Treasures Wave 3 moved back?!

[rnrlesnar]

Where is this "official" confirmation you all are speaking of? I checked the Disney Store site and Disney DVD site and the treasures are all still listed as coming out December 2nd 2003. Until Disney's site and retailers sites start changing the dates, I'll wait before getting upset over this.

[Porce]

Well, we now have official confirmation from animation historian Jerry Beck, who is a good friend of Leonard Maltin...

We're waiting another six months, folks.

Man this sucks...

[MickeyMouseboy]

oh well something less to buy this christmas! i wonder if we're getting two waves next year?

[Porce]

It is stupid to delay them because:
1.) The Front Lines set has already been delayed a year.
2.) The Mickey set was to celebrate Mickey's 75th anniversary.
3.) It's stupid to release "Mickey's Christmas Carol" in May.
4.) The Tomorrow Land set should not be delayed because it has not had high pre-order sales.
5.) It's three weeks before its planned release!
6.) It will throw the release schedule for future Treasures off-track.

And besides, now I don't having anything on my Christmas/birthday wish list...

[tttevans]

This is the ultimate low for Disney's business practices, using preorders of honest internet retailers to make a greeeeeeeedy strategic marketing reversal. Internet retailers should no longer give Disney any preorder information because of this stunt by Disney. Disney is also dishonest about its scheduled release dates.

[disneyrecordfan]

This fall, Disney's already had big DVD revenues from "Sleeping Beauty," "The Liong King," "Finding Nemo" and "Pirates of the Caribbean."

I'd wager they moved back Wave 3 of the Disney Treasures to next Spring to guarantee some good DVD revenues during that quarter, since this one's already in the bag?

[Luke]

Yeah, although I'm sure next May - with the 2-disc Lilo & Stitch and Pocahontas sets - would already do better than what they released (or half-assed released) last May. They must just be trying to destroy all expectations.

[Chernabog]

I´m now very very sceptical on todays Disney as a whole. I don´t believe in a word what they are saying anymore. And they only have themself to blame, for dragging us - the people - in their own dirt.
I must say that I will Not At All be surprised if we come to May next year and they deleate it or move it again.
Shame on Disney - I have lost all respect for the former company there now.
I hope they go under....

[2099net]

But you guys aren't looking at the bigger picture. If stock did have to be allocated for a December release - there's a chance you might not be able to get at least one of these sets yourselves.

No would that "piss you off"? I know it would piss me off more than having to wait until May (but I ordered so early with Amazon, I doubt it would happen). But it would happen to a lot of collectors, and would be just as big, if not an bigger PR disaster for Disney (especially as EBAY prices would rocket, as Luke points out).

But I am annoyed with Disney if this is the reason because, as I said when we were first discussing the numbers for this year's tins - Disney got it wrong. Way wrong. You don't need an MBA in business or a $300,000 a year salary to see that.

There's lots of reasons for the increased numbers, but Disney should have been aware of all of them:

1) Better awareness of the product. When Wave 1 was released, Disney did little publicity - almost nothing compared to their blockbuster movies and animated classics released round about the same time. It stands to reason awareness would increase year upon year - especially if Disney stuck to a regular release pattern.

2) The more DVD players in circulation. The more potential customers. It's as simple as that. Plus, I doubt Disney did any sort of claculations for oversea's sales when they commissioned their original survey to assess demand. Stupid. I'm convinced Disney is blind to overseas sales even now. If Disney want to stop overseas exporting, they should ensure that their product is released in all territories at the same time. We're still in Limbo over the first two treasures releases in the UK - with nobody knowing if they were released or not - and they were supposed to have been released yesterday!

3) EBAY. If I ran a business which released "limited edition" collectables, I would check EBAY to see how the value of such collectables was holding up. High prices means big demand. It also means lots of multiple purchases to EBAY later. Again, none of this is rocket science. We all spotted the signs.

4) Popular tins - the wartimes set has achieved a reputation ever since slipping last year, Mickey Mouse is, well, Mickey Mouse and Donald was certain to be the best selling tin yet (beating last years Goofy). Again Disney should have known this.

All of these considerations should have been taken into account when setting the initial figures. It was madness, absolute madness to intitially set this years tins to the same figures as last years. Everybody with the slightest interest saw how quick the Goofy set sold out on most e-tailer sites. Apparently Disney doesn't have the slightest interest in their own products.

[indianajdp]

This is the ultimate low for Disney's business practices, using preorders of honest internet retailers to make a greeeeeeeedy strategic marketing reversal. Internet retailers should no longer give Disney any preorder information because of this stunt by Disney. Disney is also dishonest about its scheduled release dates.

Folks...what do we really know?
All we have is internet rumor and personal theories.

A ton of money has already been spent on production, marketing and promoting the December release of these Tins. I continue to take the stance that this is something that, for whatever reason, had to be done. You don't make a move like this just to increase a print run at the risk of alienating your consumer base AND your distributors. Because while all of us bitch and moan about this there are thousands of stores across the country that are currently having to redo entire sections that would have housed the Treasures...not to mention running to other studios looking for something else to make up for that cash cow void.

[Chernabog]

But if that is the reason, I think it´s a horrible one!
Why should it take five months to produce more sets!?!?!?!?!

[Uncle Remus]

this is really strange for Disney to release the Treasure Tins in May. now i have to wait a little longer for the Walt Disney on the Front Lines Set

[Chet Dakota]

I just pre-ordered the four Wave 3 Treasures on Amazon, and although the release date for each is still listed as December 2, 2003, the Estimated Ship Date in listed as May 10, 2004.

This looks to be true.

[canon]

Here's what Jerry Beck had to say on the Animation Show Forums
( http://www.animationshow.com/forums/ind ... t=353&st=0) :

It's TRUE!

Here's the deal - it REALLY will come out in May 2004. I'm still confirming the facts, but it's delay has NOTHING to do with censorship. It has been pushed off the schedule due to massive sales (and additional units ordered) on FINDING NEMO, LION KING, and PIRATES OF THE CARRIBEAAN. They also need more tin boxes because the orders for WAVE 3 have exceeded the original limited edition quantities.

----------

Stink! This really bites. I was looking forward to that Tomorrowland set.

RATS.

[2099net]

From a poster on Home Theater Forum:

I asked Leonard Maltin and here's his reply:

"Hi... Yes, it's true... I just found out yesterday, and it has something to do with a backup at the duplicating facility, which is swamped right now. It's also because--and this is the good part--the demand for the new Treasures has exceeded their expectations and they weren't ready to package so many of them. So in the short run it's a disappointment, but in the long run it's good news."

[2099net]

This is the ultimate low for Disney's business practices, using preorders of honest internet retailers to make a greeeeeeeedy strategic marketing reversal. Internet retailers should no longer give Disney any preorder information because of this stunt by Disney. Disney is also dishonest about its scheduled release dates.

Er. Every retailer has to order stock months (or at least weeks) in advance - or else how will Disney get the correct number of discs to them?

It's nothing to do with 'pre-orders' as such, just the orders from retailers themselves (who have to include both pre-orders and anticipated impulse sales) in their order totals.

But the bottom line is, any items ordered by a retailer are stocked at the retailer's risk, not Disney's. If they're ordering lots, it because they think they will sell. Either from pre-orders or customer inquiries.

If Disney get total retailer orders for 400,000 Donald Duck sets, and they're only making 125,000 (or 250,000 or whatever they finally decided on) what are Disney to do?

Ignore some retailers and favor major accounts like Amazon and Wal-Mart? That would sure piss people and other retailers off.

Only send out 60% of each retailers order? That would result in some retailers not being able to meet their already taken (and probably paid-for) pre-orders. That would sure piss people and retailers off. How would you feel if Amazon sent out an email saying they couldn't meet your pre-order? How easy would it be to find a replacement elsewhere, when evey other retailer is only getting 60% of their order? What's worse? Waiting until May or being part of a retailer lottery?

And of course, only selling 125,000 (or 250,000) copies of a release with orders for 400,000 will sure piss off Disney's shareholders.

It's a mess, but there's no easy way out. But warnings and concern should have been flagged last year with the Goofy and Mickey sets. (and I don't buy the whole Nemo/Pirates thing - these Treasures discs should have been pressed weeks ago - certainly before reorders for Nemo came through, and no Pirates reorders have come through yet. But it could be stopping Disney from quickly upping the numbers for further discs).

[tttevans]

Years ago, companies needed to go through an elaborate process to predict the number of sales for a certain commodity. Usually, it took on the form of a marketing survey through mailings and telephone interviews. What I was saying is that Disney should not be using easily obtained pre-orders as a market survey tool to advance sales. Sure, it is ok for a retailer to pass on a "demand" to the company as sales climb, but using pre-orders for the purpose of finding that demand borders on unethical business practices.

Pre-orders have an intrinsic expectation as oppposed to marketing surveys. The main expectation of a pre-order is to deliver the product AS ORDERED on the scheduled delivery date. The main expectation of a survey for marketing a product is to sell the product for a profit.

I understand that it was the retailer that passed on the pre-order info, and thereby takes on the liability of the pre-order tactic, but Disney itself also uses that tactic at its own web site. And it is obvious that Disney did not oppose receiving the pre-order info from the retailer, and thereby places its stamp of approval on this tactic.

What is going to happen in May if the pre-orders once again far exceed the number of issued treasure tins? According to Disney, they will once again delay to meet the demand. Disney should not be in the business of using pre-orders for marketing tactics, period.

[Alcazam]

...despise the modern Disney philosophy. There is no reason to delay this. They've announced how many copies they were going to make before people ordered it, and to simply increase that number three weeks before the original release date is highly unprofessional. That's why it's called LIMITED edition, folks; because the number of copies is limited. Why not release the limited edition, and then, next year, reissue it to the general public without the litographs and tins. That's what sick about large companies: they can do whatever they want, for no reason if they can't make one up. That's all, folks

[2099net]

It's nothing new. Comic collectors are used to "limited editions" and stock allocations and additional delays to cover demand. It's something we've had to learn to live with. But when I pre-order something and find out the shop can't get it, or can't get enough to cover their pre-orders it pisses me off. I'm even more pissed off when I see the product on EBAY 2 hours later at double or triple the price. (Er. Not that I <strike>spend</strike> waste money on comics anymore. Honest. I don't!)

That should keep the missus happy

I cannot begin to imagine how pissed off I would be if I was unable to get the Mickey Mouse in Living Colour Vol 2 tin for example, and I'd imagine I'd be even more pissed off after I'd seen the inflated EBAY prices.

Disney have done wrong, I won't defend them at all for mucking up their initial numbers. There is no excuse after looking at the previous 2 years orders and sell-through rate. But in the bigger picture, I think Disney may have made the right decision to delay the releases but

(1) They should have done this a month ago
(2) The delay should be until Mid-January or Mid-February latest.
(3) It would be nice for Disney to include a little extra inside the tins when they are released - not discs as they are already mastered. But an extra booklet or something? A pin? A bookmark? Something. Just to say "thanks"
(4) All future waves should be unlimited (but still on [unnumbered] tins)

As with most things in life, there's pros and cons to each decision. This time I think the pros slightly outweigh the cons.

[Alcazam]

I wouldn't think I would get this angry. But when a game is delayed, they let the people know about it a least a month or two before the original release date. As I said, unprofessional. I don't think Disney are going to include a thank-you gift or anything. Not in this lifetime.

If the next waves of WDT are going to be unlimited, then the early waves will increase in value. Because then more people are going to know about the series. Many would want to include all the sets. Not that I'm going to sell mine.