PINOCCHIO - 3 different masters *graphics heavy*

drsd2kill · Post by **drsd2kill** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:19 pm

I have mixed feelings about this version because:

POSITIVES:
* it is amazingly sharp and detailed, revealing far more of the intricate artwork than before
* color is wonderful
* original RKO logo
* there is still a lot of visible cel dust that has not all been filtered and removed, indicating less of a digital overhaul than some other films (BAMBI & CINDERELLA come to mind...)

NEGATIVES:
* colors have obviously been changed (check out the pink flame)
* light shades and white are grayish
* subtleties in the lighting are now all gone, and it's like we are looking at the actual cell - which is NOT what was intended - this is a problem I have with all of these digital restorations
* referencing original artwork will not result in a more accurate image since the colors used were selected based on using a chart that showed how they would look once PRINTED in Technicolor

I must say I enjoy having this version of the film, while I find the new CINDERELLA completely unwatchable.

Super Aurora · Post by **Super Aurora** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:27 pm

not getting too off topic but did any of you look at the image of Jiminny Cricket in back with backgrounds? Did any of you notice that there was a book of Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan?

Do you think Disney look at that scene and decided to make those movies? Or you think he put them there cause he wanted to make those movies in the future? Interesting that I just notice that.

DaveWadding · Post by **DaveWadding** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:37 pm

Super Aurora wrote:not getting too off topic but did any of you look at the image of Jiminny Cricket in back with backgrounds? Did any of you notice that there was a book of Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan?

Do you think Disney look at that scene and decided to make those movies? Or you think he put them there cause he wanted to make those movies in the future? Interesting that I just notice that.

IIRC, they had already batted around ideas for those 2 pictures before/during Pinocchio's production

Big Disney Fan · Post by **Big Disney Fan** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:55 pm

DaveWadding wrote:
Super Aurora wrote:not getting too off topic but did any of you look at the image of Jiminny Cricket in back with backgrounds? Did any of you notice that there was a book of Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan?

Do you think Disney look at that scene and decided to make those movies? Or you think he put them there cause he wanted to make those movies in the future? Interesting that I just notice that.
IIRC, they had already batted around ideas for those 2 pictures before/during Pinocchio's production

But because of WWII, those projects were put on hold. Instead of being released in the 1940s, as originally planned, they were withheld 'til the '50s.

Super Aurora · Post by **Super Aurora** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:47 pm

Ah I see. That makes much more sense now.

Scaramanga · Post by **Scaramanga** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:44 am

Anders M Olsson wrote:Take a look at the gray and unnatural skin tones.

I said the same thing about the 007 Ultimate Editions and people thought I was crazy ...

As for the Technicolor thing ... if they know what they are doing at all that should be easy enough to "recreate". If they have the Technicolor negatives they shouldn't even need to tweak the colours ... given that it's 3 B&W strips anyway.

So I do think referencing original art could result in an improvement, as long as they take the Techicolor mutation into account ... hell, it should be easy enough for them to emulate that effect digitally. (since scanning and recombining the original negatives digitally would not cause the same shift as the original proces a far as I know)

Gregbert · Post by **Gregbert** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:26 am

drsd2kill,

Thank you for this thread. This has been great! I wish I would have picked up that DVD back in 2003; I live in the US but all my electronics are PAL including my TVs so I would have no problems watching it.

Is there any articles about the Lowry restorations? I love topics about restoration but don't know where to look for the ones Lowry did.

Take care,
Greg

drsd2kill · Post by **drsd2kill** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:04 pm

Okay, here comes some more controversy. I should go back and get more screencaps from the '97 LD, '93 LD and '03 PAL DVD to compare them with the trailers that were on the 1993 CAV Laserdisc box set. The 1940 trailer looks wonderful, as if it had been restored but not tweaked like the transfer of the movie. The 1984 trailer looked very good too. The 1992 trailer was cropped and looked awful - lol. Of course, these trailers are not from perfect elements and the transfers are not done with as much care (especially the horrible-looking 1992 trailer), but they make for an interesting comparison color-wise.

So for now, here are some images from these trailers. The footage was so different in each that I often couldn't get images I'd already gotten from the video releases, but a few I was able to get close.

1940 trailer
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer5.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 

1984 trailer
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer5.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer7.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 

1992 trailer
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer5.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... ailer6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> 

Wouldn't it be loverly if they would include excellent transfers from the preservation film elements with maybe some dirt and scratch removal and the original mono track AND whatever digitally enhanced/remixed version all on the same disc? They certainly could do it with Blu-Ray, and have an extra disc for bonus features even.

Wishful thinking on my part. I'm also worried about how the 4 & 6-channel musicals are gonna be presented on the next hi-def formats. Almost all of them have soundtracks that are filtered to death and sound far inferior to their Laserdisc counterparts.

Chuck

*Still waiting on CAV 1989 CINDERELLA LD - When I get it, I'll post comparison pics between it, the 1995 CAV LD and the 2005 DVD*

DisneyFanatic · Post by **DisneyFanatic** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:07 pm

Marce82 wrote:True, the 2003 version looks the best when it comes to definition. But when it comes to the color...I like the middle version the best. Colors seem warmer. There is a mild blue tint to the 2003 release.

I agree. I would like it with color closer to the middle version. I really don;t know a lot about restoration stuff, but to my eye, I like the middle color best and the clarity of the 2003.

drsd2kill · Post by **drsd2kill** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:15 pm

Can we sometimes have TOO much clarity? Who looks good with a magnifying glass up to their face in florescent light?

I think with animation - and the size of the actual canvas - there is a place where you're going to reach the point of diminishing returns. Color is SO important to these films, and it looks so much like they are changing things.

BTW - I posted at the Home Theater Forum, and there are some interesting comments from that site as well as a sneak peak at some CINDERELLA pics.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/sho ... p?t=252551

musicradio77 · Post by **musicradio77** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:47 pm

drsd2kill, do you have pics from the 1978 trailer with "The Small One"?

Big Disney Fan · Post by **Big Disney Fan** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:12 pm

musicradio77 wrote:drsd2kill, do you have pics from the 1978 trailer with "The Small One"?

And the 1962 trailer? My mom got to see that release back then.

Now, mind you, this is just wishful thinking, but I think the video quality of the PE release of the movie should be more equivalent to the 1940 trailer. That'd be interesting, wouldn't it?

Big Disney Fan · Post by **Big Disney Fan** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:13 pm

musicradio77 wrote:drsd2kill, do you have pics from the 1978 trailer with "The Small One"?

And the 1962 trailer? My mom got to see that release back then.

Now, mind you, this is just wishful thinking, but I think the video quality of the PE release of the movie should be more equivalent to the 1940 trailer. That'd be interesting, wouldn't it? Or maybe they can use the quality of the 1984 re-release trailer. But whatever they do, they must NOT use the quality of the 1992 trailer. That one is AWFUL.

drsd2kill · Post by **drsd2kill** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:03 pm

musicradio77 · Post by **musicradio77** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:27 pm

I found this link to the pics from "The Small One". It was from the postage stamps as shown as scenes from the short movie.

http://www.toto.net/townsend/smallone.jpg

By the way, the pic is too big, so I decided to have a link to take a look. "The Small One" was directed by Don Bluth, and it was featured on the DVD called "Classic Holiday Stories". According to IMDB:

Premiered along with the 1978 re-release of "Pinocchio".

There you have it.

Super Aurora wrote:not getting too off topic but did any of you look at the image of Jiminy Cricket in back with backgrounds? Did any of you notice that there was a book of Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan?

Those are not released yet, because of World War II. "Alice in Wonderland" came out first in 1951, and then "Peter Pan" in 1953.

Big Disney Fan · Post by **Big Disney Fan** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:04 pm

Hey, drsd2kill, do you think you can put up video quality comparisons of Alice In Wonderland? Thanks.

drsd2kill · Post by **drsd2kill** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:39 am

You know, I'd like to do ALICE IN WONDERLAND, DUMBO and a few others, but I don't feel I have enough elements to compare. I have the 2-disc SE DVD of ALICE and the CAV Laserdisc box set from 1995 (which I believe was the same transfer used for the intial DVD release), but I don't have any of the prior versions of ALICE on Laserdisc. I'm going to try to track down cheap copies of the first Laserdisc editions of DUMBO and ALICE IN WONDERLAND, then use the remastered versions (which appeared on LD several times with different packaging), and then I can delve into the DVD releases. I'd like to do ROBIN HOOD, THE SWORD IN THE STONE, and THE RESCUERS as well, but it takes time to track down specific editions of those films on LD (the first two especially).

Don't worry - I'll keep these comin'.

CINDERELLA will be ready the day I receive the 1989 initial Laserdisc release.

Gabrielkat · Post by **Gabrielkat** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:04 pm

drsd2kill wrote: <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... CHIO1C.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/ ... HIO16C.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

While it is great to have the original RKO card for "Pinocchio" on the 2003 UK DVD, shouldn't the text "Distributed by RKO Radio Pictures, Inc." be appearing in the opening credits or on the closing card (or both)?

Big Disney Fan · Post by **Big Disney Fan** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:08 pm

No, I think they stopped having RKO references after Snow White (as I noticed on the Snow White DVD).

Marky_198 · Post by **Marky_198** » Wed May 02, 2007 9:44 am

Can someone please post the different Snowwhite screenshots?

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