I found this really great article over at TheDigitalBits regarding DNR...
Click Here
Thought it was interesting in that it focuses on how Blu-Ray is supposed to make films look like films again, and yet some releases are treated to a digital restoration/transfer/whathaveyou that's more akin to a modern video game than a vintage film...
Albert
DNR... and Other Things That Go Bump in the Night
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Escapay
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DNR... and Other Things That Go Bump in the Night
WIST #60:
AwallaceUNC: Would you prefer Substi-Blu-tiary Locomotion?
WIST #61:
TheSequelOfDisney: Damn, did Lin-Manuel Miranda go and murder all your families?
AwallaceUNC: Would you prefer Substi-Blu-tiary Locomotion?
WIST #61:
TheSequelOfDisney: Damn, did Lin-Manuel Miranda go and murder all your families?
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KubrickFan
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Yes, Robert Harris is great, and it's a good article. I've always wondered why grain would be a bad thing. The Little Mermaid got several negative reviews because of that.
It's perhaps too bad Disney doesn't restore their films, but wants to give them a new look. It's a good thing that they get Lowry Digital involved (or DTS Images, was it?) they can handle grain reduction well, as is apparent in most, if not all, restorations they have done.
It's perhaps too bad Disney doesn't restore their films, but wants to give them a new look. It's a good thing that they get Lowry Digital involved (or DTS Images, was it?) they can handle grain reduction well, as is apparent in most, if not all, restorations they have done.
Harris is a hack, and an obvious Microsoft/Toshiba shill. Anyone who writes something like this -
After the liberties he took with his restoration of Vertigo, he can't even be regarded as a trusted source in his own field, for pete's sake.
- a mere two weeks ago has absolutely zero credibility, in my book. He is making a ludicrous attempt at assigning DNR to be an inherent problem of a specific format. That's one of the highest and most irrational levels of FUD that could only come from a red ant on the payroll of certain companies.Robert Harris wrote:If Blu-ray is the format that appeals to those who want no grain in their high definition, then the move is obvious.
Allow the linoleum lovers to have Blu-ray and enjoy it.
If Toshiba will consider going back into production with updated and upgraded HD players, then those who appreciate film, and don't mind or actually like grain, full resolution and detail, can take the HD route.
Studios can carry a dual inventory of HD and BD, and everyone is happy.
That is the obvious answer.
After the liberties he took with his restoration of Vertigo, he can't even be regarded as a trusted source in his own field, for pete's sake.
Life often leaves us standing bare, naked and dejected with a lost opportunity. Over the bleached bones and jumbled residues of numerous civilizations are written the pathetic words: "Too late."
~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
I actually think the "obvious" answer is to put no DNR on the transfer (unless absolutely required due to absolutely substandard originals - let's not forget DNR can be useful, if in practicality these instances are rare) and let people use their TV and/or player to set the DNR if they prefer it. You can remove grain/detail, but you can't get it back, so it should be inherent in the transfer.
Perhaps all BD players should have DNR built in (with a on/off/level control). Just like discs come with papers reminding us to update our firmware if we encounter any problems, perhaps they can include a "adjust your DNR" spiel too. (A more friendly name like "grain removal" rather than DNR would help too - then people could just perhaps select on or off, or something like off, low, high)
Interestingly, the PS3 does have some controls, but I think that they only work on DVD playback and are specifically twined with the upscaling process. I don't really know as I've not played with them. But if they are DVD only, why not extend them to BD playback too?
Of course that requires people to actually DO something apart from complain. I'm always a little disappointed some of the promises of DVD were never really taken up properly (seamless branching, multi-angles, parental controls, pan-and-scan on the fly - especially the latter) so I don't have much hope for something like the above ever becoming standard.
I know people will say this is kowtowing to the ignorant, but DVD survived more or less with its integrity intact despire the twin widescreen/P&S releases for most big movies. Having a on/off filter without changing the information encoded on the disc seems like next to nothing in comparison.
Perhaps all BD players should have DNR built in (with a on/off/level control). Just like discs come with papers reminding us to update our firmware if we encounter any problems, perhaps they can include a "adjust your DNR" spiel too. (A more friendly name like "grain removal" rather than DNR would help too - then people could just perhaps select on or off, or something like off, low, high)
Interestingly, the PS3 does have some controls, but I think that they only work on DVD playback and are specifically twined with the upscaling process. I don't really know as I've not played with them. But if they are DVD only, why not extend them to BD playback too?
Of course that requires people to actually DO something apart from complain. I'm always a little disappointed some of the promises of DVD were never really taken up properly (seamless branching, multi-angles, parental controls, pan-and-scan on the fly - especially the latter) so I don't have much hope for something like the above ever becoming standard.
I know people will say this is kowtowing to the ignorant, but DVD survived more or less with its integrity intact despire the twin widescreen/P&S releases for most big movies. Having a on/off filter without changing the information encoded on the disc seems like next to nothing in comparison.
Most of my Blu-ray collection some of my UK discs aren't on their database
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KubrickFan
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I don't think it's the problem of just one format (I'm sure there were some HD-DVDs full of DNR). He suggests two different formats for two different purposes. The first one for the cinephiles, to have the image as intended, grain and all. The other for the people who want their images to look as clean as possible.Paka wrote:Harris is a hack, and an obvious Microsoft/Toshiba shill. Anyone who writes something like this -
- a mere two weeks ago has absolutely zero credibility, in my book. He is making a ludicrous attempt at assigning DNR to be an inherent problem of a specific format. That's one of the highest and most irrational levels of FUD that could only come from a red ant on the payroll of certain companies.
After the liberties he took with his restoration of Vertigo, he can't even be regarded as a trusted source in his own field, for pete's sake.
It wouldn't be a good solution, I agree with that. Blu-Ray doesn't do great yet, and to throw another format in the mix (again) just for a small percentage of the movie-buying public wouldn't help. But to write Mr. Harris off as an HD fan boy is a bit too much.
And what liberties did he take with Vertigo? Just curious.