The Official UD Politics Thread: Election Year Edition

[DaveWadding]

I thought this was a good idea because these types of threads generally cause a lot of vitriol around these parts, and usually it involves a lot of mod cleanup because people take their political beefs into other threads on the forum, so I think that a general thread might be the best idea.

Rules:

1. DO NOT take your political beefs into other threads. PLEASE.

2. Be as nice as you possibly can be. I realize that politics any more is more based on putting down the other guy than presenting any good ideas and as such, when politics are debated, we are programmed to act the same way. I understand that there are political differences, but that doesn't mean we have to resort to personal attacks.

So: The Iowa caucuses and Super Tuesday are rather soon. Who do you think should win from each side? Who do you think should/will ultimately become the 44th POTUS?

[Simba3]

From what I hear, it seems that Barack Obama is gaining a lot of support in Iowa, which will make today's caucus results rather close. However, I think ultimately Hillary will prevail in Iowa, and furthermore will prevail for the Democratic party and be the bid for President. Overall, I favor Hillary Clinton, I think she would be great for the United States. I really like Barack Obama as well, but I feel that he may lack the experience necessary to be an effective President. I would love to see Hillary run for President with Barack Obama as her Vice President.

As for the Republicans, it seems that Mike Huckabee is rapidly gaining support all across the nation. Giuliani seems to be slipping from his lead, but I still think he will be a strong contender. For the Republicans, I think it will come down to Huckabee and Giuliani. At the rate it is going right now, I think Huckabee might have the support and momentum to steal the light from Giuliani who seems to be fizzling out.

[castleinthesky]

Ron Paul for the win.

Full list of nationwide candidates (for both major parties, most minor parties have yet to have most candidates announce), for everyone's info:

Democrats:
Senator of New York Hilary Clinton
Former Senator of North Carolina John Edwards
Former Senator of Alaska Mike Gravel
Congressman from Ohio Dennis Kucinich
Senator of Illinois Barack Obama

Dropped Out:
Senator of Indiana Evan Bayh
Senator of Delaware Joe Biden
Senator of Connecticut Chris Dodd
Governor of New Mexico Bill Richardson
Former Governor of Iowa Tom Vilsack

Republicans
Former City Mayor of New York City Rudolph Giuliani
Former Governor of Arkansas Mike Huckabee
Former Ambassador Alan Keyes
Senator from Arizona John McCain
Congressman from Texas Ron Paul
Former Governor of Massachusetts Mitt Romney
Former Senator of Tennesse Fred Thompson

Dropped Out:
Senator of Kansas Sam Brownback
Businessman from Illinois John H. Cox
Former Governor of Virginia Jim Gilmore
Congressman from California Duncan Hunter
Congressman from Colorado Tom Tancredo
Former Governor of Wisconsin Tommy Thompson


My predictions for the Iowa Caucas

Conservative predicts:

Republicans:
1. Romney
2. Huckabee
3. Paul
4. McCain
5. Thompson
6. Giuliani
7. Keyes
8. Hunter

will not poll: Cox

Democrats:
1. Edwards
2. Obama
3. Clinton
4. Richardson
5. Biden
6. Kucinich
7. Gravel
8. Dodd

No Guts, No Glory predicts:

Republicans:
1. Paul
2. Huckabee
3. Romney
4. McCain
5. Keyes
6. Thompson
7. Giuliani
8. Hunter
9. Cox

Democrats:
1. Edwards
2. Richardson
3. Obama
4. Biden
5. Clinton
6. Dodd
7. Kucinich
8. Gravel

[Ting Ting]

I'm all about Edwards winning over the Democratic support at the Iowa caucus this evening, but that's just wishful thinking. It will probably end up being Hillary, which does not make me happy at all.

As for my opinion on the Republican candidates, I'm really not sure yet. I've yet to find a right winged candidate that I have high hopes for in this election. But I guess my opinion could change between now and November.

[dvdjunkie]

If there is such a list of worst choices of candidates then in my opinion Hilary Clinton would be the top of the list of worst choices. She has never held a job in the common marketplace. She doesn't know what the common man goes through each day working an eight to ten hour day and having to pay taxes. She has had everything handed to her on a silver platter and that is what she expects for the Presidential primaries.

The second worst candidate is Ron Paul. He is not living in the 21st Century. All of his ideas are years behind us, and he has no forward thinking. I don't want illegals to be pardoned, I want my borders to be buttoned down.

As a registered independent I want to see a candidate that speaks to the common man, to the working guy who has to put three meals on the table for a family and has to hold his head high when the times get rough.

John Edwards would be a great choice for the Democrats. He has the experience needed to lead the country, and I think that he listens to the American people better than any of the other candidates.

Mike Huckabee is a good choice for the Republicans because he believes in the 'fair tax', and knows that it will be an uphill battle to get it passed. He also wants to seal our borders, and wants to register all of the illegal aliens here in the US. He wants Americans to all come together and lead the fight against corruption in the government, and make us a stronger, United States of America.

I have not made any decision yet on a candidate to support, only the ones that I don't want to see make it to the final ballot. The United States of America is not ready for a woman President, much another Clinton in the White House. Does anyone remember all the problems we had with Bill not being faithful to his wife, or to our country.

I only ask that we all vote when the time comes, and that we vote with common sense, not with what our friends say is right. Vote for what is good for this country, not because you think that person is good looking, or has a big following. Read about all of the candidates, and don't just vote for a Democrat because you are a registered Democrat. There is no sin against crossing party lines.

[castleinthesky]

The second worst candidate is Ron Paul. He is not living in the 21st Century. All of his ideas are years behind us, and he has no forward thinking. I don't want illegals to be pardoned, I want my borders to be buttoned down.

And you could elaborate to as why Ron Paul is not living in the 21st century?

And is your reference to illegals meaning that Ron Paul wants illegals pardoned? If so, it is wrong, since Ron Paul is one of the current biggest fighters of illegal immigration running, along with Duncan Hunter.

[Ting Ting]

John Edwards would be a great choice for the Democrats. He has the experience needed to lead the country, and I think that he listens to the American people better than any of the other candidates.

I couldn't agree more. I went to see Edwards speak at a convention a couple of months ago and I've never seen a person who is more compassionate about their country. He shows a strong sense of will and determination that I have never seen in any other presidential candidate. This is a candidate who has shown me that he will stop at nothing to achieve his goals for our country, which is why John Edwards has my support.

Read about all of the candidates, and don't just vote for a Democrat because you are a registered Democrat. There is no sin against crossing party lines.

AMEN! I'm sick and tired of this nation being so "Left VS. Right" all the time. People should just stop taking sides and vote for who they truly believe would be the most suitable leader for our country. Perhaps then we would be able to dig ourselves out of this hole we're in at a much quicker pace.

As for the Iowa caucus results, I'm just glad that Hillary didn't come out victorious. I would much rather see Obama's name on the final ballot than I would Hillary's. I'm also glad to see that Huckabee won over the support of the Republican side, as he would <i>probably</i> be my first choice out of the Republican candidates.

[Ktrek]

If Edwards gets the Democratic nominationI will probably vote for him but if Hillary does my vote will be cast for whoever I think can beat her no matter who that may be!

Kevin

[MadonnasManOne]

I am so tired of several people here putting Hillary Clinton down. Not surprising, though, that those people are men. The main reason I see this happening, is because those men are intimidated by her, and don't want a woman being in a position of power. You can deny it all you want, but, that's exactly what is happening. You need to wake up, and realize that this is the 21st Century. Women are more than capable of holding a position of leader of their country. There are women that are the head of their country, all over the world, that are doing very well for their country.

I am also tired of people like dvdjunkie making assumptions about Hillary Clinton, when he has no idea what he's talking about. First of all, learn how to spell Hillary Clinton. You make the mistake, every single time, of spelling it "Hilary", when it is Hillary. If you are going to put someone down at every chance you can, at least make sure you know how to spell their name. Seriously! You don't know if Hillary Clinton has ever held a job in the "common marketplace". Did you know her as a teenager? Have you followed her through her entire life? She is 60 years old, after all? How do you know what jobs she held while in high school and college? You also claim that she doesn't know what it's like to work eight to ten hours a day, and pay taxes? Excuse me? First of all, she excelled in school, where she eventually went on to become the first student to speak at commencement exercises for Wellesley College. She enrolled there in 1965. That summer, Hillary Clinton worked her way across Alaska, washing dishes at Mount McKinley National Park. That sounds like a common marketplace to me. Secondly, her career as a lawyer was spent providing services for poor children, for free, and working on social issues that were close to her heart, such as problems in housing, sanitation, health and education. She spent a great deal more than "eight to ten" hours a day, providing free services, and researching these issues, to help people who were less fortunate than her. Also, she, like everyone else, has to pay taxes.

I am sure that a great many people would be surprised to learn that Hillary Clinton has had a very distinguished career, before becoming First Lady and then Senator of New York. People don't want to take a little time to find out about all of the many good things she has done for people. They want to characterize her by her husband, rather than by her own merrits. Then, there are those ignorant males, some of who frequent this board, who say, in their MANLY voices, "I don't want no woman running this country. I'll vote against her, no matter what!". So be it. I'll be smiling when she is President of the United States of America, making a real difference, while she leaves those ignorant males scratching their heads.

By the way, I am voting for Hillary, because I believe in her. Not because she is good looking, or has a big following, or any of that stuff. I'm voting for her because she has experience that will be a huge asset as President. She has respect from leaders of other countries, because they realize that she wants to work towards peace, and she is willing to listen. She's not going to just jump on the gun, so to speak, as our current President has done.

So, go ahead and bash Hillary Clinton. However, she, more than any other candidate, has the experience, the desire, and the ability to lead American to bigger and brighter days, and when she is President, she will prove her detractors wrong, in every single way!

[DaveWadding]

I am so tired of several people here putting Hillary Clinton down. Not surprising, though, that those people are men. The main reason I see this happening, is because those men are intimidated by her, and don't want a woman being in a position of power. You can deny it all you want, but, that's exactly what is happening. You need to wake up, and realize that this is the 21st Century. Women are more than capable of holding a position of leader of their country. There are women that are the head of their country, all over the world, that are doing very well for their country.

Oh give me a break! I can tell you one thing sir, that I don't think hat Hillary is that great of a candidate. She's running because she has name recognition. I've never heard anything out of her really resembling a coherent vision for this country. I would have zero problem voting for a woman President...this doesn't bother me. What does bother me is the fact that most people who go out to the polls and see her name (as they sadly most likely will) and they'll pick her solely cause they'll be like "ooh...I know who she is!"

To really get change in this country, we need to get fresh blood in there. I think Obama is THE guy for this country right now.

[Dottie]

The votes have been counted:

Democrat:
* Senator Barack Obama 37.58%
* Senator John Edwards 29.75%
* Senator Hillary Clinton 29.47%
* Governor Bill Richardson 2.11%
* Senator Joe Biden 0.93%
* unentschieden 0.14%
* Senator Chris Dodd 0.02%

Republican:
* Mike Huckabee 34%
* Mitt Romney 25%
* Fred Thompson 13%
* John McCain 13%
* Ron Paul 10%
* Rudy Giuliani 3%
* Duncan Hunter 0%
* Tom Tancredo 0%

[castleinthesky]

I
I'm voting for her because she has experience that will be a huge asset as President. She has respect from leaders of other countries, because they realize that she wants to work towards peace, and she is willing to listen. She's not going to just jump on the gun, so to speak, as our current President has done.

However, she, more than any other candidate, has the experience, the desire, and the ability to lead American to bigger and brighter days, and when she is President, she will prove her detractors wrong, in every single way!

Is she really working for peace? She supported her husbands invasions of the Balkans and Somalia. She voted for the un-consititutional, un-just Iraq War, and continues to fund the war.

She may have a lot of experience during her life, but how much is actual political experience. She is in her 2nd term as junior senator of New York. She has no other political experience (first lady surely should not count, because being married to someone either it be male or female, does not give you political experience). Huckabee, Obama, Romney, and Edwards all also have very little experience.

[AwallaceUNC]

Huckabee, Obama, Romney, and Edwards all also have very little experience.

Huckabee was a state governor for more than two terms. Before that, he spent more than a full term as lieutenant governor. Not sure how that can be fairly labeled as "little experience".

-Aaron

[Chernabog_Rocks]

I agree with MadonnasManOne, I don't really know anything about Hillary except for what I learned in MM1's post and I see no reason why she wouldn't make a perfectly fine candidate for president. I mean honestly, she seems like a large step up from Bush IMHO. I don't know why people keep dragging Bill Clinton into this, he's not the one running for president, Hillary is so it's rather silly to use him as a reason to bash her and make her seem like a poor choice.


I also think that the US is ready for a woman president, and probably has been for a while now but it's ignorance keeping it from happening.

[Lazario]

Predictably with me, I think our best Presidential hopeful will be pro-choice and will have the spine to finally do something to bring about legalizing gay marriages.

Of course I'm holding my breath. But why the hell are our Presidents always dumber than the public?

[dvdjunkie]

MM1, it isn't that I am against a woman for President. I am sure that there are plenty of candidates out there who would make fine Presidents, but Hillary isn't one of them. She has no experience in the office, and like others have said, being married to a crook.........errrr, former President, doesn't make her a good choice for the office. She has offered no vision of the future for our country. She flip-flops on almost every issue, and if you watch her on David Letterman you can see how genuinely un-real she is. Without a script-writer, she wouldn't know how to make an intelligent conversation.

Mrs. Clinton is going on name recognition only, and unfortunately for most of us, that may get her elected. But then it is the gay people of our country who will pay the price. She has already stated that it is her belief that homosexuality is a choice, and is a sin, and she cannot support any type of marriage other than one man-one woman. So she will lose the gay vote there for that stand.

How about offering couples a cash bond for each child they bear? Now that was totally insane and I know she has backed off of that for now.

We need change, we need a leader, and we someone who knows what the heck they are doing when it comes to protecting our country from all sorts of things.

A woman for President? I am all for it. Hillary Clinton for President, she is not the choice for all Americans.

Since I am a registered Independent, I want to hear what all the candidates are offering to protect our country. Will they seal our borders. What are their plans for the illegal aliens in our country? What about our taxes, how far up are they going to raise them? What about the 'fair tax' plan? We need to know the answers to these questions and more, and so far, no many of them are answering these questions or offering any ideas for the future.

We need to vote with our brains, not with our hearts, or because we THINK this person is the right person for the job. We need to read between the lines, and find out who has our best interests at heart and who can express them clearly and succinctly. Remember this is the person who is going to guide our country for another four years and we all know that we don't want it headed in the wrong direction.

[MadonnasManOne]

Mrs. Clinton is going on name recognition only, and unfortunately for most of us, that may get her elected. But then it is the gay people of our country who will pay the price. She has already stated that it is her belief that homosexuality is a choice, and is a sin, and she cannot support any type of marriage other than one man-one woman. So she will lose the gay vote there for that stand.

How about offering couples a cash bond for each child they bear? Now that was totally insane and I know she has backed off of that for now.

Bill, I really don't know where you get your information. I think you must have somehow gone into an alternate reality, and heard some mumbo jumbo, and decided to intrepret those words, and put them into the mouth of Hillary Clinton. I have never heard her utter one word that you claim she has. Again, you assume I don't research any of the candidates, and am just basing my vote for a name I recognize. That's not the case. I believe she is the best candidate for President, and will our country better than anyone else who is running. You keep saying she has no experience. How is it that someone who has been a lawyer, is the wife of Bill Clinton, who was Governer of Arkansas and President of the United States of America (with insight into all of the behind the scenes action of those duties), was chairwoman of the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, and is now a Senator of New York, just to name very few of the many things she has been involved in, have no experience? I just don't understand where you are coming from with that statement. It makes no sense.

Again, you are just spewing things that you have heard, with no real basis, and spreading misinformation about one of the best candidates for President that we have had in a long time.

I actually do read between the lines. I've separated fact from fiction. When I read about the candidates, I can determine, for myself, when the article is giving real information, or if they are just slanted against/towards a certain candidate. There are many lies out there about each candidate. However, I am smart enough to weed through them, and get to the facts. I've looked at the facts, and I'm sticking with my choice.

You can continue to try persuade me to change my vote, but, it isn't going to happen.

[castleinthesky]

Huckabee, Obama, Romney, and Edwards all also have very little experience.

Huckabee was a state governor for more than two terms. Before that, he spent more than a full term as lieutenant governor. Not sure how that can be fairly labeled as "little experience".

-Aaron

I personally view that as little experience. But I guess that little is a relevant term, and people have different opinions of how much little is.

[MadonnasManOne]

I'm very pleased watching the Presidential Debates, this evening. The Democratic Party stood very tall, and did a great job as a whole. Hillary Clinton really hit it home. Those who question her positions on a wide range of issues should have no doubt that she is sincere in her answers, has a very strong stance on those issues, and has the ability, the knowledge, and the experience to lead America. She also hit back at those critics who tend to forget that former President Clinton did make very positive changes while he was in office, particularly with the economy. I love when she said that these people must have amnesia. That was great! She's very aware that people are trying to use Bill's presidency against her, and she's not going to stand for it.

[Lazario]

This might be a waste of your time(s), but, I went to the YouTube and saw what I could dig up about Hillary Clinton and gay issues...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPZs3nCIjsE (3:01)
(Hillary and her Father's beliefs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOxguEQvasI (1:42)
(Hillary's mistake)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSPxGmePSiA (18:11)
(Hillary speaks to leadership of Human Rights Campaign)
(she starts really talking at 7:00!)


Now, that's what she said. She may very well change her mind later... One thing's for sure, though - she speaks a hell of a whole lot more intelligently than George W. Bush. There's no way she could be a worse President than he has been.

I think everyone should watch the Third video. Especially at 16:01!