Should A Guy Like You have been cut from Hunchback

[2099net]

There is a lot of interest in the missing "If I Never Knew You" song sequence in Pochontas (which hopefully you will be able to see for yourselves in the January Special Edition release).

However I would like to discuss a sequence that was kept in a film, even though I think the film would be better off without it! The A Guy Like You song in The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Considering the plight of Paris at the time, the song is totally inappropriate, and in my opinion adds nothing to the story - in fact it distracts from the story.

May I just state while I am indifferent to the song, I have nothing against the actual animation in the sequence, that is very imagnative (I think in some respects it's the modern "Elephant's on Parade").

[Prince Adam]

I don't necessarily think it should have been cut-it's a pretty decent song with half decent animation-and it's way better than its sequel counterpart (Fa-La-La-La Fallen in Love). But it's in a completely inappropriate part of the story. It should have been somewhere towards the beginning. Maybe Quasi should have seen Esmeralda dancing in the square before the festival, and he thinks he could never win her over. Then they sing the song, he decides to go to the festival, then Frollo marches in...
Its current place in the story is completely "out of place", and it distracts from the seriousness of what's happening-Frollo is burning Paris to the ground just to get Esmeralda for himself.
But this is the wrong place to discuss Frollo's lust for Esmeralda...

[2099net]

I understand the argument for moving it to another point in the story (which is why I included the option in the poll) and I can understand and accept that as an option.

However I personally think that given the story as a whole, it's somewhat inappropriate for the film full-stop (at least with the current animation - perhaps if animated differently it would work earlier in the film).

Again I must stress that taken out of context, I enjoy the sequence enormously.

[Chernabog]

That sequence is the only part of the Hunchback... that I dislike.
I think it should have been left out!

[Disneykid]

I agree with 2099 in that outside the body of the film, A Guy Like You is a pretty decent number with some clever gags throughout, but in the body of Hunchback it just doesn't work. To be honest, I think the gargoyles should've been cut altogether and replaced with solitary ones that didn't speak, but Quasi spoke to, anyway. Not only would this be true to the novel, but it also makes Quasi look more pathetic and gets pity from the audience that he'd make friends with gargoyles that weren't even alive. Of course, Disney was too frightened to make this an adult animated film, so they felt the need to add the gargoyles for the kiddies.

[Prince Phillip]

I did not vote as the option to express my views on the matter was not included, therefore I will answer, and explain my reasons.

NO! the song should not have been cut. I am the first one to say all the Bull$#!T they put into films, for their kiddie audience is unneccessary, but in this case it was very necessary. I believe the Hunchback is a great story and could have been even more true to the story, but let's face it. This is America where everyone has to attack something, be over protective of their children, and is always trying to prove they've been wronged in some way.

Enogh people were against this movie from the start, as "this story should have never been adapted as a children's film". While to a more mature audience, the silly song may seem out of place and inappropriate, to others, it would seem the perfect place for a silly song. It draws attention away from everything dark that's happening for a brief time. It gives the kiddies a moment of sillyness, and appeases the parents who thinkl the movie is becoming to sinister. (While these are not my personal beliefs, I think they should be taken into consideration.)

As for the Gargoyles, I think they are a wonderful and clever move by disney, because let's face it, we will probably always have those goofy sidekicks, but these, just as in BATB, IMHO, work! Noone else, save the goat, ever sees the Gargoyles come to life, so who's to say, they aren't Quasi's imagination. They add humor, while not being out of place, and I believe were apart of the original book. (As figmants of his imagination, but again, maybe they were in the movie as well.)

Any way, I have gone on enough so. I'm off...

[MickeyMouseboy]

i voted yes!

[Prince Phillip]

I think if they were going to do a SE of this movie for the adult/adolenscent/more mature audience, which might intail some revisionist film making, I would say cut the song, but I understand why they would keep this and cut "if I never knew you", one word - Kiddies.

[2099net]

I was thinking of having another poll on the Gargoyles later but I'll address this now:

Noone else, save the goat, ever sees the Gargoyles come to life, so who's to say, they aren't Quasi's imagination. They add humor, while not being out of place, and I believe were apart of the original book. (As figmants of his imagination, but again, maybe they were in the movie as well.)

I must admit, I've personally never read the novel. But I have been informed independently by two people that there are a couple/few passages where Quasi talks to stone gargoyles and imagines them talking back to him. So as Prince Phillip says - there is a reason the gargoyles are included (I can't see Disney adding the gargoyles for the sake of it - soft plush gargoyles and gargoyle toys would be hard to sell. If Disney was just going for the child audience then I'm sure they would have picked a family of mice or something for Quazi to communicate to).

However, I do not agree that in the film the Gargoyles are presented as a figment of Quasi's imagination. The final battle clearly shows the Gargoyles defending the Cathedral, while the story also hints that other carvings on the building are alive (from the eyes of the saint opening just before Frollo hands over baby Quazi to the gargoyle snarling before breaking off and letting Frollo fall to his doom).

Upon repeated viewing, I've found that I don't mind the gargoyles. Ideally I would have preferred their appearances to be more ambiguous, but I do think that they work for the bulk of the movie.

(Of course, as Phillip points out, real or imaginary only Quazi sees the gargoyles move. A good rule. The 'looks cheap but I refuse to call it a cheapquel' breaks this rule )

[Prince Adam]

[quote="Disneykid"]To be honest, I think the gargoyles should've been cut altogether and replaced with solitary ones that didn't speak, but Quasi spoke to, anyway. Not only would this be true to the novel, but it also makes Quasi look more pathetic and gets pity from the audience that he'd make friends with gargoyles that weren't even alive. .[/quote]

But we don't want Quasi to look pathetic!!!!! Disney doesn't want us to pity him, they want us to love him and accept him for what he is! We shouldn't love him because we feel sorry for him, it should be because he's a good person who is trying to do the right thing although all odds stand against him.

[indianajdp]

... I still have never seen this movie ...

It just has never looked all that appealing to me before.
Is it a movie my 2 1/2 year-old daughter would enjoy?

[2099net]

... I still have never seen this movie ...

It just has never looked all that appealing to me before.
Is it a movie my 2 1/2 year-old daughter would enjoy?

I don't think it is suitable for a young child. Other people's opinions may vary but the film does show quite a lot of cruelty to Quazimodo, plus the apparent death of a character which may be upsetting to the very young.

[Disneykid]

But we don't want Quasi to look pathetic!!!!! Disney doesn't want us to pity him, they want us to love him and accept him for what he is! We shouldn't love him because we feel sorry for him, it should be because he's a good person who is trying to do the right thing although all odds stand against him.

Yes, that's true, but you gotta admit there are quite a few scenes in the movie where you know they're there so we feel sorry for him...and they work. I think having Quasi talk to inanimate gargoyles is very effective and brings even more drama, for lack of a better word, to the story because it makes it feel so realistic as opposed to having the gargoyles respond back.

Oh, and I don't think the gargoyles are Quasi's imagination in the film. Why? Because everytime they turn back to normal gargoyles, they're always in a different position than before. You don't mean to tell me that Quasi's imagination is SO vivid that he can not only cause the gargoyles to move about the cathedral using telepathy, but can also cause them to fight back when Notre Dame is being seized by the guards? Wow, if only Quasi could've used that form of telepathy on Frollo and the villagers...

[Matty-Mouse]

I like the "A Guy Like You" section. The song is quite catchy and also you have such high hopes that Quasi might get with Esm to have within a few minutes that hope smashed when she kisses Phebus. I felt so sorry for Quasi at that point when I first saw this movie (In the Cinema's back in 96) and still get a bit teary when he rips up that card with a heart on. I think after he realise's she doesn't love him it helps the movie move on to another point and that is his friendship for Esm.

[jesus_brer]

yes, yes ,yes

[Eeyore]

I love the the song myself. Moving it to another part of the film would completely drain the song of it's laughs.

"Paris, the City of Lovers is glowing this evening. True, that's because it's on fire..." just doesn't fit much place else.

How can you not love a song that rhymes "Adonis" and "croissant is"?

[BelleGirl]

I really HATE the anachronistic gags in the AGLY song! They are spoiling the medieval atmosphere. Totally out of place. Totally unfunny! I cringe at seeing this. I always skip this part when watching HOND!
It's already bad enough that these guys have to be so obnoxious, do they have to sing this stupid song as well?

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Perhaps it would have been better if it was earlier on around the same time as the Festivel of Fools song since that one was also "bouncy" and upbeat. Of course one way it could have worked where it was is if it was slower, more like "Out There" as far as tone and pace. Perhaps if it was reworded and changed so that Quasi sang it with the gargoyles as backup? Yes I realize thats a bit of a stretch on the last idea.

However one thing I want to point out is something 2099net said earlier about the hints at other carvings being alive. I think the gargoyle at the end with Frollo was more of a result of his paranoia and he may have hallucinated that one, I mean take a look at his song Hellfire, it just doesnt seem like a hint that the gargoyle may have also been alive to me, but more of a result of Frollo's insanity. As for the one in the beginning, it's possible, of course that also could have been a result of his guilt and again hallucinated it.

Ok enough of the long stretches, thats my two cents on everything take it or leave it, although if you took it you would be two cents richer

[Sotiris]

I believe not only that song should have been cut but every scene with the gargoyles too! Disney decided to make a more serious-themed/mature-oriented movie which i find very good but also tried to appeal to a younger audience with the gargoyls as a comic relief. That doesn't work! Could you imagined if Pocahontas (disney other serious film) had comic scenes like that? That is one reason why it failed at the box office. People did not know whether it was child or adult oriented? You can't have sequences like "hellfire" and "a guy like you" in the same movie, it just dosn't work...

from wikipedia:

"On the other hand, critics such as Marjorie Baumgarten of the Austin Chronicle were less kind, writing that the film "ultimately misses its target, as it's more likely to find acceptance with an older-than-average Disney crowd."The film's violence and thematic elements were a particular criticism of such critics, arguing that the film was far less kid-friendly than past Disney features. Some even compared the opening scene in this film to the opening scene in Tim Burton's Batman Returns (Quasimodo and The Penguin being both physically deformed). Incidentally, Batman Returns received almost exactly the same reviews and critical reception as Notre Dame"

[Prudence]

... I still have never seen this movie ...

It just has never looked all that appealing to me before.
Is it a movie my 2 1/2 year-old daughter would enjoy?

I don't think it is suitable for a young child. Other people's opinions may vary but the film does show quite a lot of cruelty to Quazimodo, plus the apparent death of a character which may be upsetting to the very young.

I saw it at 6-years-old, and loved it. Still, there's a huge difference between the ages of 6 and 2.