Disney supports 3 layer HD DVD format

[Marky_198]

I've just read this.

Disney supports new 3 layer HD DVD format.

While Disney supported Blu Ray in the first place, it looks like they're turning to the new 3 layer HD dvd now. This is remarkable, as members of the Blu Ray association usually stay away from the official meetings.
It looks like they see a future in the format.
Tha capacity of the discs will be 51 GB just like the Blu ray discs,
and the image quality is better, they said.

Does anyone know if those HD DVD's can be played on your normal dvd player?

[Marky_198]

The hd-dvd-format was supported by: New Line Cinema, Paramount Pictures, Universal Pictures en Warner Bros;

The Blu Ray format was supported by: Sony Pictures, Walt Disney, Warner Bros en Twentieth Century Fox.

Walt Disney turned to the other party now.

Also, Microsoft payed 150 million dollars to Paramount to turn it's back on Blu ray. Probably more will follow.

[2099net]

HD DVDs do not play in normal DVD players. However as part of the triple layer specification is "twin disc" which allow one or two of the layers to be DVD layers, which will play on normal DVDs (but only Standard Definition content naturally). There are already some "twin disc" out using just two layers - 1 15GB HD DVD layer and 1 5GB DVD layer. See

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/789/freedomvol1.html
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1058/freedomvol2.html

for more information. Note: Twin Disc is a different technology than the commonly seen "combo" HD DVD discs.

Microsoft did not pay Paramount $150m, Toshiba did. And its likely most of the money was not included in the transaction but will be used in contra services (disc replication, co-branded adverts etc).

Given that Disney is co-funding an aggressive shopping mall publicity tour (with Panasonic I believe), organising and administrating the "5 free movies when you buy a BD Player" promotion and is agressively pushing BDJava on its Blu-ray releases (as well as being perhaps the second most prolific studio releasing Blu-ray discs after Sony itself) I don't think too much can be read into Disney voting to approve the TL-51 spec.

Did you know Disney co-developed HDi with Microsoft, but now (unless they go neutral) never ever use it?

There is no indication what-so-ever Disney is even thinking about going neutral in the High Def format "war".

[TM2-Megatron]

I've just read this.and the image quality is better, they said.

How does that work... are the discs magic? Blu-Ray and HD-DVD use the same video codecs, either H.264, VC-1 or MPEG-2 (this latter one not terribly often, fortunately). Assuming a Blu-Ray and HD-DVD release of the same movie use the same source material and the same codec, their image quality should be pretty equal.

The real factors which influence image quality on these optical formats has very little to do with the medium. It's the care and effort put into the transfer, the condition of the original source material, etc. All this "we have better image quality" BS, whether it's from the Blu-Ray Alliance or DVD Forum is just stupid marketing hype.

Besides, will these triple-layer discs even work on all the existing players? They couldn't have been part of the spec when first generation HD-DVD players were manufactured. If you ask me, supporting this would be a stupid move on Disney's (or anyone elses) part... they chose a format; they should stick with it. Sure, they chose the least consumer-friendly of the two, but there's no use crying about it now. The 30GB available on a regular dual-layer HD-DVD is easily sufficient for a movie in HD. These new 51GB discs with their questionable compatibility are nothing more than a gimmick. I very much doubt this variant will be made use of in the home video market.

[2099net]

Besides, will these triple-layer discs even work on all the existing players? They couldn't have been part of the spec when first generation HD-DVD players were manufactured. If you ask me, supporting this would be a stupid move on Disney's (or anyone elses) part... they chose a format; they should stick with it. Sure, they chose the least consumer-friendly of the two, but there's no use crying about it now. The 30GB available on a regular dual-layer HD-DVD is easily sufficient for a movie in HD. These new 51GB discs with their questionable compatibility are nothing more than a gimmick. I very much doubt this variant will be made use of in the home video market.

The HD DVD spec has always had triple-layers written in, but originally I think they were just to be used on 3 layered "twin disc" format. But they couldn't actually make discs with 3 layers. As I understand it, the problem wasn't the drives, but the disc manufacturing process - it wasn't cheap or reliable enough.

So to make a long story short - we don't yet know if Triple-layered discs will work on all existing players, but they should work on most. Again as I understand it, if they fail the testing stage, they won't actually be ratified by the DVD Forum. There is a possibility certain models will not be compatible though.

[KubrickFan]

There is also some talk about a 100GB Blu-Ray disc, so is Disney gonna back that one up too?

[Widdi]

This is exactly why I'm staying as far away from HD/Blu Ray as possible. The war is far from ever and anybody who thinks otherwise is nutso. Consumers supporting and investing money in either format at this point is just stupid. Why throw hundreds of dollars away on a player and discs that may be completely obsolete in a year or two? It's just bad spending.

[deathie mouse]

Hah. The FUD spreads far. It's amazing

Disney supports new 3 layer HD DVD format.

While Disney supported Blu Ray in the first place, it looks like they're turning to the new 3 layer HD dvd now. This is remarkable, as members of the Blu Ray association usually stay away from the official meetings.
It looks like they see a future in the format.
Tha capacity of the discs will be 51 GB just like the Blu ray discs,
and the image quality is better, they said.

Disney is a member of the DVD Forum and as a member they get to vote, and as a member they voted for it. While that quote makes it look like they're abandoning Blu-ray (a format that's selling nearing 3:1 against HD DVD in the US and 8:1 in the rest of the planet) for an untested triple layer HD DVD that was just being asked to be approved to get the go ahead.

The storage capacity of the future TL HD DVD may be the same as the current DL BD, but HD DVD's 30 Megabits per second video+audio bandwidth remains the same compared to the BD's 48 Megabit per second video+audio bandwidth. (DVDs are 10 Megabits per second). So the TL HDVD image quality will NOT be better than BD, as its total bandwidth still remains 60% less than BD, so it's less.

The hd-dvd-format was supported by: New Line Cinema, Paramount Pictures, Universal Pictures en Warner Bros;

The Blu Ray format was supported by: Sony Pictures, Walt Disney, Warner Bros en Twentieth Century Fox.

Walt Disney turned to the other party now.

Also, Microsoft payed 150 million dollars to Paramount to turn it's back on Blu ray. Probably more will follow.

o/~ Keep spreading the FUD, HD DVD HD DVD ~\o

Blu-ray is supported by Disney, Lionsgate, MGM, Sony/Columbia/Tri-Star, Starz/Anchor Bay, and 20th Century Fox.

New Line/Warner are neutral and they release on both formats. New Line just released Hairspray last week on Blu-ray first.

HD DVD is supported by Universal, and now Paramount/DreamWorks after the payoff. More than 75% of the Paramount/Dreamwork High Definition titles were released on Blu-ray. Their Spielberg titles have to be released on Blu-ray too.

There is also some talk about a 100GB Blu-Ray disc, so is Disney gonna back that one up too?

As part of the BDA and a staunch Blu-ray supporter of course they will.



It's been since forever that HD DVD supporters have been saying Disney is going to become HD DVD any day now.
Pirates Of The Caribbean 3 is released on Blu-ray Disc next Tuesday.

[Barbossa]

As a cartoon character once said after robbing a house, "Oh no, Beta!"

[Marky_198]

Can normal dvd's be played on a Blu-Ray player?

[2099net]

yes

[Spottedfeather]

Blu-Ray is the far superior format. Why else would it be selling far, far better than HD-DVD ? Better picture, better....everything.

[TM2-Megatron]

Blu-Ray is the far superior format. Why else would it be selling far, far better than HD-DVD ? Better picture, better....everything.

Not to forget region coding, mandatory AACS (meaning you'd better not hold your breath on any independant films making it to the format), additional DRM in the form of BD+ and the BD-ROM mark, and non-mandatory implementation of Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD audio codecs.

Of course, the maximum audio/video bitrates of Blu-Ray are higher, theoretically allowing for a moderately better picture. However, I doubt the majority of mediocre HDTVs (meaning 1366x768 models) sold to date would take advantage of it to any great affect.

Why would it be selling better, though? Perhaps due to the fact that the masses rarely exhibit good taste, or do what's best for them? If so many people don't even bother voting for the leader of their country (and the majority of those who do often choose so poorly, lol), do you honestly think most people know anything about either HD format (a relatively unimportant issue compared to world politics) in any great detail? That they really bother learning anything at all about HD before going out and spending as much as they can afford so they can brag to their friends? I'd imagine not.

I'll give Blu-Ray this, though... I do hope it sticks around so there's a format to replace writable DVDs for computer burning. Unless the DVD Forum gets their act together and produces some working burners for HD-DVD, of course. However, Blu-Ray did have the upper hand in this due to the fact the format was first conceived of as a writable medium, and then converted for use as a home video format later on.

[Pluto Region1]

For those of us non-tech-oriented interested forum members, can someone decode what you guys are saying Disney is doing? Disney was or is supporting Blue-Ray and so if they support this new format, what does that mean? Does it mean they are supporting a third format or? Also, why would they do this? What do you guys think is behind their decision to go with the new format? Have they announced they are no longer supporting Blue Ray?

We need a plain English explanation for those of us who want to know but jus don't understand all this techno-babble.

[Ugly Pig]

For those of us non-tech-oriented interested forum members, can someone decode what you guys are saying Disney is doing?

If I understand things correctly, they're doing exactly nothing that's of any concern to us. What they're "supporting" is a decision regarding some new specs on the already existing HD-DVD format. Their exclusive support of Blu-Ray remains unchanged.

[DarthPrime]

For those of us non-tech-oriented interested forum members, can someone decode what you guys are saying Disney is doing? Disney was or is supporting Blue-Ray and so if they support this new format, what does that mean? Does it mean they are supporting a third format or? Also, why would they do this? What do you guys think is behind their decision to go with the new format? Have they announced they are no longer supporting Blue Ray?

We need a plain English explanation for those of us who want to know but jus don't understand all this techno-babble.

Its not a new format. Its just a triple layer HD DVD disc. They are a member of the DVD Forum and voted for the new disc. The new disc will give HD DVDs up to 51GB per disc. More disc space means better video and audio for HD DVD users. I really don't see them releasing this disc unless it works on all HD DVD players. I guess firmware updates will address these issues when/if these discs are released.

Disney remains Blu-ray exclusive, but I could see them going format neutral (HD DVD and Blu-ray) if the new discs help HD DVD in sales, etc... That said rumors have been going around for over a year that Disney would also support HD DVD so who knows.

[Billy Moon]

This is exactly why I'm staying as far away from HD/Blu Ray as possible.

So you don't think standard resolution picture quality is better, after all? Didn't think so.

[2099net]

The whole "obsolete" argument doesn't really wash. Blu-ray will never be obsolete because its supported by the PS3. They will make Blu-ray discs for at least another 10 years. And even if Blu-ray does end up like the UMD (which Blu-supporters I'm not even suggesting it will) just like Sony supports UMD with its films, Sony will support Blu-ray. So you're guarenteed the next James Bond film[s], Spider-Man film[s] etc.

As for HD DVD, which had more chance of becoming "obsolete", you effectively get a player for free now. Buy a player and you get so many free movies, the price is effectively cancelled out.

Both formats have films unique to their format which are worth owning. On this forum Blu-ray obviously has the advantage as it has Disney as a supporter. HD DVD, mainly via Universal with help from Warner Bros. have released more older "classic" films for people who prefer older films to today's. (But Blu-ray studios are now increasingly digging into their back catalogue for releases so may catch up on classic releases in 2008).

Anyone who does have a HDTV and has a reasonable amount of money to spend, but would rather sit out the HighDefMedia "War" and continue to spend that same money on normal DVDs is a fool, in my opinion.

"Wars" aren't won by the timid! Pick a side (or both even) and get stuck in! You may be a victor or you may be a looser. But even if you loose, the discs on your chosen format aren't suddenly going to stop playing.

[Widdi]

This is exactly why I'm staying as far away from HD/Blu Ray as possible.

So you don't think standard resolution picture quality is better, after all? Didn't think so.

For animated movies created in 2-D, yes I do, based on the HD stills we have seen which looked terrible to me.

In terms of live action films HD picture is slightly better (though still not by the leaps and bounds it's made up to be). But I'm not going to invest in a HD format discs or players yet because of the on going format war, and if I'm lucky, I won't have to at all because standard DVD will (continue) to crush HD formats in the market and they will disappear altogether, or remain a novelty item for people actually interested in them.

[deathie mouse]

TM2-Megatron, you sound like the HD DVD forum. Have you turned to the Darkred side?

"mandatory DD+ and DTHD" indeed. Blu-ray has uncompressed lossless high-bit Linear PCM, why would "mandatory" lossy DD+ and compressed DTHD be an advantage. They can be included as options on a disc too.

So, if many people have "mediocre" 720p TVs, movies shouldn't be made available in a format that's more than twice better?
Full 1080p monitors start at $600 msrp, hey I have a friend that just bought a 1080p 55" SXRD for $1500 a month ago. Prices will keep falling down.

Region coding and AACS make studios feel confident in protecting their revenue so they release more. That's one good reason Disney, MGM and Fox are Blu-ray only, and there are already independent releases on Blu-ray

etc.

So you don't think standard resolution picture quality is better, after all? Didn't think so.

For animated movies created in 2-D, yes I do, based on the HD stills we have seen which looked terrible to me.

In terms of live action films HD picture is slightly better (though still not by the leaps and bounds it's made up to be). But I'm not going to invest in a HD format discs or players yet because of the on going format war, and if I'm lucky, I won't have to at all because standard DVD will (continue) to crush HD formats in the market and they will disappear altogether, or remain a novelty item for people actually interested in them.

I don't know what are you looking at, but I can project the best Blu-rays into theater size screens and they look excellent.

Only a year after the PS3 introduction the DVD "crushing" is starting to shrink and High Definition is 4% of sales, even with a format "war" going on.

See how long it took for DVDs (it was years) before VHSers stopped saying VHS sales were "crushing" DVD. Those that don't learn from history..

And this animation in 2-D don't look good on HD claim is ridiculous. Anyone that has seen the original art/cels knows it looks much better than DVD, and animated 35mm film looks much better than DVD.

*drags old examples of HD 2-D images he has around in this site

http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/20 ... .xl/02.jpg

http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/20 ... .ws/01.jpg

http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/20 ... .ws/12.jpg

and these aren't full 1080p

For those of us non-tech-oriented interested forum members, can someone decode what you guys are saying Disney is doing?

My dear Pluta , Disney is releasing in Blu-ray, is fully commited to Blu-ray, sees the future in Blu-ray (maybe even 3-D Blu-rays!), and it's one of the formats staunchiest supporters (Have you seen the Disney Blu-ray tour?). Latest news is Disney is addings support for D-Box (a signal that sends motion/vibration to your seat like on its attraction rides) on Blu-rays

now excuse me while I go to the mall to buy Pirates 3 so I can see the Pirates Trilogy tonight looking and sounding better than my theaters (theater sound is compressed lossy DD, not uncompressed lossless high resolution LPCM) made directly from the 2K x 1080p Digital Intermediate

next week Lost (1080p vs 720p broadcasts) and High School Musical!


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