Walt Disney Treasures Wave VIII Discussion

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Chip & Dale (all shorts and TV hosted hours)

Note that most of the shorts with C&D are in fact DD shorts (and the occasional MM). There's just a small number of shorts with C&D "title cards", and if we're lucky they could be included as a bonus on the final Donald volume.

[PeterPanfan]

Why would the Chip N' Dale shorts be released on the Donald set? They're not very relevent to him. They should have been released on the Pluto sets.

[MK Sharp]

I am aware that the Jiminy shorts aren't theatrical, but they are shorts from Walt's day. Many of us, even from my generation going to school in the '80's and '90's, grew up watching the Jiminy shorts at school and on the Disney Channel. I don't doubt for a minute that there are at least 50,000 people who would remember and want to own them. 50,000 really isn't that many.

(...)

Well, again, I think you underestimate the number of worldwide fans of this material greatly. There are well over 300,000,000 people in the U.S. alone.

And yet there is publicly available evidence that less than 50,000 people have bought Chronological Donald Vol 3. Less than 65,000 people have availed themselves of Pluto Vol 2 or The Hardy Boys Treasures in over a year. Of course, Donald Duck isn't as popular or widely remembered as Jiminy Cricket...

(...) so any true fans should see the end of such a line as a huge disappointment.

One could say that a true fan would have bought the Oswald Treasure when it was first released, not three months later. But one wouldn't, because one plays the ball and not the man in discussions like these, yes?

[Big Disney Fan]

Why would the Chip N' Dale shorts be released on the Donald set? They're not very relevent to him. They should have been released on the Pluto sets.

Well, they put the Figaro cartoons on the Pluto set, and I don't think they are any more relevant to the Pluto series than the C&D shorts are to the DD shorts. So if they put the Figaro cartoons on the Pluto set, I don't see why they shouldn't put the C&D shorts on the DD set, especially since they have not been released on the Treasures set yet anyway.

[slave2moonlight]

And yet there is publicly available evidence that less than 50,000 people have bought Chronological Donald Vol 3. Less than 65,000 people have availed themselves of Pluto Vol 2 or The Hardy Boys Treasures in over a year. Of course, Donald Duck isn't as popular or widely remembered as Jiminy Cricket...

Fascinating, and yet they still are releasing a fourth wave (including the highly limited in appeal "Destino" and "Dr. Syn") and released an Oswald set with that knowledge. They know the stuff sells over time, just as I have been saying. Whether they are really shooting for 50,000 or not I don't know, but they must get enough back to turn a profit, or they wouldn't continue even to please the collectors. As I pointed out before, they never were truly ending the Treasures collection, just changing it to Legacy. As for your sarcasm, you can save it. I never said Jiminy was more popular than Donald, though I do feel he's popular enough to sell Treasures sets.

(...) so any true fans should see the end of such a line as a huge disappointment.

One could say that a true fan would have bought the Oswald Treasure when it was first released, not three months later. But one wouldn't, because one plays the ball and not the man in discussions like these, yes?

Not necessarily. It is sometimes a monetary issue. Not everyone can afford to buy three or four Treasures sets at once, no matter how much they'd like to. The point is, just because things don't sell out right away doesn't mean they have stopped selling period.

[a-net-fan]

In complete honesty, it was never the "short films" that I considered the "anchor" of the series! I know for many of you it was. My main draw to the Disney Treasures Collection was the Walt Disney/Disneyland material and the MMC serials and footage. If the collection were just the shorts I would have honestly most likely collected them a little at a time. I wouldnt feel a urgency to get them. SO see.....ppl are not looking for the same things or have the same expectations of this collection. Im sure im not the only one.

If you didnt know much about Swamp Fox or El Fego Baca it wouldnt be a priority of mine to pick up that volume either. I got that title later for that reason but once I got it and watched it I LOVED IT and NOW WANT THE REST OF THE SERIES! With all the great Disney material still left in the vaults to be released Im shocked and annoyed that some are willing to accept, and almost welcome a end to this series. The reason I think alot of us feel that its important for this collection to continue in this form...is because I think we all know that its the only way this type of material is going to get released! I dont think for a minute that they will continue to release this type of material in "another form". Its not just about packaging etc like someone stated earlier.......its about a feeling that if it doesnt show up in this collection it never will. There is too much we want! I sure want the Horsemasters and Escapade in Florence....and more MMC and its serials including Annettes. So lets all just stay loyal to this series and vow to write if we hear any definite plans for the discontinuation of these DVD sets! These are programs I want to share with my kids someday and its importaint to me that the Treasures keep coming year after year after year!

[2099net]

Whether they are really shooting for 50,000 or not I don't know, but they must get enough back to turn a profit, or they wouldn't continue even to please the collectors.

But we're talking about them stopping the collection. So not pleasing the collectors.

I mean, do the maths. 50,000 MAXIMUM sales. Let's say Disney take home make $15 per set after distribution and retail cuts are taken out. (which is probably generous to be honest).

$15 x 50,000 = $750,000. Let's be kind and round that up to $1m.

From that they have to pay for the physical materials, what little advertising and publicity they do for the sets, the supplements being shot, and most importantly the restoration (remember how everybody complained at the releases with apparently no restoration?). Remember most Treasures sets have at least twice the runtime of material to be restored than a animated classic.

Even if the materials are being restored as part of Disney's on-going restoration work, the Treasures clearly have some say in what order the materials are restored (to fit in with their release schedule) so I would say a percentage of the restoration costs will need to be paid from the Treasures production budget. That's how big business works - every department/product is a cost centre, and departments charge or share the costs on work beneficial to both parties.

I don't know if Disney does or doesn't make a profit from the Treasures releases or not. If they don't, in truth they only have themselves to blame because international releases in the series are infrequent, and a worldwide release of each set would be an ideal way to make their costs back with little additional effort.

The question is given all the resources the Treasures set undoubtedly require, are Disney better off putting those resources on making Hannah Montana compilations, or another triple-dip of High School Musical?

Replication costs would be the same (probably cheaper due to higher print runs), staff expenses would be cheaper (the content is easily available, and any behind the scenes stuff is probably already filmed for EPKs at the time or they can just slap on a already produced and promoted music video) and restoration cost would be non-existant.

If a release like Hannah Montana is cheaper to make, sells 10 times as many copies over its lifetime as a limited run Treasure release, and also helps strenghten the "Hannah/Miley" brand for Disney and cross promotes The Disney Channel, CD sales, concerts, t-shirts and other Merchandise, why would Disney choose to spend more money making a Swamp Fox release?

Disney is a huge company. What is probably a decent profit for a smaller company is - frankly - an irrevelence to a company of Disney's size when it comes to accounting.

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Why would the Chip N' Dale shorts be released on the Donald set? They're not very relevent to him. They should have been released on the Pluto sets.

I think they have relevance to Donald, somewhat: Most of C&D's appearances are in DD shorts - and these three or so are just the ones where Donald doesn't appear...

[Mouseketodd]

Along with the balance of Elfego Baca and The Swamp Fox, there's Texas John Slaughter, Gallegher, The Saga of Andy Burnett, Moochie, Daniel Boone, and from MMC: Annette, Corky and the White Shadow, The Hardy Boys, Spin and Marty, Adventure in Dairyland, and Clint and Mac.

...And let's not forget the many good missing features: Song of the South, So Dear to My Heart, The Monkey's Uncle, Escapade in Florence, The Incredible Journey, The Horsemasters, Prince and the Pauper, The Light in the Forest, Kidnapped, Sword and the Rose, Superdad, Mosby's Marauders, Charley and the Angel, Sammy the Way-Out Seal, Child of Glass, etc.

And since feature films are being mentioned, don't forget some of these: Big Red, Emil and the Detectives, Westward Ho the Wagons, Johnny Shiloh (TV), The Littlest Outlaw, Moon Pilot, Almost Angels, and more.

Here's something I found out. These titles are available through the Disney Educational Series: The Light in the Forest (DVD), Justin Morgan had a Horse (DVD), and Scrooge McDuck on Money (VHS). I checked out The Light in the Forest disc from our public library, and the picture was very good -- at least it wasn't poor quality like Natty Gann or Blackbeard's Ghost. I don't understand why these DVD titles can't be released commercially if the transfer is already in existence.

= = = = = =
DISNEY: Thank you very much for the Treasures waves release to date, and for the forthcoming volumes. Please continue the platform by including additional franchises that, at a minimum, match the genres the Walt Disney Treasures already includes.

[gardener14]

Here's something I found out. These titles are available through the Disney Educational Series: The Light in the Forest (DVD), Justin Morgan had a Horse (DVD), and Scrooge McDuck on Money (VHS). I checked out The Light in the Forest disc from our public library, and the picture was very good -- at least it wasn't poor quality like Natty Gann or Blackbeard's Ghost. I don't understand why these DVD titles can't be released commercially if the transfer is already in existence.

What is the Disney Educational Series, and how does one obtain these titles?

[merlinjones]

>>50,000 MAXIMUM sales.<<

False premise.

They aren't really trying to market these titles to anyone outside that box. This could be done easily if they chose. In fact, I seem to recall previous collections caused spokepeople to say they "underestimated demand." Still are.

By and large, middle America's baby boomers that shop at Target and Wall-Mart don't know these are available at any price. Direct marketing, for example, would blow the roof off of traditional Disney title sales with boomers and Grandparents. But the company prefers to pretend they don't exist. Access is everything. Demand must be created, as it always was with reissues.

[Mr. Toad]

Here's something I found out. These titles are available through the Disney Educational Series: The Light in the Forest (DVD), Justin Morgan had a Horse (DVD), and Scrooge McDuck on Money (VHS). I checked out The Light in the Forest disc from our public library, and the picture was very good -- at least it wasn't poor quality like Natty Gann or Blackbeard's Ghost. I don't understand why these DVD titles can't be released commercially if the transfer is already in existence.

What is the Disney Educational Series, and how does one obtain these titles?

For the 38th time Mr. Toad is proud to present the comlete list of Educational Shorts.

1955 You and Your…Five Senses Educational
1955 You and Your…Food Educational
1955 You and Your…Sense of Smell and Taste Educational
1955 You and Your..Sense of Touch Educational
1955 You…The Human Animal Educational
1955 You…The Living Machine Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…As A Pedestrian Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…In A Car Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…In an Emergency Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…In Unsafe Places Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…In Unsafe Places II Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…In Water Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…On Wheels Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…With A Bicycle Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…With Electricity Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…With Fire Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…With Safety At School Educational
1955 I'm No Fool…Having Fun Educational
1956 The Nature of Things Educational
1956 You and Your…Ears Educational
1957 You and Your..Eyes Educational
1962 A Storm Called Maria Educational
1964 Four Artists Paint One Tree Educational
1964 The Restless Sea Educational
1966 One Day at Teton Marsh Educational
1967 Family Planning Educational
1967 Ceramic Mural Educational
1968 Of Cats and Men Educational
1968 Of Horses and Men Educational
1968 The Deer Family Educational
1968 The Weasal Family Educational
1968 The Wild Cat Family - The Cougar Educational
1968 The Wild Dog Family - The Coyote Educational
1968 Triangle of Health Educational
1969 Physical Fitness and Good Health Educational
1969 The Social Side of Health Educational
1969 What Should I Do the Flight? Educational
1969 What Should I Do the Game? Educational
1970 The Bear Family Educational
1970 The Beasts of Burden Family Educational
1970 What Should I Do? The New Girl Educational
1971 Get The Message Educational
1971 Teeth Are for Chewing Educational
1972 History Alive! - Democracy - Equality or Privilege? Educational
1972 History Alive! - Impeachment of A President Educational
1972 History Alive! - State's Rights Educational
1972 History Alive! - The Right of Dissent Educational
1972 History Alive! - The Right of Petition Educational
1972 Leonardo Da Vinci - First Man of the Renaissance Educational
1972 Mrs. Peabody's Beach Educational
1972 The Great Search - Man's Need for Power and Energy Educational
1972 The Magic Whistle Educational
1973 Alaska's Bush Pilot Heritage Educational
1973 Henry O. Tanner: Pioneer American Black Artist Educational
1973 How Alaska Joined the World Educational
1973 John Muir: Father of Our National Parks Educational
1973 The Alaskan Gold Rush Educational
1973 V.D. Attack Plan Educational
1974 Magic and Music Educational
1974 Sequoya Educational
1975 A Day in Nature's Community Educational
1975 Barbara: Inside Out Educational
1975 History of Animation Educational
1975 If the Fergi Fits, Wear It Educational
1976 Filming Nature's Mysteries Educational
1976 The Reunion Educational
1976 Fergi Diversifies Educational
1977 Fergi Goes Inc. Educational
1977 The People on Market Street - Cost Educational
1977 The People on Market Street - Demand Educational
1977 The People on Market Street - Market Clearing Price Educational
1977 The People on Market Street - Property Rights and Pollution Educational
1977 The People on Market Street - Scarcity and Planning Educational
1977 The People on Market Street - Supply Educational
1977 The People on Market Street - Wages and Production Educational
1978 Eyewitness to History - the Events Educational
1978 Eyewitness to History - the Lifestyles Educational
1978 Eyewitness to History - the People Educational
1978 Fergi Meets the Challenge Educational
1978 Tricks of our Trade Educational
1979 Incident at Hawk's Hill Educational
1979 The National Student Fire Safety Test Educational
1979 The National Student First Aid Test Educational
1979 The National Student Recreational Safety Test Educational
1979 The National Student School Safety Test Educational
1979 The National Student Traffic Safety Test Educational
1979 The Truly Exceptional: Carol Johnston Educational
1979 The Truly Exceptional: Don Haley Educational
1979 The Truly Exeptional: Tom and Virl Osmond Educational
1979 Understaning Alcohol Use and Abuse Educational
1979 The Restless Sea Educational
1980 Fit to be You: Flexibility and Body Compisition Educational
1980 Fit to Be You: Hearts and Lungs Educational
1980 Fit to be You: Muscles Educational
1980 Foods and Fun: A Nutricianal Adventure Educational
1980 Rick, You're In: A Story About Mainstreaming Educational
1980 The Sky Trap Educational
1980 The Atom: A Closer Look Educational
1981 Coments: Time Capsules of the Solar System Educational
1981 Reaching Out: A Story about Mainstreaming Educational
1981 Smoking: The Choice is Yours Educational
1981 The Cookie Kid Educational
1981 The Nick Price Story of Non Malipulative Selling: A Better Way To Go Educational
1981 The Nick Price Story of Non Malipulative Selling: An Intro to NMS Educational
1981 The Nick Price Story of Non Malipulative Selling: Flexible Behavior Educational
1981 The Nick Price Story of Non Malipulative Selling: The Voice Educational
1982 America Works…America Sings Educational
1982 Buyer Be Wise Educational
1982 Close Up on the Planets Educational
1982 Computers: The Friendly Invasion Educational
1982 Fitness for Living: How to get Fit Educational
1982 Fitness for Living: Measuring Up Educational
1982 Fitness for Living: What is Physical Fitness? Educational
1982 Get it Right: Following Directions With Goofy Educational
1982 Speaking of Weathers Educational
1982 The Energy Savers Educational
1983 A Goofy Look at Valentine's Day Educational
1983 Computers: The Truth of the Matter Educational
1983 Decision Making: Critical Thought in Action Educational
1983 Disney's Haunted Halloween Educational
1983 Disney's Wonderful World of Winter Educational
1983 Fun to be Fit: Getting Physically Fit Educational
1983 Fun to be fit: Physical Fitness Educational
1983 Fun to be fit: Why by Physically Fit? Educational
1983 Futurework Educational
1983 Jiminy Crickett, PS(Problem Solver) Educational
1983 Skills for a New Technology: What a Kid needs to Know About Communication Skills Educational
1983 Skills for a New Technology: What a Kid needs to Know Today: Living With Change Educational
1983 Skills for a New Technology: What a Kid needs to Know Today: Living with Computers Educational
1983 The Time Travellers' Guide to Energy Educational
1984 Child Molestation: Breaking the Silence Educational
1984 Destinations: Careers Educational
1984 Destinations: Communications Educational
1984 Destinations: Excellence Educational
1984 Destination: Science Educational
1984 Energy in Physics Educational
1984 EPCOT Advanced Information System Educational
1984 Ethics in the Computer Age Educational
1984 Fitness and Me: How to Exercise Educational
1984 Fitness and Me: What is Fitness Exercise? Educational
1984 Fitness and Me: Why Exercise? Educational
1984 Harold and His Amazine Green Plants Educational
1984 Lights! Camera! Fractions! Educational
1984 Now I Can Tell You My Secret Educational
1984 The Challenge of Survival: Chemicals Educational
1984 The Challenge of Survival: Land Educational
1984 The Challenge of Survival: Water Educational
1985 A Time To Tell: Teen Sexual Abuse Educational
1985 Advice on Lice Educational
1985 Before It's Too Late - A Film on Teenage Suicide Educational
1985 Decimals- Whats the Point? Educational
1985 Economics By Choice Educational
1985 Expectations - A Story About Stress Educational
1985 Flight! Educational
1985 On Your Own Educational
1986 Aids Educational
1986 Simple Machines: A Moving Experience Educational

[slave2moonlight]

Whether they are really shooting for 50,000 or not I don't know, but they must get enough back to turn a profit, or they wouldn't continue even to please the collectors.

But we're talking about them stopping the collection. So not pleasing the collectors.

I know. You misread my statement. I meant that they wouldn't continue even for (or, in other words, just for) the purpose of pleasing collectors. That was my point. They'd have to be turning a profit on it.

I mean, do the maths.

We can all keep doing the math (and making educated guesses at best), but in the end, they haven't stopped the series yet, despite the all the folks here making points about how they aren't making their money back. I have experience in producing and selling stuff too, and they must have been benefiting from this line somehow all these years.

The question is given all the resources the Treasures set undoubtedly require, are Disney better off putting those resources on making Hannah Montana compilations, or another triple-dip of High School Musical?

The most expensive aspect of producing the Treasures is the restoration, and that benefits Disney far beyond just the Treasures sets. It's something they need to do anyway. Disney doesn't really spend much, if anything at all, on advertising the product, and they don't spend much on the materials or even making the few supplements the discs carry. In the long run, they are doing the important job of restoring their library and making some immediate money on the side while doing so, however small that amount is. They COULD focus their attention on Hannah Montana and High School Musical, but most of their attention is there already, and yet after a few years those titles will probably become worthless to them, as they seem to think titles like Lizzie McGuire have become. I remember when that was a craze too. Maybe not as big as Hannah or High School, but then they didn't put as much money into it either. Point is, after a while, that stuff dies out, but the Walt-era and theatrical stuff that has been coming out on the Treasures sets has historical value at the very least. Disney is always reusing that material here and there, even if only in clips and documentaries.

If a release like Hannah Montana is cheaper to make, sells 10 times as many copies over its lifetime as a limited run Treasure release, and also helps strenghten the "Hannah/Miley" brand for Disney and cross promotes The Disney Channel, CD sales, concerts, t-shirts and other Merchandise, why would Disney choose to spend more money making a Swamp Fox release?

Disney is a huge company. What is probably a decent profit for a smaller company is - frankly - an irrevelence to a company of Disney's size when it comes to accounting.

And yet, the Disney Treasures line is still not dead...

[Lars Vermundsberget]

In complete honesty, it was never the "short films" that I considered the "anchor" of the series! I know for many of you it was. My main draw to the Disney Treasures Collection was the Walt Disney/Disneyland material and the MMC serials and footage.

That is up to each and every one of us, of course. Yet, considering with which level of consistency various material has been released in the WDT line I still think it's not quite unfair to say that the animated shorts constitute the "anchor" of the series. The only other sort of material they've attempted to complete in the WDTs would be what was completed in a single set in the first place - such as Davy Crockett and the first adventures of Spin & Marty and the Hardy Boys.

Even though I consider the animated shorts the most important material, which is pretty much about to be completed, I have enjoyed all of the sets and I would welcome more Mickey Mouse Club, Hardy Boys, Spin & Marty, Swamp Fox and Elfego Baca!

[MK Sharp]

And yet, the Disney Treasures line is still not dead...

No, but I reckon it's down on the canvas and breathing hard. "Lazarus" Treasures looked like he was about to be counted out in the 6th round, amid accusations that he'd gone into the 5th round ill-prepared; but the audience cheered him on and he staggered back to his feet to fight on a little more. But as we head into the 8th round he's looking punch-drunk and the worse for wear, and I don't know how long he can keep standing. "Honest" Matt Sharp at the Carringbush Tote is offering 2:1 on Lazarus being king-hit by the end of round 8, but over in the Lone Star State they're showing more faith in the old feller and are tipping he's good for another couple of rounds yet. Only the future will tell us what's in store next for our faded but fighting champion. The excitement is mounting here at the ring; stay tuned to WKUD for all the action as it happens!

[Mr. Toad]

>>50,000 MAXIMUM sales.<<

False premise.

They aren't really trying to market these titles to anyone outside that box. This could be done easily if they chose. In fact, I seem to recall previous collections caused spokepeople to say they "underestimated demand." Still are.

By and large, middle America's baby boomers that shop at Target and Wall-Mart don't know these are available at any price. Direct marketing, for example, would blow the roof off of traditional Disney title sales with boomers and Grandparents. But the company prefers to pretend they don't exist. Access is everything. Demand must be created, as it always was with reissues.

Okay, what specific marketing do you think will work? You say use direct marketing but that is what they are already using, direct targeted advertising. Really the most cost effective type of marketing.

[blackcauldron85]

What is the Disney Educational Series, and how does one obtain these titles?

For the 38th time Mr. Toad is proud to present the comlete list of Educational Shorts.

I think that gardener14 is wondering (as am I) if there is a DVD/VHS collection entitled the Disney Educational Series (you know, like how there is a Gold Collection series, Platinum Edition Series, etc.). I just looked for "Justin Morgan Had a Horse" on DVD on Amazon, and it's not there, and UD lists it as being OOP on VHS...if it's on DVD, it's news to us. Any information would be welcome!

[Big Disney Fan]

I took note of the Donald shorts released between 1951 and '61, the year range covered this time around on DD 4, and it was mentioned that the set would boast 31 of the duck's shorts from this time period (in short, all the duck shorts in this period). I wondered if the set might include Donald In Mathmagicland and Donald and the Wheel. I took note of the shorts, as I said, and put them all together, including the educational shorts about math (Donald In Mathmagicland) and the history of the wheel (Donald and the Wheel) and sure enough, I noticed that the duck's 31 shorts in this period would in fact include those two educational shorts.

So we may in fact see "Donald In Mathmagicland" and "Donald and the Wheel" on the Donald series after all, instead of on a set all about the educational shorts.

[gardener14]

I think that gardener14 is wondering (as am I) if there is a DVD/VHS collection entitled the Disney Educational Series (you know, like how there is a Gold Collection series, Platinum Edition Series, etc.). I just looked for "Justin Morgan Had a Horse" on DVD on Amazon, and it's not there, and UD lists it as being OOP on VHS...if it's on DVD, it's news to us. Any information would be welcome!

That's exactly what I was asking...not for an overly long list of unrelated "educational" programs. The post that prompted my question made it sound as though there is a dvd series containing A Light in the Forest and Justin Morgan Had a Horse, but I'm unaware of these dvd's or that so-called Educational series. Could you please enlighten me?

[Mr. Toad]

Gardener - sorry for the misunderstanding. There is no such DVD series. The only educational shorts are odd ones available on treasure series - specifically Tomorrowland. They are far and few between. There are a lot available on VHS but they were not made available commercially just to libraries and schools. I have never seen a list.

The two titles you mentioned are both Disneyland/Wonderful World of Disney episodes, not educational releases.