Disney's Dark Age

[Prince Phillip]

It is obvious to me that Disney is entering a dark age, but this might be good. Every so often a dark age is needed. And from them come the great Rennaissances. I don’t mean to come of mean or whatever, but it seems a lot of people are over critiquel, including myself at times, and then flip flop, and like I said I’m no exception. I know one thing, that if I was running Disney a lot of things would be different, but I’m not and they are running it this way, so I am just going to go with it for now, and count on things improving next decade… or maybe I should just say in the future. Eventually this whole CGI craze will wear off and Disney will return to its roots. And oh, one more thing, for those of you who said Shrek and the Pixar movies weren’t great because of the CGI, think again. While audiences may have liked the story and the ADULT humor of the movies, it was the computer graphics that initially pulled them in. I think Disney should go into hibernation for a while until the computer craze wears off, and just do their Pixar films for a while. I think that they are fighting a losing battle with critics and therefore the majority public.

I don’t know I’m tired, all I know is that I still enjoy many of their classics and as long as I have them to watch for years to come and can enjoy them with my future children, I will be happy. Peace out.

P.S. If you are going to resond to something I say, make sure you read the whole post to get a full understanding of what I am trying to say. Often times people respond to my posts and I don’t think they read the whole thing. Also I do not direct my responses to people say unless I mention their name.

[Jack]

Yeah I agree. Hopefully, there's going to be a rennaissance as a fresh as The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. But I honestly wonder if Disney can pull that type of magic again.

IMO, their company is doomed to a downward spiral unless they get some better management and better focus on the important parts of the company.

[Maerj]

In reading about the history of Disney, most notably in "The Disney Films" by Leonard Maltin, you can see throughout their history there have always been times when critics or even the public have proclaimed that they 'lost the magic.' Then a year or two later... BAM! A Disney movie arrives that everyone loves and they proclaim that the magic is back.

The truth is that it never left. Sometimes they do films that just don't hit with the general public. Look at 'Treasure Planet.' It was a terrific movie that maybe just came out at the wrong time or had a bad marketing campaign. It didn't make the money they wanted it to, but that doesn't make it a bad film. Last year's 'Lilo & Stitch' did very well at the box office and movies like 'Brother Bear' and 'Pirates of the Carribean' look VERY promising. If that is what you mean by being in the Dark Ages, well I hope it lasts for a long time!

[Jake Lipson]

Hopefully, there's going to be a rennaissance as a fresh as The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. But I honestly wonder if Disney can pull that type of magic again..

Um, did you even see Lilo & Stitch?

[Prince Phillip]

Look at 'Treasure Planet.' It was a terrific movie that maybe just came out at the wrong time or had a bad marketing campaign. It didn't make the money they wanted it to, but that doesn't make it a bad film. Last year's 'Lilo & Stitch' did very well at the box office

Treasure Planet in my opion was great as you said and so was Lilo and Stitch. Lilo and Stitch may have done good but Treasure Planet. The Dark Age doesn't mean that nothing good comes out, but often in Dark Ages good ideas are not generally accepted by the public, ie Treasure Planet. Also I think they are headed or in the beggining of this potential Dark Age. I think good or not their animated movies aren't doing as well as they could be. I did not really care for Atlantis and am sorry to say I'm not looking forward to Brother Bear. Also we have heard that they want to aim for the 4 to 10 year old target audience. One might argue that the first "Dark Age of disney or what ever wasn't a dark age, but rather a period where they targeted their movies to that younger audience. I don't know. I don't mean to come off too harsh.

[Jack]

Hopefully, there's going to be a rennaissance as a fresh as The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. But I honestly wonder if Disney can pull that type of magic again..

Um, did you even see Lilo & Stitch?

Yeah, and I thought it was O.K. IMO, it wasn't nearly as great as the likes of Lion King, Little Mermaid, or any of those. I thought that generally, it was a rip off of E.T. - generally the same scenario, generally the same story.

I take it that you like the film from your comment. That's fine, but I profusely disagree with you.

[Choco Bear]

I think Disney should go into hibernation for a while until the computer craze wears off, and just do their Pixar films for a while

umm its not disney choice if they want to do the pixar movies its pixars dessicion if they wanna make the movies for them, i dont think they should go in hibernation cuz they would be turning there backs on the company and legacy walt disney created basically although they might be in a so called dark ages they shouldnt turn away beacuse the animation is essentially is what people remeber about walt disney , it may be differnt for others but basically when i think or hear about walt disney its the animation that comes to mind(mainly mickey mouse ) . im not tryin to be a pooper on ur opinion im jus giving my opinion

[Maerj]

Um, did you even see Lilo & Stitch?

Yeah, and I thought it was O.K. IMO, it wasn't nearly as great as the likes of Lion King, Little Mermaid, or any of those. I thought that generally, it was a rip off of E.T. - generally the same scenario, generally the same story.

I take it that you like the film from your comment. That's fine, but I profusely disagree with you.

Well, you can disagree with him all you want, that doesn't change the fact that it was a financial success for Disney and MANY people loved that film. Also, not every movie they do is going to be a big epic like the Lion King. You can't expect them to do that! Not even Pixar can... Finding Nemo was a good movie, but it certainly wouldn't be considered a giant epic.

[Jack]

Yeah, and I thought it was O.K. IMO, it wasn't nearly as great as the likes of Lion King, Little Mermaid, or any of those. I thought that generally, it was a rip off of E.T. - generally the same scenario, generally the same story.

I take it that you like the film from your comment. That's fine, but I profusely disagree with you.

Well, you can disagree with him all you want, that doesn't change the fact that it was a financial success for Disney and MANY people loved that film. Also, not every movie they do is going to be a big epic like the Lion King. You can't expect them to do that! Not even Pixar can... Finding Nemo was a good movie, but it certainly wouldn't be considered a giant epic.

I agree with what you're saying, but I just meant that L&S didn't bring back the magic IMO. Yes, many people liked it, but all who do (that I know), agree that it doesn't come close to what Disney used to be capable of.

It was entertaining and all, but I didn't think it was a significant improvement over recent Disney films, comparable to Little Mermaid's significant improvement over the likes of Black Couldron.

[Maerj]

Well, you can disagree with him all you want, that doesn't change the fact that it was a financial success for Disney and MANY people loved that film. Also, not every movie they do is going to be a big epic like the Lion King. You can't expect them to do that! Not even Pixar can... Finding Nemo was a good movie, but it certainly wouldn't be considered a giant epic.

I agree with what you're saying, but I just meant that L&S didn't bring back the magic IMO. Yes, many people liked it, but all who do (that I know), agree that it doesn't come close to what Disney used to be capable of.

It was entertaining and all, but I didn't think it was a significant improvement over recent Disney films, comparable to Little Mermaid's significant improvement over the likes of Black Couldron.

Well, maybe they weren't making the film with the plans of making an improvement over whatever. Maybe some guy just wanted to tell a simple story about an evil space creature that befriends a lil Hawaiian girl. And if we are going to sit here and argue about what films "have the magic" and which ones don't, this is really going to deteriorate into stupidity, since "the magic" is an intangible and indescribable quality, which obviously differs for each person and each movie.

[Jack]

Well, maybe they weren't making the film with the plans of making an improvement over whatever. Maybe some guy just wanted to tell a simple story about an evil space creature that befriends a lil Hawaiian . And if we are going to sit here and argue about what films "have the magic" and which ones don't, this is really going to deteriorate into stupidity, since "the magic" is an intangible and indescribable quality, which obviously differs for each person and each movie.

Yup. All I know is that there are still plenty of people out there who think Disney has lost its touch.

[Maerj]

Well, maybe they weren't making the film with the plans of making an improvement over whatever. Maybe some guy just wanted to tell a simple story about an evil space creature that befriends a lil Hawaiian . And if we are going to sit here and argue about what films "have the magic" and which ones don't, this is really going to deteriorate into stupidity, since "the magic" is an intangible and indescribable quality, which obviously differs for each person and each movie.

Yup. All I know is that there are still plenty of people out there who think Disney has lost its touch.

Well, I hope that you and all the rest of those people continue to be happy being critical and negative. The rest of us will continue to enjoy our hobby.

[2099net]

Firstly, I don't think anyone on this forum has criticised the Pixar films because they are CGI. I'm not against CGI - but I am 100% against CGI for the sake of CGI. Pixar have, in my opinion, crafted stories and films that benefit from being produced in CGI. It's another reason I like Pixar - they put such thought into every aspect of their films.

But I'll quite happily hold my hand up now and say I didn't like "Shrek" - but I wouldn't have liked it if was hand drawn. I think it is a shallow, empty film filled with crude humour and pop-culture references that will make the film age rapidly (Another film with Smash Mouth's "All-Star" in the soundtrack - please. Another film with a crappy Matrix parody - please. Is this really the best they could do?)

But I do strongly feel it is wrong for Disney to jump onto the CGI "bandwagon" – especially when so many other studios are doing so. What will be unique about Disney's CGI amid the slew of other films from PDI/Dreamworks, Sony Imageworks and Lusasfilm? Plus as technology improves, the line between CGI and "live action" is getting thinner and thinner all the time? When big budget action movies with high CGI content like the new "Star Wars" films become more and more frequent, will an all CGI movie attract people's attention as much? Will an all CGI movie even be seen as something special?

Things are "Dark" at Disney, and I'm not talking about the perceived quality of their films – animators have been laid off, and it looks like the studio is going through a worse period than in the 1980's. While there was a threat of Feature Animation being closed in the 1980's, the threat encouraged the new generation of Disney artists and talent to produce some of the studio's greatest films. This time, such a threat seems only to be inspiring Disney to follow other studios, and to potentially loose the Disney "magic". Plus Disney seem to be hiring external teams and animation companies more and more - not a trend that pleases me.

It's early days yet, and some of their upcoming films could floor me (note, I'm not including "Brother Bear" or "Home on the Range" as Disney's upcoming films, as they were greenlighted years ago before the new management change).

Time, as always, will tell us how Disney's future pans out – but I hope Disney doesn't simply follow the crowd simply because CGI films are "hot", I hope each animated film they make from now on has a compelling reason or appropriate visual stylings to be CGI (or indeed hand drawn).

[Prince Phillip]

2099net, that was not what I was saying. People were saying that Pixar ect. succeeded, because of story not CGI,but I'm saying CGI had a big part to do with their success.

Now that another thread about this has sprung up, I decided to bring life back to this one. I think there are enough opinions and such, that we can use both of these.

As I said before, the Dark Age doesn't mean that everything that comes out is bad, or that Disney is in a financial slumper, although I think they are headed in that direction. Disney is still popping out some good movies. Some movies are not so good. Yeah a lot of people thought Emporer's New Groove was funny, but it is also a story disney could have passed up, in place of a better one.
I personally believe we are kind of in one. Maybe not all the way but definately in the shallow end and heading for the deep end, and here are my reasons:

-Mass production of these sequels of theirs. (whether you like them or nor, or are indifferent to them, they are definately not a good sign, and probably are doing damage whether it is visible or not.)
-The complete abandoning of traditional animation. (while I don't think it is permanet, it is not a good sign) The Dark Age doesn't just reflect on the quality of the movies, but how the company is being run.
-All of the layoffs (again not good.)
-Story ideas (Emporer's New Groove may have been funny, but was it a story with a lot of thought. Yeah I know, there were some touching moments in it, that I don't really remember, but oh well... Then, there's Sweating Bullets, their apparent last 2d movie. Well I'm sorry but even if the cartoon is cute or ewnjoyable to watch, the stroy sounds kind of stupid, but maybe I will be surprised.)
-Box Office numbers (Even if it is the greatest movie in the world, if the audience doesn't accept it, or it just doesn't make the numbers, it, in the bussiness world, is considered a failure.)
-No more animation (It is possible animation will be dumped all togther, whether it is CGI, or Traditional.)

The list could go on,but I am kind of tired. Anyway just ponder what I said. I believe this Dark Age, mainly falls on the shoulders of the execs and on the head of the Big man himself, Eisner...

[Maerj]

I believe the Dark Age is now upon us. Unemployment is at an all time high, people are being murdered in the streets around the world. New diseases are cropping up everywhere! And Disney's films haven't been making as much money as the Lion King did! Its all in the Book of Revelations, People! Read up and learn! Repent and maybe Disney's next film will have a story we all like with animation all people will appreciate!

[MickeyMouseboy]