Alice in Wonderland (Live-Action)

[Thomas J]

I don't know if I'm really curious or really scared after seeing that picture.

Maybe a bit of both...

[Elladorine]

It somehow doesn't look as scary when it isn't blown out beyond its original size:

[Jack Skellington]

I like it, I don't want to compare this to the animated version, it's a Tim Burton movie, Strange is Normal and Normal is Strange.

[akhenaten]

i havent read the novels but i remember watching an old live action movie and im excited to see burton's take on the ..turtle with wing? or something like dat?

[Disneykid]

Disneykid, well, what do you think, and also, what was it that said the actors would be mo-capped? I swear there really was something confirming that some human characters would be CGI...? Though I like them not being CGI...though, like you said, everything in CGI other than Alice would alienate her further to cool effect.

Well, I think the pre-Wonderland scenes are going to put Alice through quite a bit of turmoil. I don't know any plot details from that first act, but something tells me whatever she experiences in the real world is going to have a very direct effect on her Wonderland experience (think MGM's The Wizard of Oz or Universal's Peter Pan). This IS just a dream, afterall, so if she's going through emotional distress in her life, it's bound to result in nightmares (or at least, something really dark and twisted).

I really like nomad's idea of having the characters dark but the environment colorful and surreal. Alice spends quite a bit of the story alone, especially towards the beginning. It would make sense that, subconsciously, she'll want to escape to a livlier world than her own, only to have her reality come back to haunt her through the Wonderland residents she keeps running into.

As for the extent of the motion capture technology, it was never actually confirmed that the humans would be CG. A fan who was watching the filming of the real world sequences in London was talking to a security guard, and the guard mentioned we'll never actually see Johnny Depp or Helena Bonham Carter themselves in the film. Now, that makes perfect sense for Helena. The Red Queen should be a living chess piece, so I expect for something like that to be CG (and with a good resemblance to Helena, of course). The Johnny aspect was what surprised me when I first heard it. Now that we know for (mostly) certain he'll be seen live, either the security guard was misinformed, or Burton changed his mind after some experimentation. For all we know, he may try to mess with our heads by having only some humans CG and some real so that there's no consistency for us to latch onto. I honestly don't think we'll know for certain how the two mediums will be blended until an official promo pic is out, and that's not going to happen till probably summer of next year.

[Disney Duster]

Wait, it really was a dream in the books? I thought that was the Disneyized version. She wakes up from Wonderland originally? What about Looking Glass Land?

Lively colorful Wonderland...dead, drab Wonderlandians? I'd rather not, but if he's doing it with a not-just-to-look-gcool purpose and makes it work, okay. I admit Disneykid's reasoning could work if played that way. Alice tries to enjoy the beautiful, playful setting...but those characters keep ruining it.

And the idea of it being the events beforehand that affect her mind, and dreams, makes sense, and sounds great, also.

That info about not seeing the actual actors was exacty what I was talking about. The thing is, I thought we got news Helena would be The Queen of Hearts after all, not a chess piece (ew, Anne Hathaway will be a chess piece?!).

[Disneykid]

Yeah, it was just a dream in the original books. In Wonderland, the book ends with the card army throwing themselves at her. As she swipes them away, she suddenly finds herself with her head on her sister's lap, surrounded in leaves. In Looking Glass, her royal feast goes berzerk, and she angrily starts shaking the Red Queen thinking her to be the blame. Then she finds herself back at home shaking one of Dinah's kittens instead. I guess if one wanted to, they could see both adventures as having actually happened, but Carroll gives no evidence for this. Maybe Burton will do differently.

And the whole Queen of Hearts/Red Queen thing in this film is just as vague as the motion capture/live-action debate. When Helena was first announced, articles kept referring to her as the Red Queen. When Crispin was announced as the Knave of Hearts, then Helena was referred to as the Queen of Hearts. All we know for certain is that the two characters will be combined and that she'll be the sister of the White Queen. What she will be called and what she'll look like are still up in the air. This is what the Red Queen looked like in the book:



This design can easily be implemented to live-action (it's been done before, such as in the CBS mini-series), but somehow I think they'll go the CG route there. She IS supposed to be a chess piece rather than a human, after all.

If, however, Helena's being called the Queen of Hearts, then I could more easily see them using her live on set ala Johnny and Mia. What this means for Anne's White Queen is uncertain. I wish Tim would have a Q&A session about this film or something. Disney's been awfully hush-hush about everything.

[kbehm29]

I just wanted to point out that this movie has caused intelligent and respectful conversation in a thread that is reminiscent of Ultimate Disney of old (I was a lurker long before I started posting a few years ago). I'm so glad that we have something new and fresh to discuss. I get excited whenever there's an update to this thread.

[Disney Duster]

Wow, thanks kbehm, even though I know you were talking about the whole thread! I'm glad it's like this, too!

And thanks Disneykid! Hm...maybe I'll re-read, or re-read some parts of the Alice books...maybe, somehow.

As for the Red Queen's design, I actually was thinking I would have a live human hopping with a chess piece bottom, and maybe paint the actress red, but if the book really says she's just a live chess piece...I hope the CGI is really good...CGI can look so bad and fake...

[Disneykid]

Well, I think the filmmakers can get away with a fake-looking Red Queen since she IS made of painted, polished wood, afterall. The glossy CG look would work just fine.

Now here's some interesting news. According to this article, the film isn't being shot in 3-D. Instead, it's being shot traditionally with the 3-D applied in post-production. I don't know how I feel about this. I've never seen a 2-D movie converted to 3-D before, so I don't know how the results compare to something natively done in 3-D.

Here's one aspect of the article that peaked my interest: "Now that news lends itself to a number of issues: Will the final result be inferior to a classically shot end to end 3D production? Will the 2D material seem flatter than the 3D CGI that is being created for backgrounds and Johnny Depp's Mad Hatter - even with post production?"

This is the second time we've heard that Johnny won't be seen live (the first time coming from the security guard). I'm now beginning to wonder if the photo we've seen of Johnny is a test for the CG character design rather than a test for his live part. The Beowulf DVD showed some of the actors (notably Anthony Hopkins) fully decked out in costumes and make-up just for the sake of testing the look. Perhaps Johnny will be CG, after all, albeit with a look patterned after that photo. If that's the case, it (re)raises the question of how much of this film is live and how much is CG.

Curiouser and curiouser...

[kbehm29]

Curiouser and curiouser...

You're awesome. Alice's Adventures in Wonderland is one of my favorite books of all time.

But I don't want to go among mad people.

After this, I should think nothing of falling down stairs.

[Disney's Divinity]

It somehow doesn't look as scary when it isn't blown out beyond its original size:

I'll have to see this (either in theaters or rented). I know the Burton style of things is kind of a bit old and expected at this point, but I've always liked the twisted versions of Alice better than the colorful, dreamy versions anyway.

[Disneykid]

A ton of news has flooded in lately.

First off, Michael Sheen is not playing the Cheshire Cat, afterall, as was reported. He's not able to disclose what part he's got, but rumors are saying it's the White Rabbit (though I still insist he's got a March Hare vibe about him).

Second, and Disney Duster will be happy to hear this, Anne Hathaway confirmed that the White Queen will be her in a costume, not affected by CGI at all. The Red Queen/Queen of Hearts/Whatever they're calling Helena Bonham Carter's character will also be live, but with her head blown up three times its actual size.

Alan Rickman's Caterpillar will have his face, but it's not yet clear if it'll be his live face or a CG motion capture one.

The March Hare will be 100% CGI rather than a blend of CG and live-action as with Helena and Alan. No word, yet, on who's doing the voice (and presumably, the motion capture).

All of these news posts can be found here: http://www.timburtoncollective.com/tbcnews.html

There's also an anonymous person there posting supposed plot info and casting. I, personally, don't believe it, but I have to admit there are some weird coincidences considering the guy posted this stuff back in October (someone on IMDb collected all his tidbits for the sake of convenience):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1014759/boa ... /124526749

[Disney Duster]

Oh, thanks Disneykid! Yes this is a lot of news!

I was happy to hear that chess piece Anne wouldn't need CGI, but I realize I don't really like CGI at all unless it looks so good I can't tell. Hopefully Helena is the Queen of Hearts, or if she's the combo Red Queen of Hearts or something, that her CGI enhanced head won't completely mismatch with Anne.

I think things will work out. The only thing I'm fearing is telling what's CGI and what's not, and how good the CGI looks. Because noticeable CGI in a live-action film can certainly ruin a bit of the magic, and believability, and seriousness.

I won't read all that plot and casting stuff. It could very well be rumours, and I don't want to find out too much for now even if it's true.

I still wish Burton was doing both books, in order, the first and then the sequel, but this is what he wants to do, and I want to see what he wants to do, it's best if we see what he artistically wants, not something others want just directed by him. Unless of course Disney or someone actually told him want to do and he's just making it as much his own as he can! Well, I bet he has almost complete control, I mean he's Tim Burton. I wonder who even wanted to do Alice. Disney, who then asked Burton, or Burton wanted it all on his own? But this looks interesting and cool as it is, is the point.

[Disneykid]

I wonder who even wanted to do Alice. Disney, who then asked Burton, or Burton wanted it all on his own? But this looks interesting and cool as it is, is the point.

As far as I can tell, it was Disney's idea, and they approached Tim Burton about it. When the movie was first announced, all that was known for a long time was that Linda Woolverton would be writing it. Tim wasn't announced till several months later.

[supertalies]

I still wish Burton was doing both books, in order, the first and then the sequel, but this is what he wants to do, and I want to see what he wants to do, it's best if we see what he artistically wants, not something others want just directed by him.

You know? I think the movie will be a sequel to both books, rather than a direct adaptation.
This would explain the older Alice.

[PeterPanfan]

The movie is going to be an adaption, not a sequel.

I'm ecstatic that it will be the real Anne! She's one of my favorite actresses, and I would hate to put her good looks to waste.

[kbehm29]

I am very surpised that the page on this movie on the imdb website still shows as in-development, without any details to the general public. There has been enough publicly announced, I would gather, that the page should be visible to all by now.

[supertalies]

The movie is going to be an adaption, not a sequel.

Ok, sorry, I was just posting my thoughts, I mean, the story doesn't sound like the novels to me, you know.

[Disney Duster]

Thanks Disneykid. I'll probably be saying that a lot in thsi thread...

Yea supertalies, and with knowing that Disney wanted to do a live-action Alice in the first place, that also shows us this will be an adaptation of Alice in Wonderland, yes, with some new, changed, and rearranged story and characters, but it's all just Tim Burton's very different take on the two books.