Final Death Blow for HDVD, PMNT out(Feb 16 Toshiba quits)

Discussion of non-Disney DVD and Blu-ray.
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DarthPrime
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Post by DarthPrime »

Paka wrote:
DarthPrime wrote:Doesn't sound like they have completely given up on HD DVD yet, or either they are just going to make money off of titles they know will sell.
I guess you're one of the people who still thinks it's March 2006, as well. :roll:
Huh?

Disney was rumored for ages to support HD DVD, but it never happened... it will not happen. All the Warner announcement basically says is they will still provide some HD DVD material if there is a need. Which I think is odd since everyone has labeled HD DVD as a "dead" format now, which it probably is. And Warner recently announced that they were going Blu-ray exclusive, so why still say that there might be a HD DVD title or two?

Anyway if the news of Toshiba giving up is true then it is over for HD DVD. I find it hard to think they will just walk away, but right now there isn't much that HD DVD can do. Blu-ray has really been picking up steam with stores, studios, etc... lately.
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Post by Mr. Toad »

DarthPrime wrote:[ I find it hard to think they will just walk away, but right now there isn't much that HD DVD can do. Blu-ray has really been picking up steam with stores, studios, etc... lately.
Why do you find it hard to believe? You have quite succinctly stated why they have no choice. The people spoke choosing Blu Ray in software by a 2 to 1 margin.
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Post by DarthPrime »

Mr. Toad wrote:
DarthPrime wrote:[ I find it hard to think they will just walk away, but right now there isn't much that HD DVD can do. Blu-ray has really been picking up steam with stores, studios, etc... lately.
Why do you find it hard to believe? You have quite succinctly stated why they have no choice. The people spoke choosing Blu Ray in software by a 2 to 1 margin.
Its true they don't have a choice in the end with the way the war went. However I didn't think Toshiba would call it quits this soon. Toshiba has put a lot of time and money into the HD DVD format. I knew eventually if Blu-ray won that Toshiba would dump HD DVD, I just didn't think it would be this fast. With this news I'm beginning to see that the recent price drop was nothing more than to clear out stock before HD DVD was offically dead.

I guess if Toshiba does make this announcement we will finally hear from Paramount/Universal about their future plans. At least people with HD DVD players will get some nice blow out sales on HD DVDs. I'm sure stores will be dumping them at some pretty low prices if the announcement is made.

I still think its kind of odd that the winning format has less stand alone player sales than the losing format. However if you count the PS3 Blu-ray has a huge lead on player sales. I think a lot of this has to do with the Blu-ray spec not being finished yet, and people knew the PS3 would be able to be upgraded to 1.1 and 2.0. When 1.1 and 2.0 players are available and go down in price I'm sure this will change.

The Toshiba news is being posted on a lot of sites, so it might be true. Also one site is reporting that Toshiba has plans to release two Blu-ray players later this year ($250 and $350).
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Post by Paka »

To paraphrase an old adage, you really love to make a mole hill out of a mountain, Darth. Your constant, verbose downplay of Blu-ray's very clear victories is downright obnoxious. As is your consistent "surprise" at every turn of event in Blu-ray's favor. If you love that DVD-on-steriods format so much, just buy a firesale player and shut it, already.

I really don't enjoy sounding so belligerent, but the perpetual FUDing from the likes of James and DarthPrime grate my on nerves somethin' fierce. It helps little to be so reactive, but if these guys are going to be so emotional over the whole affair... well, so I may be, too. Go ahead and label me a fangirl - I don't care. Can't you people just graciously admit defeat and get the whole bloody affair over with? Good lo'... >_<
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Post by Widdi »

So Blu-Ray has won the battle, but as far as I'm concerned it won't win the war.

There isn't enough demand. There have been countless surveys done that show that the average consumer just doesn't care about Blu-Ray or this whole pointless format war. Blu-Ray caters to die hard film lovers, and even many of them are shunning the format. A good friend of mine who owns over 5000 DVDs, has his entire house decorated in movie memorabilia and has a mini movie theater in his basement hasn't bothered with HD and says he wont.

Why?

because he, like the majority of people, is perfectly satisfied with standard DVD and doesn't believe that the improvements Blu-Ray offers over DVD are substantial enough to warrant replacing that massive collection. DVD was innovative enough over VHS to become a standard format. Blu Ray is not.

Blu-Ray wont die like HD-DVD, it will become this generation's laserdisc. A superior alternative available to those who want it.

You want to know what will replace DVD as a standard format? Digital Downloads. You can bet that as soon as a piece of equipment that can store hundreds of movies on it is released that DVD will die. People want an iPod like device that will hook up to their TVs and store their movies. Investing in Blu-ray now because you think it's about to become a standard format is a mistake. These home entertainment ipods are just around the corner, and when they come out people will be saying "blue what?".

Mark my words.
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Post by 2099net »

Paka, I don't think Darth or I have ever denied its over. In fact did you ever see this thread started by ME? I've tried to be as balanced as possible, but I have never hid my leaning to red (mainly because of regions which I know doesn't bother you and you'll probably say I am making a mountain out of that molehill).

HD DVD is dead. Warners goes Blu-ray exclusive!

The question isn't is HD DVD dead? Its how long will it to all intents and purposes survive in the wild, and is it still worth getting a player. You know how many HD DVD discs I have. In my case it was. Especially if said players would be harder to come by in the mid-future onwards (due to the format dying).
Widdi wrote:You want to know what will replace DVD as a standard format? Digital Downloads. You can bet that as soon as a piece of equipment that can store hundreds of movies on it is released that DVD will die.
To store hundreds of HD movies will require an enormous amount of storage. Huge. I'm not sure we'll ever have that much storage in anyone's home at all. I think the trend will be for people to "rent" storage on on-line server farms and stream everything from that. That seems to be the current trend with systems like the PS3 and the X360 for example having small HDD storage, but relying on the user's PC as a media server. The ultimate and logical extension of this is for the person's PC to rely on an external datastore as its media/data server. But that's years away because the telecommunications inferstructure just isn't there. Service providers are increasingly penalising users with heavy internet traffic (partly in order to provide a consistant experience for every other user). I think we're talking 15-20 years at least.

Meanwhile downloads are currently not the answer. People need a PC with a TV out and a reasonable quality audio out or a new-generation gaming console or will have to invest in a all new set-top box. The cost of buying such equipment will be the same as buying a blu-ray player anyway - and who's to say if you choose a player with online facilities your on-line capable blu-ray player won't also download movies? Let's face it, the PS3 will. Why not plug in a USB storage stickor USB HDD and download a movie to that over your Pioneer stand-alone blu-ray player? I'm sure manufacturers are already thinking about it and I'm sure it will happen, even if it takes another couple of years.

Downloads have a place, but I don't see downloads ever becomming as mainstream as DVD now. One reason is that due to location not everyone has the communications bandwidth available for downloads or if they do have the bandwidth its by "alternative" means and too expensive. The second is the storage issue. Downloads will for a long, long time be confined to the rental, limited use category (IMO). I've never seen downloads as the direct competitor to either HD format. The biggest competitor is - as everyone knows - DVD itself.

It doesn't help that DVD has become such a "disposable" format due to pricing. Ratatouille (2 discs over here too) just came out over here in the UK and you can get it for between £8-£9* if you shop in the right store. The same stores are selling the Blu-ray for £18-£22. It's going to be hard to inspire most people to switch when there's that price difference.

* Note: All three of these prices are no doubt "launch" promotions running for a limited time as the stores compete with each other for custom and footfall.

However Buena Vista UK regularly has Buy-One Get-One-Free deals on their titles 1 or 2 times a year, meaning for all intents and purposes its likely Ratatouille will be available for around £8 again in a few months.
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Post by Mr. Toad »

Japanese TV is reporting Toshiba is shutting down its HD-DVD manufacturing facilities. Reuters is confirming the story.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyN ... 6120080216

And you all said I was nuts for saying it would be over in less than six months. In actuality the format lasted just under six weeks after the Warner Bros announcement.

Also some retailers have Transformers and Blades of Glory Blu Rays up for order. So even without a Paramount announcement they are back in Blu Ray.

Poor Universal they are out in the cold.
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Post by DarthPrime »

Blades of Glory was already pressed on Blu-ray before the Paramount HD DVD annoucement last year, but it was recalled and not released.

I'm sure Paramount will be able to jump back into Blu-ray production very quickly since they already have things setup from before. It will take Universal a little time, but they will eventually start releasing in Blu-ray.

With Toshiba raising the white flag, its over. I honestly didn't think it would happen this fast. I really thought it would drag out until June and then eventually happen before the fall. I guess Toshiba wants to cut their loss ahead of time. This will also give Blu-ray a few more months to get more established before the holidays. Holiday 2008 should be pretty good for Blu-ray, and I'm sure 2009 will pickup more.

In the end, yes I'm sad HD DVD is now dead, but I am glad the war is over. At least you can buy without the worry of picking the wrong format.
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Post by DarthPrime »

Toshiba announced the offical death of HD DVD today. Also Universal went Blu, saying that one format would benefit high def and consumers.

The war is finally offically over.
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Post by Barbossa »

"Oh no! HD-DVD!" -Snake, from an unproduced, unaired possible future episode of The Simpsons. :lol:
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Post by TheSequelOfDisney »

DarthPrime wrote:Toshiba announced the offical death of HD DVD today. Also Universal went Blu, saying that one format would benefit high def and consumers.

The war is finally offically over.
YES! Now all we have to do is wait for Paramount (I think) and a possible release of Sweeney and Mamma Mia on Blu! Thanks for the news Darth, this pretty much made my day (and since I'm sick, it makes me feel better that now I can get my favorite movies on Blu-ray).
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Post by 2099net »

TheSequelOfDisney wrote:
DarthPrime wrote:Toshiba announced the offical death of HD DVD today. Also Universal went Blu, saying that one format would benefit high def and consumers.

The war is finally offically over.
YES! Now all we have to do is wait for Paramount (I think) and a possible release of Sweeney and Mamma Mia on Blu! Thanks for the news Darth, this pretty much made my day (and since I'm sick, it makes me feel better that now I can get my favorite movies on Blu-ray).
Even if Paramount/Dreamworks don't switch in the near future, you can import Sweeny Todd from Europe as its released by Warner Bros and will be region free.
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Post by Just Myself »

2099net wrote:
TheSequelOfDisney wrote: YES! Now all we have to do is wait for Paramount (I think) and a possible release of Sweeney and Mamma Mia on Blu! Thanks for the news Darth, this pretty much made my day (and since I'm sick, it makes me feel better that now I can get my favorite movies on Blu-ray).
Even if Paramount/Dreamworks don't switch in the near future, you can import Sweeny Todd from Europe as its released by Warner Bros and will be region free.
I noticed Warner was all region free. I look forward to importing Beowulf. :D

I'm really glad to hear this news. Fingers crossed I'll finally be able to pick up a high-def release of the Back To The Future's and all of Spielberg's stuff. :)

Cheers,
JM :thumb:
Cheers,
JM :thumb:
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Post by TheSequelOfDisney »

2099net wrote:Even if Paramount/Dreamworks don't switch in the near future, you can import Sweeny Todd from Europe as its released by Warner Bros and will be region free.
Yes, but will it play on a PS3? I have also never imported a film from another country and I don't know how expensive it would be to do so. Do you think that Dreamworks would eventually release Sweeney on Blu-ray?
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Post by 2099net »

TheSequelOfDisney wrote:
2099net wrote:Even if Paramount/Dreamworks don't switch in the near future, you can import Sweeny Todd from Europe as its released by Warner Bros and will be region free.
Yes, but will it play on a PS3? I have also never imported a film from another country and I don't know how expensive it would be to do so. Do you think that Dreamworks would eventually release Sweeney on Blu-ray?
Yes it would play. It is region free and there are no PAL/NTSC issues on either HD format.

Dreamworks will release Sweeny Todd on Blu-ray. HD DVD is on life support. It's wired up to the machine which goes "beep" in the hospital, and the beeps are getting further and further apart. There's not long left now.

We don't know Paramount's intentions, but they did announce Sweeny Todd for HD DVD the other day - AFTER Toshiba announced winding down the HD DVD format hardware. I guess it depends on how quick Paramount switches back to Blu-ray. If its after Sweeny Todd is released, they may decide to concentrate on new day and date titles, and catch up on their HD DVD exclusive titles later. Or they may decide to re-launch on Blu-ray with a big selection of titles.

But Sweeny Todd will come out on Blu-ray.
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Post by Mr. Toad »

2099net wrote: We don't know Paramount's intentions, .
We do now. Paramount went Blu today. No word from Dreamworks but we can assume whatever Paramount does so will sister company Dreamworks Animation.

No announcement yet, but they have removed HD-DVD Sweeney Todd from the schedule after Tuesday's contribution to most embarrasing press releases of all time announcing that and two other titles as coming to HD-DVD. It was announced at the very same moment Universal pulled out and apparently had been quede for release a couple of weeks ago in some system and nobody thought to retract it.
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Post by DarthPrime »

Mr. Toad wrote:
2099net wrote: We don't know Paramount's intentions, .
We do now. Paramount went Blu today. No word from Dreamworks but we can assume whatever Paramount does so will sister company Dreamworks Animation.

No announcement yet, but they have removed HD-DVD Sweeney Todd from the schedule after Tuesday's contribution to most embarrasing press releases of all time announcing that and two other titles as coming to HD-DVD. It was announced at the very same moment Universal pulled out and apparently had been quede for release a couple of weeks ago in some system and nobody thought to retract it.
It didn't take long for Paramount to switch, and I don't blame them after Toshiba pulled the plug on HD DVD. Dreamworks will be coming along shortly if they haven't already. It sounds like the studios are cancelling HD DVD releases pretty quick as well. I wondering if any new titles will make it out past March.

Oppo has also announced that they will be making a Blu-ray player. I'm very excited about this. Oppo has made excellent upscaling DVD players, and if their Blu-ray player matches the quality of their other players it will be the Blu-ray player to get. Hopefully it comes out before the holidays with Profile 2.0, and be reasonably priced.
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Post by Mr. Toad »

DarthPrime wrote:
Mr. Toad wrote:

Oppo has also announced that they will be making a Blu-ray player. I'm very excited about this. Oppo has made excellent upscaling DVD players, and if their Blu-ray player matches the quality of their other players it will be the Blu-ray player to get. Hopefully it comes out before the holidays with Profile 2.0, and be reasonably priced.
I just want something that is less than $400, loads reasonably fast and can be updated without copying a CD. Is this too much to ask? Apparently so far it is.
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Post by MICKEYMOUSE »

^^ Ummm it is called a PS3. For $399.99 you get the best Blu-Ray player out on the market, it can also plays games, has a hard drive, can go on the internet (surf web), and can be updated via the internet (Firmware updates).
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Post by Mr. Toad »

MICKEYMOUSE wrote:^^ Ummm it is called a PS3. For $399.99 you get the best Blu-Ray player out on the market, it can also plays games, has a hard drive, can go on the internet (surf web), and can be updated via the internet (Firmware updates).
By the time you get all the add ons like the necessary remote control though its over $400. And I have come close on multiple occaisions to buying one. I guess the only thing stopping me is my WII. Dont want two systems but I guess that is irrelevant if I dont buy any games(except Justice League Heroes)
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