Frog Princess found & renamed!

[yukitora]

Being asian myself, only Shang comes across as "westernized" to me. No straight asian is that buff

I thought they translated Asian values in Mulan very well... Aladdin, not so much though, you could've moved the whole setting to France and it'd still work. But I'm not Arabian so I'm not qualified to comment

[BelleGirl]

Being asian myself, only Shang comes across as "westernized" to me. No straight asian is that buff

Maybe that's because he's voiced by an 'Asian-American'?
I just don't think that Disney has time enough to study all the typical attitudes of people from other cultures, hence they fill it in their own way and so a figure like Shang is 'westernised'. People should be able to understand this I think.
I would not be offended if an Asian film company made an animated movie about an European hero and 'asianised' him/her. I would be curious to see it.

In fact, haven't the Japanes been reworking famous European (children's) books into animated TV-series for years? I'm sure they also must have a little asian feel in them.

[2099net]

Well, I think its a bit rich of Blue Sky Disney to claim Angelina isn't living in the real world. Angelina knows more about the "real world" (as in, you know, the whole world) than most people (including myself) ever will.

Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelina_J ... arian_work

Snide comments about Angelina and her humanitarian work (as I've seen here or on other internet places which allow comments) sadden me. Really they do. And Angelina (unlike certain celebrities) adopted her childen after lots of exposure to their cultures and before it was "trendy" to do so.

As for "living in the real world" - she is in other ways too. You see, WE are the ones not living in the real world. We are the ones who obess about Disney. We're the ones who get upset when people think Shrek is a Disney film. We're the ones who devour every single source of news for information on upcoming Disney films. She, and about 98% of the population does not.

She is reflecting on what the "perception" of Disney princess films are. And you can't fault that. It's not good enough to point out Mulan and Pocahontas, as they are rarely marketed as "Disney Princesses" - the only accurate counter anyone can throw back is "Jasmine" in Aladdin.

If Angelina gets a Disney Princess book and its overwhelmingly "white" (and let's face it, its mostly Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Belle and Arial) her complaint is justified. She never used the words "racist" - racist isn't really the issue. She said that they weren't diverse, and it's true.

Saying that they all come from Europe or different countries in Europe doesn't really matter either, because they may as well have come from Mars - in that they are all "generic Western" as far as ethnicity goes. As some one pointed out, Arial isn't even human. Yet, she's not out of place among the other princesses is she? She still just "generic". Does Snow White or the Dwarfs do anything particularly German? Does Belle or the Beast to anything typically French? Do we even know where any of these stories are set with 100% accuracy?

Even Jasmine is "generic Western" – go to Iran or any other Middle East country in the time Aladdin was set, and see how many young girls would dress like she does! Jasmine is non-Western, but doesn't have any non-Western traits, traditions or customs. She don't even sing Eastern songs, but Western style songs!

For the record I think Angelina is wrong, but again there are people here with such a love of Disney, I think it blinds them any criticism, however valid it may be. I do mostly agree with Angelina over the Princess franchise issue (Disney really in this day and age to more to make people more aware of its multi-cultural nature, and realise some of its multi-cultural potential too), but not over the Disney Animated Classics issue.

Hunchback of Notre Dame did have a lot of French culture and history shown, Pocahontas had a lot of Native American culture and beliefs, Mulan showed some of the Chinese culture, beliefs and history.

Is Mulan Westernised? No doubt, but it’s a film made by Westerners for a primarily Western audience. But it still showed viewers a snapshot of Chinese culture of the time – how they worshiped their ancestors, how girls were viewed by it's citizens, and it also shows a little history too. I don't see how people could ask for more really – it's more than the Princess films show us about Europe.

I also think it's fair to criticise her over her choice of animated films. Shark's Tale did have some form of racial and social diversity from what I recall, but I doubt Kung Fu Panda is going to have much respect for Chinese customs and traditions. We shall have to see.

[UmbrellaFish]

We may be blinded because we're Disney fans. And we're probably the only people to even care about Angelina's comment. I think that anyone, especially a celebrity who knows every word they say will be recorded by TV shows and websites, should do a little research before saying anything because obviously the Disney Princess line is diversed. Simply do what ariels'prince suggested and type in disneyprincess.com to discover that there's more than Cinderella to buy for your little girl.

You are right about the merchandise, and I agree. Pocahontas and Mulan should be used more often. But how do we know it's not the general public's opinion that's shunned Poca and Mulan in the first place? Their movies were not as popular as the other Princesses in the brand, and my guess Disney carefully selects who goes into the line and gets used most often. We know how careful Disney is about things.

Is Mulan Westernised? No doubt, but it’s a film made by Westerners for a primarily Western audience. But it still showed viewers a snapshot of Chinese culture of the time – how they worshiped their ancestors, how girls were viewed by it's citizens, and it also shows a little history too. I don't see how people could ask for more really – it's more than the Princess films show us about Europe.

And I wholeheartedly agree with that statement.

[yukitora]

^"You'll bring honor to us all" pretty much sums up Asian values as well. Interesting (and great) points though, it's certainly a refreshing way to look at it, although I doubt she gave it that much thought. (ps. it's spelt Ariel )

Being asian myself, only Shang comes across as "westernized" to me. No straight asian is that buff

Maybe that's because he's voiced by an 'Asian-American'?
I just don't think that Disney has time enough to study all the typical attitudes of people from other cultures, hence they fill it in their own way and so a figure like Shang is 'westernised'. People should be able to understand this I think.
I would not be offended if an Asian film company made an animated movie about an European hero and 'asianised' him/her. I would be curious to see it.

In fact, haven't the Japanes been reworking famous European (children's) books into animated TV-series for years? I'm sure they also must have a little asian feel in them.

Not his necessarily his voice, rather his physique, his characteristics, his song and his general presentation.

Howl's Moving Castle is a great example of "asianising" western characters. Sophie is much more insecure than her strong willed-book counterpart (when she's still young), and Howl is just plain feminine, aka normal (or should I say common) in Japan. Go watch it! (if you haven't already), it's amazing!

[Ariel'sprince]

We may be blinded because we're Disney fans. And we're probably the only people to even care about Angelina's comment. I think that anyone, especially a celebrity who knows every word they say will be recorded by TV shows and websites, should do a little research before saying anything because obviously the Disney Princess line is diversed. Simply do what ariels'prince suggested and type in disneyprincess.com to discover that there's more than Cinderella to buy for your little girl.

You are right about the merchandise, and I agree. Pocahontas and Mulan should be used more often. But how do we know it's not the general public's opinion that's shunned Poca and Mulan in the first place? Their movies were not as popular as the other Princesses in the brand, and my guess Disney carefully selects who goes into the line and gets used most often. We know how careful Disney is about things.

I agree.
You know,since Disney baiscally cares who makes the most money then that means that Pocahontas and Mulan aren't popular (Also little girls only cares about the Princesses's dresses and they haven't even saw the Princesses's films so they don't like them) and also their films aren't sucessful as Sleeping Beauty or The Little Mermaid.
I wonder why Jasmine is getting less attention,I thought Aladdin is popular.

[yukitora]

Maybe because they don't want young girls wearing rather revealing two-pieces. Or rather would get complaints for selling such costumes.

I don't it's got much to do with the films success, how well Sleeping Beauty did decades ago is almost irrelevant to 12 y.o. girls. and I though Mulan was received massively well by children. I even have friends in year 12 at an all-guy school who break out in song(s from mulan). They even showed Mulan II in English...

I think it's all to do with the dresses like you said. Neither of them have proper dresses, making them less markable.

[Mooky]

This situation is exactly what this film didn't need. I don't think it's a bad publicity, but I have a feeling marketing for the film is going to focus much more on the fact that Tiana is Disney's first black princess than on the story itself and the fact that it's Disney's return to hand-drawn films.

[UmbrellaFish]

I don't it's got much to do with the films success, how well Sleeping Beauty did decades ago is almost irrelevant to 12 y.o. girls. and I though Mulan was received massively well by children. I even have friends in year 12 at an all-guy school who break out in song(s from mulan). They even showed Mulan II in English...

Well, a rebuttal to that would be Eliowny. And Aurora's been a Princess far longer than her. Her movie is a 50s CLASSIC.

I think you've mentioned before that you're not from America, yukitora, but I'm not sure. Still, at least where I come from, Mulan is pretty forgotten. I brought a Mulan tape to class once (to watch) and everyone was whining about it.

(Also little girls only cares about the Princesses's dresses and they haven't even saw the Princesses's films so they don't like them)

I think it's all to do with the dresses like you said. Neither of them have proper dresses, making them less markable.

I did, however, forget about the ever popular princess dresses. The new jewels line is centered entirely around the clothing. That, I think, may be the answer.

[Ariel'sprince]

Well,I think Jasmine and Snow White are the most popular Princesses by small children and they"re they only Princesses they really know,for example cousin (She's 5 years old) only really knows Snow White and Jasmine,she gets Ariel stuff but she never seen The Little Mermaid and she only knows that Ariel is The Little Mermaid,she always get confused between Cinderella and Aurora and she only knows that Aurora is Sleeping Beauty,she just knows that Belle is Beauty and I don't think she even knows that Pocahontas,Giselle and Mulan are Disney Princesses,too (Okay,I don't blame her about Giselle but Pocahontas and Mulan) thought now she seems more interested in Kim Possible and TinkerBell but I"m not sure,my parents's friends's daughter (She's the same age) is also the same (Thought she might know Cinderella,I"m not sure).
Yeah,Mulan is also forgotten,some of my cousin said they don't remember they seen Pocahontas (They didn't even knew that she's a Disney Princess).

I did, however, forget about the ever popular princess dresses. The new jewels line is centered entirely around the clothing. That, I think, may be the answer.

.
You have a point,also the gold dresses they made for Enchanted Tales,it's just their colthing,they don't make Flat Princesses or other version of the Princesses.
So that's explain why it's only Aurora,Cinderella,Snow White,Ariel and Belle who gets all the attention and not Jasmine,Pocahontas,Mulan and Giselle (Thought Jasmine gets more attention then Snow White and Belle when they"re together).

[yukitora]

I don't it's got much to do with the films success, how well Sleeping Beauty did decades ago is almost irrelevant to 12 y.o. girls. and I though Mulan was received massively well by children. I even have friends in year 12 at an all-guy school who break out in song(s from mulan). They even showed Mulan II in English...

Well, a rebuttal to that would be Eliowny. And Aurora's been a Princess far longer than her. Her movie is a 50s CLASSIC.

I think you've mentioned before that you're not from America, yukitora, but I'm not sure. Still, at least where I come from, Mulan is pretty forgotten. I brought a Mulan tape to class once (to watch) and everyone was whining about it.

(Also little girls only cares about the Princesses's dresses and they haven't even saw the Princesses's films so they don't like them)

I think it's all to do with the dresses like you said. Neither of them have proper dresses, making them less markable.

I did, however, forget about the ever popular princess dresses. The new jewels line is centered entirely around the clothing. That, I think, may be the answer.

Well the Black Cauldron deserves to be ignored but anyhow, there wasn't anything distinctly "princess" about her. No background, no country, to family, no dress, (did she have a crown?). Disney wouldn't have much to work with regarding Eliowny.

Yeah, I'm from Australia. I guess old news dies slower in holes like here!

[Ariel'sprince]

Well Eliowny doesn't seems like a real princess,the only thing that proves that she's a princess is that she introduce herself as Princess Eliowny.

[BelleGirl]

Howl's Moving Castle is a great example of "asianising" western characters. Sophie is much more insecure than her strong willed-book counterpart (when she's still young), and Howl is just plain feminine, aka normal (or should I say common) in Japan. Go watch it! (if you haven't already), it's amazing!

Not only have I watched 'Howl's Moving Castle', I own it! But since I haven't read the original book I cannot compare...

[PatrickvD]

I'm sorry but as a high profile actress working actively in the movie industry, she should think twice about making such a comment. Of all upcoming animated films, Princess has been in the news quite a bit.

That being said, the only reason this comment from her was picked up by the media is because of the irony of it. The thing Angelina is missing in Disney films and therefore finds offensive is right around the corner.

As for her humanitarian work, sure it's good. But I question her motives and have and always will be disturbed by her as a person.

A few months ago I was in Istanbul and we had to pass through a slum, we weren't supposed to go there but we took a wrong direction. It truly is a terrifying sight and it does make you reflect on your own life. I do respect her for going out and seeing different cultures, raising awareness etc. I applaud her as far too many individuals with the power to make a change just sit on their asses.

But the fact still is that this woman lives in a bubble and, though I'm no psychologist, I always feel everything she's done the past few years is based on how she wants to be portrayed. I always feel like to her it's just about acting the opposite way as in her Billy Bob Thornton days. Maybe she did have some sort of revelation I don't know, but she did kinda go from acting like a total borderline freak to being friggin' mother Theresa. note, this is my opinion on her bipolar behavior. I may well be wrong.

and if she cares so much about the portrayal of diversity in Disney animated films, why doesn't she just start her own animation studio? I hear the bidding for her twinbaby's candids is up to like $ 15 million. Hell she can hire a nice crew with that kind of money.

In the meantime, the kids enjoy mommy's masterpiece "Shark Tale". That'll educate her little baby geniuses.

[PatrickvD]

2099net, I agree with most of what you have to say. In a way Agelina does represent the average person, not the Disney fan.

The main problem here is the Disney Princess brand. The merchandise for that brand has placed the actual movies (wich by the way aren't even appropriate for most little girls) in its shadow and gives the wrong message about the actual content of these Disney movies to wich these characters belong.

these white girls do not represent the average female in Disney films as they are quite diverse. The fact that they're excluding characters like Pocahontas and Mulan doesn't help.

[akhenaten]

maybe westerns can start by learning about other cultures by first ANNOUNCING THEIR NAMES RIGHT.

iran/iraq is not AI-RAN/AI-RAQ

myanmar is not MY-END-MAR


if they wont ...i will from now on call america UHM-EH-RY-CAR

to compare aladdin and mulan's interpretation of foreign culture.
both have their flaws..no..arab girls dont weir belly dancers attire all the time..especially if they are muslims.
and asians aren't all about honor and being obedient wives. however, the kind of rebellious trait mulan posses is very western. an asian daughter would have rebelled in a different approach. they wouldnt raise their voice to the elders.

[BelleGirl]

2099net, I agree with most of what you have to say. In a way Agelina does represent the average person, not the Disney fan.

The main problem here is the Disney Princess brand. The merchandise for that brand has placed the actual movies (wich by the way aren't even appropriate for most little girls) in its shadow and gives the wrong message about the actual content of these Disney movies to wich these characters belong.

So true.

these white girls do not represent the average female in Disney films as they are quite diverse. The fact that they're excluding characters like Pocahontas and Mulan doesn't help.

Well, why are they excluded? Mulan is not realy a princess and though Pocahontas is, she is quite unique as she is not based on a fairy tale figure but on an actual historical person. Somehow I feel it's not really appropriate to commercialize her to much.
By they way, did Mulan really exist, or is she a legend, like king Arthur?

[Princess Forever]

I think Mulan did exist, but then again it might be folklore ><; (not much help there, sorry)
I also thought Mulan was quite popular here in the US? I know she doesn't get put much into the 'Princesses' line, but then again she is more an honorary Princess. Maybe they should design a dress/crown for her? The last Princess magazine had Mulan in a lavendar Chinese gown with a crown, very beautiful.
Jasmine always seems to get included, even though she doesn't have a "traditional" (Western) gown, for the gold Enchanted Tales outfit it is still the pants and top, just gold and decorated.
It would be nice to see Eilowny included, maybe if they ever rerelease the movie in theaters. She is a 'real' princess, if you know the books youknow her circumstances.
Also, do any of the girls ever become queens? *lol* I mean, Eric doesn't seem to have parents around, nor did Beast, but they are always just princes and not kings.

[2099net]

Patrick, I used to be cynical about Angelina, until I saw a special extended "Hardtalk" interview with her on the BBC News channel a year or two back, and she totally convinced me she was 100% comitted to everything she says. True, she is an actress (an Oscar® winning one at that) so she knows how to manipulate her emotions for the camera, but I'm still convinced.

And as for the money for pictures of her children... last time she gave all the money away to charity supporting her favourite worldwide causes (again, unlike certain "stars" to arrange exclusive pictures and pocket all the money for themselves).

2099net, I agree with most of what you have to say. In a way Agelina does represent the average person, not the Disney fan.

The main problem here is the Disney Princess brand. The merchandise for that brand has placed the actual movies (wich by the way aren't even appropriate for most little girls) in its shadow and gives the wrong message about the actual content of these Disney movies to wich these characters belong.

these white girls do not represent the average female in Disney films as they are quite diverse. The fact that they're excluding characters like Pocahontas and Mulan doesn't help.

But isn't that what she was specifically referring to? The "Princess" brand, more than Disney films? After all, as we've pointed out there's Mulan, Pocahontas, Hunchback, Lilo... loads of Disney films which are "diverse".

I think, like some of us here, she's more than a little exaperated and fed-up with Disney's constant dumbed-down promotion of (on the face of it) the blandest and most vapid of all it's creations. (That will get a response, I'm sure! But I 100% believe what I just typed.)

Reading between the lines ,I think what she's saying is "Look, there's a whole world out there. Full of terrible things, wonderful things and different traditions, viewpoints and values. And I won't let my children be brainwashed by the overtly marketed Disney Princesses, as they do nothing to show how wonderful the world actually is, but instead concentrate on dresses, jewelry and other superficial stuff, which I consider unimportant."

Say what you want about Angelina, but she's not really one for designer clothes, wearing diamonds or gushing over famous names or shops.

I agree though, this doesn't tie in 100% with some of films she makes (or Brad - his Sinbad for Dreamworks was one of the most Western-centric versions ever released). But that's another issue really. People have to understand people can have more than one idea in their head, or even conflicting ideas, at the same time. It's what makes us human and not perfect.

[Ariel'sprince]

I think I said that in the Enchanted Tales thread but again,I think that if they"ll show Mulan in her pink dress (The one she was wearing when she went to the Matchmaker) insted of her work outift then little girls will love Mulan more.