The OTVs - A few questions

[drfsupercenter]

OK, I'm looking for original theatrical versions of a few films, and had questions as to if they were ever released.

1. The Great Mouse Detective - The DVD and both VHSes have the newer "The Adventures of the Great Mouse Detective" title card. Does the laserdisc, by chance, have the original? Or does anyone know where I can find one?

I grabbed this off a preview, but I'm not sure if that's even close to the original...


2. Lady and the Tramp - I know the 1998 laserdisc had the original Academy ratio; but I can't find that anywhere! I can, however, find the early 90s "STEREO LASERDISC" version, that is 4:3. However, The LaserDisc Database doesn't have any aspect info about this version, does anyone know if it's Academy or Pan-And-Scan?
Anyone willing to let me borrow their Academy disc to record? I promise I'd give it back... I just have yet to find someone with one

Also, I know a great deal of films had bumper plastering on their DVD releases. I got Cinderella's RKO off the Masterpiece laserdisc, but just how many others am I missing? (I have pretty much every Disney DVD release)

And does anyone here happen to have the über-rare unedited VHS of Aladdin? I found a few people on YouTube who claim to have one, but yet everybody I ask mysteriously can't provide me with proof.
If you see my signature, I have a "reverse edited" version, but you can still hear a slight pitch change when it goes back to the video version. I'd really love a recording of Arabian Nights at 48kHz off a pre-edit VHS, if anyone has one.

Let me know if you have any of these "rare" OTVs, or could help somehow (like if you have the Bambi laserdisc with the RKO bumper, and a DVD recorder)

[Mollyzkoubou]

I still am under the impression that this "cut off your ear VHS" doesn't exist, as no one can prove otherwise.

[Escapay]

2. Lady and the Tramp - I know the 1998 laserdisc had the original Academy ratio; but I can't find that anywhere! I can, however, find the early 90s "STEREO LASERDISC" version, that is 4:3. However, The LaserDisc Database doesn't have any aspect info about this version, does anyone know if it's Academy or Pan-And-Scan?

It's Pan&Scan. The 1998 laserdisc was the first time the Academy version was released. Try contacting mvealf. He's a UD member who knows a lot about Disney laserdiscs, he could possibly acquire a DVD-rip of the Academy version.

I got Cinderella's RKO off the Masterpiece laserdisc, but just how many others am I missing? (I have pretty much every Disney DVD release)

Disney DVDs with the RKO card: (this is from memory so it may only be about 63% accurate)
Pinocchio: Limited Issue/Gold Classic Collection
Fantasia: 60th Anniversary Edition/Fantasia Anthology (the title card appears at the intermission, and it may or may not be the RKO one)
Dumbo: 60th Anniversary Edition
All the Package Features (Saludos, Amigos, The Three Caballeros, Make Mine Music, Fun and Fancy Free, Melody Time, The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad) - I don't have the new Classic Caballeros Collection for SA/TTC, so I don't know if the RKO card is still there or removed.
Peter Pan: Special Edition (2002)

I'll have to check my DVDs later this week to confirm that, but I think those are the ones that still feature the RKO card.

I still am under the impression that this "cut off your ear VHS" doesn't exist, as no one can prove otherwise.

It likely doesn't, since the line was changed while the film was in theatres.

Albert

[drfsupercenter]

It's Pan&Scan. The 1998 laserdisc was the first time the Academy version was released. Try contacting mvealf. He's a UD member who knows a lot about Disney laserdiscs, he could possibly acquire a DVD-rip of the Academy version.

Thanks... I did PM mvealf, but never got a reply. I guess I'll keep looking then - I've never actually seen one for sale...

Disney DVDs with the RKO card: (this is from memory so it may only be about 63% accurate)
Pinocchio: Limited Issue/Gold Classic Collection
Fantasia: 60th Anniversary Edition/Fantasia Anthology (the title card appears at the intermission, and it may or may not be the RKO one)
Dumbo: 60th Anniversary Edition
All the Package Features (Saludos, Amigos, The Three Caballeros, Make Mine Music, Fun and Fancy Free, Melody Time, The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad) - I don't have the new Classic Caballeros Collection for SA/TTC, so I don't know if the RKO card is still there or removed.
Peter Pan: Special Edition (2002)

Pinocchio's LI/GCC doesn't, only the Lowry one overseas. But the films listed there don't have one? I know stuff like Bambi was plastered on the DVD...

It likely doesn't, since the line was changed while the film was in theatres.

That's interesting, I read that it got changed a month before the VHS's release. And if that's true it would make sense that some tapes were produced before the change and Disney might have been too lazy to destroy them... but I never heard that it was changed that early before.

[Escapay]

Disney DVDs with the RKO card: (this is from memory so it may only be about 63% accurate)
Pinocchio: Limited Issue/Gold Classic Collection
Fantasia: 60th Anniversary Edition/Fantasia Anthology (the title card appears at the intermission, and it may or may not be the RKO one)
Dumbo: 60th Anniversary Edition
All the Package Features (Saludos, Amigos, The Three Caballeros, Make Mine Music, Fun and Fancy Free, Melody Time, The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad) - I don't have the new Classic Caballeros Collection for SA/TTC, so I don't know if the RKO card is still there or removed.
Peter Pan: Special Edition (2002)

Pinocchio's LI/GCC doesn't, only the Lowry one overseas. But the films listed there don't have one? I know stuff like Bambi was plastered on the DVD...

Ah, cool, I only had one wrong entry. All the rest *should* have the RKO card.

I don't have Classic Caballeros Collection (just have the GC originals) so I don't know if the RKO card was dropped or not.

It likely doesn't, since the line was changed while the film was in theatres.

That's interesting, I read that it got changed a month before the VHS's release. And if that's true it would make sense that some tapes were produced before the change and Disney might have been too lazy to destroy them... but I never heard that it was changed that early before.

I guess it's just one of those Disney mysteries that won't get solved until there is solid proof via a VHS (perhaps a promotional one, since stores would get a few copies months ahead of time in order to play it on their TV screens - at least in stores in my area)

Albert

[nachonaco]

I'm convinced that there was more than one instance of Simba running in TLK. I thought there was a little bit before and after the bit of him running slow motion through the sand.

Am I wrong?

[drfsupercenter]

I don't have Classic Caballeros Collection (just have the GC originals) so I don't know if the RKO card was dropped or not.

Nor do I, they both had a higher bitrate on the GCC discs (according to the UD review), and since Saludos Amigos is still edited, I couldn't care less.
I do have a European PAL disc that isn't edited, that was since slown down to make the OTV of Saludos. The R2, apparently, is plastered with a Buena Vista bumper, but I can hybrid-source it...

I guess it's just one of those Disney mysteries that won't get solved until there is solid proof via a VHS (perhaps a promotional one, since stores would get a few copies months ahead of time in order to play it on their TV screens - at least in stores in my area)

That's what I'm after. All the people on YouTube who claim to have an unedited one mysteriously have reasons for not being able to prove it... I was hoping someone on the forum would have one who could record it for me.

I know mvealf has a workprint of Aladdin, I've been trying to get my hands on that but so far no luck
(Of course, the workprint of Aladdin is black and white (at least in the clip he showed me) and the audio is really washed out and not usable for restoring OTVs with).

I'm convinced that there was more than one instance of Simba running in TLK. I thought there was a little bit before and after the bit of him running slow motion through the sand.

Am I wrong?

I'll have to check... I do have a rip of the CLV laserdisc of The Lion King, since the DVD absolutely fails at providing an OTV. That's one of those instances where Disney lies through their teeth, they said they'd give us OTV and it was just "IMAX version without Morning Report"

That laserdisc is not very good quality-wise, and I've been trying to get my hands on the CAV box set. It's just selling for ridiculously high prices that I can't afford.


Does anyone know about the title card of The Great Mouse Detective? I'd like to believe that the original was released SOMEWHERE, I checked both VHS releases (I don't count the 2002 VHS as a valid release, as it's just a pan-and-scan version of the DVD...). I know the European versions have "Basil, the Great Mouse Detective" in a "similar-but-yet-different" font, but that's not the original either. I'm not even sure what the original looks like... that screenshot I posted originally came from the 1999 VHS (it had a preview for the greatmouse.com site which is now down, that had that fly in for less than a second)

It's not that I don't like "The Adventures of the Great Mouse Detective", it's just not actually the original since it's been changed... and the European one had a different font for the credits, which leads me to believe that it might possibly be different yet again in the original.

[Mollyzkoubou]

Yeah, the Saludos R2 says Buena Vista where the RKO logo would be.

I *hate* how Disney is censoring their older movies to make them palatable to 21st century soccer moms. And I *hate* how they advertise movies as OTV that are just SEs with some of the SE elements plucked out. (e.g., the BatB "OTV" still lacks the Silver Screen Partners IV credit and the stuttering Beast and has the wrong title card).

I want my, I want my, I want my OTV! (sung to the tune of "Money for Nothing")

[drfsupercenter]

Yeah, and for the love of God, why can't they release Song of the South? I realize people may find it racist, but it's historical! For the time it actually treated blacks BETTER than normal!

And if you ask me, censoring a centaur from Fantasia because it's black is exactly the kind of racism BS they're trying to "avoid"... isn't that the same as what people used to do in the 60s?

If you list all the Classics that have been screwed up in recent releases, it's overwhelming... There are only like 4 Platinum Editions that don't have something or other wrong with them... out of 11... that's definately a failing grade.

Now I'm not saying I don't like Beauty and the Beast: Special Edition. It's notable in and of itself, unlike The Lion King's (Why on Earth did they record Morning Report? Everyone I know over the age of 3 can't stand that stupid annoying kiddie song)
I just wish they'd made a REAL OTV and a REAL work-in-progress instead of trying to cram angles and seamless branching on an already edited and cropped DVD release.

I mean, go ahead and make high-tech movies (Tron was possibly the most amazing live-action Disney movie ever, and it was made in the early 80s!), but if it was made by hand, leave it that way please! Apparently Disney has a very, very thin line between "remastered" and REMADE, and they cross it oh too frequently. I don't mind the films looking new, but when you start cutting out clips that didn't go over well in theaters, making it look modern-day, and making it appeal to soccer moms, it's not "classic" anymore, it's just a new film that originated from an old film.

Now if only we could make laserdisc rips look like studio DVDs... (Though MK's Cinderella comes close... if someone failed to tell me it was a laserdisc, I'd seriously think it was a legit DVD)

[Mollyzkoubou]

Wasn't the centaur edit actually *made* in the 60s?

[Mollyzkoubou]

The 1998 laserdisc was the first time the Academy version was released. Try contacting mvealf. He's a UD member who knows a lot about Disney laserdiscs, he could possibly acquire a DVD-rip of the Academy version.

So long as we could find the laserdisc I could make a DVD of it myself.

[Escapay]

It's not that I don't like "The Adventures of the Great Mouse Detective", it's just not actually the original since it's been changed...

Just a bit of useless Disney trivia, but if we really wanna get technical, the true title should be Basil of Baker Street. The box-office failure of Young Sherlock Holmes gave Disney bigwigs cold feet about releasing a movie with a "British sounding" title, so they gave it the less imaginative The Great Mouse Detective. The filmmakers, understandably, were rather upset and pissed that their film was going out with such a stupid title that someone jokingly posted a memo that said Disney was re-titling all their films. I don't remember them all offhand, but I know that Peter Pan was re-christened The Amazing Flying Children or something to that effect, and Lady and the Tramp was...Two Dogs Fall in Love?

(I'll have to check my Mouse Under Glass book).

Wasn't the centaur edit actually *made* in the 60s?

Nobody can ever really agree when it was made. 1969 used to be the general consensus, though then there were the arguments that it was done while Walt was alive.

It's notable in and of itself, unlike The Lion King's (Why on Earth did they record Morning Report? Everyone I know over the age of 3 can't stand that stupid annoying kiddie song)

IIRC, the apparent "success" of the re-instatement of "Human Again" prompted Disney to ask the filmmakers to add a new number to The Lion king for its IMAX and Platinum release.

However, they wanted it done on a smaller budget, and without having to change *too much* animation. The problem with "Human Again" was that it was already a six-minute sequence, but since it showed the enchanted objects cleaning the castle, a few subsequent scenes (before Belle leaves the Beast) would have to also be "cleaned up" (the backgrounds had to be redone).

So when it came to do The Lion King, they had to pick a song that wouldn't require too much additional/re-done animation, and "The Morning Report" was the...well, the one they went with. And at a minute's length, it made it the perfect choice financially. I remember before fans knew which song it would be, there was speculation on which one they'd want it to be (I think most wanted "Endless Night"). The fact that they chose "The Morning Report" was met with...well..."they picked that one? Really?"

Albert

[drfsupercenter]

Well yeah, They shoulda called them "the original IMAX version", and not the OTV. Those cleaned up backgrounds look fine, but it's obvious that they messed with it... and at this point the only thing OTV about those DVDs is the audio (unless they changed that too?)

So it would have to be laserdisc with DVD audio... though the CLV Lion King is not very good...

I didn't see either of those movies in IMAX (I didn't even know they put them in such until the DVD came out), though I may possibly have seen The Lion King in theaters (if I did I'm too young to remember it LOL)

Just a bit of useless Disney trivia, but if we really wanna get technical, the true title should be Basil of Baker Street. The box-office failure of Young Sherlock Holmes gave Disney bigwigs cold feet about releasing a movie with a "British sounding" title, so they gave it the less imaginative The Great Mouse Detective. The filmmakers, understandably, were rather upset and pissed that their film was going out with such a stupid title that someone jokingly posted a memo that said Disney was re-titling all their films. I don't remember them all offhand, but I know that Peter Pan was re-christened The Amazing Flying Children or something to that effect, and Lady and the Tramp was...Two Dogs Fall in Love?

That's interesting, I never knew that.

But I'm still interested in finding the original title card as it had in theaters.
The only possible source at this point would be the laserdisc, as I checked the VHS and DVD versions. Does anyone here have that laserdisc? Or know which title title card it has? I'd like to believe that like Lady and the Tramp, there's that one rare release that made it to home video.

[drfsupercenter]

Hm, Saludos Amigos has a Buena Vista on the GCC... not the RKO.

I guess we have to resort to laserdisc for that too? (unless the new collection has it)