has to do with several things:

1. The DVD producer wasn't aware of "The Illusion of Life" when compiling the special features together. After all, to them making a new DVD is a job, they're not always going to be well-versed in the complete production history of whatever DVD they are making.

2. If they were aware of the F&H segments of "The Illusion of Life", the DVD producer probably figured the "Passing the Baton" featurette was enough, especially since it featured a small portion of the Pearl Bailey excerpt that is in "The Illusion of Life".

3. There wasn't enough in the budget to allow clearance for the use of the episode (be it the whole thing or just the excerpts). After all, someone had to be paid for the "Forest Friendship Game"

4. The DVD producer didn't feel vintage TV special excerpts were worth putting on the DVD, but vintage theatrical cartoons that really have nothing to do with the film must be included. Which is really stupid since several DACs have "Disneyland" excerpts on them (Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Fantasia, Dumbo, Bambi, Alice in Wonderland, Lady and the Tramp, Sleeping Beauty, The Sword in the Stone, and The Aristocats).

5. Disney hates us.

Plus, there's the general assumption that the an audience would prefer newly-filmed bonus footage rather than something old. After all, Disney didn't bother including the vintage making-of tv specials for The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, or The Lion King. In Aladdin's case, they used some portions of the documentary in the new documentary and featurettes, though having the whole 25-minute piece would've been nice too.

If Disney does have the balls to include something worthy (beyond the still gallery) in the Backstage Disney section, I'll eat a straw hat. And post pictures to prove I did.

albert (who likely will not eat a straw hat after all)

[Neal]

I just came up with a theory - is it possible Disney isn't really as cheap, lazy, uncompassionate for the aficiandos, or stupid as we act?

I mean, we all assume Disney either won't pay for all the features to be transfered over, figures they can get away without doing it, or only sees it as important for diehard fans and not the parents who make up such a ratio of their profits.

What if they withold certain special features because they know that incites us to double-dip? What if they are well aware of us crazies who buy a DVD twice or three times for some added features? And therefore, they purposefully choose not to carry over all supplementals from release to release?

[Jules]

What intrigue me most are the promised "deleted scenes". Does this mean the Katzenberg-raped parts of the film will finally be revealed!? (wishful thinking)

[DisneyJedi]

What intrigue me most are the promised "deleted scenes". Does this mean the Katzenberg-raped parts of the film will finally be revealed!? (wishful thinking)

I most certainly hope so! I'm seriously dying to see the deleted scenes!

[Escapay]

I just came up with a theory - is it possible Disney isn't really as cheap, lazy, uncompassionate for the aficiandos, or stupid as we act?

I mean, we all assume Disney either won't pay for all the features to be transfered over, figures they can get away without doing it, or only sees it as important for diehard fans and not the parents who make up such a ratio of their profits.

What if they withold certain special features because they know that incites us to double-dip? What if they are well aware of us crazies who buy a DVD twice or three times for some added features? And therefore, they purposefully choose not to carry over all supplementals from release to release?

That theory's certainly been thrown around before and can probably even be traced back to the Fantasia Anthology boxset where, IIRC, the liner notes by Roy E. Disney actually mention that they had so much to work with that they had to actually leave some material out.

Of course, the difference is obvious between withholding material from that boxset versus withholding material on a single-disc platter like The Fox and the Hound. Both will sell regardless, but only one of them is a more surefire moneymaker that's worth the extra $$$ and effort.

Plus, the "Disney hates us" theory is more fun to bitch and moan about.

albert

[Disney Villain]

Disney Villain - Well, it's amazing! It looks like it could be on a "Disney Villains" merchandise item or on the 'Kingdom Hearts' game case!

So all those villain images are official Disney clipart? I've never seen any of them, before!

Thank you! Yes, it is official Disney clip-art. Disney actually recently just created all new clip-art for the Villains. There has also been a lot of Disney Villains merchandise in retail stores. Disney made Villains backgrounds, clip-art, and even a new logo. I'm hoping this is a sign of things to come. If Disney turns the Villains into a mega franchise like Princess or Fairies, I think I would literally drop dead. I was amazed to find actual, new villain merchandise in Barnes And Noble and Toys R Us. New merchandise includes:

- 2009 Villains Calendar, featuring thew clip-art and backgrounds

- Disney Villains Monopoly, featuring thew clip-art and backgrounds

- Disney Villains Chess & Tic-Tac Toe Game in exclusive tin, featuring thew clip-art and backgrounds

- Disney Villains card games, featuring thew clip-art and backgrounds, and almost every single Disney Villain ever created. One card even had new clip-art of Magica De' Spell on it.

Back on Topic:

I honestly feel Disney withholds all the time, for the sole purpose of future releases. Take for example the Sleeping Beauty Platinum Edition, it featured deleted songs and storyboards for "Holiday" and "Let me Show You A Picture". I find it hard to believe that Disney had no clue this content existed when they were putting together the 2003 Special Edition. Everyone interviewed on the disc seemed to know about its existence.

I recently read "Disney's Lost & Found", a book containing abandoned film and story concepts. There is about a page or two on Sleeping Beauty. On this page, they show rough concept art featuring Phillip on a tree branch looking down at Aurora serenading her. The description says that there was a song written for Phillip to serenade Aurora with, in an early version of the script. Not the Platinum nor the Special Edition even make a note of this.

There was also a concept art image that I've never seen before, but may have been on one of the releases. It features Aurora knitting a picture of Phillip from her room in Stephan's Castle. This most likely goes with the early concept, which had Aurora being contained in her room until after her 16 birthday, as opposed to being hidden in the forest.

Sorry to turn this into a Sleeping Beauty discussion; my point is, Disney withholds content. They have to. There has to be fresh content on future releases. If every single release of Sleeping Beauty, from this point on, contained the same content, there would be little incentive to buy. Would I love to see every single bit of information? Of course, but it makes more sense for Disney to hold back. Think of it as Disney keeping secrets from us. Although, as my sister says, secrets don't make friends.

[blackcauldron85]

I have a headache, so forgive me for not researching who said it, but someone mentioned that Disney isn't necessarily catering to the obsessive Disney fans with each new release. So, with that point of view, even if the same bonus material was on every single release of a movie, people who don't already own the film would buy it regardless (such as parents or new Disney fans who don't have the money or the desire to hunt down an older OOP copy).

But, I agree with what Mike says, which is another point of view. Many fans will even buy a new version of a movie that they already have for only a 6-minute documentary (I'm guilty- I sold my GC TF&tH so I could have the mini-documentary on the 25th Anniversary version), or for only a deleted or alternate scene (I'm guilty- I sold my GC Robin Hood and The Aristocats to buy the new editions).

So, Disney knows that parents and new Disney fans (and people who just enjoy that individual movie) will buy a new edition of the movie if they don't already own it. Disney also knows that the littlest morsel of new bonus material will make many fans buy the new release. So why would they spend all the time and money on digging up or making a lot of new bonus features when they can do minimal work and still sell a lot of DVDs? I wish it weren't that way (as do all of you, I'm guessing!), but that's business for you, I guess. If Disney put out some movies in Treasures-like collections, either limited editions or just significantly higher priced DVDs, with a whole bunch of bonus features, the fans would be happy because they would have the option to buy that version of the movie. Like what Disney is now doing with Wall-e, High School Musical 3, and Bolt, I guess! Yay Disney!

[Mason_Ireton]

So, Disney knows that parents and new Disney fans (and people who just enjoy that individual movie) will buy a new edition of the movie if they don't already own it. Disney also knows that the littlest morsel of new bonus material will make many fans buy the new release. So why would they spend all the time and money on digging up or making a lot of new bonus features when they can do minimal work and still sell a lot of DVDs? I wish it weren't that way (as do all of you, I'm guessing!), but that's business for you, I guess. If Disney put out some movies in Treasures-like collections, either limited editions or just significantly higher priced DVDs, with a whole bunch of bonus features, the fans would be happy because they would have the option to buy that version of the movie. Like what Disney is now doing with Wall-e, High School Musical 3, and Bolt, I guess! Yay Disney!

I agree with Amy's view, back in Oct. I ran into this problem with Sleepin Beauty. I was aware that I owned a prev. copy and like most people I waited for the reviews/list of "New" bonuses sure enough they were new and I decided to buy it mainly out of annoyance and the fact that I couldn't skip a Platinum once I started the collection. As of now I have no idea what to do with my prev. copy of S.Beauty.

On Topic I'm quite pleased with the fact of Black Caludron recieving a special editon, hopefuly a proper restoration and a "possible" behind the scenes feature.

[Goliath]

If Disney put out some movies in Treasures-like collections, either limited editions or just significantly higher priced DVDs, with a whole bunch of bonus features, the fans would be happy because they would have the option to buy that version of the movie. Like what Disney is now doing with Wall-e, High School Musical 3, and Bolt, I guess! Yay Disney!

Wait, wait, wait... Time out! Disney treats High School Musical on DVD better than their Classics Dumbo and The Rescuers?

[Neal]

Disney Villain - they dropped the Enchanted Tales line for the "Evil Tales" line, haven't you heard?

The first installment of the new direct-to-DVD and Blu-ray line features the first all-new Queen Grimhilde and Maleficent stories in segments respectively called "The Birth of Evil" and "The Witch's Wish". The Grimhilde segment is a prequel to 'Snow White', the Maleficent segment is a midquel to "Sleeping Beauty".

[DisneyJedi]

Disney Villain - they dropped the Enchanted Tales line for the "Evil Tales" line, haven't you heard?

The first installment of the new direct-to-DVD and Blu-ray line features the first all-new Queen Grimhilde and Maleficent stories in segments respectively called "The Birth of Evil" and "The Witch's Wish". The Grimhilde segment is a prequel to 'Snow White', the Maleficent segment is a midquel to "Sleeping Beauty".

.......... You're.............. joking, right?

[Neal]

No. It was in a post on Blue Sky Disney about how with four more Tinker Bell films coming up, Lasseter's staunch "death to the DTV" stance has softened and is almost gone entirely.

[Jake Lipson]

This is a very pleasant surprise. I would be thrilled with a vanilla reissue of the original disc but with anamorphic enhancement - the inclusion of any extras is an even bigger treat. This was wonderfully shot and I can't wait to watch it in 2.35:1 for the first time on my big 16x9 TV.

Now who would have thought The Black Cauldron would end up with a special edition before The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Hercules?

Ah well, this is one of those I least expected to receive an upgrade until they had exhausted all the other options in their library. So I'm not complaining.

[Escapay]

Wait, wait, wait... Time out! Disney treats High School Musical on DVD better than their Classics Dumbo and The Rescuers?

Kinda makes you wish those two films were shortliving flavors-of-the-week that in five years Disney wouldn't give a damn about, just so that they get two-disc DVD treatments.

Still, even the HSM two-disc sets are not all that great, but unfortunately the general public are of the belief that a substandard two-disc set is better than a well-done single-disc set, simply because there's another disc. I mean, just compare Disney's rather redundant two-disc set for The Princess Diaries versus the well-made single-disc release for Dumbo. TPD never screamed "I need a re-release" and it got one simply to promote TPD2, all by adding a couple anemic bonus features and spreading the modest selection there already was to begin with across two discs with a useless fullscreen version of the film. Whereas Dumbo consistently had a nice selection of features in both its DVD incarnations (though the BTE disappoints slightly by its loss of some material, though it gained new stuff that some fans may appreciate): John Canemaker commentary, a 14-minute featurette (which serves as a de facto documentary, despite its more appreciative nature), a healthy selection of artwork and other stills, and a modest-but-relevant selection of vintage TV/theatrical material. The only thing it really needs is a definitive 45-minute making-of documentary and maybe a couple deleted scenes (compiled via storyboards or something), and if Disney ever re-issued the title with that stuff, it'd all still fit comfortably on a single disc.

I can't wait to watch it in 2.35:1 for the first time on my big 16x9 TV.

You'll be waiting a mighty long time as any proper widescreen presentation should be in the film's 70mm 2.20:1 ratio, Jake.

Now who would have thought The Black Cauldron would end up with a special edition before The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Hercules?

I'd have thought they'd save a TBC re-release until they did everything else. But I'm glad they're re-releasing it, if only for anamorphic enhancement and restored picture.

Plus, it did hit DVD before The Hunchback of Notre Dame. So it already trumped that movie in one instance.

Here's hoping when The Hunchback of Notre Dame comes up for re-release all/most of the laserdisc material gets ported over a la Pocahontas.

albert

[Jake Lipson]

Okay, my ratio mistake...

And what burns me about Hunchback is that it is just sitting there. They originally announced it as coming in single and double-disc configurations similtaneously but pulled down the specs for the 2-disc version a couple of hours later. I think most of the laserdisc material was included in the specs list...alas...

Not to mention Hercules needs to have a 16x9 transfer...

[totallyminnie86]

Wow, wow, wow!!! I decided to come by and check things out around here, I feel like its been a little too long since I have, probably like over a week! Anyways, why am I rambling on? Oh, its because I'm Shocked! and Soooo excited!!!! No way is this happening. I noticed in the first post that this thread started ages ago, and now lo and behold I click on it to find that the news has broken that the DVD is actually being produced, what a pleasant surprise!

I usually click on any thread about TBC anyway, this film has always intrigued me. All I can say as that I'm the most excited I have been about a DVD in ages. Even if its a vanilla version, that is ok, but the notion that there are deleted scenes included, oh goodness, we all know what that may be - and Escapay ( I think it was you) I totally agree to the comment about hoping for it to be actual cut animation (We know its out there, you can't hide it! "P) and not the usual storyboard stuff. I'm a big TBC fan, so here's hoping for the best!

On a side note, I'm really hoping for a Hunchback release now. Tonight I re-watched that movie for the first time since I had seen it as a kid in its theatrical release. It was such a treat. I didn't notice at the time what an incredible work of art that movie was.

[2099net]

Back on Topic:

I honestly feel Disney withholds all the time, for the sole purpose of future releases. Take for example the Sleeping Beauty Platinum Edition, it featured deleted songs and storyboards for "Holiday" and "Let me Show You A Picture". I find it hard to believe that Disney had no clue this content existed when they were putting together the 2003 Special Edition. Everyone interviewed on the disc seemed to know about its existence.

I recently read "Disney's Lost & Found", a book containing abandoned film and story concepts. There is about a page or two on Sleeping Beauty. On this page, they show rough concept art featuring Phillip on a tree branch looking down at Aurora serenading her. The description says that there was a song written for Phillip to serenade Aurora with, in an early version of the script. Not the Platinum nor the Special Edition even make a note of this.

There was also a concept art image that I've never seen before, but may have been on one of the releases. It features Aurora knitting a picture of Phillip from her room in Stephan's Castle. This most likely goes with the early concept, which had Aurora being contained in her room until after her 16 birthday, as opposed to being hidden in the forest.

Sorry to turn this into a Sleeping Beauty discussion; my point is, Disney withholds content. They have to. There has to be fresh content on future releases. If every single release of Sleeping Beauty, from this point on, contained the same content, there would be little incentive to buy. Would I love to see every single bit of information? Of course, but it makes more sense for Disney to hold back. Think of it as Disney keeping secrets from us. Although, as my sister says, secrets don't make friends. :|

I'm not going to argue against the fact Disney holds stuff back in general, but I think its a little harsh on Disney to accuse them of deliberately holding stuff back on the initial 2 disc Sleeping Beauty.

Disney most likely HAS to hold stuff back - after all, including it requires time for research, preparation and authoring. Not to mention actual physical space on the disc too.

The 2 disc Sleeping Beauty had to appeal to a wide audience, so stuff like sing-a-longs, new music videos and games were [almost] just as valid as deleted songs when it came to deciding what to include on the set. Also, since that was released, encoding and compression has improved, meaning more could be fitted on the new Platinum DVDs. I think I read somewhere that in general compression is said to improve between 5%-10% year on year due to improved toolsets being developed.

I'm pretty sure that the 2 disc Sleeping Beauty was virtually crammed to bursting point when it was made. It has more content than Platinum editions of the time, and I don't think if quite fair to say stuff was purposely left off for the sole reason of having an eye on the future re-release.

But yes, Disney leaves stuff off. It's obvious to anyone who has the Cars Blu-ray that the CineExplorer track with John Lasseter is just an audio commentary. And hey presto, the UK press release mentioned the DVD having a John Lasseter audio commentary track. Looks like Disney was going to have it on the DVD, but pulled it for the Blu-ray. The same could be said about the Chicken Little commentary on that Blu-ray - I'll have to listen again, but if I remember correctly it was recorded before the film's general release. Enchanted too, has a DVD which screams "A better one will be along later." I'm sure that there's countless others too.

But also remember not every re-release gets something new - so a holding stuff back isn't required for future releases. Sword in the Stone actually had less on the re-release (unless you count silly set-top games). I think the Aristocats was the same archive/making of content wise - the only difference was virtual kittens.

One of the major selling points of the Blu-ray Sleeping Beauty is an all new CineExplorer track (basically an all-new commentary with orphan images and short clips - not really material "held back"). Another is the all-new "making of" documentary (because its in HD). Again, not stuff "held back".

As for the Black Cauldron, Disney released a non-anamorpthic release in most countries, but for some reason the French (and Thailand ?) got newly restored anamorphic transfers on their DVDs. Disney could have easily given them the same old lesser quality transfer and "held back" the new one for the eventual re-release. But they didn't.

I don't think its as easy to say Disney purposely leaves stuff off - it seems more complicated than that.

[Goliath]

The first installment of the new direct-to-DVD and Blu-ray line features the first all-new Queen Grimhilde and Maleficent stories in segments respectively called "The Birth of Evil" and "The Witch's Wish". The Grimhilde segment is a prequel to 'Snow White', the Maleficent segment is a midquel to "Sleeping Beauty".

I thought Lasseter had stopped all direct-to-dvd productions?

Even if its a vanilla version, that is ok,

What is a 'vanilla version'?

I think the Aristocats was the same archive/making of content wise - the only difference was virtual kittens.

Was the 'deleted scene' featuring the song "She never felt alone" already on the previous release?

[my chicken is infected]

"Vanilla" is often used as slang for something being bland or plain or barebones.