MMBoy Lion King 1 1/2 DVD Review!

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Re: MMBoy Lion King 1 1.2 DVD Review!

Post by Prince Phillip »

MickeyMouseboy wrote:Hidden Mickey Hunt (Feature Lenght) - There's 3 icons you have to become familiar with.

Open Door - Means that a mickey is about to appear in the following scene so keep you eyes open and press enter when located

Mickey Head - you found it!

Closed Door - The hidden Mickey is off sight
I noticed several hidden Mickey heads, when I was watching the demo tape, it was kinda funny, I didn't know they were going to make a game out of it. That's kinda funny :lol:

Nice review MMB :up: though to be truthful, this doesn't sem like much of a 2 disc set... I think all that stuff could easily have fit on 1 disc, but oh well...
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Re: MMBoy Lion King 1 1.2 DVD Review!

Post by Grunches »

Prince Phillip wrote:
MickeyMouseboy wrote:Hidden Mickey Hunt (Feature Lenght) - There's 3 icons you have to become familiar with.

Open Door - Means that a mickey is about to appear in the following scene so keep you eyes open and press enter when located

Mickey Head - you found it!

Closed Door - The hidden Mickey is off sight
I noticed several hidden Mickey heads, when I was watching the demo tape, it was kinda funny, I didn't know they were going to make a game out of it. That's kinda funny :lol:

Nice review MMB :up: though to be truthful, this doesn't sem like much of a 2 disc set... I think all that stuff could easily have fit on 1 disc, but oh well...
They are probally just putting it on 2 disc to get people to buy it.
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Post by PatrickvD »

are there going to be any screen grabs of the Aladdin trailer up soon?? i cant wait im dieing to see :lol: :roll:
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Post by Paka »

Gee, MMb, sounds great. :roll:

I'm probably asking for trouble posting in a Hakuna Matata thread with my current avatar, but I'm gonna anyway. :P I'll go so far as to rent it, but nothing more. I vow to never have a cheapquel - Disney or otherwise - on dvd. I've already bought enough Disney cheapquels on VHS when I was younger - that was about six too many. *gak*
This all smells like "marketing ploy" to me. Dress up a cheapquel with a fancy treatment and nice packaging, and we'll surely move more units. Like others have already mentioned, the amount of content doesn't warrant a 2-disc treatment - they just made it a 2-disc set 'cause that's the "trend" in dvds, currently. You can net the collectors and nutty fans by giving it a seemingly fancy treatment. I'm usually a sucker for 2-disc sets - but this is clearly just a standard release in sheep's clothing. :|
And I'm annoyed that they used the slipcover style with this release, as well. Up until then, the fancy slipcovers were for Platinums and other proper and deserving 2-disc sets. Bleah. I suppose Simba's Pride will have the same, too. :headshake:

I also refuse to accept this as TLK canon. Just because Disney burped it out doesn't mean it's necessarily fitting to the original story. I also loathe Simba's Pride as any kind of viable canon - if the story's "logistics" made a lick of sense, I might consider otherwise, but as it is, the final product of SP has plot-holes you could drive a dump truck through. Oy...

So like I said, I'll rent it - I will watch any cheapquel once. Even seisure-inducing stuff like Cinderella/Hunchback II. If only to see how bad it really is. Maybe even give a chance to prove itself. :roll: But I won't let my admiration for The Lion King blind me to the fact that this is a cheapquel, and from everything I've seen thus far, it looks mediocre at best. Yes, it'll be cute to see little fan curiosities like an adolescent Simba, but whoop-dee-doo. That's not exactly a redeeming feature. :wink:

Oy, I'll probably get some heat for this, but oh well... :twisted:
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Post by Jack »

Speaking for myself, I'm not just being duped into buying TLK1.5 because its two-discs, and it has fancy packaging, although those are pluses.

I'm buying it because I like the idea of it - I think its creative, much more creative than the usual DTV fare. The animation is more quality than usual, and it you can tell those who made it put considerable effort into it from reading about the movie and the production notes.

I'm against the idea of putting out DTVs for a quick buck as much as anyone. But I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If I see a DTV that really appeals to me (so long as it's not a sequel to a Walt-era film), I'm going to get it. In my mind, if I feel a movie is good, and has some effort put into it, its worth a buy not just for my own enjoyment, but to also reward the hard work of those that produced it.
Last edited by Jack on Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jake Lipson »

I agree with everything Jack said.

I'd still buy TLK1.5 if it was a single-disc, relatively barebones DVD like the Beauty and the Beast sequels, with no slipcover. It's nice they're going the extra mile by making it that, so that it will more closely match the original movie's DVD release (and the upcoming SE of Simba's Pride), but I'm buying it because I love The Lion King and this sequel seems to have done it justice with a level of quality usually not seen in direct-to-video fare. It's got exellent animation quality up to or almost up to the level of the original feature. It's got a creative concept and it'll be really fun to see a new spin on a story I love so much I've memorized it. It's got a fully animated (if retooled) version of Warthog Rhabsody. And as usual it has all of the big players from the original cast back. But most of all there's a level of respect for the original movie that is unparalleled in direct-to-video sequel productions (save <i>maybe</i> Simba's Pride.) Plus, it just looks like an awful lot of fun.
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Post by 2099net »

Well, I'd disagree with you over this Jake.
But most of all there's a level of respect for the original movie that is unparalleled in direct-to-video sequel productions (save maybe Simba's Pride.)
Listern to the commentary on Scamp's Adventure. I also think Patch's London Adventure and Return to Neverland have shown respect.
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Post by Jens »

Paka, I respect your opinion but I do not agree with it. Ok, personal opinions are all diferent with each person but I don't like people that just go generalize things. If you have seen 1 disney movie and you think it "sucks", you shouldn't stop watching disney movies because most of them really are great. Same with Sequels (and I HATE the term Cheapquel). I agree that most of them were done with no respect for the first movie, but wait, there are a lot of great ones in there too imo. Scamp's Adventure, Patch in London, Return to Neverland, TLK 2, ... You vow to never buy a sequel, well that's not very smart my friend. Disney Toon Studios probably convinced the board to put more money in TLK 1 1/2 and they did. I think when a lot of people will buy this dvd they will get a message that if you put more money into it, the animators can do much more with it. TLK 1 1/2 is quality, don't just bash it when you haven't seen it yet.

And I hate your avatar :p
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Post by MickeyMouseboy »

Ok, kids be nice to Paka! :)
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Post by Jens »

I really didn't mean any harm with my message. I respect his opinion, but I also stated my opinion ;)
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Post by Paka »

Oy... talk about opening a can of worms... O_o

I mean, I knew what I was getting into when I posted initially, but damn!! Wasn't expecting fire and brimstone, exactly... :lol:

But no, I'm not saying I feel attacked. I think it's kinda funny that sequels are one of the most frequently-disputed topics on this board - and ya got parties firmly planted on both sides. Makes for good debate. ^_^

My biggest problem with cheapquels is the idea behind them, secondly the motive. The motive is not to enrich the Disney library with more quality stories - it's to take existing successful properties and formulas and spin them again to make a buck. You don't hear execs using the words film or story - they most often use vocab like product and franchise, as if movies are just another chicken sandwich.

Firstly, though - like I said, I'm not content with the ideas or concepts in the first place. Rehashes - which most cheapquels are - are uncreative and insubstantial. What is there to be gained from seeing the same story told again? Same thing with continuations or cute little "adventures" - it's entertaining and is somewhat unique from the original story - but was anything worthwhile pulled out of it in general?
Then you have the recent wave of "riffs" and comedic spoofs in animated films, and this is where Hakuna Matata falls. In my opinion, if there's one thing young kids don't pick up on, it's irony, or "wink-wink nudge-nudge" kind of humor. Sarcasm, tongue-in-cheek jokes - these all require a knowledge of the way things are normally, in order to pull a laugh out of the proposed joke. But since young kids barely have a grasp on the "ways of the world" yet in the first place, it flies right over their head. Irony is a very mature type of humor - and it can't be taught. It comes with experience and general gain of "norm" knowledge. Thus the "spoofing" format of HM isn't totally successful for its intended audience.

I do know that this intended audience has seen TLK about a million times, so they know how the scene plays "normally" - thus they can get a laugh out of how the scene is goofily different in HM. But they won't understand the tongue-in-cheek "retelling" of Timon's perspective. We as adults know it's purposely skewed, and thus don't take much of the stoy seriously, but many kids will take it to heart. Like the CoL sequence - reducing it all to one big fart joke (the animals aren't bowing - they fainted from Pumbaa's gas! Umm... haha?), is silly to us adults, but kids will take it into context, and believe that's what really happened at that moment in CoL. Thus (I'm using that damn word too much... O_o), kind of neutering the drama of the original moment.
The whole idea of goofing on what's supposed to be a semi-dramatic, serious film in the first place doesn't really sit right with me, either. Same thing with Gnomeo & Juliet - let's take the tragic romance of Romeo & Juliet (yet another rendition... oy...) with garden gnomes! And we'll put a hilarious light, comedic spin on the whole thing!! Dur... okay?

Well, let me give an example - what if a Bambi spinoff was made, only this time the story was retold from Thumper's perspective? Being that Thumper is the cheeky comic-relief type in that story, what kind of - ahem - hilarious spins could he give? How he had a hand in Bambi and Faline meeting? Or how he purposely taught Bambi to say "I'm stupid" instead of "I'm hungry"? Or - because he was teasing a dog at the campsite, the Men had to chase after them both, leaving the bonfire unattended? HIGH-larious.
My point is, a serious film can't really be made light of without quickly straying into inappropriate territory. Films that are already outrageous or self-important - like Titanic or Lord of the Rings - can be spoofed innocently, but I doubt you see spoofs of Schindler's List or The Shawshank Redemption all that often. Not that TLK is in the same league with those films, but the same kind of balance it has of dignity without pretension is hard to poke fun at without becoming too adult (which would be funny, but not kid-friendly) or too profane (which is safe and kid-friendly, but not funny for the rest of us).

Whoa - okay... gettin' a bit long here. Anywho - that's the chief reason I don't like this HM concept - it just doesn't fit for the intended audience. My beef is not whether the artists respect the original film, or whether the animation looks pretty, or whether it's given a fancy treatment on dvd - nor is it about whether Disney Toon Studios does good work or should exist. I don't blame the filmmakers for doing their jobs - to stretch ever penny they're given - I blame the management for putting these conceptual wastes into production in the first place. I wish that the Aussies were given something original to film, with a slightly more accomodating budget. There's nothing wrong with secondary production lines. Sure, it makes good business sense to make money by milking your past successes - but it sure compromises your artistic integrity. And considering where the company came from in the first place, it's especially tragic. I just wish Disney would treat their films less like "product" and more like art. These films aren't simply bought and forgotten. They make impressions on people - kids, especially. And when you're willing to make bad lasting impressions for the sake of money - well, that's sad. :(

Gawd - so sorry for getting all long-winded and preachy. Bleah. I know I've probably forgotten a few points I wanted to make or clarify - but oh, well. :)

Oh, and Jens - I'm a girl. I know I come off as a guy a lot - probably my writing style - but I be female. ^_^ I should probably start writing in pink text something - even Luke thought I was a guy. O_o
Last edited by Paka on Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jack »

I can completely understand your viewpoint. I agree that the motive for allowing DTV movies is wrong, and its improper to call a series of artistic works a 'franchise'.

However, even though Disney execs may start projects like these to cash in on the success of an original movie, the people that actually create the DTVs work very hard and in some instances have been highly creative with what they had to work with. In the case of TLK1.5, I think this is very true, and I feel the end result is going to be good.
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Post by Jens »

Exactly what I was going to reply Jack :)
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Post by Paka »

Uhh - it's like I just said, Jack. I'm not rippin' on the artists that produce the cheapquels. I too think they do very good work with the limited resources they're given. They're talented enough that they should be given an original project to work on sometime. It's the boneheads that commission these video babysitters in the first place that me no likey. ;)

I know, I know - railing against it won't change anything. But it helps to vent. :D


And, oh yeah -

Image Kittens and ponies and faeries and stuff... Image



:lol:
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Post by 2099net »

Paka wrote:Well, let me give an example - what if a Bambi spinoff was made, only this time the story was retold from Thumper's perspective? Being that Thumper is the cheeky comic-relief type in that story, what kind of - ahem - hilarious spins could he give?
Bambi on the ice:

Thumper: Ooooohhhhh! Your butt is heavy. Uh-ha-ha-ha. I said "butt"!
Uhh - it's like I just said, Jack. I'm not rippin' on the artists that produce the cheapquels. I too think they do very good work with the limited resources they're given. They're talented enough that they should be given an original project to work on sometime.
Given the state of Walt Disney Feature Animation, this may happen in the next 3-5 years! (Not that I think that will be a bad thing).

As for sequels. Yes most have been "disappointing" but some have decided to grab the bull by the horns and run with what they have been given. Patch's London Adventure showed respect for the original, but in my view wasn't quite there. But the sequels are getting better. Disney is spending more time and money on them. And I'll defend Disney's right to make a sequel, as many of the greatest works of literature are "sequels"; some to stories which apparently tie everything up.

But I don't understand why its okay to make "remakes" of Disney's live action films, or why making a film of a live action tv series (Lizzie McQuire) is better than making a film of an animated tv series (Teacher's Pet). The latter has come in for lots of criticism, despite - on the whole - getting better reviews than the former. By most accounts Teacher's Pet is the cleverer, funnier, more satisfying film - yet the response from Disney "fans" has been nothing short of appalling, while the shallow tripe that is Lizzie McQuire has been ignored.

How was making a Pirates of the Caribbean film and artistic rather than a "franchise" decision? Yet we all know the film will come in with a high placing in this forums "Top Live Action Films Countdown". There seems to be too many "emotional" reactions to the animated productions, simply because they are animated. If you’re going to rally against remakes and sequels at least be consistent.

My advice for sequels is simply to read up on them, decide if the sequel is something that may or may not appeal to you and then either watch or don’t watch. But the worst thing anyone can do is prejudge a sequel. Paka seems to be following this advice.
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Post by Poppins#1 »

I think Paka makes excellent points and she is very well spoken (or is that written?) UltimateDisney.com should possibly entice her to write reviews for the website.
I personally have mixed feelings about the whole direct to video sequel franchise. Most are a pale imitation of the original and seem to be dumbed down to target the little ones rather than the whole family. I purchase them hit and miss based on the quality. One video sequel that I thought was exceptionally good was Pocahontas II.
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Post by Athena »

Paka wrote:My biggest problem with cheapquels is the idea behind them, secondly the motive. The motive is not to enrich the Disney library with more quality stories - it's to take existing successful properties and formulas and spin them again to make a buck. You don't hear execs using the words film or story - they most often use vocab like product and franchise, as if movies are just another chicken sandwich.
On this point I heartily agree with you... the motive for making these movies is financial--plain and simple... and the main reason it's so financially profitable is that so much of the pre-production work has already been done. Don't need to invent characters. Don't need to do character designs. This pre-production stuff can take years so why not shave it off entirely in favour of a slapped together story and a few tossed in secondary characters.

I also LOVE the irony that in his day Walt Disney was asked to do a sequel to "The Three Little Pigs" because the short was so popular. He absolutely refused--and if I recall correctly his reasons were something like "what story is there left to tell?" The first sequel of a Disney animated film was not made until 1990 with "The Rescuers Down Under"--and it is in fact one of my favourite films. That's the other thing, some of these stories the sequel actually makes sense. You can believe Bernard and Bianca would go on more adventures so it's not such a mental strain to envision a sequel. Like if Disney is so set on sequels, why not make one for "The Great Mouse Dectective"? Take on one of Basil's other cases?

As for the DTV format itself... while I do strongly agree that all to often DTV means el-cheapo drivel--particularly in the story department--but there are exceptions to the rule. I know this is a 'Disney' forum, but if you'll permit a brief sidetrack, let me point out Joseph: King of Dreams as the best DTV animated sequel I've ever come across. It's ostensibly a prequel to Dreamworks' "The Prince of Egypt" and I found that the production values and storytelling were so high that I liked it better than "Prince of Egypt"... but it's something I would never have watched because it was DTV if it weren't for the fact that I pretty much sift my way through everything animated for my site.

Anyways, my two cents...
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Post by brandonsc »

If I may, I'd like to interject my two cents on this.

Personally, I REALLY did not like the original "Lion King." I wouldn't go so far as to say I "hated" it, but I thought that it was most definitely the worst of all Disney classics. The animation was extremely flat and poorly drawn (the artists, it seemed, got really lazy and decided that their bad drawings would look better when they were shaded in the computer), with the exception of Timon. Also, Jeremy Irons voice "acting" was absolutely horrible. It sounded like every single line was just being read as opposed to acted. However, these things could have been looked over (I mean, the animation, while bad for a DISNEY film, was still better than, say "The Simpsons") had it not been for lack of story development. We see a spoiled little brat who grows into a spoiled big brat. Yet, we're supposed to feel sorry for him because his dad died and look past the fact that he has basically no character development?

Well, many did but I didn't. I always thought that had we had just one scene of Simba growing up in the jungle, just one moment of his adolescence I would have liked TLK a lot more. No, it wouldn't have been my favorite movie or anything (that's Beauty and the Beast), but I personally would have enjoyed it more.

So then Simba's Pride comes out . . . . well, I didn't like the first, why would I watch the second? It took several months, but I was bored, and thought "eh, what the heck?" So I rented it . . . WOAH! I had already admired the Australian Disney artists for years since their work on "Gummi Bears," but they took those flat characters and made them fully animated beautifully crafted pieces of art! The story was nice and simple enough for kids, but it had at least some adult sensibility (Simba: "You know the penalty for returning to the Pride Lands!" Zira: "But the child does not! However, if you need your pound of flesh . . . "). Personally, while Neve Campbell wasn't particularly amazing with Kiara, I found her much more likeable than Simba, more down to earth and yet, she's still a princess. And of course, NO CRAPPY JEREMY IRONS "ACTING"! So, yeah, I loved the sequel. I thought it was at least a thousand times better than it's predecessor. There were a couple things about the story that bugged me such as the "fact" that "Kovu"-swahili for "Scar" apparently- is *wink wink* *nudge nudge* "NOT" the son of Scar! (We wouldn't want romance between second-cousins despite the fact that they are animals, now would we?) and the things they edited out from the work print like Nuka's dying words, Kathleen Turner's singing and MOST importantly Zira's suicide. However, a great flick overall. Because I want to own ALL the Disney classics (I'm up to 32/43) I bought "The Lion King" but because I loved Simba's Pride, I bought that.

All that being said, regarding The Lion King 1.5, It's by the same incredible artists that made SP. Even more importantly, it appears basically to be a feature length version of what I always felt was needed to make TLK any good. I can say, without a doubt that I am VERY much looking forward to this film and these are my reasons why.


BTW, I REALIZE that I am in the extreme minority with my opinions regarding the first film and to a lesser extent the second film, but just FYI, these are not random thoughts based fully on opinion. As an independent animation director I have produced many cartoons including one feature length, several 20 minute and numerous shorts. In other words, I have been writing/ animating cartoons for years and done countless hours of voice directing. From this is where my opinions for writing/ animation/ voice acting come. I'm not saying my opinion is in any way "better" than anyone else’s, but in case anyone wanted to "attack" my opinions (I'm wide open for debate, though!), please know that I'm not some brain-dead moron who hates the Lion King for no reason.
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Post by advance »

Yes most people think like you said, the opposite of what you think.
I thought my self that the lion king was a great movie. And After I saw Simba's Pride I was disappointed . And never watched it again. I've only seen the Dutch version of it, but I think I will rent The Special Edition of it, to watch the english version.
As for The Lion King 1 1/2(Called The Lionking 3: Hakuna Matata here in holland ). I'm looking forward to it. But I'd like to see a real Sequal to the Lion king II, and no some thing about the cild, of Kovu and Kiara but something different, just say I want that disney surprise us with it. But I don't think it will now that the Drawed animation by disney is dying.
I also like to sey a prequal made by the team that made the Lion King about Mufasa and scar. It coud be called something like Mufasa and Taka(scar): The story of two Brothers, something like that.
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