Do you think that Disney films are losing their magic?

[Daz]

Do you sometimes feel that Disney films are loosing there magic.

Films like The Aristocats, Peter Pan, Jungle Book, Cinderella, Robin Hood and all the rest of the old ones, were all really good films that were original. And know Disney is starting to loose its magic by just making sequals and the same kind of rubbish over and over.

The best Disney films were the animated ones and most they make know are rubbish like the Cheetah Girls (Sorry if you like this film but I hate it!) and you barely see any good animated ones coming out of Disney know apart from every so often when they bring a good one out.

Do you agree or not?

[Escapay]

This thread could benefit from:

1. A more specific thread title rather than a cryptic "Do you think..."

2. Merging with this similar topic.

Disney hasn't lost their magic. Brother Bear, Pirates, Narnia, and Chicken Little are proof their magic still exists. It's just the audience that's taking their sweet time falling under the spells.

Escapay

[Disney-Fan]

Disney hasn't lost their magic. Brother Bear, Pirates, Narnia, and <strike>Chicken Little</strike> are proof their magic still exists. It's just the audience that's taking their sweet time falling under the spells.

Escapay

Ahh, that's better.

[Escapay]

Disney hasn't lost their magic. Brother Bear, Pirates, Narnia, and <strike>Chicken Little</strike> are proof their magic still exists. It's just the audience that's taking their sweet time falling under the spells.

Escapay

Ahh, that's better.

I threw that in there knowing someone would do that!

Oh well, at least Justin and I can take all the magic of Chicken Little that everyone else is rejecting.

Escapay

[darth_deetoo]

I quite liked Chicken Little for what it was. Everyone was putting it down before it came out, but I thought it was well animated and generally quite enjoyable.

I'm still looking forward to a return to 2D animation though, and more traditional Disney animation like Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast.

[Wonderlicious]

Whilst I could understand (and to some extent, agree) that Disney's recent animated offerings aren't quite as good as their 90s counterparts and I think most people with some decent taste find most of the Disney Channel live action stuff to be a bit irritating, there have recently been some really note-worthy films made by Disney (or at least co-produced by them). Escapay has listed the obvious ones (well, aside from maybe Chicken Little, which I tried to like, but got bored), but there's also Lilo and Stitch, Freaky Friday, Home on the Range, The Princess Diaries (guilty pleasure of mine ) and various Pixar co-productions as well. And I think that with Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End, Meet the Robinsons, Ratatouille and Enchanted, the magic will most likely still be lasting on in to next year and probably beyond with Rapunzel and The Frog Princess.

[Siren]

Disney hasn't lost their magic. Brother Bear, Pirates, Narnia, and <strike>Chicken Little</strike> are proof their magic still exists. It's just the audience that's taking their sweet time falling under the spells.

Escapay

Ahh, that's better.

Here here! The movie had a few moments...a few...And I thought it was original...but it just didn't have the Disney magic, IMO.

I don't think Disney has lost it's magic. However, last I heard "Disney Magic" is still on lifesupport in a coma. Its heartrate picked up now and then, like with Narnia and Pirates of the Caribbean. I believe it was diagnosied with "Disneywantsmoreprofitsbutatcheapercost Syndrome".

[Jules]

Hmm...

While we're on the subject of Chicken Little...my brother (36 years) saw Chicken Little earlier this year. Whereas I liked it very much, my brother was - I quote him - "disgusted" by it.

He said that not only was it a failure of film-making, mainly in terms of its storytelling, but he was shocked at the horrifying messages that lie beneath its extrerior.

My bro thought that making CL look extremely nerdy (with his green spectacles) and Runt "ridiculously obese", and having them ridiculed by their classmates is offensive...just like bullying. He continued that this was no clearer than when the coach said "Popular versus unpopular." He found it mean and cruel.

I remember there was more, but it's been long and I've forgotten. However, I've always been thinking whether my brother's words are justified or not. Was he making a mountain out of a mole hill? I kind of see his point, but I honestly don't think that Chicken Little could be so offensive. Moreover, even if it is, I'm sure the guys at WDFA don't mean it to be that way.

So what do you guys think? I just hope my brother's wrong... no Disney film could be like that surely? Or could it?

[2099net]

Hmm...

While we're on the subject of Chicken Little...my brother (36 years) saw Chicken Little earlier this year. Whereas I liked it very much, my brother was - I quote him - "disgusted" by it.

He said that not only was it a failure of film-making, mainly in terms of its storytelling, but he was shocked at the horrifying messages that lie beneath its extrerior.

My bro thought that making CL look extremely nerdy (with his green spectacles) and Runt "ridiculously obese", and having them ridiculed by their classmates is offensive...just like bullying. He continued that this was no clearer than when the coach said "Popular versus unpopular." He found it mean and cruel.

I remember there was more, but it's been long and I've forgotten. However, I've always been thinking whether my brother's words are justified or not. Was he making a mountain out of a mole hill? I kind of see his point, but I honestly don't think that Chicken Little could be so offensive. Moreover, even if it is, I'm sure the guys at WDFA don't mean it to be that way.

So what do you guys think? I just hope my brother's wrong... no Disney film could be like that surely? Or could it?

Yes, but isn't that the point? The unpopular nerds become the heroes. Not every hero has to be a Prince Charming!

[Siren]

Chicken Little was an underdog story. Though Runt was portrayed both fat and stupid, which is a stereotype and he didn't really come out on top like Chicken Little did. Not too many animated characters are both fat AND smart. So I can see a problem with it there. But otherwise, it had a good message.

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

The movie had a few moments...a few...And I thought it was original...but it just didn't have the Disney magic, IMO.

Well, I believe it had the magic, just the not the type most were used to. Sadly, some people believe that Disney should only make flawed princess stories or "broadway-style musicals", when personally, I find that attitude barely a step above "animation is only for kids" attitude.

If you watch the documentary on the DVD, while fluffy, claim a lot of inspiration came from classic Disney shorts. And even show clips that the way Chicken Little missed the baseball was exactly the same way Goofy did way back when. And the way Abby Mallard ran instantly reminded me of a Donald Duck cartoon.

Yes, but isn't that the point? The unpopular nerds become the heroes. Not every hero has to be a Prince Charming!

Exactly. In fact, it could be argued most of the fairytales like Cinderella and The Little Mermaid have "bad" messages" as the people who seem to be "beautiful on the inside" seem to be "beautiful on the outside" and visa-versa. Certainly that could make some people feel bad.

Oh well, at least Justin and I can take all the magic of Chicken Little that everyone else is rejecting.

Escapay

Don't worry my partner, Chicken Little will be loved by the public soon enough. Plans are already in plan to make it the most beloved Disney film ever!

MWHAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[Siren]

The movie had a few moments...a few...And I thought it was original...but it just didn't have the Disney magic, IMO.

Well, I believe it had the magic, just the not the type most were used to. Sadly, some people believe that Disney should only make flawed princess stories or "broadway-style musicals", when personally, I find that attitude barely a step above "animation is only for kids" attitude.

If you watch the documentary on the DVD, while fluffy, claim a lot of inspiration came from classic Disney shorts. And even show clips that the way Chicken Little missed the baseball was exactly the same way Goofy did way back when. And the way Abby Mallard ran instantly reminded me of a Donald Duck cartoon.

And suprisingly, I've never been a huge fan of Disney shorts. You are assuming what people define as Disney magic and each person's feelings on Disney magic will be different. I found Emperor's New Groove very funny, and yet, that was so completely different from other Disney movies. It was very non-traditional. I personally, don't believe animation is only for kids. I absolutely love dark and horror animation as well as some more adult-geared anime with violence and gore. So no, animation isn't kid stuff.

I didn't like Chicken Little for several reasons.
A.) I was already biased from the on set. I have NEVER liked the story of Chicken Little, but I still wanted to give it a chance.
B.) The humor, just didn't strike me as humourous. A few parts, but most, eh.
C.) The story, though original with using the aliens, was still just not my cup of tea. Frankly, they could have put unicorns and gargoyles in it, and I still wouldn't have liked it. But that's just my opinion, you're entitled to your's

CL wasn't Disney's worst. But it wasn't their best either. I prefer Bambi and Lion King far over it.

I think everyone needs to understand we are all entitled to our opinions. I love Gargoyles, many don't. I don't nitpick those who don't and try to convert them into liking it. I say what **I** like about it and that be it. I just don't want to see this thread turn into a "Well if you don't like _____, you're just ignorant" thread.

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

CL wasn't Disney's worst. But it wasn't their best either. I prefer Bambi and Lion King far over it.

I think everyone needs to understand we are all entitled to our opinions. I love Gargoyles, many don't. I don't nitpick those who don't and try to convert them into liking it. I say what **I** like about it and that be it. I just don't want to see this thread turn into a "Well if you don't like _____, you're just ignorant" thread.

Well, I wasn't speaking towards you, just people in general who keep "demanding" Disney to make a new "Princess" film. Which I don't mind seeing, but don't want to see them make one for the sake of it. So sorry if you took that personally.

As for your first statement, well, that's my point. I don't mind if you, or anyone, doesn't like it, but how in the world does it compare to Bambi or The Lion King?

I agree that Bambi and The Lion King are better and would probably rank both(TLK at least) above Chicken Little, but can you really compare them? They're almost as different as you can get. It'd almost be like comparing Casablance to Scooby Doo. Both are as different as you can get, except for the fact both have been made by Warner Brothers. Emperor's New Groove is definetely a good comparison though, especially when both share the same director and are under that same genre. I think saying it isn't as good as ENG is at least more fair than saying it isn't as good as say Beauty and the Beast.

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Very small question for a very broad topic, but, in short, I'd say I basically agree: Disney is overall less "magic" now than it once was - and I'm not necessarily talking about the 90s here...

[PixarFan2006]

I personally think that Lilo and Stitch was the last good Disney cartoon.
The problem with most Disney movies today, is that they are trying to copy the success of Shrek by adding pop culture references in their films.
I was not that impressed with Chicken Little in terms of story and animation. it would have been so much more if they put more effort into it instead of adding pop culture references that will most likely become "dated" in about 5-10 years.

[slave2moonlight]

Disney hasn't lost their magic. Brother Bear, Pirates, Narnia, and <strike>Chicken Little</strike> are proof their magic still exists. It's just the audience that's taking their sweet time falling under the spells.

Escapay

Ahh, that's better.

Ha, agreed. But I would add Lilo and Stitch and Treasure Planet. And I hope the original post was including the renaissance films in with the "classics." Plus some of the ones that came after the Renaissance that weren't considered part of it (Hunchback, Mulan, Tarzan, Hercules, Pocahontas, Emperor's New Groove, etc...). There really haven't been that many stinkers if you don't include direct to video stuff and sequels that SHOULD have been released direct to video (which weren't horrible, but needed more "perfecting"). Plus, Disney has had the magic of PIXAR for a while now too, ha. And it's not like the Cheetah Girls or that other stuff are Disney big screen films. The bad thing is how formulaic Disney is getting with bubblegum pop-star Disney Channel stuff... Every since they turned Hilary Duff into a singing sensation a la Annette Funicello, they have been repeating that technique (with mixed results, none as great as Hilary) over and over and over, making the Disney Channel somewhat of a joke to those with higher expectations from all things Disney.

[Siren]

CL wasn't Disney's worst. But it wasn't their best either. I prefer Bambi and Lion King far over it.

I think everyone needs to understand we are all entitled to our opinions. I love Gargoyles, many don't. I don't nitpick those who don't and try to convert them into liking it. I say what **I** like about it and that be it. I just don't want to see this thread turn into a "Well if you don't like _____, you're just ignorant" thread.

Well, I wasn't speaking towards you, just people in general who keep "demanding" Disney to make a new "Princess" film. Which I don't mind seeing, but don't want to see them make one for the sake of it. So sorry if you took that personally.

As for your first statement, well, that's my point. I don't mind if you, or anyone, doesn't like it, but how in the world does it compare to Bambi or The Lion King?

I agree that Bambi and The Lion King are better and would probably rank both(TLK at least) above Chicken Little, but can you really compare them? They're almost as different as you can get. It'd almost be like comparing Casablance to Scooby Doo. Both are as different as you can get, except for the fact both have been made by Warner Brothers. Emperor's New Groove is definetely a good comparison though, especially when both share the same director and are under that same genre. I think saying it isn't as good as ENG is at least more fair than saying it isn't as good as say Beauty and the Beast.

Bambi and Lion King had better storylines and character arcs, IMO. Does that satisfy you? Even if it doesn't, its not my problem.
Really, the nitpick of comparrison is a moot point. That isn't even on topic with the discussion.

IMO, Brother Bear was the last movie by Disney (not including Pixar here) that had Disney magic.

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

Bambi and Lion King had better storylines and character arcs, IMO. Does that satisfy you? Even if it doesn't, its not my problem.
Really, the nitpick of comparrison is a moot point. That isn't even on topic with the discussion.

IMO, Brother Bear was the last movie by Disney (not including Pixar here) that had Disney magic.

No, because you haven't answered my question: Why are you even comparing Bambi and The Lion King to Chicken Little? Just beacause they're Disney? That's hardly fair! They're not even in the same genre. Bambi and The Lion King has lots of dramatic moments while Chicken Little was trying to be a homage to Disney shorts just like Emperor's New Groove was. Most films(Disney or not) made by the same people/company have different stories under different genres and don't deserve to be compared because of it.

Comparing films has everything to do with the topic. If people didn't compare each film, we wouldn't be getting the "Disney has lost the magic" comments.

Now you seem to like Brother Bear from your last post, correct? Well, I really like it too, but critcs hated it because it was "too formulatic", which to me makes no sense to me. The reason they think it's formulatic is because most critics COMPARE it to The Lion King. That's strange, wasn't the reasons critics didn't Atlantis, ENG and Treasure Planet because they were "too unlike Disney"? Once again, comparing to Disney.

Then you bring Pixar into discussion, when, THEY'RE ALL THE SAME(<strike>The Fantastic Four</strike> The Incredibles excluded). How do they have the Disney magic when the follow basically the same formula of somebody trying to "find themselves" with a buddy(and more importantly, why do they get away with repeating the same plot?)? Hasn't Pixar created their own stlye they constantly use that Disney hasn't?

Personally, I think Chicken Little is a masterpiece. Well, it might not be perfect, but any comparison to most of Disney's films in the past is flat out unfair. I think it has tons of magic. The characters are all wonderfully developed and likeable. How anyone can say Chicken Little is unlikeable but that bratty Ariel is is beyond me. They're all easy to relate to, and can't help but love em. The story wonderfully developed with lots of hilarious jokes that continues the style of Emperor's New Groove(NOT A SHREK RIP-OFF). The songs are also great. Cheetah Girls crap aside, every hit rocks imo. How one can like the dull and ear bleading soundtracks known as Pocahontas of The Hunchback is also beyond me. The story itself is simply fascinating. Maybe a bit "out there" for people, but I think it's great and had it been anyone else but Disney making it, critics would at least rave about it. And visually, it's also a great movie, just as good, if not better, than Pixar's work. And there's much more to praise about it imo! That's how wonderful this epic is! In my top 10 favorite Disney movies!

It might not be what you connect with Disney, but does that make automatically make it bad? Sadly, I think it would've been better recieved if any other company has distributed it. Hey at least it's much better than most of the 70's films, Pocahontas, The Hunchback, most of Pixar's etc.

You're right that we all have different opinions, but what do you define as "Disney Magic"? Is there a forumla or element you think Disney should always do that you like? Or does it just qualify as a film made by Disney you enjoy? Just curious, as you say films after Brother Bear "don't have Disney magic", without including much otherwise.

I don't mind if one doesn't like Chicken Little, but sadly, most seem to diss it just because they can, and give unlogical reasonings imo.

[slave2moonlight]

Well, ha, one thing no one can disagree on, Timon/Pumbaa fan, is that you really love Chicken Little. Even if the director came out and admitted he had made a bad movie in "Chicken Little," those who truly love it would argue the point. And, I can sympathize with that. I love the live-action "Popeye" movie. However, the idea that "Chicken Little" is better than Pocahontas or Hunchback, two of Disney's finest post-Walt animated features, has me at a crossroads between laughing and crying that anyone could feel that way. Plus, you said before that, that it was wrong to compare such vastly different films! For shame!

As for the PIXAR films, even if they seem to have similar formulas to other films, they don't all share the same formula with each other (in other words, they are not all about a character trying to find himself, with a buddy), and at least they each pick a formula and stick with it, ha. The biggest problem Chicken Little had was that it seemed a desperate effort to be a big hit, and in making its attempt, it seemed to borrow little things from other successful animated films to be a mish mash of good stuff. Apparently, most folks didn't like that, but a few did. I don't think it flopped just because of the Disney name and expectations. And, I don't see it as any sort of continuation of the style of "Emperor's New Groove." The humor in Emperor's New Groove was consistently more clever, original, and selective, even when spoofing other stuff. And, of course, liking and connecting with characters, that's the hardest thing to take out of the realm of being purely case by case. Some folks might feel that way, but I don't think the majority did. I found them to be pretty hack. If we want to compare it to Emperor's New Groove again, ENG felt like a true comedy. Chicken Little felt like a spoof of computer animated films, sci-fi, and films in general, and yet the moments when it attempted to be full of seriousness and heart countered that intent in a negative way.

In truth, I can see why some folks would feel that Disney has "lost their magic" currently, in the animated film department at least. To me, it's about being able to make an animated feature that is just a solid and pleasing film from beginning to end, and while they have made a few lately, they have made some that most folks didn't find very satisfying. The fact that any "not so good" ones might come from Disney seems wrong to many people, and they start going around saying "Disney has lost their magic." Trouble is, they'll say that on the first so-so film that comes out after a string of hits. They make one film that either isn't so good or, for some reason, doesn't hit it big (even if it IS good), and instantly it is decided that Disney has "lost their magic." Of course, it's not impossible for them to lose their direction, which I guess is sort of the same thing, but those moments usually pass, which is why I hate the finality of the "lost their magic" statement. However, another issue is the fact that people have varying tastes. Opinions significantly differ on the post-Lion King stuff. I think it was around Atlantis that people really started thinking Disney had lost it, but for many of us, Atlantis was the first disappointment from Disney feature animation.... EVER. Like I said though, at this point in time, I can see how people would get that feeling. I haven't heard good things about Home on the Range, most people don't like Chicken Little, people believe Disney has lost all interest in 2D (a medium that has a more personal touch, and therefore looks more full of "Disney magic"), and they release animated features they didn't even make, which is something Walt was very against and certainly doesn't add to the studio's esteem for those who truly pay attention to such things. With stuff like that hanging over them, plus a ton of direct to video sequels that have mainly bad reactions and often times are more obviously made purely for the money than others (some even squeaking through to the big screen) and the bubblegum take-over of the Disney Channel, it's kind of understandable that folks would feel that Disney has lost their magic, I guess. With so much of that sort of thing around, stuff like Brother Bear and Treasure Planet (or fill in your favorite recent Disney flick here) gets overlooked or ignored, or just assumed to be weak. It's sad, but, again, I'll reserve judgement until I see the next crop of truly DISNEY animated features. Let's hope they are not all overloaded with unselective pop-culture humor and sassy characters that take away the timelessness most of Disney's animated favorites have.

[Caballero Girl]

How one can like the dull and ear bleading soundtracks known as Pocahontas of The Hunchback is also beyond me.

Ouch. No offence, but was that really necessary? After all, Pocahontas and the Hunchback of Notre Dame weren't the films, let alone soundtracks, people were comparing to Chicken Little upon this thread.

As it happens, I love the soundtrack to the Hunchback of Notre Dame, the gargoyles' "A Guy Like You" being the only track which falls somewhat short in my opinion. I can't describe what I find so deeply entrancing about the rest of it, but I do, and besides, we're getting off topic here anyhow.

Have Disney lost their magic? Well, maybe not, but from an outsider's point of view (I still need to bring myself up to date with some of their more recent films, including Treasure Planet, Home on the Range and Chicken Little) it would be easy to get that impression. The shift away from 2D to 3D animation was probably their most disappointing move, given that there are enough 3D companies in the animation rat race already. Disney had carved out and retained their niche as a 2D animation studio for decades, and I found it somewhat saddening that they were so readily prepared to abandon it after a few rough years. With any luck, Enchanted and the Frog Princess will see to it that they don't.

Marketting is also an issue here, and I think it is one of Disney's current weak points. Lilo and Stitch was the only recent Disney film I can think of that had a truly inspired marketting campaign (inserting Stitch into scenes from various other Disney classics was a nice way of getting people's attention). Regardless of whether the movies themselves are any good, most of the trailers and publicity materials I've seen since really haven't clicked with me, which is probably why I've managed to put off seeing the films for so long.