Batman [Begins] 2: 2 Villains

Disney-Fan · Post by **Disney-Fan** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:10 am

The poster is AMAZING. This movie can't arrive soon enough! EEE

Simba3 · Post by **Simba3** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:47 am

The pictures DO look great, I'm really looking forward to this movie!

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:29 pm

Forgive me for teasing those who have not seen it (I searched and searched for it but it seems not to be online yet), but has anyone else seen the trailer (and no I'm not talking about the cheesy teaser trailer with just the spoken dialogue that was released earlier this fall, this is a real trailer!)? I saw it today in front of I Am Legend and it was amazing!! Heath Ledger as the Joker seems so positively psychotic! I loved it! Can't wait!

Super Aurora · Post by **Super Aurora** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:26 am

Anthony wrote:Forgive me for teasing those who have not seen it (I searched and searched for it but it seems not to be online yet), but has anyone else seen the trailer (and no I'm not talking about the cheesy teaser trailer with just the spoken dialogue that was released earlier this fall, this is a real trailer!)? I saw it today in front of I Am Legend and it was amazing!! Heath Ledger as the Joker seems so positively psychotic! I loved it! Can't wait!

Got Link? I like to view it too.

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:30 pm

Super Aurora wrote:Got Link? I like to view it too.

While the official web version of the trailer has yet to be released, there is a cam copy direct from the theatre on YouTube. Not the best quality, but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teq5Wtg3VGA

James · Post by **James** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:31 pm

Farout Heath is hot. Sorry, just had to throw that in. I have so much faith in him that he will bring this character justice. Don't worry guys.
-James

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:27 pm

Anthony wrote:
Super Aurora wrote:Got Link? I like to view it too.
While the official web version of the trailer has yet to be released, there is a cam copy direct from the theatre on YouTube. Not the best quality, but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teq5Wtg3VGA

Yeah, watch it before Youtube yanks it

I watched it...he is creeptacular. The voice and laughter was very fitting. I just keep having a hard time with A Knight's Tale/Brokeback Mountain = The Joker. I'll get over it eventually.

Super Aurora · Post by **Super Aurora** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:56 pm

That trailer was sick. This really was awesome. Though I wonder if Nolan also going explain Joker's background on how he became the "Joker".

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:13 pm

I do hope they have a background story for Joker as well. I hate when they just make villains pop up out of no where.

Disney-Fan · Post by **Disney-Fan** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:32 pm

They covered the basics on Joker's origins within the last 5 minutes of BB. A homocidal maniac who was inspired enough by Batman's theatrics to pull a card of his own out of the hat (no pun intended).The white skin is something that needs to be adressed. Besides that I'm pretty sure we got the full lowdown on the Joker.

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:52 pm

No, not really, because each reincarnation of Joker by a new writer they have tweaked and changed it. Frank Miller, The Animated Series, Batman Beyond, and the Burton movies all have different Jokers with different ways he comes into being. So just saying, "well we already know, so skip it.". No, we don't. This is a new writing team, which means a new Joker, which means a new origin or at least an adaptation of an origin. Did he cause himself to be that way? Or his up bringing? Or Batman?

JiminyCrick91 · Post by **JiminyCrick91** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:08 pm

Nolan has been quoted as saying that Joker will be applying make up himself and there will be no chemical bath. He said it was because "To me, the Joker is an absolute. There are no shades of gray to him [...] He bursts in just as he did in the comics.". So there will be no more explanation I don't think.

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:29 pm

Well, I'll reserve serious judgment on all aspects of Joker till I see the movie.

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:03 am

Siren wrote:No, not really, because each reincarnation of Joker by a new writer they have tweaked and changed it. Frank Miller, The Animated Series, Batman Beyond, and the Burton movies all have different Jokers with different ways he comes into being. So just saying, "well we already know, so skip it.". No, we don't. This is a new writing team, which means a new Joker, which means a new origin or at least an adaptation of an origin. Did he cause himself to be that way? Or his up bringing? Or Batman?

And yet the comics managed for about 40 years without a definitive Joker origin story (No, "The Man in the Red Hood" doesn't count because it was almost an "imaginary story" as DC used to quaintly call them - just like various pre-crisis Supergirl origins or indeed most of the origins in the pre-crisis Secret Origins comic book series). And forget about different mediums, the comics have constantly contradicted themselves - I suspect on purpose - because even the framing of the "definitive" Joker origin story "The Killing Joke" suggests some or all of it is down to the Jokers perception (and as we all know the Joker is insane).

I don't see why we need an origin story for the Joker. Characters pop-up in comics all the time and don't have their origins revealed until much later. The Joker is already iconic, and I can easily see no origin being needed.

It's interesting that "The Killing Joke" portrays the Joker as a loser while most (probably all) of the other origins portray him as a career criminal of various standings, from hired thug to mastermind. Millers "Killing Joke" was clearly making a point with his re-imagined origin, but most of the others seem to be more for storytelling convenience than actually adding or saying much about the character. I suspect the "chemical bath" (which did come from "The Man in the Red Hood") itself is so iconic now, no writer can change this, but they feel free to change the circumstances of his dunking.

I would say the Joker as a character actually thrives on no definitive origin. How can you apply logic to insanity? Doesn't the mystery... the sheer randomness of his character and actions... the sheer preversity of his look and M.O. ... the illogical killings... don't they all make him more frightening?

Does knowing he was a chemical engineer who quit his job to follow his dreams of being a stand-up comedian but failed, and broke with no hope and a growing family to support, he is basically blackmailed into not only helping a criminal gang break into his former chemical works, but also tricked into becoming an easily identifiable fall-guy for the gang make him more or less frightening? It certainly helped Frank Miller tell the story he wanted to tell (basically pointing out "hey, life's unfair, but you choose how to deal with it and both Batman and the Joker have chosen wrong), but I'm not sure it helped the Joker as an ongoing character.

An origin for the Joker would be desirable if it actually helped to tell the story of The Dark Knight - after all the story should be the most important consideration, but if it would add nothing or little to the story than I would vote "don't do one".

After all, they managed to leave out the Scarecrow's origin in the first film (especially regarding his history and motivations) and I was the only one who complained about that

See my earlier <strike>rants</strike> posts on this thread.

Super Aurora · Post by **Super Aurora** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:17 pm

Batman said it best to Harlyquin in the animated series:

HARLEY: For what it's worth, I actually enjoyed some of our romps but there comes a time when a gal wants more. And now all this gal wants is to settle down with her lovin' sweetheart.
BATMAN: You and the Joker?
HARLEY: Right-a-roonie!
BATMAN: Heh heh heh heh. . .
HARLEY: I've never seen you laugh before. . .
BATMAN: Ha ha ha ha!
HARLEY: I don't think I like it!
BATMAN: HA HA HA HA!
HARLEY: Cut it out! You're givin' me the creeps!
BATMAN: You little fool. The Joker doesn't love anything except himself. Wake up, Harleen. He had you pegged for hired help the minute you walked into Arkham.
HARLEY: That's not-- no. NO! He told me things, secret things that he never told anyone!
BATMAN: Was it his line about the abusive father? Or the one about the run-away mom. He's gained a lot of sympathy with that one.
HARLEY: Stop it! You're making me confused!
BATMAN: What was it he told that one parole officer. . . Oh yes, "There was only one time I ever saw dad really happy. He took me to the Ice Show when I was seven."
HARLEY: Circus. He said it was the Circus.
BATMAN: He's got a million of them, Harley.

Basically Joker has so many "stories" that no one knows WHO he really is.

I do admit I like the aspect of Joker being a former gangster. Made him look cool like in Mask of Phantasm.

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:35 pm

Yes, I remember that exchange in the show. Loved that part. I do like the idea of Joker as a former gangster as well. We don't know anything about Joker's early life, his childhood and stuff. We only know a few years before his transformation.

Barbossa · Post by **Barbossa** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:15 pm

Here's the official Trailer in high def:
http://atasteforthetheatrical.com/
click on Download Now on that page.

Also, a bootleg of the 6 minute IMAX Dark Knight prologue is on Youtube.

memnv · Post by **memnv** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:22 pm

If you watch the trailer you will notice in scenes his make up does rub off, I saw it on the big screen with I am Legend

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:11 pm

Here are some new pics of The Joker!
http://www.ifitsmovies.com/2008/04/02/a ... mment-1953

I gotta say, I am feeling better about Heath as The Joker. After the trailer and these photos, I think he is going to make this the most memorable Joker ever.

Widdi · Post by **Widdi** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:00 am

Heath sure is going out with a bang isn't he?

I have no doubt at all that he will be the best Joker ever.

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Batman [Begins] 2: 2 Villains