Disney Princess Debate

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Okay, so I've noticed that theres this whole debate on who should be a "Princess" and who shouldn't be, as we know there's the whole Snow White, Cinderella, Jasmine, Aurora, Belle and Ariel lineup of "Official" Princesses, so I thought I would put a list of the all the girls I've seen be debated over and why they are or arent an "Official" Princess all of this is in the opinions of myself and my sister Jess.

Here are who we consider Official Princesses, plus a family member to back up the reason why it's marriage or birth

Snow White: Princess through birth - unknown mom who's deceased?
Cinderella: Princess through marriage - Prince Charming
Aurora: Princess by birth - King Stefan
Maid Marion: Princess by blood = King Richard
Princess Eilowny: Princess through birth - unknown parents (again)
Ariel and her sisters: Princesses through birth - King Triton
Belle: Princess through marriage - Beast
Jasmine: Princess through birth - The Sultan
Pocahontas: Princess through birth = Chief Powahtan
Princess Kidagakash - Princess through birth - King Kashekim

Now heres the rest of the lovely ladies and where we stand on them

Esmerelda: Gypsy, could be considered a Princess of the Gypsy's
Jane Porter: Englishwoman, no evidence of royalty in family
Mulan: married to Captain Shang, not married or born to royalty
Meg: married to Hercules, which might her a Demi-Godess by marriage
Nala: Technically a Queen now, through marriage to Simba
Kiara: Technically a Queen now also through blood though unlike her mom
Faline: Married to Bambi, so she would be Queen of the Forest technically
Alice: Sister to a governess, Princess of Heart in Kingdom Hearts

So thats all for now, I'll be back in a bit with some brief bio's when I've found a little more info, to back up what I've just posted

[Disney-Fan]

Mulan: married to Captain Shang, not married or born to royalty

Thus not a princess at all.
BTW, you also forgot Kida who is undoubtedly a princess.

[Super Aurora]

Snow White: Princess through birth - unknown mom who's deceased?
Cinderella: Princess through marriage - Prince Charming
Aurora: Princess by birth - King Stefan
Alice: Princess by blood. - Her sister? unknown parents (as usual)
Maid Marion: Princess by blood = King Richard
Princess Eilowny: Princess through birth - unknown parents (again)
Ariel and her sisters: Princesses through birth - King Triton

What the hell? When or where did it say Alice was a princess????? Kingdom Hearts does not count as they screwed that up too.

Maid Marion is King Richard's neice. Can't be a princess as she would have to be his daughter. Even though one's a lion and the other is a fox

BTW, you also forgot Kida who is undoubtedly a princess.

He has her already. Under Kidagakash

[Caballero Girl]

Alice: Princess by blood. - Her sister? unknown parents (as usual)

Don't mean to criticise, but is Alice a princess? I know that we never really learn a great deal about her family and home life, other than the fact that she has an older sister who home-schools her, and a pet cat Dinah, but I find the notion of her being royalty a bit of a far stretch. It's why I was genuinely surprised when I saw her in the official Disney Princess range.

I have one really nagging doubt (among other things)...if Alice was a princess, wouldn't she have brought it up at some point during her confrontation with the Queen of Hearts? (Of course, knowing the Queen, it probably wouldn't have gone in her favour, but still...)

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Well, as far as Alice goes, I've considered her a princess becuase of several reasons

1) She's studying with a Governess in the opening of the movie, who is also her sister from what I've been told

2) Kingdom Hearts has her down as a Princess of Heart, now like I said these are IMO and my friends opinion.


Now although they don't say it outloud that she's a princess, it is heavily hinted I believe that she is

[DisneyRoyalty]

I would never of thought of Alice as a princess. She is simply a little girl who falls down the rabbit hole. Kingdom Hearts did make her one of the "Seven Princesses of Heart" but I don't know why they just didn't use ARIEL who really was a princess. They had an Atlantica world, but Ariel was never one of the Princesses of Heart that needed to be rescued.

Mulan is also not a "Princess" but she is on the official Disney Princess website, while Alice is not. Mulan was a heroine, and a savior but never royal.

Alot of people (myself included) say that the term "Princess" is used to mean a role model for young girls. Since many of the Disney heroines tend to be actual Princesses, the term became a catch-all phrase for the popular Disney Females.

[Super Aurora]

I would never of thought of Alice as a princess. She is simply a little girl who falls down the rabbit hole. Kingdom Hearts did make her one of the "Seven Princesses of Heart" but I don't know why they just didn't use ARIEL who really was a princess. They had an Atlantica world, but Ariel was never one of the Princesses of Heart that needed to be rescued.

Mulan is also not a "Princess" but she is on the official Disney Princess website, while Alice is not. Mulan was a heroine, and a savior but never royal.

Alot of people (myself included) say that the term "Princess" is used to mean a role model for young girls. Since many of the Disney heroines tend to be actual Princesses, the term became a catch-all phrase for the popular Disney Females.

I found that funny as the best role model for girls and even women is Esmeralda. But she's not a "princess" so she's nelegated.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Well as far as Ariel in Kingdom Hearts, I think it might have to do with the fact she's a mermaid, and plus in Kingdom Hearts all of the worlds were just copys of the movie storyline altered to include Sora and Co.

[Wonderlicious]

1) She's studying with a Governess in the opening of the movie, who is also her sister from what I've been told

I feel that I should add that many rich-ish families in Europe during the 19th to early 20th century had governesses, not just the royal families.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

I think what does it for me is the way she's portrayed, and the way she acts, it just reminds me of a princess, but like I said, these are my opinions, and my friends, I figured that Alice as a princess would be the major topic in this discussion. But the main reason I made this topic is because a lot of ppl. seem to complain about Esmerelda and other's not getting attention, so I thought I'd point out what I noticed and what my friend saw as far as why they are considered princesses or why they aren't. But all in all to me it's kind of like a Popularity Contest

[Escapay]

Snow White: Princess through birth - unknown mom who's deceased?
Cinderella: Princess through marriage - Prince Charming
Aurora: Princess by birth - King Stefan
Maid Marion: Princess by blood = King Richard
Princess Eilowny: Princess through birth - unknown parents (again)
Ariel and her sisters: Princesses through birth - King Triton
Belle: Princess through marriage - Beast
Jasmine: Princess through birth - The Sultan
Pocahontas: Princess through birth = Chief Powahtan
Princess Kidagakash - Princess through birth - King Kashekim

These are acceptable.

Alice: Princess by blood. - Her sister? unknown parents (as usual)

This makes no sense at all as there are no signs towards being of any royal house within the movie. (I personally do not count anything in Kingdom Hearts as nobody outside of a gamer's universe would even know of the game).

Meg: married to Hercules, which makes her a Demi-Godess by marriage

Technically, she wouldn't even be a Demi-Goddess. There are Gods/Goddesses and Demi-Gods/Demi-Goddesses. Essentially what a God/Goddess is is an immortal with powers. Demi-Gods/Demi-Goddesses usually were either the offspring of a God and a Mortal (usually resulting in a mortal with godlike powers), or they were a "lesser" god, like tree spirits or muses. Megara was a full-blown mortal, and being with Hercules didn't change her mortality, so she's not even a Demi-Goddess.

Escapay

[pinkrenata]

Alice is most definitely not a princess. If you would like more concrete proof (other than the fact that she is at no point labeled as such), you can also look to Lewis Carroll's original inspiration for the character, Alice Liddell ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Liddell ). I think that classifying Alice as a princess completely takes away from the orignal premise, which is the very extraordinary adventures of a very <i>ordinary</i> girl.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Okay, I get it Alice isn't a Princess, when I made this topic earlier I made it with the intent to clear up as much as I could, I've edited it now so that she isn't one, but everyone else complains when Esmerelda or Meg doesnt get recognized as a Princess so they're not much diff. from Alice. Now onto Meg, I assumed she would be considered one through marriage not blood. But anyways I've made any changes neccesary, so is there anything else out of place that you've noticed ASIDE from Alice?

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Okay, so after much debating here is where we stand on things now, the bio's are still in progress due to lack of energy


Snow White: Princess through birth - unknown mom who's deceased?
Cinderella: Princess through marriage - Prince Charming
Aurora: Princess by birth - King Stefan
Maid Marion: Princess by blood = King Richard
Princess Eilowny: Princess through birth - unknown parents (again)
Ariel and her sisters: Princesses through birth - King Triton
Belle: Princess through marriage - Beast
Jasmine: Princess through birth - The Sultan
Pocahontas: Princess through birth = Chief Powahtan
Princess Kidagakash - Princess through birth - King Kashekim

Now heres the rest of the lovely ladies and where we stand on them

Esmerelda: Gypsy, could be considered a Princess of the Gypsy's
Jane Porter: Englishwoman, no evidence of royalty in family
Mulan: married to Captain Shang, not married or born to royalty
Meg: married to Hercules, which might her a Demi-Godess by marriage
Nala: Technically a Queen now, through marriage to Simba
Kiara: Technically a Queen now also through blood though unlike her mom
Faline: Married to Bambi, so she would be Queen of the Forest technically
Shanti - Mowgli's friend in the Man Village and possible crush?

Possible Princesses

Alice: Sister to a governess, Princess of Heart in Kingdom Hearts

and heres a list of some Queens who were once Princesses

Kida's Mother - Don't remember her name though
Queen Sarabi - Simba's mother
Queen Kiara - She's a princess in the beginning, tech. Queen now
Queen Nala - Simba's wife, and childhood friend
Queen Kida - In Atlantis: Milo's Return Kida has moved up to Queen
Aurora's Mother - Don't rember her name, isn't it Lillian?

So there we go, I still stand on Meg being a Demi-Godess since I said above that it's through Marriage only NOT BLOOD. My Sister Jess would like me to remind everyone that these are only our opinions, and we welcome all opinions and changes will be made to suit them

[RachelSmachel]

I'm not sure Meg is really even a demi-goddess though. After all, Herc did give up his powers to be with her. Not to mention the points Escapay brought up.

[Caballero Girl]

Interestingly, Megara was indeed a princess in the original Greek myth, since she was daughter to the King of Thebes, but given that Disney gave her a vastly different back-story, I guess that's kinda irrelevent.

My personal theory upon why the official Disney "Princess" range generally fails to acknowledge the existence of Meg and Esmerelda, whilst still including some dubious other contenders, is because they both come from pretty much of the bottom of the social ladder in their worlds. IMO, it makes them all the more noble and appealling, given that they remain strong-willed, courageous characters who've had to fight for everything they have, but Disney are evidentally quite keen to focus upon the female characters who have a little more glitz and glamour about them, whether royal blood truly runs in their veins or not.

[The Merman]

The debate is not about whom is or is not a princess, the confusion and irritation was about Mulan being accepted as a Disney Princess. How do we know? Because she is among the Disney Princesses on the Disney website. Alice is not on the website because she is not of royal birth or royal through marriage.

Because Esmeralda is not a disney princess dont mean she is not merchendised. I have seen a lot of Esmeralda costumes and jewlery boxes ect. She does have a doll that is in the Princess doll line (but that is for the easy factor) , but she is not in the Disney Princess box set (even though all the other princesses are in it).

[Disney's Divinity]

I think people are forgetting that "Disney Princesses" is just a brand name. It's just an easy well to sell the most popular leading ladies. You don't see Kida, Eilonwy, Alice or Maid Marian in this group because they wouldn't sell nearly as well as the others. It isn't about who is and who is not an actual princess.

As for the Alice thing, I always had the impression that she was born into royalty because there's a castle in the distance at the end of the movie. Wasn't she royalty in Lewis Carrol's book (can't remember)?

[yamiiguy]

As for the Alice thing, I always had the impression that she was born into royalty because there's a castle in the distance at the end of the movie. Wasn't she royalty in Lewis Carrol's book (can't remember)?

nope, check wikipedia

[2099net]

IAs for the Alice thing, I always had the impression that she was born into royalty because there's a castle in the distance at the end of the movie. Wasn't she royalty in Lewis Carrol's book (can't remember)?

I'm not sure it was a castle, and even if it was, there's castles all over the place in the UK. [2099Net tries to think back to that horrible Alice in Wonderland film] Isn't it the Tower of London? In which case, its just a landmark (although technically she should be in Oxford)

Most castles don't belong to royalty and never did. Old castles are from the time before English unification, so terms like royalty are (mostly) academic, and later castles belonged to various Lords, Barons and land owners (and often were built on sites of pre-unification castles)