What is wrong with Disney and the DVD format?

[cokekiller]

<RANT>

Is their a specific person in charge of Disney DVD. If so...he/she should be fired.

I am a newbie on the DVD scene. Finally got a home theatre that was worth using to watch movies.

Have been looking into getting some favorite Disney DVD's for my collection. Talk about confusing the consumer! What a mess. Platinum...Special...Masterpiece...Collectors...Treasures...One Disk...Two disk....and Disneys special invention....Out of Print. I feel like an idiot running around trying to figure out what I can get...what I can't get...how much I wanna spend on ebay...

I didn't even know the Treasure Tins existed. But wow...wouldn't they be fun to watch. Unfortunately I can't do that because they are $50-$100 on ebay. I could give a Rat's a** about collectible tins. Don't they consider that some people may just want to watch this stuff.

Same with Toy Story. I would love to see these fairly new movies with commentary etc...about the making of the movie. Can I do that. Yes..for $75 to get the Toy Box on ebay.

This may seem like sour apples to some because I don't have these disks. But its not. I love Disney movies and the whole animation process. That's why I was excited for the platinum line. After Snow White...it seemed that Disney had finally got it right. Great movie quality with great behind the scene content. Now with ech new platinum release that quality fades into more stupid throwaway embarrasing games and music videos.

I don't understand why they would put out awsome laserdisks in the 80's and 90's for a format that barely anyone owned and now they can't do anything near that quality (extra wise) on DVD.

Can anyone truthfully say that if you were in charge you would publish the Disney DVD's in the same inconsistent, complicated, half assed way the Disney does it.

KISS...Keep It Simple Stupid. It really does work. Someone needs to learn that at Disney..seriously...I guess too many MBA's and not enough common sense.

Get rid of OOP....why should anyone have to wait 5+ years for another edition to come out. RIDICULOUS

Do three versions of each disk
Barebones Movie...Great Video and Dolby Digital 5.1

Special Edition...3 disks....Same as above but include DTS also...One disk behind the scenes...One disk kid crap

Collectors edition...Same as above....limited run....special packaging...artwork...OOP

Wow...I'm a genius....and they didn't even have to pay me. It seems to me that this would keep everyone happy. Adults, kids, collectors, rich and poor. But hey what do I know...probably nothing

</RANT>

[Uncle Remus]

welcome cokekiller

yes Disney can be annoying sometimes by releasing DVDs again because they have just one new feature on the DVD. and all the titles like Platinum and Gold Collection are annoying since it shouldnt really matter because a movie is just a movie.

[indianajdp]

CK you make some excellent points and belive me there are many folks around here that are in the same boat as you in regards to not being able to find OOP titles at a decent price.

Unfortunately if you didn't get in the DVD game early you're SOL on more than a few of those OOP titles like The Little Mermaid, The Jungle Book and 101 Dalmations (to name a few of the LEs). You had to be in the game in 1998-200 to jump on those at list price.

Why does Disney do this? Well, because they can and they always have. You can argue that they have such a huge potential market that they leave $$ on the table everytime. And on the flipside folks wil point out that Disney creates and even BIGGER demand because they can release MORE of a title in the next run and by adding extras and (gulp) scenes they can also get repeat business from existing owners.

The whole Platinum, Gold, Masterpiece, Special Edition, etc., is beyond ridiculous. But you know what? Disney can get away with it. It could say Horseshit Edition on it and people would buy it because right above that it would still say "Walt Disney's" . They traditionally break every single branding convention yet sell through 2-3 million units release week. Alice in Wonderland Masterpiece Edition will be no different.

I do disagree with you on two fronts, however.

First of all, it's not practible to do 3 different releases for any one title. There was nothing wrong with the Standard and Collector's Edition releases...a third muddies the waters a bit and I think ultimately lowers the print runs of the other two drastically. If you have a 2-disk CE there's no reason why you can't have a DTS track on that 2nd disk.

Secondly, the Treasure Tins. Not every Disney film collector is a rabid fan that has to have everything Disney on DVD. For that reason I (we) truly appreciate the Tins for what they are: amazing collections for the hardcore Disney enthusiast that are and should be very limited. I know it's easy for me to say because I have them all and will continue to make sure that I have all the future Tins. But I'd sing the same song if I didn't while cursing the fact that I didn't. They aren't meant for everyone and numbered print runs makes them even more valuable to the true collector...and unfortunately to those that buy 10+ copies of each to horde for a year to sell on eBay.

Just my $.02 and then some. Welcome to the boards CK and keep your eyes open...there are a few here that might have extra copies of those Tins available for trade.

[badboy2102]

CK if you want Disney then you gotta pay the price for them. I know I can feel where your coming from on the OOP. But that's how Disney works. So my advice is to jump on the titles right now while you can. As for the treasures, have you seen any of them? I myself have all those treasures. I do like them. Yes they are hard to find because of the tin numbers. If you are looking to purchase them, PM me and we can discuss price.

[RoyalNatalie]

You know, if I were running the Disney corporation, I would probably do the same thing. Sure, I might make better DVDs with juicer bonus features since I think a better product may lead to better sales, but keeping the movies out of production for 5-10 years keeps the movies fresh in the public's mind. They're always brand new for a new generation and that keeps the Disney legacy going strong. And of course, that doesn't hurt Disney's bank account either. This was a process that Walt Disney himself understood and practiced.

I can really, really sympathize with your frustrations, but I can also understand the motives behind Disney's decision.

[BasilOfBakerStreet427]

I like your three-edtion idea.

[cokekiller]

Thanks for the welcome...Heh...if I just made more money I wouldn't have to worry about any of this

I understand from a business perspective. Disney is a company. Disney needs to make money. I am sure all of the silly accountants have run the numbers and spreadsheet after spreadsheet to prove that this confusing mangled mess of DVD releases (that the common consumer can't possibly understand) makes more money

It's just simple frustration when I consider myself somewhat DVD savvy and I still find it irritatingly complicated. Disney has such a wonderful strong product. One would think they would want to preserve that legacy in a strong clear cut way. But again...what do I know

I know OOP is the topic of endless debate. I just find it hard to beleive that it actually works. Consider the scenarios.

If a new better version does come out...don't you think the serious disney-nuts would get it anyway...even if the older version was available up to that point?

If someone doesn't own a version...what is the difference to Disneys bottom line if they buy it now or 5 years from now? people usually stock up on Disney when they have kids. Its the perfect babaysitter
Aren't new families being started every day? I don't see the logic of pent up demand. I guess 3 million units in a week looks better than 3 million over 5 years...even though the end revenue is the same...I don't know?

As for the tins....I have basically given up. I canceled my order for wave 3 on Amazon. Since I don't want to pay the premium for the previous ones I guess I don't want any. I figure patience is a virtue. Hopefully they will come out in non tin version eventually. At least I can say Disney lost 3 sales because of the OOP policy

And why the 5-10 year wait? This is the real kicker for me (and should be for Disney too) DVD is not VHS. DVD will not be around in 5-10 years. HD-DVD will be here in 5 years minimum. The technology is moving too fast (well not fast enough for some of us ) Doesn't it make more sense to get as much money from DVD as quick as possible. I know it takes time to digitize, cleanup, and produce the DVD. But come on. Put some muscle behind it, and make some money now or they will miss some opportunity. I can safely say I won't be buying The Little Mermaid Platinum edition DVD 10 years from now. If it was HD-DVD (or what ever is available then...holograms ) that is what I will be buying. If the Little Mermaid was available now I would but that now...and then I would buy the HD-DVD version in 5 years. So why wait???

If Disney did come out with a non tin version of the treasures...do you think it would severly affect the collectability of the tins. 125k (or whatever) exist still. Wouldn't they still be collectors items for serious disney-nuts?

As for the edition names....they REALLY have to pick a scheme and stick to it. Talk about to many cooks...geez! It's just a small but very telling significant sign of the many things that are wrong with Disney today

Haha...I;m rambling...great forum...glad to get this off my chest. I feel better now. It's just a movie....It's just a movie....

[karlsen]

I do agree with you on the diffrent editions. I would also prefere that Disney had Gold Edition for all the standard ones and then Platinum Edition (or what ever) for the special ones. This realy irritates me, and is the reason why I now will take out all the original covers and put in custom made covers that match each other.

But I do not agree with you on the other points that you have.

First: I love the limited tins. They are made limited because many of them has a limited audience. I do not belive that Disney in the future will release all those without the tin.

But why did you cansel the once that you had on order. You do not need all of everything do you? Disney did not loose any sales when you did that, they only sold it to another customer.

Then it comes to the OOP issue, and this is one of those things that I find facinating about Disney. In this way they sell much more then what they would have done if they always had it availeble.

I know several people that goes bananas when they hear "Not availeble for over 10 years, and now out for a limited time only". There are a lot of people that then will by it just to be safe rather then sorry when it is OOP.
Either we like it or not, all marketing shows that this is a realy good trick for the Disney company.

But back to the limited tins. You can get lots of them cheap on Ebay. It is only the two Mickey Mouse boxes that cost over $50. The others are going for $10-$30

[indianajdp]

Ck -- You DO know you can get all four Wave 1 Tins for $126 delivered, right? All you need to do is join the Disney Movie Club and after you place your opening order (3 free + shipping) you can find them listed under Multi-Packs.

You'll need to purchase 6 Disney DVDs in a year to fulfill your membership, but the Tins order will cound as FOUR of those six.

You can find a link on the frontpage of this site to the Disney Movie Club.
Chances are prettty godd that the Wave 2 Tins wil also be available there within the next year.

[michelle]

there have been some very interesting points made...so i've got my 2 cents as well!...no more...(which is why i can't afford all the dvds i want... )

the labels...that has been complained about a lot...especially on the board, but Disney just can't seem to stick to something (anything!)...so i...and many other it seems, have just decided 'to the heck with it! if its 2-disc then out comes the wallet!

oh and bring on the separate "collector's" edition!...but three is *just* a bit impractical...knowing Disney, they'd probably put different special features on each version to get at people like...well...like us...

regarding the HD-DVD's...there have been rumblings (if not confirmed already) that Disney's next 're'cycle would be released in that format...

as for the 're'cycling itself...it's true...Walt Disney himself wanted to generate "consumer interest"...and if it ain't broke, why fix it?

and yes...there will always be some form of market for anything they release...AFTER ALL...this is the ultimatedisney forum

[Prince Adam]

michelle I love your avatars !!!!! They're so beautiful and artsy. Yesterday's Cinderella and now Bambi! WOW!

[michelle]

wOw...didn't think anyone would really notice, thanks!

its a scan of a puzzle from an insert of a disney puzzle i own...

whatta mouthful

[cokekiller]

Then it comes to the OOP issue, and this is one of those things that I find facinating about Disney. In this way they sell much more then what they would have done if they always had it availeble.

I know several people that goes bananas when they hear "Not availeble for over 10 years, and now out for a limited time only". There are a lot of people that then will by it just to be safe rather then sorry when it is OOP.
Either we like it or not, all marketing shows that this is a realy good trick for the Disney company.

Whenever OOP comes up I hear these same reasons for it. It must make Disney money. It must work for them. It's a proven practice. If it ain't broke don't fix it. But I never see any PROOF that OOP works and that it would make MORE money than if the movies were always available. Disney is a public company. If you go by financials alone. Dsiney came within a whisper of hitting $115 a share in Feb. of 1998. Today it hovers around $25 per share. You can say internet bubble bursting blah blah all you want...but Disney is NOT an internet company. It was a strong entertainment company before the internet was invented. So what happened? Obviously the wacky DVD release craziness isn't responsible for all of that but I think it plays a small but significant part.

Second...if the confusing OOP was as good a marketing trick as you claim it was....then everyone would do it! Do you really think that creating false demand and confusing your consumers about your product is a trade secret that only Disney can employ. Beleive me. If it worked as well as you claim then every company would do OOP. And they don't

I know...I know...Lucas does it too...but he is little better than Disney IMHO!

I just have serious doubts about whether this is all as planned out and researched as you think. Maybe I am not outside of the box enough but it all seems terribly unorganized and half assed to me. There can only be two reasons for that. It is so far beyond my abilities to comprehend that I can't see it...or it REALLY is unoraganized and half assed. You decide

Last no one addressed one of my most important points. The revenuse earned from 3 million units over 5 years or 3 million units in one week (from creating false demand) are the same! So what is the point. if someone is going to buy it...they will eventually. I;m no business genius (like the ones who can take a share price form $115 to $25) but it all seems goofy to me (no pun intended )

Obviously I am just thinking about this way to much. Oh...by the way...I would just pay for the tins and get them thru the club...but I have a wife barrier to get past and $126+ for a lot of cartoons is a hard one to float Haha

Plus don't even get me started on the price of DVD's. They cost about $0.05 to produce but cost $15-$30 a pop...Give me a break! Keep in mind that all of these cartoons have made back production costs many times over. Beside DVD production costs, marketing and packaging...its almost pure profit. I would think people would be more annoyed by this than they are. Disney really gets away with a lot. I guess disatisfaction is more relfected in the share price than the average ultimatedisney poster. Don't worry....no high horse here...I still buy the stuff too

Peace

[catNC]

Whenever OOP comes up I hear these same reasons for it. It must make Disney money. It must work for them. It's a proven practice. If it ain't broke don't fix it. But I never see any PROOF that OOP works and that it would make MORE money than if the movies were always available. Disney is a public company. If you go by financials alone. Dsiney came within a whisper of hitting $115 a share in Feb. of 1998. Today it hovers around $25 per share. You can say internet bubble bursting blah blah all you want...but Disney is not an internet company. It was a strong entertainment company before the internet was invented. So what happened? Obviously the wacky DVD release craziness isn't responsible for all of that but I think it plays a small but significant part.

they have had the same moratorium system ever since vhs was introduced way way back in the day, so i don't think the dvd release schedule would have in anyway caused a decrease in the stock price.

Second...if the confusing OOP was as good a marketing trick as you claim it was....then everyone would do it! Do you really think that creating false demand and confusing your consumers about your product is a trade secret that only Disney can employ. Beleive me. If it worked as well as you claim then every company would do OOP. And they don't....nuff said.

plenty of other non-disney releases go out of print.


a home video production and distribution company can in no feasible way have all titles that have ever been released being pressed all the time. sure there is a great demand for disney dvds, but i do believe that the cost of keeping all titles in production at all times would create too much of an overhead for them, especially in financial times like we are in today.

i definitely agree the system is annoying, but having seen how disney and other companies carry out their releasing system, i just buy each one as i can as soon as it is available. it is just one of those necessary evils that we have to deal with.

Obviously I am just thinking about this way to much. Oh...by the way...I would just pay for the tins and get them thru the club...but I have a wife barrier to get past and $126+ for a lot of cartoons is a hard one to float Haha

tell your wife they are not just cartoons. it's a part of history!!! my husband (he really doesn't like disney all that much) understands my obession and knows that i see them as more than cartoons, but works of art, from a film company started by one of the greatest minds of the 20th century. If you like Disney at all, you should get them. Beg and plead with your wife for them

[ddave]

On the subject of the treasures tins i agree with cokekiller. I have most of the tins but there is definatly enough demand worldwide to make both a limited edition tin and a freely available 2- disc DVD. I would have thought most people who have bought the tins are genuine fans who got them because of the content not because they are collectableor to sell them on. If you look on the different worldwide ebay sites there are regular dealers who just buy them to sell on at a profit because they know about the demand for them, if you look around you can sometimes pick them up a lot cheaper than the usual asking price - over here in UK MM colour can go for over 100 pounds sterling!!!

What i'm trying to say is that if they were available as a normal DVD it would not reduce the specialness of the "limited edition" and a lot more people could enjoy them - without some dealers making a large profit.



MM colour & silly symphonies are coming out in europe as a 2 disc DVD so it will be interesting to see how they sell.

[MutantEnemy]

goof ball just posted that you can get the Treasures in a 7 pack at costco for $125 without the tins, try that if your interested

[cokekiller]

Good news if it happens to be true....Keeping my fingers crossed

[michelle]

Whenever OOP comes up I hear these same reasons for it. It must make Disney money. It must work for them. It's a proven practice. If it ain't broke don't fix it. But I never see any PROOF that OOP works and that it would make MORE money than if the movies were always available. Disney is a public company.

We all know that Disney is a very cautious company...in all senses...they just don't like to take the risk...(or stick to something long enough to please anyone)

But, IMO, the recycling works...I mean, what would be the likelihood of someone - any average joe - just walking into a shop, and buying the DVD if they know its always going to be there?

[indianajdp]

What i'm trying to say is that if they were available as a normal DVD it would not reduce the specialness of the "limited edition" and a lot more people could enjoy them - without some dealers making a large profit.

Ahhh yes, but it would takes the "limited" out of the equation.
Like I said, for those hardcore collectors that must have everything Disney this is a HUGE factor. They truly feel they are getting a special collectible that only 125,000 other people have. It just adds an element to this whole craze that a lot of us cannot possibly understand.

[cokekiller]

But, IMO, the recycling works...I mean, what would be the likelihood of someone - any average joe - just walking into a shop, and buying the DVD if they know its always going to be there?

I don't know...what are the chances of most of us going into the store to buy the Looney Tunes Gold Collection (which is getting excellent reviews by the way) even though its always going to be available and not OOP. I think the chances are pretty high. People buy DVD's every day that aren't going OOP. I'm not sure if I agree with your reasoning. Didn't most of you buy Lion King the 1st day? It had nothing to do with the fact it was going OOP eventually. You just wanted the DVD.