Disney Princess Debate

[blackcauldron85]

Don't forget that Tinker Bell has a doll in the Princess line, too. Maybe later on in the Fairy series- who knows- she may come to be a princess, but certainly now, she's not one. Both Esmeralda and Mulan are married to military men, and they both have dolls in the Princess line, even though they're not princesses (but maybe they're "princesses" of the military, since they married generals/captains. Maybe...
Eilonwy most certainly is a princess, and it's unfortunate that Disney has forgotten about her...
I'm not sure how many of you have read this (there are 2 versions out there), but it's a funny piece of fan-fiction that mentions how forgotten Eilonwy is...

http://www.humournet.com/collage.archiv ... age118.txt

[Wonderlicious]

As for the Alice thing, I always had the impression that she was born into royalty because there's a castle in the distance at the end of the movie. Wasn't she royalty in Lewis Carrol's book (can't remember)?

That isn't a castle, but a church. A lot of churches in the UK have Big Ben-esque steeples like that. Here are some examples.

As for being royalty in the book, she kinda becomes a queen in Through the Looking Glass. In that story, a lot of the world at the other side of the mirror is set out like a chess board, and Alice passes through many areas as a white pawn, along the way meeting various characters, some of whom are chess pieces. Not being a chess aficionado, I don't know much about the game, but apparently if a pawn makes it to the other side of the board in one piece, then it becomes a queen. Alice makes it to the other side, and hence becomes a queen, which results in a disastrous banquet. And as this particular concept isn't even covered in Disney's Alice in Wonderland, I wouldn't even bother claiming that she's a princess for that reason. I have seen Alice getting brushed together with the other princesses at times (I remember seeing some Alice merchandise in the Disney Store onece on the Princess shelf and she has songs on the Princess Sing Along Songs), but so has Tinkerbell and Mulan, and as others have said, the Princess line should really be called "Disney's Pretty Heroines" line, as the proclamations of royalty are done rather liberally.

[Dottie]

Don't forget that Tinker Bell has a doll in the Princess line, too. Maybe later on in the Fairy series- who knows- she may come to be a princess, but certainly now, she's not one. Both Esmeralda and Mulan are married to military men, and they both have dolls in the Princess line, even though they're not princesses (but maybe they're "princesses" of the military, since they married generals/captains. Maybe...
Eilonwy most certainly is a princess, and it's unfortunate that Disney has forgotten about her...
I'm not sure how many of you have read this (there are 2 versions out there), but it's a funny piece of fan-fiction that mentions how forgotten Eilonwy is...

http://www.humournet.com/collage.archiv ... age118.txt

About Eilonwy: Yes, she definitely is a princessm but since Disney wants to forget that the Black Cauldron was ever made they would never think about adding her to the Princess line. Sad, but that's how it is. And she's kind of too young to be in the line. Ariel, Belle and the others seem to be more mature than Eilonwy. She's more like a kid.

[MichaeLeah]

I think they should add Mary Blair to the princess line. She can be "the artist formerly known as Princess."

[akhenaten]

they should add a cartoon version of princess mia and elizabeth swann in the princess line..and also the princess from enchanted. that'd be great...'princess' elizabeth.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

After watching a few movies I have these new characters to add to the list


Live Action Princesses

Mia - She's Princess/Queen of Genovia



Possible Princess List *New Additions*

Tiger Lily - her dad's Chief

[slave2moonlight]

Actually, I don't think Bambi was ever referred to as a King. Even his father was only called Prince of the forest. Therefore, Faline would be a princess. Also, Kiara wouldn't be a Queen until her parents died, so she is also a princess. However, I really don't suggest that I want to see animals in the Princess line.

What I WOULD love is for them to include Eilonwy. I believe she's the best thing about "The Black Cauldron," which was a good flick, but not as good as a Disney animated feature should be.

In my opinion, the only ones (besides Kiara and Faline) that count as princesses are the following, and I'd love to see some of them added to the line (some more than others); and, yes, I feel all those included should be literal princesses (and, yes, I may have forgotten someone that hasn't been mentioned):

Ariel and her sisters
Belle
Cinderella
Jasmine
Eilonwy
Snow White
Calla (Gummi Bears)
Pocahontas
Tiger Lily
Aurora
Kida (though I'm not a fan of hers)

And, it's possible that Esmerelda is considered a Gypsy Princess. Also, I haven't delved deeply into the Fairies books yet, so I don't recall if I've heard that Tink is a princess or not... I love Tink though, so I love when she is included in anything... But it should only be real princesses...

[Aladdin from Agrabah]

Meg: married to Hercules, which makes her a Demi-Godess by marriage

Technically, she wouldn't even be a Demi-Goddess. There are Gods/Goddesses and Demi-Gods/Demi-Goddesses. Essentially what a God/Goddess is is an immortal with powers. Demi-Gods/Demi-Goddesses usually were either the offspring of a God and a Mortal (usually resulting in a mortal with godlike powers), or they were a "lesser" god, like tree spirits or muses. Megara was a full-blown mortal, and being with Hercules didn't change her mortality, so she's not even a Demi-Goddess.

Escapay

According to the (original) Greek Mythology, Megara was the daughter of Kreon, King of Thebes. Considering that Disney didn't let us know anything about Meg's family, I think it's acceptable to fill this "gap" from the "original" Megara. So Megara is undoubtly a Princess. The Princess of Thebes. As for Disney's Megara, everyone who wants to consider her a princess has the right to do it, since the Greek Mythology says so, and Disney says nothing about her routes. So, from this point of view, she was born a princess and doesn't need Herc to be a semi-godess or a royalty. She was born royalty. Did I forget to mention something? Oh, yes! MEG ROCKS!!!

[Escapay]

Technically, she wouldn't even be a Demi-Goddess. There are Gods/Goddesses and Demi-Gods/Demi-Goddesses. Essentially what a God/Goddess is is an immortal with powers. Demi-Gods/Demi-Goddesses usually were either the offspring of a God and a Mortal (usually resulting in a mortal with godlike powers), or they were a "lesser" god, like tree spirits or muses. Megara was a full-blown mortal, and being with Hercules didn't change her mortality, so she's not even a Demi-Goddess.

Escapay

According to the (original) Greek Mythology, Megara was the daughter of Kreon, King of Thebes. Considering that Disney didn't let us know anything about Meg's family, I think it's acceptable to fill this "gap" from the "original" Megara. So Megara is undoubtly a Princess. The Princess of Thebes.

I understand of course that Meg is from royalty, but Chernabog_Rocks was saying that she was also a Demi-Goddess, which I said she wasn't. Was making no argument that she wasn't a princess, just that she wasn't a demi-goddess.

Escapay

[Aladdin from Agrabah]

I understand of course that Meg is from royalty, but Chernabog_Rocks was saying that she was also a Demi-Goddess, which I said she wasn't. Was making no argument that she wasn't a princess, just that she wasn't a demi-goddess.

Escapay

Of course, but Chernabog_Rocks tried to find a reason why Meg could be a royalty by "semi-godess-ize" her without knowing the fact that the original Megara was actually a princess. I didn't disagree with you, I just added some more information about her.I tried to point out that Meg doesn't have to marry Herc to be anything more that a common girl because she was born a royalty.

[slave2moonlight]

I know that Meg was in at least one episode of the TV series, though I don't remember it well. That may give more info on the Disney version of Megara, and may put her in or out more definitely, since the show is a midquel of sorts.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

actually Slave2moonlight, that episode is the one that I was thinking of when I put Meg in the list. Just to clarify a little bit, I was saying Meg is a demi-godess who has powers like the gods, I was saying she has that title, just like Mulan has the title of Captain when she married Shang, I know she isn't a demi-goddess by blood or anything just through title alone. Thanks for the info Aladdin from Agrabah for more info on Meg.


So I don't know much about Calla from the Gummi Bears so I'll add her under the Official List, unless she belongs somewhere else.

Official Princess List New Additions

Calla - From the Gummi bears, any info will be appreciated

[Escapay]

Just to clarify a little bit, I was saying Meg is a demi-godess who has powers like the gods, I was saying she has that title, just like Mulan has the title of Captain when she married Shang, I know she isn't a demi-goddess by blood or anything just through title alone.

But even so, "Demi-Goddess" isn't a title either. Megara is a full-blown human, no powers, no blood-ties to any gods or demi-gods, so even if she does marry Herc (who in the Disney version would qualify as a demi-god since he was originally a god, but is now a mortal with godlike powers), she doesn't gain a title as Demi-Goddess. It'd be like saying that a black woman can now be considered a white one if she marries a white guy.

Escapay

[slave2moonlight]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Meg was never a demi-god and wouldn't become one by marriage.

Anyways, as for Calla, she was the daughter of King Gregor, who was king of Dunwyn. She is usually referred to as Princess Calla. Definitely, a princess by birth.

I believe there was also a bratty princess rival in later episodes of the show. Though, to be honest, I'm not sure if she was a princess or carried some other title.

Then, there was also the very hot Scottish princess from Gargoyles... And how about Princess Atta from A Bug's Life? Ha. And Princess Dot. Yes, I think PIXAR should count as Disney, and so should Gargoyles, though I don't really feel the need of adding animal princesses to the Princess line, like Faline, Kiara, Atta, or Dot...

[Chernabog_Rocks]

thanks for the info on Calla, I don't really remember the Gummi Bears, except that I used to watch it all the time when I was younger. As for Pixar I never really thought about adding Atta or Dot, so I'll make a special Pixar section just for them

Pixar Princesses

Atta - A Bugs Life
Dot - A Bugs Life

As far as the whole Meg thing, I figured that taking on the title of Demi-Godess would be the equivalent of taking on someones last name, plus it's pure speclation on my behalf, my family and lots of my friends agree with her being one, but it's really a matter of opinion in the end, so there's really no right or wrong answer.

[Disney Duster]

You know, there's something very confusing about this line. On the Sing-Along Songs DVDs, Alice, Ella, and Maid Marian have been included. Alice is no princess, Ella isn't animated, and Maid Marian is an animal. This would imply that all you have to do is be female and belong to Disney to be a Disney Princess! So when Disney starts promoting Robin Hood on DVD, will they say something like, "Featuring one of the rarely seen Disney Princesses, Maid Marian!"? I've actually seen her in some books that focus on Disney Princesses.

Anyway, with Esmeralda, Alice, and many other heroines not being princesses, I don't think you have to be a princess. Disney is just including them under the banner to get money from that rare little kid who's favorite character is Alice. But Disney shouldn't do this. Rather, I propose that Disney just keep the line to actual princesses, and perhaps do a separate line for the heroines who aren't.

Think about it: There are the girls who like dressing up in poofy gowns and imagine living in castles and getting treated like royalty. Then there's completely different girls who like cool, practical outfits to be active in, and would prefer to go out on adventures instead of stay in a castle being waited on. So completely different lines are kind of neccesary, even though Jasmine is a reluctant princess of sorts.

Disney may say, "Every girl is a princess!", but some girls don't want to be labeled a princess. They identify the term with "spoiled" or "delicate" when they would rather be daring and strong, perhaps even tough.

Keep in mind, I'm a boy so...I can't speak for girls. But I know this is how some girls feel.

[slave2moonlight]

Well, I don't claim to know if Meg is a princess or not. Maybe I'd have a more solid opinion if I had seen her TV show episode(s) more recently.

However, on the demi-god thing, as others have stated, that is not a mere "title." It's more like a race or species. You don't just become one by marriage. If that were so, Hercules could have become a god and married Meg, making her a goddess by marriage. But it doesn't work that way. He had to stay a demi-god if he was going to live on Earth with a human bride. But, it doesn't make her a demi-goddess. Anyways, it's not important here, since a demi-goddess is not a princess...

[Chernabog_Rocks]

well, I couldn't think of anything to put for Meg so I just put up my friends opinion, and I agreed with it to, so it was better than, Civilian, or main female character, Spice is the variety of life. I agree Disney should make a seperate banner for the non-princess types like Esmerelda and Meg, kinda like a tomboy line or something.

[myr_heille]

Maybe a "Heroine" line would be appropriate. I think that term is fitting with what Disney Duster describes. And I'm not sure about this because I don't follow marketing that much - but is there a "Hero" line, with Aladdin and Hercules and Tarzan and pretty much all the boys? I think it would be a good counterpart.

[Luke]

You know, there's something very confusing about this line. On the Sing-Along Songs DVDs, Alice, Ella, and Maid Marian have been included.

Technically, Ella hasn't been included. Only a pop song from her movie, which references a whole bunch of Disney princesses (who are dutifully shown). But ya, regarding Alice and Maid Marian...go figure.