Loss of Quality in the Platinum Editions?

[Pluto Region1]

If you are simply going to come on here and vent your feelings against them, whether in a moment of anger, or not - it is not in the spirit of the forum and it has no place. It is wrong of you to come on and criticise people for posting comments that don't fit in with your own personal worldview, and your comments just leave a sour taste I'm afraid.

What Escapay complained about is pretty much common forum etiquette. You are supposed to do some due diligence before coming in and asking a question. A forum is all about expressing opinions and I think to some degree the rant was a desperate attempt to stir up some interesting conversation around here. I've seen far ruder discussions and name-calling in the "off topics" section of this forum - this small rant pales when compared to some of that stuff.

[darth_deetoo]

It might be forum etiquette, but I think it's too easy to jump in and criticise new forum members and potentially give them the impression that this place is filled with stuck up, small minded geeks and it's actually not a nice place to visit. Emotive words I know, but instead of ranting, people could perhaps use some of that diligence they want newbies to show and be more selective in the posts they read and reply to.

I find the:- who is your favourite couple, who is your favourite princess, who is your favourite singer? type threads to be a dreadful bore, but I don't hijack those threads and have a rant about it.

No doubt some of my threads have offended. Last week I posted some pics of a new figurine I've got and I suspect some of you may have felt that was fluff. But I was so pleased with my purchase, I wanted to share my pleasure and excitement - and although on a different scale I'm sure that's how many of these kids feel when they see The Little Mermaid for the first time. How can you knock that kind of enthusiasm?

In terms of questions, I asked in the international forum recently about aspect ratios on Pocahontas II. Sadly I didn't get a reply, but the reason I asked wasn't laziness, I just don't have time to do a search through the Internet for obscure information I might never find. I work full time, study, as well as trying to pack in a large mix of hobbies - I just don't have time to spend hours searching.

All I'm saying is try and have a little patience with people, yes, forums can get tiresome - I've had enough rants on other forums in the past, but really, it's not worth alienating yourself with other members, just read what piques your interest and show a bit of discretion to what you reply to.

[ichabod]

What for example is the point of threads like "What did you just Eat" or "What movie did you just watch" or "What DVD did you just buy" or "What are you listening to right now" ???

Ah yes another area I forgot to mention! Well I don't mind these sorts of threads, I think they are a nice idea to have to share your latest goings on, however I think they are often misused. Take the ''What DVD did you just buy" thread, there are a few of us who take the time, to put a small pic of the cover, a lttle description of what it is, or what we thought if we've watched it yet, and if it's an obscure show a link to wikipedia, so that it's actually worth reading. So it does sadden me to click the link to see what people have been buying to see a post that just says "peter pan" in it.

What Escapay complained about is pretty much common forum etiquette. You are supposed to do some due diligence before coming in and asking a question.

Precisely, at the top of every forum page is a set of posting guidelines which has rules which says things like no one word answers and don't start new threads before searching to see if one already exists etc. There is even a rule that says no new threads about slipcovers! So it not just that Escapay and myself are annoyed for no reason, the things we are complaining about are all set down in the forum rules.

As I already mentioned in my original post, I can forgive the newcomers for breaking the rules, but when it's people who have been here for a while and still clearly haven't bothered to read or adhere to the rules is when it frustrates me.

[Pluto Region1]

It might be forum etiquette, but I think it's too easy to jump in and criticise new forum members and potentially give them the impression that this place is filled with stuck up, small minded geeks and it's actually not a nice place to visit. Emotive words I know, but instead of ranting, people could perhaps use some of that diligence they want newbies to show and be more selective in the posts they read and reply to.

Well I don't know that anyone has actually ranted at any of these newbies - Escapay's rant was a private one really, only to the rest of us. I haven't actually seen anyone ball anyone out - well, I take that back. One time I saw a established member be very rude to a newbie who came in and asked a question - yes, they probably could have found the answer out with a little digging around the website, but there was no call for the type of rude answer they were given. I saw the post, and then decided to let the other forum member know how rude that was. I don't think the newbie ever came back to UD after that (I'd have to look up the specific post etc for details). Anyway, it is rare that I will criticize anyone here unless I felt they really deserved it (in this case it was deserved, and only one other time did I do that and that was when reyquila went off in another thread and I felt had made other members here feel bad. But anyway....) if people are attacking each other in threads all the time it certainly creates a very bad scene - who wants to come to a community to be attacked? I sure don't. But this is ONE thing that I rarely see happen at UD. Of course there's seasoned members here who don't get along - I don't know the sources of these ongoing pitched battles (perhaps too many heated discussions of religion, politics etc in "Off Topic") and they seem to spill out into various threads - but I RARELY seen anyone be nasty to a newbie just because they don't know something.

I find the:- who is your favourite couple, who is your favourite princess, who is your favourite singer? type threads to be a dreadful bore, but I don't hijack those threads and have a rant about it.

Agree with you here but like I said it appears they create some sort of commraderie for the members here. Hey I even went into "what food did you just eat" and posted! but I only did it once and now that thread is like 23 pages long!

No doubt some of my threads have offended. Last week I posted some pics of a new figurine I've got and I suspect some of you may have felt that was fluff.

I wouldn't say that anyone is offended by such threads - I think what we are saying is that some of us can't see the value of certain threads, but certainly no one is offended by them. Look at Reyquila's recent slipcovers post - I mean, that's just good hearted fun - if you can have a thread about what is the latest DVD you bought, why not one that shows off your slipcovers. I don't find any posts here offensive (well with the exception of some of the off-topic rants we see go overboard when discussing politics, religion etc)

I just don't have time to do a search through the Internet for obscure information I might never find. I work full time, study, as well as trying to pack in a large mix of hobbies - I just don't have time to spend hours searching....All I'm saying is try and have a little patience with people.

Exactly my point. Sometimes we just don't have the time; I can totally empathize with this - I have the same problem (and newbies often are unfamiliar with the website and maybe just give up trying to search for info. But I also suspect alot of the questions are just testing the water to see if we are a friendly bunch).

I have asked many a dumb question that perhaps if I did a search using the search function, could have found the answer here in the forums buried away in some obscure post. But sometimes your search results return more threads and thus don't help you sort it out at all, so it is easier to just ask.

I wish that UD would perhaps make a sticky out of some of the brilliant analysis provided on film restoration and aspect ratios - it would take some work to cull that info - we've had a number of threads that discuss these topics - someone would have to take this on as a project. But once done that would make it a heck of a lot easier for myself and other people who seem to have alot of trouble with these topics, plus I think it would be a good resource for UD to just have on hand for website visitors in general, maybe on an established web page and just not as a sticky in the forums.

Precisely, at the top of every forum page is a set of posting guidelines which has rules which says things like no one word answers and don't start new threads before searching to see if one already exists etc. There is even a rule that says no new threads about slipcovers! So it not just that Escapay and myself are annoyed for no reason, the things we are complaining about are all set down in the forum rules.

As I already mentioned in my original post, I can forgive the newcomers for breaking the rules, but when it's people who have been here for a while and still clearly haven't bothered to read or adhere to the rules is when it frustrates me.

Ah, well I didn't even see that posting guidelines thingy - I should perhaps read that one myself! And I didn't realize you were including seasoned forum members as being offenders of this - but like I said, alot of it is a matter of how much time someone has to go looking for info... in that TLM thread there were numerous seasoned members violating the one sentence guidelines by posting stuff like "can't wait... only 3 days left" etc. I think it was all in good fun as so many members were so excited by the movie and wanted to share their enthusiasm but the result was a 65+ page thread that no sane person could read through if they needed to find out something specific, like whether or not there was going to be a gift set, etc.

BTW, I miss your hamburger avatar!

[PixarFan2006]

I agree that people overhyped the Little Mermaid DVD like it was going to be the greatest disney dvd ever. I think that holds the record for "biggest topic for a disney dvd ever" (there was a part 2 for crying out loud)

[Luke]

Just the fact that we're discussing the state of the forum in an intelligent manner shows there's hope. ichabod, your Live Action Film Discussion is one of the coolest (if not <i>the</i> coolest) ongoing series of threads at this place. Keep up the good work. I wish I could be contributing more to conversations, but so much time/effort is spent merely deleting/banning spammers and all kinds of writing for the rest of the site (you know, the type that get ignored by the newbies and those who seem like they might not ever outgrow newbie status).

Anyway, the answer isn't merely to get mad at the newbies or yell at them 'til you're blue in the face. I know the temptation is there, and I've succumbed to it myself. If we can instead lead by example: post thought-out comments to threads, spark interesting discussions on issues that matter, politely point out the uninformed that there exists a valuable resource of material on this site and forum.... perhaps this would do a lot of good. Some of the forum members whose contributions are the most substantial have become some of the least active posters. This only discourages others of the same making and if it continues, the newbie-types will have overrun the forum.

I don't think we want that. I'm not even sure the newbies want that. I will continue to take whatever efforts I can to encourage intelligent, substantial, and friendly forum conversations. Whether it's in making links to the forum more prominent (or less prominent, as the case might be), doing away with post counts, or just making the random new reply to a Posting Guidelines thread to get it attention. Hopefully, those who have been sharing genuine insight, whether for weeks or months or years (I hope and think you know who you are), will also help keep this forum great.

[Big Disney Fan]

Maybe the menus on Peter Pan will be done in 3D, much like Snow White. I certainly hope so.

[darth_deetoo]

One thing I do appreciate about this forum is that in the time I've been here so far (and look, I've passed 100 posts this weekend ), it never really seems to get so bad that you would need a moderator. I've seen forums where it's essential that they have moderators because the discussions get so heated. Unfortunately I've been dragged down into some of these arguments on some forums. But here at UD, we don't seem to have such a problem with that, and you don't very often see people flaming other people, which I'm pleased to say, and genuinely makes it a pleasure to visit the site.

[DisneyFreak5282]

To be honest, I find some of the comments above complaining about some of the posts to be unfriendly, rude and distasteful.

We all have our own reason's for visiting forums. A good, lively discussion on aspects of a film or DVD can be an enlightening and welcome read. That said, why shouldn't fans be able to come here just to share their love of Disney, and discuss their latest purchase, or what they thought of said DVD.

By it's very nature, a Disney forum is going to attract a lot of younger posters too, and so it's perhaps unreasonable to expect never to see posts of the 'I just got Little Mermaid and it's cool!' variety.

You just need to count to ten, take a deep breath and ignore these posts if they aren't to your taste. I only really look at posts which catch my eye and gain my interest. The vast majority of posts remain unopened by me. I just don't really understand the mentality of jumping up and down and having a rant just because posts something that you don't like.

Hear, hear! I always knew I liked you, darth_deetoo .


Anyhoo, back on topic. Not to sound repetitive, put IMHO, I think the reason why we are seeing a decline in Platinum Editions is because Disney wanted to give those classics that were never before on DVD (i.e. Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, Aladdin, Bambi and Cinderella) huge promotions and hours of extras (with the exclusion of the latter two, which didn't have a heck of alot like some other Platinums). Like other people have said, I think Disney didn't totally give 100% on the classics that have previously been released on DVD (Lady and the Tramp, The Little Mermaid, and probably Peter Pan and The Jungle Book), probably because the Average Joe would think 'Oh, I already have this on DVD, why should I waste more money?', but us collectors have high expectations.

Does anybody follow, or did that make no sense at all (I tend to ramble on )?

One thing I do appreciate about this forum is that in the time I've been here so far (and look, I've passed 100 posts this weekend ), it never really seems to get so bad that you would need a moderator. I've seen forums where it's essential that they have moderators because the discussions get so heated. Unfortunately I've been dragged down into some of these arguments on some forums. But here at UD, we don't seem to have such a problem with that, and you don't very often see people flaming other people, which I'm pleased to say, and genuinely makes it a pleasure to visit the site.

Exactly what I was thinking! I guess since DisneyWorld is the happiest place on Earth, UltimateDisney would be the happiest website on...internet?

[Big Disney Fan]

By it's very nature, a Disney forum is going to attract a lot of younger posters too, and so it's perhaps unreasonable to expect never to see posts of the 'I just got Little Mermaid and it's cool!' variety.

I agree with you here. To not see something like this every now and then is not only selfish and unreasonable, it's mutiny, that's what it is! Mutiny!

[Luke]

DisneyFreak5282,

One of the things talked about in the posting guidelines (I'm pretty sure) is that rather than posting twice in a row, you should edit your post and put in the second post as the second half of your post. It just makes it easier to read a thread and keep track of who said it, since the comments are linked together. The edit button appears in the top right corner of your post. I've already taken the liberty of combining your last two posts, but for future reference, hope that helps! Thanks.

[stitcharielbeast]

I think it was all Aladdin's fault they poured their hearts out on a fantastic dvd set that ended up underperforming in sales so they ended up slacking off on the other releases. and now they pushed Peter Pan early just so it could help promote a new Tinker Bell franchise...i'm not gonna be very happy when i pick up that set

and Disneyfreak, the fact that the other titles had already been previously released should be incentive to pack it with even more bonus features and make it really worth the upgrade, not the other way around.

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

So I guess we should rename this thread to "Loss of Quality in UD Forum Members"?

Anyway, it's be pointless to write a very long rant, as fortunately I've been beaten to it three times. So there's not much I'll add except I agree that while I don't mind a newbie who is a bit confused and has a few question at first, it really gets incredibly annoying when members who have been here for months(there are quite a few, but won't name them) and still post the same fluffiness post after post.

Oh and finally, I'd also like to add, as of November 19th 2006, I proudly have yet to buy, and have absolutely no desire, to ever buy "The Little Mermaid: Platinum Edition".

[Escapay]

Oh and finally, I'd also like to add, as of November 19th 2006, I proudly have yet to buy, and have absolutely no desire, to ever buy "The Little Mermaid: Platinum Edition".

[puts on imitation cap]Then you're not a true Disney fan! Your collection speaks for you and if you don't have TLM: PE, you're nowhere near as true a Disney fan as anyone else who has it! PS, you're jealous, admit it! It's okay to be jealous of me, everyone is![/takes off imitation cap]



Seriously though, I'm glad you saved your money. I had hoped that the documentary would justify my buying the movie the day it came out, but I finally watched it last night, and it was a huge letdown and turned out to be 45 minutes of stuff I already knew in some form or another. Totally wasn't worth it, but at least I can say I have yet another Platinum-in-name-only DVD set. Similarly, I don't particularly like Cleopatra (with Liz Taylor, Rex Harrison, Richard Burton), but have the 3-disc edition simply for the excellent 2-hour documentary.

Anyways, to hopefully bring this fully back on topic.

The lack of quality in Platinum Editions after the spectacular-but-underselling release of Aladdin:

1. DVDs are too mainstream now for Disney to justify having a family-friendly edition and an uber-collector's edition, it's simply cheaper to put the best of both into one release and call it a day.

In 1999, Disney had *just* joined the DVD bandwagon with their Animated Classics, but released horribly over-priced and under-stuffed discs that went away after two months. 2000 brought the good-on-paper-bad-on-shelves Gold Collection that again was overpriced and could hardly justify an upgrade from VHS. However, like laserdisc, Disney knew there would be a collector's market out there, and gave us truly kickass stuff like the 2-disc CE's (Tarzan, TENG, Dinosaur, A Bug's Life, Atlantis) and totally awesome boxsets like Fantasia Anthology and Ultimate Toy Box. Platinum used to mean something for releases like Snow White and Beauty and the Beast.

Then, DVD got big. Like, really big. I think they pinpoint 2003 as *the* year when DVD finally became the big mainstream thing it is now. 2003 was when more people would pick up a DVD over the VHS, when the studios finally had a stronghold on the consumers that they'd take whatever they'd give to them.

So Disney, sensing this, started slacking. They gave us smaller releases for Lilo & Stitch and Treasure Planet. They offered a complicated navigation system for The Lion King, believing it to be creative. They figured 45-50 minutes was the cut-off time for any documentary to be made for DVD. And what did that leave us? Pretty good releases, but few and far between. When's the next time we'll see a non-Platinum title get a two-disc set? When's the next time we'll see a documentary on a Disney disc go beyond 60 minutes?

Compare a new Disney release from 2006 to that of 2002. What's changed? Less animation in the menus. Less substantial bonus features. Trailers disappear. Commentaries on anything before the 1980s might as well be non-existant. FastPlay and EasyFind (which I have nothing against except being a total insult to the intelligence of the viewer).

The days of a Vault Disney release, two-disc special edition (non-Platinum), and even solid single-disc editions are gone. After all, Disney's not marketing it just for the families on one side (a nice single-disc fluffy edition with fluffier slipcover) and collectors on the other (a packed multi-disc set in a sturdy box with a book). It's easier for them just to put the two together and expect it to be distributed peacefully between the two parties.

2. With high-definition looming ahead, Disney's saving good stuff for a future release.

Many are already saying that either one format wins, or both lose, or that one wins but it won't be as big as DVD, and more like laserdisc. I'm pretty sure Disney's expecting all those options, and to prepare for a reason to upgrade, we're not seeing the *good stuff* until there's a definite chance that it'll be worth putting out on market in the dominant format. Not much to say here because this idea is fairly new. After all, in 2001, many expected Snow White to be the be-all end-all release of the film, and yet here we've got The Little Mermaid with barely less than half the material that Snow White has, and many speculate it's because they'll save the good stuff for Blu-Ray. Or, simply for a DVD re-release in the chance that neither Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is a success, and Disney will need a reason for 2011 DVD consumers to upgrade from the old 2006 DVDs.

3. The average joe who likely outnumber us collectors 10 to one don't give a rat's ass about bonus features.

It's sad, but true. Many people simply don't care for bonus features. And so, Disney decides to cater to many people rather than uber-collectors. It's cheaper that way. So what do we get? Games. Talking Head shortform documentaries. Deleted Scenes. A report once found out that the bonus feature of choice is the deleted scenes, which is why you'll often see those marketed first and listed first on the back of cases. And why smaller releases only seem to have them as a bonus feature. Average Joe doesn't want an in-depth commentary or a 90-minute look behind the scenes. He wants the movie and what was cut from the movie, regardless if it was necessary or unnecessary.

Escapay

[Simba3]

Very insightful Escapay, I enjoyed reading your views on the reasoning behind the loss of quality in the Platinum Editions. I have noticed the declining quality of the Disney Platinum Edition releases over the years but never really bothered to wonder WHY they were declining in quality. Your ideas are very well thought out and make a whole lot of sense. It is unfortunate reading your post and agreeing with most of what you have to say. The in-depth commentary and behind the scenes looks are the very best part of the earlier Platinum releases. I purchased The Little Mermaid: Platinum Edition the day it was released and I was very happy with my purchase since I did not yet own the movie on DVD yet. However, I will completely agree that the bonus features were quite pale in comparison to the ones found on the Platinum Editions of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Bambi, or Aladdin. Sadly enough, I think there is a lot of truth to what you have said, and unfortunately some of the true Disney DVD lovers are suffering a HUGE loss of quality in the bonus features on the Platinum Editions.

[darth_deetoo]

The thing is, it isn't just Disney, it's a general decline in quality of DVD overall. The fact that DVD has become so mainstream has been a contributing factor, but I remember reading about how contributors such as actors were starting to demand fee's for DVD features, so there had been a move away from specially produced documentaries on a lot of movies, replacing them with the EPK's produced to market films. Unfortunately it simply comes down to cost, and greed.

[Lazario]

So, I have come to the conclusion that even though all the Platinum Edition have lessened in quality since Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, I think that by releasing two Platinum Editions a year Disney got to spend less time on each DVD, those DVDs suffered

I have a tiny observation - as someone who doesn't own any Disney (Walt Disney Pictures) DVDs - you're right that they did release 2 Platinums a year (we all knew that). But what is a Platinum Edition anyway? A 2 disc DVD loaded with supplements. Hasn't Disney been doing that all along, even before Platinum? Only without the 'cool,' unique name? With Collector's Editions, Anniversary Editions, a Masterpiece Edition, and larger Special Editions?

Anyway - I guess it all comes down to Budget.

I, too, love seeing CG menus. I find Disney characters and locales fascinating in CG, even if most hate them.

Really? Then I guess that explains why Disney stopped taking so much time out for them.

Bambi's infamously grim deleted scenes were nowhere to be found on its disc.

I wish I hadn't read that. Because that really pisses me off. Who the hell do these Sleep With Their Heads Packed In Ice imbeciles think they're sparing? For goodness' sake - every kid in America knows violence, sadness, and unpleasantness (they usually have a Full-Working Knowledge of All Three by the end of their very first day at school). If Disney really wanted to be responsible - why the hell don't they just stick a Freaking Disclaimer note as an insert in the inside case flap? Deleted Scenes May Contain Some Sensitive Subject Matter Potentially Unsuitable for Children 10 Years of Age and Younger. HOW HARD IS THAT? How much does that cost? A couple bucks! Some paper, some ink. Not impossible, not even difficult.

I see a lot of complaints about "The Lion King"s PE but I thought it was great, and I'm a HUGE "Lion King" fan.

You know the term 'For Die-Hard Fans Only'? Well I think most people think that that means, the most extensive and thorough study / behind the scenes info and breakdown of the project... when that's the product attached to the phrase. But, I think when they say that, they mean the Casual DVD consumer expects a little more. That may not make as much sense as if they were switched backward, but I think that's what they mean. More bonus features, mean Casual DVD consumer has more to choose from, while the Die-Hard-ers were meant to mull every detail over. Of course - I would never say the Die Hard fans have to suck on This or That release while the Casual consumer deserves more. Anyway... I think in this case - the casual Lion King fans wanted more than the Platinum Edition delivered as well.

You appear to care a lot about computer enhanced dvd menus.... why? It's the bonus features, right?

It's part of the Presentation. It heightens the Disc's replay value, even if it's just the Menus.

I'm usually pissed off when they don't include original theatrical trailers and poster artwork.

God, me too. It's a hugely important part of not just the Features' nostalgia value, but it's of Historical Importance for the purpose of documenting classic Disney Advertising / Promotion.

I think that more disney fans should get out and rent or buy more of the live action films and TV shows so that we can all start commenting and debating and getting excited about the unrealesed titles of that section of the company's catalouge. Otherwise Escapy (and others) will be really bored with the fourm

Amen to that!

Or you could just bitterly eat seafood in protest.

But where does one go to find Mermaid Meat??

[Wonderlicious]

Or you could just bitterly eat seafood in protest.

But where does one go to find Mermaid Meat??

Try a supermarket in Cape Cod. Getting Mermaid Meat would be a cod caper after all!

[Beastboyravenz]

You know what I really hate about Disney's conduct towards the Platinum Editin DVD's is that they're more concerned of getting a new generation of fans, rather than please those who really really like their movies. Disney always seems to compromise the integrity and originality of their classic films, in order to fix any form of contriversy or issue that may set their sale records downhill. For once I would love to see Disney worry more of the movie as a whole and the people who truly care for them, by leaving the films intact as they should be. Why not be faithfull to all the true Animated Classic Fans? Why try to please a child who knows nothing of the movie that won't appreciate the beauty of the artwork and passion that goes into making these films. I just don't get it.

For instance anime movies are far superior when it comes to presentation. They don't care if you're a kid or an adult. They release their films as they were originally made, they never re-edit or go back and add something that they think would impress "new audiences". They're not worried of wether they can catch a whole new generation of viewers, they're more concerned with delivering the best presentation, rather than worrying over contriversy issues. Their faifthfull to their viewers and fans, and they respect us enough to do that. You can see an Anime movie that may cause a stir, but never will the movie makers of that certain film go back and change it just because someone didn't approve. You either like the movie with it's flaws or don't like it all, but the film will never be compromised and deprived from it's originality (unless it's released here in the US by some retarded company).

Disney needs to toughen and be strict in the "originality" area and stop changing and ruining their most treasured films.

[ichabod]

2. With high-definition looming ahead, Disney's saving good stuff for a future release.

You know what they say about great minds thinking alike! I made a similar suggestion a while back that I had completely forgotten about here: http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... light=ploy

and reading it back I'd tend to still think it's still a possible reason for the decreasing effort.