That's So Raven Spin-Off "Cory in the House"

[BATBfan1]

Lazario, I will answer this one for you....

Alright. First, I think you kind of accused me of liking other shows merely because they appeal to white audiences. I am not now, nor have I ever been a racist. If you want a really good black show, watch "The Cosby Show". Raven is not a really good black show.

Lazario never said that! How in the heck could you accuse him for saying that? The only really black shows on Disney channel is That's So Raven and The Proud Family. Personally, I cannot stand The Proud Family, if you want to bash a show, bash that one!

I do agree with you on that second point...I just think it's a shame Disney has sunk so low, they will try to make a quick buck over quality. Raven is low quality programming. If it was the best Disney could do, then I wouldn't be harping on this...but I have seen them do better and I know they can. But I completely agree with you about the other shows. And I will have to admit, Raven is better than those brainless shows such as "Jo-Jo's Circus" and "The Wiggles". What angers me is that Disney thinks kids are too stupid to talk to on a semi-adult level. Walt knew that kids were smarter than people think. But this thread is about the Raven spinoff, so that's why I've put forth my opinions about Raven.

Raven is not a low Quality program! Do you even know what it is about?!?!?!? what kind of quality do you need or want for the show?

I read in your post above that you said she over reacts in the show. HOW ELSE DO YOU WANT HER TO ACT WHEN SHE JUST SAW THE FURTURE?!?! If you had that gift and saw things the way she did, you would run around and try to fix it to, that's what she does!

I do not expect Gone With the Wind (good film, though). I do expect Disney to live up to its name and provide quality entertainment for families. I will agree that it is cleaner than most anything on television today...but as far as plot goes, it comes nowhere near Boy Meets World (and I'm not talking about race. I'm talking plot).

Gone With The Wind IS NOT a kids film, so why in the heck would you compare it to Raven?
Boy Meets World was one of the corny shows I could not stand and had to turn it off while watching! It made no sense at times, and that show teachs kids to be bad in school and like to there parents and try to get away from the truth and stuff. That show made no sense at all! Sorry to the fans, but this has nothing to do with Raven!

I understand exactly what I'm saying. I do think Disney deserves some responsibility for "the dumbing down of America". They used to provide educational shows that kids could enjoy. Now, it's a mindless sequel every time you turn around and a slew of mindless television programs that is at best a babysitter that teaches very little. I will say that Raven does teach some valuable lessons. That is a plus...but I know Disney can do better. Yes, parents and kids are on different wavelengths. But, Disney has always been able to find a wavelength where parents and kids merge...where the show/film is not too intellectual for the children...yet not too stupid for the parents. I know that Disney can do this...but they believe low quality shows will make a quicker buck.

Ok, you are so contradicting youself in the paragraph. first you say raven is "the dumbing down of America" than you say "I will say that Raven does teach some valuable lessons. That is a plus...but I know Disney can do better. " which one is it?

I have been arguing over the "dumbing down" of Disney shows and films for years. When you go from "Cinderella" and "Beauty and the Beast" to "The Emperer's New Groove" and "The Incredibles", something's wrong. But my argument here is in the name. It is Walt Disney's name on these mindless shows and films. It would break his heart to see his name on something so juvenile and mindless today. And I know what others will say. "How do you know what Walt would and wouldn't like?" Well, I have studied Walter Elias Disney. I know almost everything about him. And I know what he considered quality and what he considered garbage. EVERYTHING on the Disney Channel today, Walt would consider garbage. Again, if it was the best they could do, then that's fine. But it's not. They are only putting out this mindless junk because they want to make a quick buck. Let me quote Walt Disney by saying:

"Do a good job. You don't have to worry about the money; it will take care of itself. Just do your best work - then try to trump it."

"You reach a point where you don't work for money."

That's the point. Disney is not doing it's best work in Raven and it shows.

Dinsey already did worse besides that's so raven, most shows now stink on Disney channel!

But the point is, if it was trash the way you say it is, why is it on it's fourth season and beat out most of the Disney Channel shows?

[Lazario]

If you want a really good black show, watch "The Cosby Show".

I strongly disagree. To say a show is really good implies that it was all around a well-made show. That wasn't the Cosby Show. The Cosby Show had some of the sappiest, contrived, and flat-out boring storylines ever put on television. Like I've said before, Bill Cosby and Phylicia Rashad were amazing actors, but their talents were not enough to make that show watchable, because it wasn't very watchable. At all.

Raven is not a really good black show.

It's a decent black show. And no more need be said from your corner. We get that you don't understand the show. I'm not saying it's the best black show on TV right now. But it has style, it's funny enough, and everything I said before. Besides, I doubt you're hardly the foremost black TV critic.

I just think it's a shame Disney has sunk so low, they will try to make a quick buck over quality.

This is mostly apparent in their movies (but this has been the case since the 90's, i.e.: Flubber, to the recent, The Wild). But it's true.

Raven is low quality programming.

Not more so than several of their other shows, it's still light years ahead of Lizzie McGuire, Even Stevens, Zack and Cody, Naturally Sadie, Life with Derek, and Phil of the Future, just to name a few.

What angers me is that Disney thinks kids are too stupid to talk to on a semi-adult level.

I don't think we should (not blaming anyone in particular) be looking at Disney to remain the sole source of quality kids' programming or giving them the job of being the ones responsible for upholding Walt's original standards. Because Disney's only doing what countless (and don't take that word for granted, I am not using it in the understating sense) other channels have done and will continue doing until the average 9 year old is performing brain surgery. Including Nickelodeon, PBS, CBS, and every channel that's ever had a kids' program. It would be building us up for nothing short of complete disappointment.

I do expect Disney to live up to its name and provide quality entertainment for families.

Well... understand that now Disney is making itself a new name. And it's not all that different from the other channels, networks, and companies that make family programs.

I will agree that it is cleaner than most anything on television today... but as far as plot goes, it comes nowhere near Boy Meets World.

Raven? Thank GOD it's not like Boy Meets World - that show is one of the most pathetic pieces of tripe I've ever had the extraordinarily excrutiating displeasure of viewing, on several occasions!!!! Talk about a show that picks it's characters out of the garbage and gives them completely unrealistic traits. You know, the ones that make them seem less pathetic by episode end - otherwise known as the "lesson-learned / life affirmed" cliche = a bunch of horse manure. If you're looking to shows like this as a guide to how Disney makes a good show, it's probably best you have yourself committed.

I will say that Raven does teach some valuable lessons. That is a plus...

People who look to TV to teach their family and kids valuable lessons are fools and morons. TV can only affirm what one already knows or believes. Educational TV is National Geographic, The Discovery Channel (before that WRETCHED Orange County Chopper crap!), The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, The History Channel, and to some extent A&E and PBS. If your family looks to fictional TV shows to teach their kids values, you deserve to be riled by shows like... whatever you don't like. It's basically because of people like you that you get suckered by channels who continually drop their standards to make sub-quality programming. I'm a victim of my high standards because TV has reached it's point of complete creative exhaustion, and all it can do is recycle with new audiences (finally! gays and friends and families of are getting respected and treated like real audiences and having some programs tailored to them). TV can't keep up with me. But you, you expect TV to keep on a moral high-ground... Perhaps you need to take a real good look around and tell me what you really see. Why are your family audiences really being condescended to?

But, Disney has always been able to find a wavelength where parents and kids merge... where the show/film is not too intellectual for the children...yet not too stupid for the parents.

Welcome to the wonderful new TV Revolution. Disney can't keep up with the real power-thinkers, so they present ultra-simplistic shows to balance the social responsibility of Bravo and Oxygen. I don't see very many parents complaining. Because this is their precious alternative to having their kids confronted with images and ideas the parents can't understand but deep-down the kids know all too-well. I think you'll find you're more in the minority than you realize. Because I think there are 2 majorities at work against you. Oh, and the state of the world right now is make a quick buck. Lead by example or follow with a bright smile (in hopes the other robots don't throw rocks at you).

Disney is not doing it's best work in Raven and it shows.

I disagree. This is a new era for Disney, get used to it. Stop judging Raven by the standards of Disney shows from any other era. You just can't do that, it doesn't work. You can say it does all you want, but you'll never be right. You have to take it in it's own context. It's a different show in a time where so many shows are the same. You have this show completely backwards. And you really aren't taking a very good look at other channels' shows. You might have a point if you judged it against other teen-focused shows on UPN or WB or those channels. Because for the millionth time, this is who Disney is competing with - not their own past. That's the way they make money, and you seem to understand money is the main concern. But with that in mind, remember that this only affects the show after it is shot or when scripts are being approved. Not when they're being written or shot. And when they are being shot, edited, and seen on TV - it's an upbeat show that doesn't try to get deep. And for that, not a lofty ambition to be sure - it's very satisfying. Raven has an amazing, warm, and feistily infectuous energy. And the young woman has a great knack for physical comedy. She really is a virtuoso. For family / young-person programming, this is the most we can ask for.

So you understand what you're saying and so do I, but you don't understand what your words really mean. Because you really seem to be confused as to what Disney is doing. It's not so simple as everything on the show is dictated by money. Because that's not true. Don't slam the writers because they aren't trying to be like other shows, don't blame Disney execs for not trying to make this show like other Disney shows / movies. It just so happens that many of those movies and shows wouldn't succeed where Raven has, admirably. Face facts - it's a new day and Raven's a shining star in a sea full of broken lightbulbs.

[joplin4]

I will ask you what you asked me. Why is it that "The Cosby Show" ran for 8 years?

You are probably one of those people that would argue with Walt Disney telling him that his way of film-making could never work in a million years. Until you actually learn about Walt, I feel that you do not possess the necessary wisdom to further discuss this topic.

Your words have hurt me...not because it's an attack on me...but because it is an attack on Walt Disney and everything he stood for. You obviously know very little about quality. So, I feel it is useless arguing with someone that has been under the influence of Raven. Thank you. Have a Disney day.

BATBFan1: You obviously have never seen a BMW episode completely to the end. The show does feature lieing, stealing, etc. However, you will observe that at the end of the program, the liers, cheaters, thieves, etc. are punished appropriately.

"I don't make films for children. I make films that children aren't embarrassed to take their parents to."

"I go right straight out for the adult. As I say, for the honest adult. Not the sophisticates. Not these characters that think they know everything and you can't thrill them anymore. I go for those people that retain that something, you know, no matter how old they are; that little spirit of adventure, that appreciation of the world of fantasy and things like that. I go for them. I play to them. There's a lot of them. You know?"

"Since the beginning of mankind, the fable-tellers have not only given us entertainment but a kind of wisdom, humor, and understanding that, like all true art, remains imperishable through the ages."

"We have always tried to be guided by the basic idea that, in the discovery of knowledge, there is great entertainment -- as, conversely, in all good entertainment there is always some grain of wisdom, humanity, or enlightenment to be gained."

"Look - Disney is a thing, an image in the public mind. Disney is something they think of as a kind of entertainment, a kind of family thing, and it's all wrapped up in the name Disney. If we start pulling that apart by calling it a 'Bill Walsh Production for Walt Disney' or a 'Jim Algar True-Life Adventure for Walt Disney', then the name Disney won't mean as much any more. We'd be cutting away at what we've built up in the public mind over the years. You see, I'm not Disney any more. I used to be Disney, but now Disney is something we've built up in the public mind over the years. It stands for something, and you don't have to explain what it is to the public. They know what Disney is when they hear about our films or go to Disneyland. They know they're gonna get a certain quality, a certain kind of entertainment. And that's what Disney is."

After looking over these quotes, everything you have attacked me for believing, Walt also believed. If I am stupid for believing that a lesson should be taught and wisdom should be gained from a television program, then you have to say the same thing about Walt Disney. You sir, are no Disney fan.

[Lazario]

I will ask you what you asked me. Why is it that "The Cosby Show" ran for 8 years?

What kind of a joke is that? Everyone knows just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. So, you're not like everyone apparently - that doesn't mean you have to be stupid. Come into the light of knowledge- just put your foot into the cool water by merely attempting to think of the answer to your own question.

You are probably one of those people that would argue with Walt Disney telling him that his way of film-making could never work in a million years.

If that is true, what do you care? You're not going to prove your point by painting me as a lousy human being. That doesn't change anything. But just for the record, you're way off base here as well. I'm not challenging Walt's vision - the world is. After you adapt to the way the world treats Walt's ideas, you can understand why I feel the way I do.

Until you actually learn about Walt, I feel that you do not possess the necessary wisdom to further discuss this topic.

Excuse you, but I don't need to read a Walt Disney biography to make comments about That's So Raven, The Cosby Show (which I realize isn't a Disney production in any way), or Boy Meets World. And it's rather upstarty of you to suggest that I do. Don't be a punk.

Your words have hurt me...not because it's an attack on me...but because it is an attack on Walt Disney and everything he stood for.

Oh God, here you go again... Just because I think you're going off the deep end about this, taking Raven or modern Disney entertainment too seriously, you think I must be anti-Disney. Sure, ask anyone! They'll tell you exactly what you want to hear. I'm serious about quality entertainment too or I wouldn't be defending Raven, digging Boy Meets World's grave (a casualty of it's own over-simplified, simple-minded, single-minded view of the world), and shedding some true light on the Cosby's. When it comes to Disney, there's nothing confusing about what either one of us is saying. You're just lacking some serious experience, it shows in your opinions and your strange idolation of Walt himself. I'm sure if he was alive now (of course it would set a world record since he'd be about 105 y/o), he wouldn't be asking you to help him fight his battles.

You obviously know very little about quality. So, I feel it is useless arguing with someone that has been under the influence of Raven.

Okay, I have seen obnoxious board members come and I've seen them stick around and fester... But you are a grade D, 4th rate clown. So stop trying to make me laugh. You're basically using the age-old "I know what you are, but what am I?" It didn't work when you were on the playground and it won't work now. If you're going to keep this up, go play with your crayons and marbles (by the way, for veterans of arguements with me... Yes, I feel a little awkward saying that to someone else!).

You're one of the last people I can think of who is qualified to determine who is and isn't a Disney fan.

[memnv]

I will ask you what you asked me. Why is it that "The Cosby Show" ran for 8 years?

What kind of a joke is that? Everyone knows just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. So, you're not like everyone apparently - that doesn't mean you have to be stupid. Come into the light of knowledge- just put your foot into the cool water by merely attempting to think of the answer to your own question.

I strongly disagree with you here, Cosby Show was a great show the first few years but as the series went on it got weaker, The Kids grew up, People leave the show. But that is the case with most sitcoms Especially when they have kids in them, like Facts of Life, Silver Spoons, Differnet Strokes, Married with Children, Fresh Prince,Rosanne, and others

[joplin4]

The only reason I asked why the Cosby Show aired for 8 years was to get you to say this. In one of your first responses, you asked me why, if Raven was not good, has it lasted longer than any other Disney Channel show. I think you just proved my point here. Just because she is popular, does not mean the show is good.

At any rate, we could argue day and night about this. I feel I am right. You feel you are right. So, why don't we agree to disagree here?

[BATBfan1]

I will ask you what you asked me. Why is it that "The Cosby Show" ran for 8 years?

What kind of a joke is that? Everyone knows just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. So, you're not like everyone apparently - that doesn't mean you have to be stupid. Come into the light of knowledge- just put your foot into the cool water by merely attempting to think of the answer to your own question.

You are probably one of those people that would argue with Walt Disney telling him that his way of film-making could never work in a million years.

If that is true, what do you care? You're not going to prove your point by painting me as a lousy human being. That doesn't change anything. But just for the record, you're way off base here as well. I'm not challenging Walt's vision - the world is. After you adapt to the way the world treats Walt's ideas, you can understand why I feel the way I do.

Until you actually learn about Walt, I feel that you do not possess the necessary wisdom to further discuss this topic.

Excuse you, but I don't need to read a Walt Disney biography to make comments about That's So Raven, The Cosby Show (which I realize isn't a Disney production in any way), or Boy Meets World. And it's rather upstarty of you to suggest that I do. Don't be a punk.

Your words have hurt me...not because it's an attack on me...but because it is an attack on Walt Disney and everything he stood for.

Oh God, here you go again... Just because I think you're going off the deep end about this, taking Raven or modern Disney entertainment too seriously, you think I must be anti-Disney. Sure, ask anyone! They'll tell you exactly what you want to hear. I'm serious about quality entertainment too or I wouldn't be defending Raven, digging Boy Meets World's grave (a casualty of it's own over-simplified, simple-minded, single-minded view of the world), and shedding some true light on the Cosby's. When it comes to Disney, there's nothing confusing about what either one of us is saying. You're just lacking some serious experience, it shows in your opinions and your strange idolation of Walt himself. I'm sure if he was alive now (of course it would set a world record since he'd be about 105 y/o), he wouldn't be asking you to help him fight his battles.

You obviously know very little about quality. So, I feel it is useless arguing with someone that has been under the influence of Raven.

Okay, I have seen obnoxious board members come and I've seen them stick around and fester... But you are a grade D, 4th rate clown. So stop trying to make me laugh. You're basically using the age-old "I know what you are, but what am I?" It didn't work when you were on the playground and it won't work now. If you're going to keep this up, go play with your crayons and marbles (by the way, for veterans of arguements with me... Yes, I feel a little awkward saying that to someone else!).

You're one of the last people I can think of who is qualified to determine who is and isn't a Disney fan.

Once again, I strongly agree.

I honestly don't feel like arguing with you Joplin4 because people who don't open up to other people and see "their" points and opinion... really it isn't worth it!
You know the saying hard headed people? Not saying you have to like the show like others do but at least give it a chance! Why not? What do you have to lose?

[joplin4]

I have given it a chance. I've seen about 20 episodes and ALL of them were childish and low quality. So, it's not that I haven't tried to give the show a chance.

[Lazario]

I strongly disagree with you here, Cosby Show was a great show the first few years but as the series went on it got weaker, The Kids grew up, People leave the show. But that is the case with most sitcoms Especially when they have kids in them, like Facts of Life, Silver Spoons, Differnet Strokes, Married with Children, Fresh Prince,Rosanne, and others

I think I can basically agree with you on this one. But I wouldn't say first few years. At most, really, one season. This show had practically nowhere to go, period, without stronger characters or more ambitious storylines. Instead, almost everything that wasn't cutesy comedy or generational gap related that first season or two... was flat and bland.

The only reason I asked why the Cosby Show aired for 8 years was to get you to say this. In one of your first responses, you asked me why, if Raven was not good, has it lasted longer than any other Disney Channel show. I think you just proved my point here

I don't think so. I used that example to prove the show's appeal was for an audience broader than you were assuming it was. I proved my point whether or not you agree. Because you actually expected to say "oh yeah, the Cosby's were a great black show and so Raven's not that, she must stink," and get support for it. Perhaps that's where you hit the maximum point of absurdity. Watch a few more black shows first, may I recommend: The Steve Harvey Show, My Wife and Kids, The Jeffersons, Sister Sister, Girlfriends, The Parkers, Eve, Hanging with Mr. Cooper, Living Single, Moesha, 227, The Bernie Mac Show, A Different World, The PJ's.. See them for their strengths or their weaknesses, and then try to get away with comparing Raven to the Cosbys.

I've seen about 20 episodes and ALL of them were childish

The show is about young people. What's wrong with them being a little childish? Do you have something against young people? If this was strictly marketed to young people, what's really so bad about that? I think it's flattering that new school Disney thinks young people are a suitable and worthy enough audience to cater to anyway. This is much more a case of you plain not liking it than it is about the show being bad.

Yeah, it's childish. But for that, it still has very good qualities. You don't want to see them. That's understandable. But you should just admit it already. I get that we all live different lives. That's I guess why the show doesn't appeal to you. Your life must simply be a little more rigid than the characters on Raven. Mine is as well, but you don't see me blaming Disney or Raven for it.

[joplin4]

I have seen The Steve Harvey Show. It has some stupidity, which I don't like...but over all a good show. I've seen parts of the Jeffersons. Pretty good. I've seen Sister, Sister. You can see in that show the very start of the Disney downfall...but it is definitely a good show. I loved Hangin' With Mr. Cooper. I would never miss an episode. I've seen A Different World and 227 before. Not bad. But you did imply not only that Raven has a wider fanbase...but that it must be good because of that popularity. Raven just is not good to me. I think it's got terrible writing.

Disney has always focused on young people...but they have always shown them as smarter than people think they are. Raven is painted as someone that always gets herself into trouble. Take Disney's Pollyanna. She was shown as a little girl that, while you may say she was too optimistic, that optimism got her through some tough times and she ended up saving an entire town...not from destruction, but from bitterness. Take Toby Tyler. A young man that runs away from home to join the circus...only to become a hero later. Disney loved to portray kids doing great things. And, while the kids were always acting like kids, they also showed that kids were intelligent. It wasn't "dumbed down". Raven acts like she's immature. She's constantly trying to get a boy. And I think aiming for kids has brought Disney down. Walt said, "If you aim for kids, your dead." Aim for the kid in the adult and the kids will enjoy it, too. The problem with Raven is very few people can relate to it. Unlike Toby Tyler, which appealed to every child's desire to run away and join the circus. Or Treasure Island, which appealed to every child's desire to have an adventure with pirates.

But like I said above, you have your opinions and I have mine. These just happen to be my opinions. I don't wish to adapt. And if we do, let's do away with Walt's name on the material if we are going to do things like everyone else. Raven, in my opinion, is not worthy of the Disney name...nor is anything else on The Disney Channel. Again, these are my opinions. But let's try to just agree to disagree on this topic. Continuing to argue won't get us anywhere. I obviously dislike Raven, whereas you think it's one of the greatest shows on television. So, let's stop arguing. Alright?

And I do believe I should apologize for the way some of my comments were worded. I get very passionate when I talk about Walt. I do place him on a pedestal because I think he deserves to be there. Don't get me wrong, he's not perfect and I don't think of him as a god to be worshipped...but I strongly admire him. And I feel if we are going to use his name, we should do things as he wanted. But, if I implied at any time that you were stupid or less than human, I am sorry.

[Lazario]

I've seen Sister, Sister. You can see in that show the very start of the Disney downfall... but it is definitely a good show.

Wasn't that show a Paramount production? I know they own the distribution rights. But is it perhaps a Disney co-production? Anyway, the Paramount/Viacom logo is at the end of almost every episode (every one I've seen).

But you did imply not only that Raven has a wider fanbase... but that it must be good because of that popularity.

That's not true. Maybe that's what you thought I was saying. But you are mistaken.

Disney has always focused on young people... but they have always shown them as smarter than people think they are. Raven is painted as someone that always gets herself into trouble.

Again, it's true this show takes a different avenue. But you don't understand why. It was necessary for Pollyanna to have adversity to face. But times are different now. Raven doesn't need to prove herself to anyone, we all know it, and the show proves it. This is the age where she can do for herself just fine. It also shows how much of a role friends play in being an adult, taking responsibility for your messes - the reason why Raven keeps on getting in trouble. It's also for the purpose of trying something new with physical comedy. Again, it's something that works just fine. There are several points in the show where you can see it's more influenced by Eddie Murphy's The Nutty Professor than anything in Disney's past (not just in the episode where Raven plays multiple roles as people in make-up, but also in the show where she's cooking with her Dad on TV and eats a mushroom). Again, not a decision that hurts the show. The show is still unique.

Disney loved to portray kids doing great things. And, while the kids were always acting like kids, they also showed that kids were intelligent. It wasn't "dumbed down". Raven acts like she's immature.

Okay. You're right. That's what Disney was. But if you think they've already tackled this so effectively in the past, what makes you think there's such an important necessity to still be doing that same thing? Why can't this show have license to just be carefree and fun, and destructive for the sake of hearty laughs? Why does it have to have an undercurrent of seriousness? At least this show has a conviction, it doesn't get too serious. That's just the way it is. It's not a strike against Toby Tyler or Pollyanna. Those films were still from a different era whereas today, these things are just not that important when it comes to being young.

Unlike Toby Tyler, which appealed to every child's desire to run away and join the circus. Or Treasure Island, which appealed to every child's desire to have an adventure with pirates.

Now I'm starting to think your opinion has some real merit. Not because you're proving your point, your point in regard to the show is really null and void. But now, you're starting to adequately illustrate the differences between young people then and young people now. I like Raven because I never had the desire to join the circus or have adventures with pirates. Sorry. And I'm not just speaking for myself. Very, very few people I know in my personal life under the age of 35 honestly feel like Toby Tyler or Bobby Driscoll's character from Treasure Island. Raven is not the same as all the viewers, but we still like her anyway. Are you trying to say Toby Tyler and Treasure Island reflect your childhood fantasies? Be honest.

And I do believe I should apologize for the way some of my comments were worded.

It's okay. I don't think you stepped out of line much.

Besides soon, you just might have something real to apologize for. Because I refuse to stop replying to your posts. As long as you're saying something, I have a reply for it. Don't think of it as an argument. I like discussion better. Besides, you don't have to worry about anyone here being unfair to Walt. It's far from my intention. Just remember, this world punishes idealists. So Walt in actuality isn't getting exploited anymore than most of us.

[joplin4]

Now, don't misunderstand me. I don't believe every kid had those desires to join the circus, or have adventures with pirates...at least not on a very real level. But, I believe deep down, on a subconscious level, kids can still imagine themselves as those characters.

I would simply like Disney to make films that appeal to a wider audience. I know you say Raven does that...but I disagree. I think the wider audiences merely suffer through Raven's silly shenanigans to appease their kids or grandkids, which love it.

But, it may be best to stop discussing this because we have gone very Off Topic and I don't think we need to be discussing this...at least in this thread.

[Lazario]

But, it may be best to stop discussing this because we have gone very Off Topic and I don't think we need to be discussing this... at least in this thread.

I can accept that. Even though it seems to me, everyone's really said their peace on Cory. I don't know many people who watch That's So Raven for Cory. Cory is probably one of the weakest characters on the show. I like the show mostly for it's outrageous comedy (which reminds me of classic-Nickelodeon All That, which I loved when I was around 12-14, before they tossed the original cast away) and Raven's likability. Despite what you think, she's lively, vivacious, and easy to like.

[dvdjunkie]

The whole point of this, in my opinion, is that "Raven" is made for young kids, 13 and younger..........The Cosby Show was aimed at adults who could relate to the problems in raising kids.

Besides being a no talent, I have space in my watching television for 'Raven' or any other of the so-called Disney shows. From Hilary Duff, right on through all of the so-called 'new Disney talent finds' I think that they could all be lumped in one sack and tossed overboard and no one would miss them.

Comedy is in the eyes of the beholder, and in my eyes this show (Raven) was not in the least funny or interesting. I would rather watch three bad episodes of "Good Times" (which I don't think there were any bad episodes) than suffer through another 'Raven'.

I will agree with you Lazario, on all the points you made. They were all true, and for the Disney regulars, the show did probably appeal to some of them. But that being said, I don't think "That's So Raven" was anything more than a sales pitch from Disney for all their products, and a big try at making a star of another no-talent, like Ms. Duff.

[Lazario]

I don't agree whatsoever that Raven has no talent. She's a tv-comedy actress and they are just of another breed. I mean honestly, what in your estimation does she have to do to be Meryl Streep? Or Angela Bassett? An episode of Raven where she secretly becomes addicted to cocaine? Win a Golden Globe or an Emmy? Or do a non-childrens' tv show? I know you're sharing your opinion, but it seems to be one of those dead-end opinions. Saying she's not talented now because you think she never could be. In which case, you wouldn't exactly be an appropriate judge? Don't you think you're being a little hard on her? What does she have to do to get a little credibility - she already has more experience than the Lohans and Duffs of Disney and has to do more in the way of actual comedy on her show than Duff or the casts of Even Stevens, etc.

[bennyb98]

so know one knows what happened to the mom? That new show does sound a bit like a flop. I don't think a lot of people even like the cory character.

A little bit late, but T'Keyah Crystal Keymah, who played the mom had problems with the producers and her salary, so she left the show and was quoted as calling it "crap", she was written off as going to England to study law in the series.

[JiminyCrick91]

...so she left the show and was quoted as calling it "crap"...

I like her.

[hudday]

This will be interesting to see, as Corey is mainly a background character in the show so there is many angles disney can use as we dont as much about him as we do raven apart from the fact that he is a menace, we could see a more intimate Corey who likes girls asides from Chelsea or we could see more of his school life. My only concern is that it may lack substance and need more original Raven characters to make it interesting, we`ll have to wait and see!

[bennyb98]

...so she left the show and was quoted as calling it "crap"...

I like her.

LOL, that was my original feelings about the show but then I sat down to actually watch it and "oh snap" I actually enjoy it now.

[MickeyMousePal]

Corey in the House is really happen since TV Guide said it's coming soon on The Disney Channel.