So confused... HD-DVD or Blu-ray??

[kbehm29]

Warner Brothers Home Video is delaying their HD-DVD premiere street-date a little bit, as reported by http://www.comingsoon.net -

WHV Pushes Back HD DVD Titles
Source: Warner Home Video March 16, 2006


Warner Home Video (WHV), which previously has its first HD DVD titles scheduled for March 28, will now launch the new format on April 18 with Million Dollar Baby, The Last Samurai and Andrew Lloyd Webber's The Phantom of the Opera. Each of these titles will be available for $28.99 SRP.

"Warner Home Video has been working closely with our CE, IT and retail partners to design an optimal product launch for consumers and we're pleased to announce the launch dates for these initial titles," said Ron Sanders, President of Warner Home Video. "We have always been a leader in home entertainment experiences and are thrilled to be the first studio to deliver movies on high definition discs. Research shows consumers are rapidly moving towards high definition home entertainment experiences, and Warner is uniquely positioned at the forefront of the industry to meet the market's demands."

17 additional titles will be released in the coming weeks including Batman Begins, Constantine, Training Day and The Matrix.

Warner Home Video HD DVDs will offer resolution six times higher than standard definition DVDs, extraordinarily vibrant contrast and color in addition to beautifully crisp sound (with up to 7.1 audio). HD DVD also introduces instant access to extra features with the debut of a seamless menu-bar that allows viewers to enjoy features and settings without leaving or interrupting the film.

Interest in this next-generation medium continues to increase. Research shows 50 percent of consumers will make HDTV their next television purchase; 16 million HDTVs were purchased last year and that number is expected to double this year.

[2099net]

From IMDB

"As reported by Home Media Retailing magazine, Greenwald said that at a meeting with Sony execs in Japan about Sony's Blu-ray format, he learned that mastering costs would be $40,000 per movie versus $2,000 for a standard DVD. Each disc would cost $2.00, twice as much as a conventional DVD. "We have to wait until that price point comes down to a level that actually works for us," Greenwald remarked."

Looks like it will be a long time before any "niche" films or TV shows come out on DVD. And boy, those TV Season sets will be expensive!

[I am the Doctor]

2099net wrote

From IMDB

Quote:
"As reported by Home Media Retailing magazine, Greenwald said that at a meeting with Sony execs in Japan about Sony's Blu-ray format, he learned that mastering costs would be $40,000 per movie versus $2,000 for a standard DVD. Each disc would cost $2.00, twice as much as a conventional DVD. "We have to wait until that price point comes down to a level that actually works for us," Greenwald remarked."


Looks like it will be a long time before any "niche" films or TV shows come out on DVD. And boy, those TV Season sets will be expensive!

Ouch! With a doubling of the cost to manufacture the discs and mastering costs that aren't even really comparable, Mr. Greenwald is absolutely correct. Sony's going to have to get those cost down to something more comparable regular dvds costs (particularly the mastering costs) if the format has a hope of surviving. No way are most consumers going to pay double the cost of a regular dvd for a Blu-ray dvd, regardless of the picture/audio quality (Yes, there will be the die-hard movie aficiandos who will pick up Blu-Ray regardless of the price).

It would be most interesting to hear what the costs are to master and manufacture HD-DVD discs. If it is much cheaper to manufacture HD-DVDs, this could easily tip the balance in HD-DVD's favor. We already know that the HD-DVD machines will be less expensive than the Blu-Ray machines, so Blu-Ray already has one strike against it. If the Blu-Ray discs aren't at least comparable in price to HD-DVD, that could easily spell trouble for Blu-Ray.

[2099net]

I'm not sure what "mastering" means. I mean, don't all Sony DVDs boast the (currently pointless) slogan "Mastered in High Definition" on the box? If so, most "Mastering" is already done. DTS Images (aka Lowrey Digital) have done all thier (recent?) restorations in High Definition too.

I guess "mastering" is really "authoring" - from the compression to the menus to the integrated special features (much more complex than on current DVDs). I also expect HD-DVD to be similar, if not quite as expensive.

The cost must be a combination of time/money/equipment and experience, and is bound to drop as the format becomes mainstream.

But... say a film is 2 hours, it means a TV season could cost upwards of $3M just to put on disc! That's a lot of sales needed to recoup the costs. Blu-Ray won't be a TV on DVD medium for a long time (note, as far as I know, no TV on DVD has been announced for Blu-Ray's launch despite it being the format's fastest growing sector. Now we know why).

Discs won't cost twice as much, infact, they are to cost about $35-$40 IIRC. But, smaller, independent films with lower consumer appeal are unlikely to get releases for a long time based on this pricing model, as the mastering costs need to be absorbed by high-volume sales.

[Hogi Bear]

This is disc mastering (basic explaination): Basically they put the movie and other material (extras) together and they send it to be mastered to a template, that can then be used to duplicate the disc (or somewhere along the lines of). The making of the template is the mastering of the disc from what I understand.

There's an image of a mastering system on this page closer to the bottom: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press ... /04-0831E/

[2099net]

Well, over on the Home Theater Forum, HD-DVD is getting surprisingly high support - from (for the most part) hardware snobs (who you think would "know better").

Availability is one thing (these people are "early adoptors") but there's other issues behind their support as well - Price is an issue (and likely to be a bigger issue for non-home theater enthusiasts), and also a dislike of Sony is another (many lament the initial Blu-Ray software selection, and feel Sony are out-of-step with a cinema enthusiast's requirements).

I must say, Sony's initial releases seem misguided, until you read that they were originally supposed to be released with the PS3 and appeal to the younger gamer (but even that doesn't make much sense, as most new gamers would be wanting to buy these oh-so-wonderful games the PS3 is supposed to be getting, rather than re-buy movies they already own).

Ultimately, I think the HD-DVD/Blu Ray DVD battle will be closer than many of us thought.

[The Little Merman]

I'll pick up probably one Blu-ray disc for my PS3 when I get one, I guess.

*tlm

[Escapay]

I've been skimming/half-reading the HD-DVD reports over at TheDigitalBits, sounds like there's some annoyances with hardware (namely long loading time, among other things). I'm not deathie, so most of it goes over my head, though the way it sounds, they're impressed somewhat with the picture quality, the audio quality between the different studios is different, and some discs don't have a root menu, but rather, a menu that shows up while watching the HD-DVD.

I wasn't an early adopter for DVD (started around 2001), and from the looks of it, I doubt I'd be one for Blu-Ray either. Initially I was going to get some blu-ray discs simply to give me incentive to get a Blu-Ray player and HDTV, but even a year from now, prices will still be high, so I'd rather wait until Blu-Ray is at least where DVD was around 2000 or so (a few years into the market, with reasonably priced players and discs, and actually worth the upgrade).

Escapay

[kbehm29]

I wasn't an early adopter for DVD (started around 2001), and from the looks of it, I doubt I'd be one for Blu-Ray either. Initially I was going to get some blu-ray discs simply to give me incentive to get a Blu-Ray player and HDTV, but even a year from now, prices will still be high, so I'd rather wait until Blu-Ray is at least where DVD was around 2000 or so (a few years into the market, with reasonably priced players and discs, and actually worth the upgrade).

I've changed my mind about this whole situation and my plan is exactly the same as yours, except I think if any Disney Blu-Ray discs are released in the meantime I will pick them up so I don't miss out like I did with Snow White and Sleeping Beauty on DVD. AND I will definitely be picking up the PS3 in November.

[Karushifa]

I've changed my mind about this whole situation and my plan is exactly the same as yours, except I think if any Disney Blu-Ray discs are released in the meantime I will pick them up so I don't miss out like I did with Snow White and Sleeping Beauty on DVD. AND I will definitely be picking up the PS3 in November.

That brings up a good question: will Disney continue with their limited window release strategy in the first couple of years of hi-def sales? It's perfectly understandable and reasonable that many people are waiting to see how the hi-def trend pans out before sinking a bunch of money into a new player/discs, and given this, it only seems fair to keep the hi-def Disney films on the market until the late bloomers make up their minds about the format. I could see a limited window on the first hi-def movies not only bringing Disney abbreviated profits (and they're going to need all the revenue they can get given hi-def's increased production costs), but upsetting the more tech-wary fans as well.

[2099net]

That brings up a good question: will Disney continue with their limited window release strategy in the first couple of years of hi-def sales? It's perfectly understandable and reasonable that many people are waiting to see how the hi-def trend pans out before sinking a bunch of money into a new player/discs, and given this, it only seems fair to keep the hi-def Disney films on the market until the late bloomers make up their minds about the format. I could see a limited window on the first hi-def movies not only bringing Disney abbreviated profits (and they're going to need all the profits they can get given hi-def's increased production costs), but upsetting the more tech-wary fans as well.

Well, lots of people missed out on Snow White on DVD for the same reason. But they released it on VHS at the same time (and still are releasing most films on VHS) so any re-issues on Hi-Def are 99% likely to be re-released on normal DVD too. Disney isn't going to want to miss out on all the "missed Snow White the first time but I still only have 'normal' DVD" sales.

I guess with Hi-Def, which is supposed to have a longer lifetime than DVDs, Disney will just re-release their early titles again once the cycle is complete, either with new features or direct copies of their earlier Hi-Def releases.

But I can't see Disney investing in hi-Def only special features for a year or two, there simply won't be a market to cater for them. Just like most early DVDs were ports of LaserDiscs, most early next-gen discs are ports of DVDs.

Plus, like I say, given the fact that a lot of Home Theater Forum members are more "clued up" about DVD hardware and issues than most people, I really am surprised HD-DVD is getting as much support as it is on there (although I suspect most of the early-adoptors on the forum do intend to buy a Blu-Ray player too). However, cost is going to be a major issue with the "man on the street" and currently Blu-Ray players are projected to cost about twice as much as HD-DVD. I'm now thinking the format wars could last longer than I anticipated, which will undoubtably slow down unit uptake.

Oh and kbehm29, there's likely to be far to few PS3s. Sony's planned production numbers are not that far above the Xbox 360s, but the PS3 will sell many more in Japan. Pre-ordering early is the key.

[Karushifa]

Plus, like I say, given the fact that a lot of Home Theater Forum members are more "clued up" about DVD hardware and issues than most people, I really am surprised HD-DVD is getting as much support as it is on there (although I suspect most of the early-adoptors on the forum do intend to buy a Blu-Ray player too). However, cost is going to be a major issue with the "man on the street" and currently Blu-Ray players are projected to cost about twice as much as HD-DVD. I'm now thinking the format wars could last longer than I anticipated, which will undoubtably slow down unit uptake.

Perhaps with those folks, investment costs versus risks are getting some of them to pay more attention to HD-DVD. On one hand, Blu-Ray offers more storage capacity and therefore versatility with what can be recorded, but on the other hand the discs themselves have a higher potential for accidental damage than DVD or HD-DVD discs. In addition, the relative ease with which HD-DVD players can be made to be backwards compatible may also be attractive to folks who only want one media player for all their needs.

And then, as you mentioned, there's the cost. The jump from DVD to hi-def isn't as much a quantum leap as it was from VHS to DVD or from vinyl to CDs, so perhaps people want to see which hi-def format gives them the most overall satisfaction for their money. We're still talking just discs here, so which disc is going to deliver hi-def with the least frustrations once they hit the market?

[2099net]

Perhaps with those folks, investment costs versus risks are getting some of them to pay more attention to HD-DVD. On one hand, Blu-Ray offers more storage capacity and therefore versatility with what can be recorded, but on the other hand the discs themselves have a higher potential for accidental damage than DVD or HD-DVD discs. In addition, the relative ease with which HD-DVD players can be made to be backwards compatible may also be attractive to folks who only want one media player for all their needs.

Actually, I belive the BD media is more robust than either DVD or HD-DVD. It will come in a protective case? (like Sony's UMDs do) and it also has a special coating on the surface to reduce scratch damage.

And then, as you mentioned, there's the cost. The jump from DVD to hi-def isn't as much a quantum leap as it was from VHS to DVD or from vinyl to CDs, so perhaps people want to see which hi-def format gives them the most overall satisfaction for their money. We're still talking just discs here, so which disc is going to deliver hi-def with the least frustrations once they hit the market?

There's also the fact that all that's scheduled for BD for the moment are single layered discs. So although in theory BD has more storage space than HD-DVD (50GB+ compared to 30GB), in reality it will start out with 5GB less (single layer BD 25GB compared to duel-layer HD-DVD 30GB). It's as a result, I can't see it having a killer application for a while.

No matter what Sony say themselves, the lack of duel-layered BD releases must be down to manufacturing and/or cost issues. And for the first year at least, I see cost being the main issue (until Sony can perhaps replicate and release some discs will killer supplements).

[kbehm29]

I read an article today about how next's week's HD-DVD releases are going to be HD on one side and standard def DVD on the other.

Does anyone know if Blu-Ray discs are going to be like this? It only makes sense.

Oh - and don't worry - I plan on pre-ordering a PS3 as soon as it's humanly possible. Still, I won't hold my breath.

[2099net]

yes, they are making double-sided HD-DVD discs with 'normal' DVDs on one side. I guess they hope they can entice people into buying them even if they don't have a HD-DVD player, as it may mean they will upgrade to a HD-DVD later.

I would guess Sony won't do this on Blu-Ray, as it would mean Sony would have to pay a licence fee to the DVD consortium to do so, which sort of defeats Sony's plans for moving away from the DVD format and collecting licencing revenue of their own from the BD format (notice DVD is not mentioned anywhere on Blu-Ray discs or promotional literature?)

[Hogi Bear]

There is a version of the disc that JVC or TDK developed that had a layer for DVD and a layer for blu-ray on the same side and basically how it would work is the disc could be placed in a DVD player, but the DVD player could only read the layer for DVD that is set at .6 mm and would ignore Blu-ray's layer which is at .1 mm. Apparently they were also work on a 50 GB version as well, they only said they had designed a single layered version (25-27 GB) and this was a year or two ago.

One thing I wonder is what are they going to do for Blu--ray, in regards to "Disney DVD" like labeling. "Disney Blu-ray" doesn't fit, "Disney BD" could work, don't know about "Blu-ray Disney" or "Blu-ray Disney Disc"

There are hundreds of ideas.

[Lars Vermundsberget]

I haven't paid much attention lately.

Months ago some people who should know wrote that the "format war" was over before it started.

Oh well...

[Pluto Region1]

That brings up a good question: will Disney continue with their limited window release strategy in the first couple of years of hi-def sales? It's perfectly understandable and reasonable that many people are waiting to see how the hi-def trend pans out before sinking a bunch of money into a new player/discs, and given this, it only seems fair to keep the hi-def Disney films on the market until the late bloomers make up their minds about the format.

So.... My husband had another take on this... He was saying that perhaps Disney will not start all over again in the same order they went with the Platinum series. In otherwords the first Disney title out on Blu-Ray will not be Snow white - so in fact one may have to wait 10 or 13 years before they finally reissue Snow White. He thinks the reason for this is because when they first go over to Blu-Ray, they won't want to put the big sellers out because most people don't own the players. He was predicting they would still keep their limited release/vault policy but put out lesser titles first in the new format to test the waters. To me, that doesn't seem like a good strategy to get people to actually buy the new players. I think the best thing is to put your top seller out in the new format as a carrot to get people to buy the new players. Or better yet (as you've suggested) keep the titles that get released first in the new format, keep them out of the vault longer.

My husband wanted to know if Disney has ever released anything in Superbit. I didn't see a "superbit" thread so this seemed like the most logical place to ask.

[TM2-Megatron]

I read an article today about how next's week's HD-DVD releases are going to be HD on one side and standard def DVD on the other.

Does anyone know if Blu-Ray discs are going to be like this? It only makes sense.

Personally, I don't like the idea of an HD-format on one side, and DVD on the other. For one, I like my discs to have some kind of art and the title on one side (I hate double-sided DVD-18s for the same reason)

As for Blu-Rays doing this, I'm sure they could; but I don't know if they'll bother. HD-DVDs are, from a structural point of view, much closer to actual DVDs than Blu-Rays are. It would probably be more involved, and more expensive, to stick a DVD-layer on the reverse side of a Blu-Ray (not to mention the licensing fees to the DVD Forum, or whatever archaic organization governs DVD and HD-DVD)

Oh - and don't worry - I plan on pre-ordering a PS3 as soon as it's humanly possible. Still, I won't hold my breath.

Are you sure about that? The PS3 is looking worse and worse as time goes by... not to mention Sony's arrogance. Also, the first (and probably a few subsequent) generation PS3s will have crap compatibility with future BD-R and BD-RE discs, and perhaps even future pressed BD-ROM discs. Remember how badly the first generation of DVD players performed with newer discs?

I'd go with the Wii or, if you absolutely must have HD games, the 360. You'd need quite a magnificent television (and eyes) to tell the difference between the PS3 and 360 in most games, and 360 manages to do it all with a much lower pricetag, and without resorting to a new, expensive format.

[dvdjunkie]

As the proud owner of a Samsung Blu-Ray DVD Player I can tell you that there is nothing to worry about. It is backwards compatible, so it will play all of your regular DVD's and upconvert them to very close to Hi Def resolution and make them look very good.

I had a HD-DVD player and it was nothing but a major pain the arse with all of its little idiosyncrocies. It would freeze for no reason while playing a movie, mostly at the changeover point for dual- layer, and on single-layer it would stop for no reason about 35 minutes into whatever you were watching. I complained and wrote to Toshiba, and called their service center, but no one could satisfy me with their answer, so I took it back for a full refund.

When I bought the Blu-Ray, I was given a certificate for three movies of my choice within the next twelve months for free. So far I have "Poseidon" as my first movie in the Blu-Ray format.

The first thing I noticed was the sound. I had to readjust all my settings for my 6.1 THX system in my Home Theater. Then came the brilliant picture. It looks like you can put your hand in it, it is so real looking.

My siggy says it all.............I am a happy Blu-Ray DVD player owner.