Disney Debates # 7: Films or Theme Parks?

[PrincePhillipFan]

I'm sorry if it seemed like I misread your post, Disney Duster. I understand you saying that the stories for the attractions may not be as involved as a film, but that's kind of an impossible thing to compare. With a movie you have as much time as you want to to fully tell a story. With a theme park attraction, you have only so much time, so many of the stories and the characters have to be instantly readable when you see them. That's a main reason why I love the parks is because so many of the attractions give me, yes maybe a short story, but still an original story with original characters and an experience that you can't find in a film, like Pirates of the Caribbean, the Haunted Mansion, or Carousel of Progress. Also, what I enjoy about the dark rides is that many of the older original Fantasyland dark rides focused on one aspect or feeling of the film, and went along with creating new scenes based around it.

For instance, they took the whole grim feeling of Snow White and simply decided to focus on that aspect of the film for the original Snow White's Adventures, showing the dark highlights of the movie, but also adding original scenes that weren't found in the film. It wasn't until recently is seemed like Imagineering has been making many new rides based only on films, and showing rehash of highlight scenes. That's what makes me slightly bitter about the company now, but hopeful when an original attraction like Expedition Everest opens.

Sorry PPF but I don't find the Theme Parks very magical, it's just a big hassle to put yourself there and let yourself "expierience" the film if it's so short a ride and such a long wait. I find that with a bit of imagination and surround sound stereo I can surround myself at home better than I can there. By watching the film I can see what's happening on the screen and hear it all around me. While on a ride you just zoom along and hope you get all the sights and sounds in on the first go (at least from what I remember).

I know how you feel. It's sometimes very hard to try and get a fully immersive experience when you have people like that, but I guess I'm just one of those people who never try to let them ruin my fun. I often just ignore them, and focus on the fun I might be having on an attraction with my friend of family.

Although I think what you said about the attractions is what Walt had wanted. He purposefully added so much detail and characters that you might not catch on your first time through, so that when you go back again, you have the fun of catching something that you have never seen before. The same can be said sometimes for a film. Many animators might often add a certain facial expression on a character or something that a character does that you might not have noticed before on your first time viewing.

Prince Philip is one of those, I believe, who doesn't understand what this thread is all about. It is more about what gives more moments to remember than trying to figure out where all of our money went.

I think I'm pretty sure what this thread is about. I thought we were supposed to be judging which we like better simply on the merits of how the parks or the films make us feel. Not just which one would be cheaper for me to do. And I think the park does give us moments to remember, especially on many of the classic attractions. Many of my very first impressions and memories of Disney stem from me visiting the Haunted Mansion or Snow White's Adventures when I was four. If people didn't have any memorable moments on some of the rides, then I doubt there would be so many repeat visitors like the park has.

I, for one, do not base my opinions of the theme parks off of cash. I base them off of my experiences there.

When you watch films, you're usually left with the feeling that you want to be in that world.

When you're in a theme park, you ARE in that world. Money doesn't matter, I just love being in the parks. It IS magical. Walt Disney touched it! It's his invisioning of the park. Sure, he invisioned the films, but I'm sure there were some things left out that he wanted to be in. He COMPLETELY built the park how he imagined it. That's what makes it so special to me.

Exactly my point, PeterPanFan. I thought this thread was just to judge which you prefer based on the final product, not you dislike the parks simply just because you can't afford to go to them. Of course a movie is always going to be cheaper than a theme park. But then again, we go back to square one like I said, I don't get how you can compare the two. If you like watching the movies more than going to the theme parks that I can accept. But to compare the two are apples and oranges. One is something you watch on a screen, and another is a three dimensional experience. It's like trying to compare Silly Symphony cartoons to Disneyland/Buena Vista Records of the 1950s and 60s. They're both two drastically different parts of the company that have something special to them in their own unique way.

[Prince Edward]

I voted films. I have been to Disneyland Resort Paris three times and have a dream about visiting every Disney-resort in the world (the Disney-parks are such charming and magical places), but without Disney's movies/cartoons/comics and the characters from those there would have been no magical Disney-parks. Only regular amusementparks without the "Disney-touch".

[Disney Duster]

The same can be said sometimes for a film. Many animators might often add a certain facial expression on a character or something that a character does that you might not have noticed before on your first time viewing.[/b]
Really glad you said that!

I, for one, do not base my opinions of the theme parks off of cash. I base them off of my experiences there.

When you watch films, you're usually left with the feeling that you want to be in that world.

When you're in a theme park, you ARE in that world. Money doesn't matter, I just love being in the parks. It IS magical. Walt Disney touched it! It's his invisioning of the park. Sure, he invisioned the films, but I'm sure there were some things left out that he wanted to be in. He COMPLETELY built the park how he imagined it. That's what makes it so special to me.

First of all, think about wanting to be in the worlds, then being in them. The rides based on films don't let you visit all the parts, or even all the places of the films. You can see everything, and much longer, in the films, even pause them no to do some better inspecting. And in the Peter Pan ride aren't you just looking at far awar 3-D versions of the film's fantastic places? And you pass it by in seconds. While in the films, the characters spend longer times in one place, and you see them near different parts of those places. With the characters going through a story in the places, you can in fact explore those places more.

Second...UM...HOW do you know that Walt Disney completely made the parks the way he wanted more than the films? The films had directors and animators doing different things, but all in the vision of Walt Disney and with his approval. The same went for the parks, like Marc Davis, an ainimator of the films, designed and came up with his own things for some rides. I'd say Walt probably has just as much, or less control on the parks than the films. Why less control? Because they're so much bigger than a film, harder for one person to control. And I'm pretty sure way more people worked on the parks than the people required to work on a film.

Anyway, I would rather see something that had lots of, or more equal input from other people, not just Walt Disney. Having something that feels like the work of many instead of the work of just one is, well, better. And if the films indeed have more from other people than just Walt, because they sneak it in those millions of background and drawings, or however else, that's good!

Fine, apples and oranges. But when people go saying they love one more than the other, and they're all related in this company, comparisons are invited!

Here's the thing: If you'd rather go to an amusement park than watch a movie, it's a big duh what you'll pick.

So I guess we could compare the parts of the films and the parks that are alike. The story, the art, the music, the characters, the emotions. Which is what I did. And in these ways, they can be compared.

[DisneyFanatic]

I know the point is to choose between the two...but I can not.

I love the theme parks because I feel like I can really escape the everyday things and relax. The park experience is so wonderful...the rides, the cast members, the churros (I know that's lame...but I always have to get one), I even love to browse the stores when I can't get anything. I can wear the ears and feel like a kid again in my ability to really enjoy the excitement of the parks.

I love the movies (AND classic shorts) because I can view them at home and whenever I want. The movies also make me feel like a kid again and bring some nostalgia for me. I love the songs, the animation, the sound effects (primarily in the shorts), everything about them.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

I, for one, do not base my opinions of the theme parks off of cash. I base them off of my experiences there.

When you watch films, you're usually left with the feeling that you want to be in that world.

When you're in a theme park, you ARE in that world. Money doesn't matter, I just love being in the parks. It IS magical. Walt Disney touched it! It's his invisioning of the park. Sure, he invisioned the films, but I'm sure there were some things left out that he wanted to be in. He COMPLETELY built the park how he imagined it. That's what makes it so special to me.

That's funny because last time I checked money DID matter.

How do you get to California or any of the other theme parks? Money

How do you get into said theme parks? Money

Buy Souveniers? Money

Go on the attractions just to surround yourself in the world? Money

Stay at the theme parks for more than one night? Money

Hmm seems like Money does matter, it costs way to much money to surround myself in the parks and to have a magical time there. Like I said I could get together all my friends and family and throw a big themed costume party for less than that and be surrounded by whichever Disney world I choose and I get to create the world in my vision when putting it together.

Looks like the price of having a magical time has gone up too much, not very magical if you have to spend so much for a few nights there.

I agree with dvdjunkie, you can just put in a dvd and have the same good time for less money at home.

Sure it's really nice to be at the theme park walking down Main Street, watching a parade or a show in person but it's just not a reality for everyone these days. The next time your there having a magical time think of everyone that's not there who would give anything to be there but can't because it's just too expensive for them to go and have a magical time like your having.

I also agree with Disney Duster, by watching the films you get a much bigger look at the worlds and thanks to the Pause Button you can stop it at anytime and investigate the backgrounds and the surroundings. Thanks to the Bonus Features (depending on the dvd) you can look through the Still Pictures and see the backgrounds without pausing, or watch deleted scenes for glimpses at the world that could have been.

Personally I would give anything to go back to Disneyland even for two days with my family and have the most magical time ever with them and cram as much fun in that one day as I could but the sad reality is I can't afford it, my parents can't afford it, nobody in my family can we would have to save up all our money and hope we get to be there even for the two days. It would be magical, but magical at a price that we just can't afford to pay right now.

[jeremy88]

and now it cost a $100 per adult to just get into the parks.

Are you FREAKING serious!?!?? *cries* I just went two years ago...and it was only $63 and I was complaining that prices were too high then! Imagine what they'll be in another ten years...My God, now I actually have to save money just to go to Disneyland...

[Daisy Duck]

Are you FREAKING serious!?!?? *cries* I just went two years ago...and it was only $63 and I was complaining that prices were too high then! Imagine what they'll be in another ten years...My God, now I actually have to save money just to go to Disneyland...

Actually I think it's $74 now for a one day adult ticket.

[jeremy88]

Really? Okay, I can breath again lol. I was getting scared there for a second. Still $74 is quite a spike in 2 years. In any case, Thanks Daisy Duck!

[Disney's Divinity]

I wish people would really stop considering the price for an experience a part of the experience. It isn't.

My personal feelings? You get a story from the films and an experience from the parks. No amount of watching a television can make me feel the same as if I were at the park with the air, the sun and the crowd. I'm still attached to the films for the story and for the characters, but you have no control in a film and you can't see or feel anything beyond what the film wants you to see and feel. Which is why I can understand why some find the parks more fulfilling.

I also find it strange how people get so antagonistic in "debates." There are ways to disagree without belittling others. This is part of the reason I avoid them for the most part, as I have a habit of becoming too irritated.

[PeterPanfan]

I, for one, do not base my opinions of the theme parks off of cash. I base them off of my experiences there. ..

When you watch films, you're usually left with the feeling that you want to be in that world.

When you're in a theme park, you ARE in that world. Money doesn't matter, I just love being in the parks. It IS magical. Walt Disney touched it! It's his invisioning of the park. Sure, he invisioned the films, but I'm sure there were some things left out that he wanted to be in. He COMPLETELY built the park how he imagined it. That's what makes it so special to me.
That's funny because last time I checked money DID matter.

How do you get to California or any of the other theme parks? Money

How do you get into said theme parks? Money

Buy Souveniers? Money

Go on the attractions just to surround yourself in the world? Money

Stay at the theme parks for more than one night? Money

Hmm seems like Money does matter, it costs way to much money to surround myself in the parks and to have a magical time there. Like I said I could get together all my friends and family and throw a big themed costume party for less than that and be surrounded by whichever Disney world I choose and I get to create the world in my vision when putting it together.

Looks like the price of having a magical time has gone up too much, not very magical if you have to spend so much for a few nights there.

I said that money doesn't matter TO ME. If I am passionate about something, such as the theme parks, I will spend money to go there. Good for you if you prefer not dishing out the cash, but I like them enough to.

I wish people would really stop considering the price for an experience a part of the experience. It isn't..

Exactly! Why the hell would you base your experiences off of cash, and not the feeling you have when you're there.

[Disney Duster]

PeterPanFan I addressed your whole Walt Disney COMPLETELY whatever the parks, don't know why you're ignoring it except, well, I can understand mayb there's nothing to battle it with. By the way, you say he "actually touched it". Yea, he touched animation cels, too. And yea he touched the parks but how will you know which parts he touched? I suppose you can wonder if the cart your in on a ride was the very one he was in.

Anyway, here's a way money DOES matter. If the movies are less expensive, and also more available to everyone,they must be more important. They are more integral, because they reach more people. Originally, Disney was only going to have the parks in two certain places in the U.S. (thanks for the info Tim, sorry I'm using it this way), but his films got sent out to theaters everywhere, in other countries. This is some special magic that needs to get to everyone, or more people than the parks.

[PeterPanfan]

Walt Disney's opinion isn't mine. My opinion is that I like the parks more, nobody can change that.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

I said that money doesn't matter TO ME. If I am passionate about something, such as the theme parks, I will spend money to go there. Good for you if you prefer not dishing out the cash, but I like them enough to.

Ok so partly my bad I misread your post and didn't see the TO ME part.

I wish people would really stop considering the price for an experience a part of the experience. It isn't..

Exactly! Why the hell would you base your experiences off of cash, and not the feeling you have when you're there.[/quote]


The thing I'm having trouble with is this:

I know that if I got into the theme parks I WOULD have a magical time once I ignored the rude swarms. But I can't get into the parks becuase I don't have the money to get in there. So how in the hell do I have a magical time if I'm stuck OUTSIDE of the theme parks with an empty wallet that won't buy me a ticket in? I do agree that YES once you get in there it's magical it's fun and your having the best time ever but the key words for me are: Once Your In There

I'm not trying to say that you need to be super rich with money to enjoy the parks and do everything in there what I'm TRYING to get across is that you do need the money to get in there to actually get the experience

[Disney's Divinity]

Chernabog_Rocks, I certainly understand your sentiments on the expensiveness of the parks, but you still shouldn't judge the parks themselves based on the price to get inside them. When I get a movie or even a video game, I judge it based on what it shows me. Not what it costs me to see it.

[jeremy88]

Well I love going to Disneyland and California Adventure, hopefully one day I can go to WDW. For me going to Disneyland means escaping from reality. I don't worry about problems, I don't worry about stress, I can really let loose and forget about all of my troubles and remember what its like to be a kid.

I definitely do not consider money and the price part of the experience. I can go to Disney and not buy anything and just enjoy all the free stuff there (the rides, the parades, the shows, etc...) and just the atmostphere of being there, but I don't make a lot of money and can barely pay rent, so just to get into the park is kind of a problem sometimes. But once I'm inside its awesome, its just the price of actually getting to go there is what gets me.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Chernabog_Rocks, I certainly understand your sentiments on the expensiveness of the parks, but you still shouldn't judge the parks themselves based on the price to get inside them. When I get a movie or even a video game, I judge it based on what it shows me. Not what it costs me to see it.

I'm not really trying to judge the parks based off price intentionally, sometimes I just have a hard time explaining my opinions (which is why I often keep them to myself).

I consider the prices a part of the overall experience, and I consider everything else a part of it as well. When I went when I was younger I had a great time and it was fun which is why I want to go back. So I don't really base it off price alone, I haven't been to the parks in ages so perhaps that's why I'm having such a hard time getting some opinions across

[Escapay]

I'm using my sister's laptop since my computer is out of commission at the moment (hard drive got fried, long story), so I haven't really posted at all in the last week and few days. But I get a few chances to read some threads and this one is really interesting, so I thought I'd throw in my $0.02 without treading on anyone's toes/opinions/whathaveyous.

For me, it's split half and half, because as Howard said, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Both have their good and bad factors, but are still inherently different from each other that experiencing one is never like experiencing the other. With some apples, you can get quite a tart taste that some love (like me), along with the ability to mix it with great things like peanut butter, caramel, pies, etc. And with oranges, there's a sweetness and a juicyness to it that makes it taste much better, along with a refreshing beverage in the morning.

But moving on from apples and oranges to Disney movies versus Disney theme parks (which is what I voted for).

I love the theme parks. I'm down there at least once a year (at least since 2003, before that it was once every odd-numbered year), and it's become such a summer staple that I can't ever imagine a summer going by that won't include a trip to Walt Disney World. At the same time, I love the Disney films. Everything, from the mastery that is Fantasia to the adventure that is Swiss Family Robinson, to the timelessness of Mary Poppins, to the perfection of The Rocketeer, and the goofiness found in Chicken Little. I was born and bred on Disney films, and I can probably name more Disney films in a pinch than I could any other studio. Disney is such a big part of my life (perhaps too big, sometimes) that I wouldn't be surprised if I have a Disney-themed Wedding and honeymoon at WDW.

I think, though, that the question presented is too hard to answer without upsetting one group of fans or another. Still, that's what Disney Debates are for, which is why I picked Theme Parks.

Regarding the arguments/concerns about the "cost" of experiencing a theme park, in an ideal world everyone can afford it. In an ideal world, everyone will remember Disney based on their experience, not their credit card bill. However, this world is far from ideal, and that's a sad truth. I don't want to say anything about it because both sides bring up valid points ("you shouldn't factor the $$ in how much you enjoy an experience" versus "According to Disney, you need to be willing to blow off $$$ to *enjoy* their experience"). However, I just want to say that for me, it never was about how much money I was spending to pay for park tickets/food/souvenirs. For me, it was always about the memories I'd have in the park. 30 years from now, I doubt I'll remember how much a Winnie the Pooh spinning light toy cost me at Cast Connection, but I'll always remember that special day in March 2005 when my friends and I were guinea pigs for "it's a small world".

Even though time seems fleeting (it's astounding...time is fleeting...madness takes control...) when I'm in a theme park, I always know it's worth it. And strangely enough, there are several park attractions I enjoy more than the movie that spawned it (or the movie that it spawned).

For example, it's pretty much a given that I dislike Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. I'm not keen on the Shrill's voice, the story is not engaging enough for me even though it has the potential to be, and it feels more like a transitional picture than a full-fledged Disney Animated Classic. And yet, "Snow White's Scary Adventures" is a childhood favorite of mine, regardless how much I may/may not rag on it. There's something just so enjoyable about sitting in a mine car and being taken around a world that you're used to seeing on a television screen. It's not something I can explain, because I enjoy it for what it is, however long or short these trips may be. Plus, there's the evil squirrel to look out for!

I've always been a huge fan of "Pirates of the Caribbean", and I can still remember days when you could just walk right into the ride without waiting more than 10 minutes. As a kid it terrified me, and I'd sit stoic and reserved, hoping the pirates wouldn't notice me. But as time went on, I grew to love it and even looked forward to the movie version in 2003. The movie series is okay for what it is, and I enjoy all three, but none of them really can capture what it is to be sitting in a boat and watching these scenes come at you one by one. And I was really annoyed at the addition of Jack Sparrow and Company to the attractions. I had heard some quiet buzz about it in 2005 when I started my first CP program, and prayed it would be just a rumor that'd die down (like the one about turning Spaceship Earth into a rollercoaster). Unfortunately, it didn't, and come Summer 2006, the new additions were made (and I got to attend castmember previews for it). I didn't care much for the changes (the PC changes made earlier went over my head entirely as a kid so they weren't really things I would complain about), and I feel that it actually hurts the ride a bit. By focusing it all around Jack (with a few scenes still intact and Jack-less), it suddenly turned the experience into a character-hunt. The charm was gone, at least for me.

I think my favorite ride ever in the Disney parks would be "The Great Movie Ride", because it's the experience I look forward to the most. I know I can count on a queue line that I don't mind waiting in ("Gee Mr. Kent, that'd be swell!", "Ethan, no you DON'T!", and "If you knew how much I loved you...how much I still love you" are forever embedded in my mind) a perky tour guide, a tetchy mobster (or cowboy, which is rarer and rarer these days), and that unforgettable montage at the end ("We didn't need dialogue, we had FACES!"). And while it doesn't showcase an entire movie (nor should it, otherwise it'd be a long ride), it does what these attractions do best: show off the best parts, reminding those who've seen it how great it was, or enticing those who haven't seen it to go out and see it. As a little kid, I really had no idea what was so important about the Rick/Ilsa scene in Casablanca, and it wasn't until I was about 14 or so that I finally understood it (as I finally saw the film). And for all its simplicity and the fact that the same lines are repeated that scene has become my favorite in the entire 22-minute (trailers excluded) attraction.

Anyway, that's probably enough about my love for some aspects of the theme parks and why I love them more than the films. However, if I were to tally up my time spent in Disney theme parks versus my time watching Disney films/tv shows/etc., the films would definitely win over. But then again, it shouldn't be about the quantity of time devoted to one or the other, but the quality of the time. With a movie, yes, I can visit it as much as I want (or pause and examine it more closely as Mike said ), but in the parks, it's always going to be a different experience. When I watch Pocahontas, nothing changes beyond my thoughts while watching (one day I could think "geez, this scene is too long", another I could think "wow, I never noticed that thing in the background"). Poca and John won't get together, the music will always make me cry, and the ending will always be bittersweet. But what are the chances that I'll get to ride Space Mountain with the lights turned ON? How many people get their own private (and musicless) fireworks in Magic Kingdom at 1 in the morning? And how often will I stand in line to meet Peter Pan and Wendy, and find that Peter Pan is a girl I met in the Mouseketeria?

Of course, most of my bias towards the theme parks stem from being former castmember, but all the same, I think even without my castmember time, I would still pick the parks over the films. Because even just one day in the parks is a better escape and experience for me than movies ever could be. It's more fulfilling because I know that every trip (as common as they are, or as few and far between as they could be) will mean more to me than watching a movie 50 times within a week.

However, I don't want any of this to seem like I'm not keen on the Disney films. After all, I make it a point to watch my favorite of favorites at least once a month (Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, The Rocketeer, Mary Poppins, etc.), and there are still a sizable amount of Disney material that will always have that "magic" for me (in that I see it as an experience, and not realize it's actually actors and technicians and directors and artists coming together to put still images on celluloid). I try to love the parks and films equally, because they bring their own unique experiences, but I will always favor the parks more, perhaps because their experiences are much more memorable for me. Rarely in my life would I ever say, "well there's a horrible day in the Magic Kingdom that I'll never get back" (and if I did, it was likely work-related rather than play-related), though there have been several notable Disney films where I'd privately think to myself "And that was X-amount of minutes in my life that I'm never going to see again."

Albert

[slave2moonlight]

Can't really choose between the parks or the films. I guess you're less likely to have a bad experience watching the films though, ha. I love them both, and both have times when they seem to be weak and times when they are at their best.

[BrandonH]

I am voting for the parks. It truly is a different experience each time, there is the possibility of meeting cool new people in the stores or in line, and the parks engage all of the senses.

I love both, and I know the parks would not exist as they are now without the movies. However, watching movies is something I can do every week, but a vacation to a Disney park is a magical experience that I can only do every so often.

[kbehm29]

I voted films but if I lived closer than the 150 miles away that I do I'd probably be an annual passholder like blackcauldron85. Even with the limitations (being in a wheelchiar) I love the parks & if I lived 50 miles or closer I could afford to do it (even with the gas guzzling handicapped equipped van I drive). If I lived in Orlando I'd visit the parks every weekend (hell, probably a lot more than that).

Try being 2,051.85 miles away! Yes, I have even made the drive to California MANY times just to go to Disneyland. 3 days cramped in a car. Disney theme parks are SUCH a big part of my life. I can't even explain how often every day I think about being there and wishing that it were easier to get to. I think they are worth every penny of the price increase. EVERYTHING is going up - of course eventually that cost is passed on to the consumer. I have five kids, and even so I somehow find a way to get to Anaheim or Orlando once a year or once every other year. The wait in between trips almost kills me. I'll never forget I was in line to get into Disneyland this past May, and I was talking to the woman next to me and she could not believe that I came all the way from Milwaukee to visit Disneyland. She lived about an hour away and visits the park once a year. I laughed and told her some people come halfway around the world to visit Disneyland, I'm only from Milwaukee!
We can't go again as a family until June of 2010. I'm trying to come up with the money to take one or two of my kids to Orlando in November, but it's not looking good.

I choose theme parks, no question.