Greek/Roman Mythology Discussion

[PrincePhillipFan]

Chernabog_Rocks Pmed me earlier on Friday (sorry I haven’t gotten back to it yet. I hate not having PM on my account ), so I thought I would go and start a thread for discussion on mythology, most specifically Greek and Roman. Although I have a feeling Chernabog and I will be the ones mostly talking in it.

Anyway, I guess I’ll introduce a little how I got into it. I think my first big influence to it actually was a year before Hercules came out, when my fourth grade teacher talked about her trip to Europe over the summer, and told us a few of the mythology stories. I soon became engrossed in learning about ancient Greece and the myths, most specifically about the Gods and Goddesses of Olympus. I became more interested in it once again in around 8th grade when we began to discuss it in our history class and the society of ancient Greece and Rome. I soon gathered up as many books as I could, and learned about the stories of the Olympian gods and goddesses, the great Greek heroes, their story for the creation of earth, the Greek society, love stories and heterosexual and homosexual relationships in myths and ancient Greek society, and others. The one I specifically became increasingly interested in was Apollo, since he was a musician like myself, had a personality that was a lot like mine, described as physically looking similar like me, and the god who had the most homosexual relationships. Many of his stories fascinated me surrounding him, specifically about his relationships with Daphne, Hyacinthus, and Cyparissus. In fact, when my great aunt and uncle went to visit Athens about 6 years ago, they bought me back a necklace that’s a replica of an ancient Greek coin, with Apollo’s face on one side and his music lyre on the other. I still treasure it today and wear it often. In a way too, Greek mythology is part of my religious belief; I like to think of what I believe in as a mixture of both Christianity and Greek mythology.

So, I guess this thread can be open to whatever you want to discuss on the subject. If you want to talk about a favorite mythological story, if you’re interested in it since you’re learning about it in school, or just interested about it. Also if you’d like to ask me any questions on the subject or any stories, feel free to.

[PeterPanfan]

First off, could you please post a photo of that necklace? I'd like to see it.

Anyway, Tim (Or..Howard, whatever), enlightened me with some stories of Apollo and Hercules. I'd always been slightley interested in Greek mythology.

My favorite Gods/Goddesses are:

Aphrodite
Apollo
Athena
Demeter
Hades (I don't *like* him, persay, I just find his stories interesting.
Hera
Hermes
Zeus
Persephone

[Disney's Divinity]

I was extremely interested in Greek Mythology following Hercules' release--it's my second favorite Disney film, so yeah. Of course, the movie only manipulates the film into a Christian perspective (with a Devil, a Father and a Jesus), but it definitely inspired me to care.

Anyway, I liked that the mythology seemed to personify emotions and abstract elements. The Fates always fascinated me the most, what with the significance of three and the authority they had over everyone else. Athena fascinated me as well, considering she was one of the few "goddesses" that didn't seem focused around general feminine facets of life (child-bearing, marriage and love, as examples). Artemis is another one. Poseidon was also interesting, not only because of his representation of the sea, but TLM was somewhat influenced by his lineage in the myths. My favorite "tale" is probably Pandora's Box. I really enjoyed the tales referring to the Titans, as they never really talked as much about them.

It wasn't til I was a bit older that I studied the same-sex undertones that the mythology had, though I tried to avoid the themes of pederasty. As of now though, I'm kind of over my fascination for the myths, as I've read the largest portion of them. I still enjoy them though.

[PrincePhillipFan]

I was extremely interested in Greek Mythology following Hercules' release--it's my second favorite Disney film, so yeah. Of course, the movie only manipulates the film into a Christian perspective (with a Devil, a Father and a Jesus), but it definitely inspired me to care.

I think Hercules probably fueled my love for mythology too. And despite its story being so drastically different than the actual mythological tale, it's still one of my favorite Disney films. My only main quibble is with the designs of Apollo and Hermes. Most of the other gods and goddesses in the film are designed to look like how they are described in mythology, except they are a lot more stylized. I guess I'm more leanent with Hermes design since they more likely designed him after his voice actor Paul Schaeffer. But I was a bit annoyed when they portrayed Apollo as this extremely buff middle aged looking guy in military outfit, when he's always been described as being forever youthful and feminine looking.

First off, could you please post a photo of that necklace? I'd like to see it.

Unfortunately, my stupid digital camera is broken right now and I need to fix it or buy a new one. But I'll try to take a picture and post it as soon as I can.

Anyway, Tim (Or..Howard, whatever), enlightened me with some stories of Apollo and Hercules. I'd always been slightley interested in Greek mythology.

Wow, there's so many stories with both of them I don't know where to begin. There's the stories of course with Heracles birth, Hera trying to kill him, his first wife Megara, his male lover Hylas, and his second wife Deianeira. Not to mention the infamous twelve labors Hera put him through, and his voyage with Jason and the Argonauts. Similiar with Apollo, there's too many stories I can think of right now to tell them all. But I'll try to tell some of them eventually soon. Right now though, here are my two favorite stories involving Apollo.

One of Apollo's male lovers was the young Spartan prince Hyacinthus, son of the King of the Macedonia. Apollo adored the young man and the two of them fell in love together. The story goes that one day the two of them were throwing the discus together, when Apollo, hoping to impress Hyacinthus, threw the discus with all his might. Hyacinthus ran to catch it, however a wayward wind blew it off course, striking Hyacinthus in the head and causing him to collapse. Another telling goes that the wind god Zephyrus himself loved the young man, and purposefully blew the wind to strike Hyacinthus dead to spite Apollo. Either way, Apollo grieved and there cursed his own immortality, wishing to join his lover in death. He refused to let Hades take him, and instead, from the prince's blood, the hyacinth flower bloomed - Apollo's promise he'll live forever and reborn once again.

Another favorite story of mine takes place shortly after Hermes was born. The young god one day snuck over into Apollo's cattle field. Hoping to impress his father Zeus so he could join his rightful place on Mount Olympus, Hermes secretly snuck them out of the field, unaware they belonged to his older half brother. So as no one would find out or trace any evidence of what he had done, Hermes slyly tied branches onto each of their tails, so as to wipe the trail clean. Confused at the disappearance of his cattle, Apollo searched high and low, until finally an elderly man named Battus had told the god that he had seen the theft, and lead him to the cave of Hermes and his mother Maia. Apollo angrily confronted the young boy about it, but Maia stood up for her son, unaware of the act that he had committed and argued how could such a young boy be capable of such a deed. Confused and angry about the situation, Apollo finally called his father Zeus to the cave. Hermes admitted to the deed, and even though Zeus himself was impressed at his youngest son's cleverness, demanded he return the cattle to his older brother. Meanwhile, Apollo had noticed a strange new instrument that Hermes had created earlier. It was a hollowed turtle shell with strings attached - the very first lyre. Being a music lover, Apollo asked if he could have the beautiful instrument. Hermes then made a deal - Apollo could keep the lyre, if he could keep the herd of cattle. Apollo agreed, and the story goes that of being the world's very first business deal.

[Mooky]

I was familiar with Greek Mythology long before "Hercules" hit theaters. I had Gustav Schwab's collection of Greek myths and it was on of my favorite books growing up. I was so obsessed with Greek Mythology when I was younger that I even did a paper on it for my final exam in high school. I still enjoy those stories. My favorite is probably "Arachne".

[PeterPanfan]

Er, Tim, I said that you enlightened me with them, not for you to enlighten me.

[PrincePhillipFan]

Er, Tim, I said that you enlightened me with them, not for you to enlighten me.

D'oh! Sorry about that, Dan. I misread your post.

I was familiar with Greek Mythology long before "Hercules" hit theaters. I had Gustav Schwab's collection of Greek myths and it was on of my favorite books growing up. I was so obsessed with Greek Mythology when I was younger that I even did a paper on it for my final exam in high school. I still enjoy those stories. My favorite is probably "Arachne".

I loved the story of Arachne too. Even though Arachne was kind of boastful, I did feel Athena was a bit harsh though.

Also, while I was browsing though my computer today, I came across the quick outline I wrote a while ago of the "adolescent" Olympian gods and goddesses. I still need to write up ones for the elders Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hades, Demeter, and Hestia. I'll post it here if anyone else would like to read it, and if anyone has anything they'd like might add to help more to it or correct feel free to.


Athena
Athena
Goddess of Wisdom, War, and Crafts
Patron Goddess of Scholars, Philosophers, Craftsmen/women, and Soldiers
Roman name: Minerva
Symbols: owl, olive branch
Daughter of Zeus and Metis
Never married
Personality: Wise, truthful, knowledgeable, yet ruthless in battle
Was known to be fierce in war, but preferred to promote wisdom and reasoning before fighting
Invented many objects including the flute, trumpet, farm tools, and the olive tree
Instructed the arts of cooking, spinning, and weaving
Born from a headache. After devouring her mother in fear of her giving birth to a child that would overthrow him, Zeus later suffered a sever headache - splitting his head open and giving birth to Athena
Considered to be her father Zeus’s favorite advisor
Description: Tall and majestic, with calm graceful features and grey eyes

Hephaestus
God of Fire and the Forge
Patron God of Metalworkers, Blacksmiths, and Jewelers
Roman name: Vulcan
Symbols: Quail, fire, anvil
Son of Zeus and Hera
Husband of Aphrodite
Personality: Modest, helpful, and good-natured
Was regarded as a master craftsman and made beautiful objects and jewelry from gold
Created golden palaces, chariots, weapons, and tools for the gods and goddesses of Olympus
Built all the thrones for the Olympian gods and goddesses
Was originally cast off Mount Olympus by Hera, and raised by the sea goddess Thetis
Description: Plain looking and bearded, and unable to walk from a deformed leg

Ares
God of War and Violence
Patron God of Soldiers
Roman name: Mars
Symbols: Vulture, hound, burning torch and spear
Son of Zeus and Hera
Never married, but had a long affair with Aphrodite, and bore many children with other women
Personality: Boastful, loud, cruel, angry, bloodthirsty, and cowardly
Loved to stir up trouble among mortals, and often appeared in battles, calling for death and blood, but became cowardly when hurt
Detested by all the other gods and goddesses on Olympus, except for Aphrodite who carried on an affair with him
Description: Handsome, athletic, and muscular, yet fierce looking, and outfitted in military garb

Aphrodite
Goddess of Love and Beauty
Patron Goddess of Lovers, Beauty, and Sailors
Roman name: Venus
Symbols: Dove, sparrow, swan, myrtle tree, rose, apple
Had no known parents; she rose out of the sea foam one day
Married to Hephaestus, but had children with many other love affairs, including Ares
Personality: Seductive, laughter-loving, kindhearted, flirtatious, flighty, easily prone to jealousy
Enjoyed helping others in love by helping them to get their heart’s desire
Despite her numerous affairs, she always once again returned to her husband Hephaestus
Description: Devastatingly beautiful, with long blonde hair and bright eyes, and flowers springing up wherever she walked

Artemis
Goddess of Twilight, Wildlife, Hunting, and Chastity
Patron Goddess of Unmarried Women, Childbirth, Hunters, and Wild Animals\
Roman name: Diana
Symbols: man wild animals, especially the deer, cypress tree, wild animals
Daughter of Zeus and Leto
Twin Sister of Apollo
Never married
Personality: Aloof, nature-loving, proud, independent, free thinking, wild and untamed, loving and caring to her brother Apollo, wild animals, and children
Chief huntsmen of the gods
Was an excellent archer and would often travel around with a band of nymphs or her brother Apollo as companions on hunting trips
Took special care of young animals and was the protector of children
Cherished her independence and guarded her privacy fiercely
Description: Beautiful and athletic, with a pale complexion and dark hair

Apollo
God of Light and Dawn, Music, Poetry, Arts, Archery, Healing, and Prophecy
Patron God of Musicians, Poets, Writers, Healers, and Archers
Roman name: Apollo
Symbols: wolf, ox, crow, dolphin lyre, laurel leaves, sun disk
Son of Zeus and Leto
Twin Brother of Artemis
Never married, but had passionate relationships with many young men and women, including the nymph Daphne, the Spartan prince Hyacinthus, and the hunter Cyparissus
Personality: Compassionate, intelligent, cheerful, wise, friendly, tender, sometimes temperamental, loving and caring to his sister Artemis and his lovers
Was close friends with his sister Artemis, who often hunted together
Took great pride in his lyre playing, poetry, and beautiful singing voice
Was an independent thinker, who always advised others to always take things in moderation
Known to be a passionate and caring lover, especially in his male relationships
Helped to heal the sick, and cared for animals, including cattle
Was god of the Palaestra, a gathering place for musicians and young male athletes
Description: Eternally youthful and feminine looking, with a slender build and laurel leaves in his shining hair

Hermes
God of Heraldry, Business, Tricks, White Lies, and Good Luck
Patron God of Messengers, Thieves, Shepherds, Travelers, Merchants, Gamblers, Inventors, and Businessmen/women
Roman name: Mercury
Symbols: Rooster, tortoise, caduceus, winged sandals and cap
Son of Zeus and Maia
Never married, but had many children with other female love affairs, including Aphrodite
Personality: Witty, happy, clever, friendly, helpful, sly, shrewd
Chief messenger to the gods and guider of souls to the underworld
Known to be a very sly businessman, and loved to play tricks on mortals and his fellow half brothers and sisters
Was often sent out on missions from the gods, and enjoyed helping other gods and goddesses and mortals in distress
Description: Young and boyish, often outfitted in a short chiton with a winged cap and sandals

Dionysus
God of Wine, Vegetation, Divine Ecstasy, Revelry, Inspiration, and Religious Mysteries
Patron God of Artists, Actors, and Winemakers
Roman name: Bacchus
Symbols: panther, goat, grape, rose, ivy
Son of Zeus and Semele
Never married, but had many children with nymphs and Aphrodite
Personality: Joyful, pleasure-loving, content, dangerous when opposed, occasionally gluttonous in celebration
Traveled around teaching his art of growing grapes and fine wine making
Would often host great drunken revelries in the woods with mortals and nymphs
Preferred to be out in nature, often participating in celebrations or watching play performances
Could be extremely temperamental to those who opposed or angered him
Description: Young and handsome, with long dark curly hair, and outfitted in cloaks of royal purple and white

[Evil Genie Jafar]

I LOVE Greek mythology; and everyone around me knows so.

I began sharing interest on it after reading several myths in school. I found it not just very fun but extremely clever as well how they explained everyhting.

After that I started reading as many Greek myths I could find.

To the point where I found a book that has just about everything; and extremely cheap too:

"Edith Hamilton MYTHOLOGY"

I've been wanting to read "The Oddisey" and "The Illiad"...; have the last one... but everytime I start it get bored; but I will read it eventually.


It's amazing how come I love so much Greek Mythology given the fact that they're "humans" ... when I've always loved animals/creatures/monsters. Ans as such, Egyptian mytholgy would be more suited to my tastes; but that's not the case.

That's one of the main reasons I love Xena. Havind all the gods and godesses in the flesh and seeing them interact. Precisely one of the reasons I love Season 4; and hated what Xena did.

My favorite God, and not so much mentioned is Hades; long before the Disney movie. Loved that he's one of the main ones. Loved his job. Even the name.

...reason why I do make the difference when talking that his domain is Tartarus (not Hades).

...besides, with all the gods doing as they please. Not knowing what what would happen next; it would have been MUCH better to have him at your side; after all... you're going to spend the eternity with him as in contrast to a lifetime.

I also love SO much more the orginal Greek names instead of the Roman ones.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Looks like we won't be the only ones talking in it

I've always been drawn to Greek Mythology and still can't figure out why, perhaps because it was always more interesting than learning about Canadian and American history I also have a love for Ancient Egypt but haven't fully explored that as much as the Greek.

I used to always think the Gods and Godesses just layed around Mt. Olympus scheming and living in luxury then I started reading the story of Troy and found out how active they were in the events leading up to the war and fighting in it themselves. The whole thing was a plan of Zeus he came up with the idea with either Momos or Themis.

Anyways I could go into full detail on some things about the war but it might be a tad long

* Edit to add things intead of Double Posting*

Here's a handy link to the Illiad in full I believe

http://www.theoi.com/Text/HomerIliad1.html

Some gods and goddesses helped the army fight against the Trojans such as. There's even on book in the Illiad called Battle of the Gods which is where these two lists are from

Hera
Poseidon
Pallas Athena
Hermes
Hephaestus

While others helped the Trojans such as

Ares
Phoebus Apollo
Artemis
Leto
Xanthus
Aphrodite
Enyalius

I also remember Iris, Strife and many others mentioned throughout some only mentioned, some meddled but the ones listed above were most active I believe.

[PrincePhillipFan]

Thank you so much for posting all of that, Chernabog! I've only read parts of the Illiad, and heard stories of the gods like Apollo, Artemis, Athena, and others taking part in the war, but never had a chance to read the entire thing. Another story that I found really interesting Thanks for posting that information!

I used to always think the Gods and Godesses just layed around Mt. Olympus scheming and living in luxury then I started reading the story of Troy and found out how active they were in the events leading up to the war and fighting in it themselves

I used to think the same thing as well before I started to read more into the stories behind them, and just how much interaction they had with mortals on earth. Another interesting story I remember reading took place on Olympus, in which Hera, Poseidon, Apollo, and Athena were all unsatisifed with how Zeus was ruling, so they planned to bind him in iron chains and hang him from the sky. Zeus however eventually found out about it and sent Poseidon and Apollo down to earth to work as mortals for Laomedon, the King of Troy, to work off their servitude. I would love to find more information about this story, but other than like a paragraph mentioning it in most of the mythology books I have, I haven't managed to find a whole detailed account of it.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

I used to think the same thing as well before I started to read more into the stories behind them, and just how much interaction they had with mortals on earth. Another interesting story I remember reading took place on Olympus, in which Hera, Poseidon, Apollo, and Athena were all unsatisifed with how Zeus was ruling, so they planned to bind him in iron chains and hang him from the sky. Zeus however eventually found out about it and sent Poseidon and Apollo down to earth to work as mortals for Laomedon, the King of Troy, to work off their servitude. I would love to find more information about this story, but other than like a paragraph mentioning it in most of the mythology books I have, I haven't managed to find a whole detailed account of it.

I find the bolded part interesting, perhaps that's why Poseidon fought against Troy in the war bit of a grudge perhaps? But then again Apollo fought for the Trojans unless he's more forgiving? Interesting story PPF If and when I find it I have a Mythology book full of Family Trees, I'll try to dig it up and share some of them.

[PrincePhillipFan]

I find the bolded part interesting, perhaps that's why Poseidon fought against Troy in the war bit of a grudge perhaps? But then again Apollo fought for the Trojans unless he's more forgiving? Interesting story PPF If and when I find it I have a Mythology book full of Family Trees, I'll try to dig it up and share some of them.

Thank you so much! I would love to read any information that you find.

About the Trojans with Apollo and Poseidon, I was flipping through my Dictionary of Classical Mythology book today and found a few more interesting points that could help explain it. The full story was that Poseidon and Apollo were forced by Zeus to work as mortals, helping to build the fortress walls of the city of Troy. Apollo also helped to look after the king's sheep flocks on Mount Ida. When their servitude was done, they asked Laomedon for payment of their work, however the king refused. When they protested, he only denied them again and threatened to cut off their ears and sell them as slaves to somebody else. When they returned to their divine state, Apollo still held his grudge against the king, and Poseidon sent a sea monster to terrorize the country.

However, during the time of the Trojan war, Paris was the king, grandson of Laomedon. So maybe perhaps during this time, Apollo had become more forgiving of Troy, while Poseidon still held his grudge. There were also a few other reasons which contributed to Apollo siding with the Trojans. Apollo became involved after he shot infected arrows into the Greek encampment after Agamemnon, husband of Helen, insulted and captured Chryses, who was a loyal priestess to Apollo, and to whom Apollo spoke most of his prophecies through. Apollo demanded the king to return her, which Agamemnon replied to, causing Achilles to be angered. He was also involved later with helping to save the wounded Aeneas from the battlefield by taking him to a sacred spot in Troy, and he later helped Paris to kill Achilles, his main motive being that Achilles had killed Apollo's son Troilus on the alter of his own temple. So it seems like Apollo had only become very active in the war mostly due to personal attacks to ones that had been close to him.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

You know I actually knew about that whole Priestess incident through watching the movie Troy but when I went to post that it never clued in to me Lots of great info PPF, still digging around for that book I seem to lose things when I need them.

From what I remember of the plan of Zeus is that he had become king of the gods by overthrowing his father Cronus; Cronus in turn had overthrown his father Ouranos. Zeus was not very faithful to his wife Hera and had many relationships from which of course a lot of children were born. From what I've heard since there were too many people populating the earth already he came up along with either Momos or Themis with the idea of the Trojan War in order to depopulate the Earth, especially of his demigod descendants. Which is somewhat understandable since he probably didn't want to meet the same fate as his father and grandfather.

[Disney's Divinity]

^

A similar idea happened with Athena's mother, I think. An oracle or the Fates (two different versions have said different things) warned Zeus that the second child of Metis would be a son that would overthrow him. So, he ate her.

Also, I thought the whole Trojan war was caused by Hera's vengeance for Paris choosing Aphrodite as the most beautiful over herself and Athena? I've also read that the whole question of beauty was caused by Hecate (I might be wrong here) or the goddess of discord throwing a golden apple into the three other goddesses' midst.

Actually, searching the internet, it was the goddess of discord (Eris). I don't know why I thought of Hecate.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

You are correct about the Golden Apple Divinity Here's a quote I've come across regarding the Apple. Zeus' plan came just before this incident I believe.

Zeus came to learn from either Themis or Prometheus, after Heracles had released him from Caucasus, that he himself would be overthrown by a son. Another prophecy said of the sea-nymph Thetis, with whom Zeus had an affair, that her son would be greater than his father. Possibly for one or both of these reasons, Thetis was betrothed to a now-elderly human king, Peleus son of Aiakos, either upon Zeus' orders, or because Thetis wished to please Hera since she had raised her. All of the gods were invited to Peleus and Thetis' wedding and brought gifts, except Eris ("Discord") who was stopped at the door by Hermes on Zeus' order. Insulted she threw from the door a gift of her own-Her gift was a golden apple (το μήλον της έριδος) on which were inscribed the words Tēi Kallistēi , ("To the fairest"). The apple was claimed by Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite. They quarreled bitterly over it, and none of the other gods would venture an opinion favoring one, for fear of earning the enmity of the other two. Eventually, Zeus ordered Hermes to lead the three goddesses to Paris, a prince of Troy,who,unaware of his ancestry,was being raised as a shepherd in Mount Ida, because of a prophecy that he would be the downfall of Troy. The goddesses tried to bribe the shepherd. Athena offered Paris wisdom, skill in battle, and the abilities of the greatest warriors; Hera offered him political power and control of all of Asia, and Aphrodite offered him the love of the most beautiful woman in the world, Helen of Sparta. Paris awarded the apple to Aphrodite, and, after several adventures, returned to Troy and was recognized by his family.

[PrincePhillipFan]

Thanks for the info you two! I remember reading the story of Metis, but I've heard many varying tales of the beginning of the Trojan War. Perhaps it was then just a mixture of the two.

I also picked up an interesting book I found today called 100 Characters from Classical Mythology. It lists all the gods as well as famous Greek heroes, especially from the Trojan War. If I find out any new or interesting information from it, I'll be sure to post it.

[PrincePhillipFan]

Thought I would bring back up this topic recently since it's been a long long time. I completely forgot I never got around to posting these pictures, but decided to right now. Here's one of my pride and joys, the necklace of my favorite god and my patron Apollo. It's real silver and is based off a real Greek coin design. I wear it pretty much every day.

The front


The back

[PeterPanfan]

That's really, really cool! Where, exactly, did you find it?

[Margos]

Wow! I can't get over the cool-factor of that necklace, Tim!

[PrincePhillipFan]

Thank you, you two! I got it from a Greek jewelry shop in Athens called Boxing Pandora. I think their website is still up, but they might have changed the name now to just "Greek Jewelry."

I take great pride in it wearing it on me every day. His teachings and philosophy I always keep close to me, and I share a lot in common with him: poet, musician, writer, bisexual. I know some might find it very silly, but I often see Apollo as like my guardian deity and spirit wtih me every day.