Next wave of Walt Disney Treasures? Update: Future In Doubt

[ohmahaaha]

My fear is that when they get around to releasing the Donalds in another format, who's to say that they will be "chronological" like the Treasures were? What if it's a completely different format?


This is really, really disappointing ...

Wait a nimute. You told me not to jump to conclusions on another board.

What, do you feel better now?

[rugbytiger]

According to Bill Cotter's excellent book, The Wonderful World of Disney Television, there are a total of ten Elfego Baca episodes and eight Swamp Fox episodes. The first Treasure only had 3 EB and 3 SF, meaning there's still 12 episodes left or a total of two Treasures.

So, the question then becomes, do we push for a final wave of Treasures with two EB/SF volumes and two DD volumes (a total of four), or ignore EB/SF and push for the two DD volumes and a second Rarities disc, to cover the educational shorts and leftover animated shorts from the other discs?

I prefer the second option, since EB/SF can always be released later in the Legacy collection or better yet as complete series sets. Thoughts, anyone?

Thanks for confirming the episode stats, and I'm glad you agree about pushing for the animated titles. (Complete EB/SF sets later would be ace, then they can do both series justice individually) We could start mentioning incomplete Hardy Boys and Spin and Marty too, but they are obviouly weak sellers too and the core message of 'near animated completion' would get lost.

Here's a useful address and phone number incase anyone doesn't have them!

Buena Vista Home Entertainment
Attn. Consumer Relations
PO Box 3100
Neenah, WI 54957-3100

Phone - (800) 723-4763

[Loomis]

Here I was thinking that the end of the Treasures line was just about due, but as has been mentioned...

The Chronological Donald Volume Three
The Chronological Donald Duck Volume Four
Disney Educational Shorts and Other Rarities
Elfego Baca and the Swamp Fox Volume Two

... there is certainly room for more.

But that is the way of things. No matter how comprehensive a special edition, a collection of shorts or a Treasures set, there is always going to be room for more. As Maltin was attributed as saying, it is a miracle the run lasted 6 years and produced so many wonderful sets. The low-print run on this year's DVDs, and their probable availability for a few months to come, indicates just how small a minority we fans are. When you consider that Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest sold over 5 MILLION copies on the first day alone, and that there were less than that produced for all six waves of Treasures (not having the Wave 3 and 4 figures handy), it is easy to see why Disney would no longer consider them a priority.

However, simply because they aren't a priority, it doesn't mean that vintage material won't still crop up. The Disney Legacy series (which went missing in the post, and I am now currently waiting on a replacement) seems to be where the focus has shifted for this kind of thing - especially with this year's Oswald release - and I feel confident that we will see these things in some form or another elsewhere. After all, Disney must recognise that there IS a market for them.

Still, 22 tins is quite phenomenal for a limited edition run. They were all quite cheap given the amount of stuff that could have easily been stuck in a plastic case and still cost the same, and they are now ours to keep until the DVD rot sets in. Count your blessings folks!

[rugbytiger]

But that is the way of things. No matter how comprehensive a special edition, a collection of shorts or a Treasures set, there is always going to be room for more. As Maltin was attributed as saying, it is a miracle the run lasted 6 years and produced so many wonderful sets. The low-print run on this year's DVDs, and their probable availability for a few months to come, indicates just how small a minority we fans are. When you consider that Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest sold over 5 MILLION copies on the first day alone, and that there were less than that produced for all six waves of Treasures (not having the Wave 3 and 4 figures handy), it is easy to see why Disney would no longer consider them a priority.

However, simply because they aren't a priority, it doesn't mean that vintage material won't still crop up. The Disney Legacy series (which went missing in the post, and I am now currently waiting on a replacement) seems to be where the focus has shifted for this kind of thing - especially with this year's Oswald release - and I feel confident that we will see these things in some form or another elsewhere. After all, Disney must recognise that there IS a market for them.

I appreciate your point, but there is no other natural home for those last few animated shorts than the Disney Treasures line without ommissions and double dipping. Yes, we could go on for ever adding more volumes in this series if we delve around in the tv archive, but the clear fact is that only three more animated voulmes are needed to actually COMPLETE all the theatricals. It's not infinite, and just three sets would be needed to make the large majority who have invested $600 dollars so far happy with the conclusion of the series.

If we'd got halfway through the shorts catalogue, I might accept such a defeatest point of view, but since we are SO SO close, we must MUST fight for 'em. Taking the route of only requesting the popular animated stuff to round off with (and cutting our losses with the live action shelf sitters) surely can't be that unprofitable a proposition!!!

[kyler28]

I only ask that because as much as I love the new four sets of True-Life Adventure Legacy series released last month, there's no WAY that they could ever sell as many as some of the more popular Treasures sets, i.e., Mickey or Donald sets.

So, if Disney can't sell "enough" to satisfy their Treasures numbers, what hope is there for the Legacy series?

Very discouraging and disappointing. FYI: This is why I stopped buying junk like "Cinderella 2" and "Little Mermaid II" a few years ago. I REFUSE to send the wrong message to the 29-year-old Disney Home Video marketing "geniuses" who wouldn't know the Swamp Fox from Texas John Slaughter or "Savage Sam" from "Old Yeller." So, stop buying the junk and feeding their loathing of anything produced prior to THEIR era; if you talk to them, most of them are only interested in anything produced in the last two or three years so they can take credit for making copies jump off the shelf.

[Maerj]

I'm pretty disappointed too. I hope that Disney finishes Donald in some form, but what really hurts is our best chance of ever getting something like Song of the South on DVD is gone as well.

For my money, I'm now of the opinion that we have to start putting the screws to Disney on the Legacy collection. It's really the only horse we have left to ride, so let's ride it!

When the Legacy True Life sets came out, I had the opportunity to meet Roy Disney and I asked him about the possibility of releasing Song of the South in the Legacy series. He did the 'knock on wood' gesture and said he is hoping to do it. So there is a chance of getting it.

[goofystitch]

So now that the line is officially over, is anybody starting a petition we can sign to get the last 3 animated volumes released? And if there is no petition, could somebody please post an address where we can all send letters/e-mail begging them to do one last wave with the three volumes we would like?

[rugbytiger]

So now that the line is officially over, is anybody starting a petition we can sign to get the last 3 animated volumes released? And if there is no petition, could somebody please post an address where we can all send letters/e-mail begging them to do one last wave with the three volumes we would like?

I posted this a little higher up, but it can't be repeated enough!

Buena Vista Home Entertainment
Attn. Consumer Relations
PO Box 3100
Neenah, WI 54957-3100

Phone - (800) 723-4763

the only way i can find to email is using this form....

http://studio.go.com/cgi-bin/gmail/gene ... edback.tpl

Definitely give the email a go, but it's postal letters and calls that will be most effective, methinks!

[Edge]

Personally I don't mind the collector aspects or even what they're called, but at the very least I want Donald Duck cartoons completed and other older cartoons.

Be honest with you, DD is the first thing that came to mind when I saw this.

However I just can't see them not finishing off his run. Might be under a different title without tins, but for me that's fine.

[Scaramanga]

This sucks ... I had hoped for a set that finishes off the Donald shorts. Now all I'm left with is an incomplete collection of Disney shorts. I'd even be happy with a non-limited, non-"tinned" edition ... then again the shorts would probably be unrestored too ... which is not an option either IMO.

[rugbytiger]

This vital information needs it's own thread, so I thought I'd start it!

With the theatrical shorts being just three volumes away from completion, we can't let the animated side of the Treasures collection end now, as rumored, without a fight. This new information from Jon Cooke, over at GoldenAgeCartoons.com proves we must make our feelings heard...

------
Cross posted from http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/sho ... php?t=8211 with permission....

As a poster here recently pointed out, Leonard Maltin has been informed that Walt Disney Home Video presently has no further plans for further Walt Disney Treasures waves. Disney public relations personell might tell you otherwise, but a private source close to the Treasures series has advised me that the bad news is absolutely reliable as of right now.

Apparently— and here's where my source went into more detail than Mr. Maltin— the Treasures series is not being halted due to lack of public interest, nor do the most recent wave's smaller edition numbers (60,000 vs. 100,000+) reflect plunging sales. From what I understand, the smaller editions and possible cancellation merely reflect deliberate marketing efforts, so that Treasures will not sideline newer products that Home Video management wants to launch.

My source tells me that WD Treasures' demise could still be reversed; that this is the time of year when the annual wave begins production, so if a go-ahead came down from the appropriate powers on high, another wave could yet take place. My source recommends that anyone who's interested e-mail or write Dick Cook, Chairman of the Walt Disney Studios and a longtime enthusiast for the Treasures series. Mr. Cook may not yet be aware of the series' cancellation; if he is, he may not know how many fans support its continuation. He needs to be informed of both.

Dick Cook
Chairman, Walt Disney Studios
The Walt Disney Company
500 S. Buena Vista St. Burbank, CA 91521-9722

e-mail: [email protected]

Please be polite in your letters but still let them know much you support the Treasures line and are disappointed that they may be ending soon. I suggest we request specifically that the next wave include the remaining two Donald sets; some would call two Donald tins at once overkill, but that way Donald's cartoons can at least be released complete before the series' future is threatened again.

As a final word; please don't turn this into a complaints thread about the relatively minor glitches (i. e. use of edited prints) on the most recent Treasures wave. Let's please try to stay on topic in this particular thread and focus on the bigger picture which is contacting Mr. Cook directly and making sure another wave of Treasures happens, period.

------------------------------

I think Jon is completely right; we can make a difference but if we start mentioning other issues other than the desire to see the collection continue, then we'll just be clouding the issue. I reccommend that you shout for the importance of seeing Chrolological Donald volume 3, Chronological Donald Volume 4, and an additional Rareties/Educational animated shorts collection to mop up all of the loose ends that Leonard left off the previous sets in good faith. With that we'll have every theatrical animated short on DVD and I think most of us who have invested $600+ in the line so far will be happy campers!

If you are particularly eager, once you've contacted Mr. Cook (details above), here are some more details of people to badger...

Buena Vista Home Entertainment
Attn. Consumer Relations
PO Box 3100
Neenah, WI 54957-3100
(800) 723-4763

or...

The Walt Disney Company
Attn: Buena Vista Home Entertainment
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521
USA

And two names to use if you prefer (suggested by Geezil over at GAC), also at the 500 South Buena Vista Street location are:

Anne Sweeney
Co-Chair, Disney Media Networks

George W. Bodenheimer
Co-Chairman, Disney Media Networks

Disney.com also have a feedback section ( http://studio.go.com/cgi-bin/gmail/gene ... edback.tpl ) , and if anyone has any further customer service phone number please post it here!

How proud would you feel if you only had a complete set of Disney shorts on your shelves because you helped rescued the line from danger? We have that chance now to make a difference so write, write, write calmly and politely and let's create a traditional Disney happy ending for the Treasures collection

[TM2-Megatron]

This is really so disgustingly typical of the mindest the people currently running this company [into the ground] display. When they're just one more wave short of completing one of the most admirable, thorough and as close to perfect a job as has been done at Disney in decades... what do they do? End the line?!?!?! And even worse than that, what about the many of us who've spent a fair chunk of money and time amassing the previous waves, only to be screwed at the end of it all by lazy, incompetent and visionless morons?

Now it's pretty much impossible for me to find anything worthwhile Disney's done in years worth mentioning... particularly Disney Home Video, which has been slipping ever since the 2002 or so. We had an impossibly brief, golden age of quality DVD releases followed by year after year of almost complete crap. Who on Earth is running that department, and why haven't they been fired?

Personally, I could care less about them completing Elfego Baca and The Swamp Fox or Spin & Marty at this point... IMO these never should have had a place in the Treasures in the first place. It should now be left to some other line (Legacy or otherwise). Now it's even more apparent that they never should've been released in the Treasure line, instead leaving space for the two Donald volumes that we still need. Having the Hardy Boys in this line was questionable, as well... I'd have much rather preferred this makeup for the last two waves:

Wave 5:
The Chronological Donald, Volume 2
The Chronological Donald, Volume 3
The Complete Pluto, Volume 2
Disney Rarities: Celebrated Shorts: 1920s - 1960s

Wave 6
More Silly Symphonies
The Chronological Donald, Volume 4
Educational Shorts & Other Rarities
Your Host, Walt Disney

That, at least, would've made some kind of sense. It doesn't take a marketing genius to come up with that! We'd have wrapped up all the essential Walt-ear animated works; and cut out the pointless live-action stuff that was actually released instead. As enjoyable as some of you may find them, there's no denying that all of it would've been better left to some other line; maybe the Legacy... or hell, maybe just released like any other TV show. Also, with lineups like that, I don't think either Wave would've suffered from any kind of drop in sales.

[TM2-Megatron]

They'll be hearing from me on several fronts, that's for sure. I rarely use the conventional postal system these days, but I'll make an exception for this cause.

Also, perhaps we should consider starting some kind of fund... it's about time we all faced facts and realized that the only way to really save Disney at this point is to buy the whole damn thing and put it under the management of someone who gives a crap. Especially those #!$%#@'s in the BVHE department... they really need to get the axe.

[2099net]

This is really so disgustingly typical of the mindest the people currently running this company [into the ground] display. When they're just one more wave short of completing one of the most admirable, thorough and as close to perfect a job as has been done at Disney in decades... what do they do? End the line?!?!?! And even worse than that, what about the many of us who've spent a fair chunk of money and time amassing the previous waves, only to be screwed at the end of it all by lazy, incompetent and visionless morons?

I can't see how they can be accused of running the company into the ground when Disney have had so many top selling DVDs and box office returns on their movies recently. Nor do I see how we have been "screwed". After all, we still have countless treasures that wouldn't have been released at all. Being able to own all the B/W Mickey Mouse shorts is nothing short of amazing... same for all the Silly Symphonies.

You know what they say: "An inch is better than a mile in the right direction"

Disney are only doing what a public traded company has to do - make the best possible return for the shareholders. It has to do that by law. Its the basic concept of the whole economy. Once a company is public, its only loyalty is to the shareholder.

It takes time and resourses to compile these sets... and if the same time and resourses can be employed producing 4 sets that sell many times more, what would YOU do? Especially when you're pressured to always produce the biggest returns. There's people on this forum (me included) who like to read about Disney's shareholder meetings and results, and we don't have any vested interest in the share price or dividends. But a lot of large companies do - there's a lot of pensions invested in Disney shares, and the fund managers are always pressuring the board. That's how Eisner left after all. Not from us, Disney fans, complaining. Not from Roy either I would suspect. But from massive fund managers who require maximum returns at all times.

I'm always amused when people complain about Disney being cheap on the Treasures sets (from number stamping to restoration issues), if anything, its the low price of the sets that doomed the line. In the days of Laserdisc, such a set would have been 3 or 4 times the price (admittedly with perhaps a book thrown in to the package too).

I've always suspected that Disney was restoring the shorts before the Treasures line was even a glint in Maltin's eye. After all, this is how Warner works - all of their restored archive films are scheduled for restoration (because they are assets Warner want to keep in tip-top condition) and then, when they are finished and restored a DVD release is scheduled. It is not done the other way round - DVD sales do not drive the process. I also think this is why some non-cartoon sets were released - to pad out the waves while more shorts were being restored. By the looks of it, the waves more or less caught up to the restoration work by Wave 5, indicating that perhaps the line was looking less secure.

That said, these are treasures in name and concept, and it's utterly appalling the lack of advertising and promotion Disney has given them. Warner goes all out to promote their "classic" holdings, with superb boxsets (or including older versions of films in definitive DVD releases). Disney couldn't even market the Treasures abroad with any form of conviction.

Disney... well Disney didn't seem to know what to do... just like they don't really seem to know what to do with the bulk of their TV releases (Lost and Desperate Housewives excluded).

[TM2-Megatron]

I can't see how they can be accused of running the company into the ground when Disney have had so many top selling DVDs and box office returns on their movies recently. Nor do I see how we have been "screwed". After all, we still have countless treasures that wouldn't have been released at all. Being able to own all the B/W Mickey Mouse shorts is nothing short of amazing... same for all the Silly Symphonies.

Since when has financial success ever been indicative of quality? With the exception of a very select few titles over the past years, Disney's been releasing crap... both theatrically and directly to video/DVD.

Even putting quality of writing and storytelling aside, there's no denying the quality of their DVD releases has been slipping for years... and it isn't always a matter of them doing what's cheapest and easiest, either. The recent Tarzan debacle is a great example... instead of simplying reprinting an already compiled and finished 2-disc set (recently released in other regions, to boot) Disney instead creates an entirely new, entirely awful 1-disc "Special Edition" craptacular... which hopefully disgusted a lot of people.

And where's the 2-disc Lilo & Stitch CE we were promised years ago? It's been released elsewhere... everything on it is done... where in the name of God is it?!?!?! The simple fact is Disney has incompetents working for them... lots and lots of them, if I'm any judge.

You know what they say: "An inch is better than a mile in the right direction"

Yeah, but you know what's worse? Coming within an inch... hell, less than that, even... coming withing the width of a cosmic string of the finish line and just stopping dead in your tracks. That's the most frustrating thing that could possibly happen.

Disney are only doing what a public traded company has to do - make the best possible return for the shareholders. It has to do that by law. Its the basic concept of the whole economy. Once a company is public, its only loyalty is to the shareholder.

Other companies... many less successful, manage to release both popular blockbusters alongside content for niche markets without anyone taking offense. Besides, I've never heard of anyone, stockholder or otherwise, complaining about the Treasures line losing them money.

It takes time and resourses to compile these sets... and if the same time and resourses can be employed producing 4 sets that sell many times more, what would YOU do? Especially when you're pressured to always produce the biggest returns.

That would've been fine if they'd decided not to do them at all in the first place... but to get to the point where there's only 2 or 3 more sets required and then just stop is ridiculous.

There's people on this forum (me included) who like to read about Disney's shareholder meetings and results, and we don't have any vested interest in the share price or dividends. But a lot of large companies do - there's a lot of pensions invested in Disney shares, and the fund managers are always pressuring the board. That's how Eisner left after all. Not from us, Disney fans, complaining. Not from Roy either I would suspect. But from massive fund managers who require maximum returns at all times.

I read their annual report, too... but I maintain that niche products like the Treasures line are a necessity. Some things simply have to be done; for the sake of historical significance, preservation, and whatever other reasons you can come up with. Besides, if Disney had actually been losing money from the Treasures line we never would've made it all the way up to Wave 6... they'd have axed it after the 2nd Wave at most.

I'm always amused when people complain about Disney being cheap on the Treasures sets (from number stamping to restoration issues), if anything, its the low price of the sets that doomed the line. In the days of Laserdisc, such a set would have been 3 or 4 times the price (admittedly with perhaps a book thrown in to the package too).

Personally, the only things I generally complain about are a lack in quality of the content itself. As far as the packaging goes, nothing's prevented me from buying dark-grey Alpha double cases off the net and replacing the white cases of Wave 4, and the weird black non-alpha cases of 5 and 6. The tins themselves have only really degraded in the way the back is now only glued-on, but that never bothered me too much. And personally, I acutally prefer the Certificate of Authenticity to the stamped-on numbers.

[2099net]

I read their annual report, too... but I maintain that niche products like the Treasures line are a necessity. Some things simply have to be done; for the sake of historical significance, preservation, and whatever other reasons you can come up with. Besides, if Disney had actually been losing money from the Treasures line we never would've made it all the way up to Wave 6... they'd have axed it after the 2nd Wave at most.

Yes. It's not always about money in. A fine balance has to be made between publicity, satisfaction, and cost.

Many companies do do things that loose them money, if they think it keeps their core customers happy. That's why shops have loss leaders and why company product lines can also be loss leaders.

It's also why some companies replace discs or goods quite soon after a problem is discovered, no matter how slight, and why some companies don't.

Notice how long Warner delayed the Tom and Jerry Vol 2 Replacement program, while they've been so quick with others? Because - I speculate - that was from the Family Entertainment division, who (incorrectly) assumed the bulk of the purchases would be for kids who wouldn't care less about edits. It was only extended pressure and talks of boycotts which made them change their minds much later. Originally they caculated the cost of a replacement program would be greater than any current or future sales lost without a replacement.

More enlightened companies consider customer satisfaction important, as it will lead to repeat sales. Some only consider the current bottom line.

I think at the least, Disney should finished the animated releases, just for this reason. It would keep most of us happy.

As for Disney loosing money, I bet they were before this wave, just look at some of the limited edition numbers.

Personally, the only things I generally complain about are a lack in quality of the content itself. As far as the packaging goes, nothing's prevented me from buying dark-grey Alpha double cases off the net and replacing the white cases of Wave 4, and the weird black non-alpha cases of 5 and 6. The tins themselves have only really degraded in the way the back is now only glued-on, but that never bothered me too much. And personally, I acutally prefer the Certificate of Authenticity to the stamped-on numbers.

Yes, but some people here did complain. Maybe the Treasures aren't a good example, but being as I know that there are people who refused to buy any Warner discs while they were in the snapper case, or refuse to buy any flippers, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a small number who refused to buy the Treasures after the packaging was altered. Some people are funny like that... especially when collecting.

But the packaging is only a small issue. What about restoration? If we assume the average animated Treasures release is 4 and a bit hours, that about 3.5 times the length of Bambi. It took over a year for Bambi to be restored. So, 2 animated releases per wave... thats about 7 Bambi's to restore. And yet, you get about 3.5 times much "restored" content on a Treasures release than on Bambi release, for only about $5 more MSRP (plus you get the tin). Plus Disney are capping any potential further profit they could make by limiting the print run. Plus, looking at it time wise, you'd be hard pressed to get new waves restored annually (especially as, presumably Disney has lots of other restorations scheduled and planned during the year too).

I believe two or three things killed the Treasures:

1. The low price for the content. But once they set the price on wave 1, I guess they were stuck with it. Also, don't forget in real terms the price has dropped with each wave being as it has remained consistant if inflation is taken into account.

2. Lack of Publicity (I mean, even the sister Legacy releases don't have sneak peeks for Wave 6 on, let alone normal DVD releases). The lack of publicity and promotion is inexcusable. I'm confident with proper promotion they could have doubled the sales at least. Heck, just have Maltin being interviewed on a sneak peek discussing how RARE and UNIQUE the Treasures were, and people would buy them, even if they weren't interested!

3. The packaging. I believe that they have had a problem with dented tins being returned. People on here talk about the tins so much. I bet they regret ever doing the tins. (that said, they have released the Legacy series with even stupider packaging. D'oh!) If they wanted to make the sets special, they would have been better off just increasing the size of the insert to 16 pages or 32 pages and writing some proper, informative content for it.

[I am the Doctor]

The Treasures series was "done in" by several dud releases, IMO. After the first three very satisfying waves, we started to get head-scratchers like the first week of the Mickey Mouse Club and a half and half Elfego Baca/Swamp Fox (both of these would have been better served with series sets.)

But rather than discussing where the Treasures went wrong, I think our energies are much better served by writing Disney and/or starting a petition for the rest of Donald Duck and any leftover animated shorts. The Treasures series was never going to go on forever: but I do think that a final wave with the rest of the animated shorts would sell and would satisfy those who've collected the Treasures.

For those who want to see such a release, you need to write Disney. Disney needs to know that there is a demand for such a release. I'm already drafting a letter asking for a "final wave" of Treasures with the rest of the Donald Duck shorts and any leftover shorts still unreleased.

My suggestion is to mail a letter. Phone calls and e-mails are easily lost and/or ignored. Take the time to write a really well thought out letter and send it off to Disney.

[STASHONE]

Hi everyone!

Perhaps this thread could be stickied for a while?



PLEASE CLICK TO SEE DETAILS IN THIS LINK


-- Insider information from a first-hand source regarding the future of the WDT series, including the possibility of green-lighting one final wave to complete and tie together any loose ends. Several email and company contacts are provided.


Again:

http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/sho ... php?t=8211


Cheers!

[Big Disney Fan]

Another futile petition? They won't listen, no matter how hard you try to talk to them. The only thing you guys will accomplish is time being wasted. So if they say they're gonna stop the WDT, all the petitions in the world can't stop them. All you guys can do is just accept the inevitable. Donald's set will never be completed, get over it! If you want to see Donald cartoons so bad, just watch them on YouTube, they're on there! Just give up, petitions don't help, they never have and I don't think they ever will.

[Elladorine]

They never have?

Um. . . online petitions actually helped KP get the fourth season after Disney canceled the show. . .

Just thought I should point that out.