The Black Hole Discussion

[GhostHost]

This is a horrible movie, makes Ed Wood's Bride of the Monster look like a great classic.
The Black Hole has a horrible nonsensical ending, can be very boring, horrible "good guy" robots(one looks like the tomatoe from the VeggieTales)
The movie is so bad it is funny, but it is still a stinker.

[creid]

I know the Black Hole is a bad movie but saying it is much worse than Ed Wood's "best" movie seems a slight exaggeration. Sure it has a great Bela performance (esp. the Vome speech) but

1) Very wooden acting by the inexperienced leads.
2) Numerous editing mistakes (The Front Door?)
3) Everybody is killed by monster made of stock footage and an immobile prop. (OK I should of put SPOILER but it is an Ed Wood movie and comes with the territory.)

Of course, like all of Ed's pre-nudie goodies, it is the experience of watching of these train wrecks that makes it fun.

CR

[dvdjunkie]

You must be seeing a different movie than me. I thought that the movie "The Black Hole" was interesting. Not great, had some great one-liners, and yes the ending was a little questionable. However it leaves it to you to decide what happened.

The acting was not the best, true, but there a lot of other Disney movies out there where the acting is a lot worse - try "Gus" on for size and see how it matches up.

Maximillian Schell, Anthony Perkins, Robert Forster, Yvette Mimieux, and Ernest Borgnine are not slouch actors and I thought their performances were good considering what they had to work with. Trying to compare this movie to Ed Woods' at his best is very unfair. While the storyline was stretched beyond imagination in places, I thought the whole moral of the story was right one.

I re-watched this film after reading the lead post and two things came to mind: 1) you must have been looking for something instead of entertainment; or, 2) you didn't see the Widescreen (2.35:1) presentation with the theatrical overture included. I really think that you are reaching for something that is not there when you try to compare this film to some of the garbage that has been released over the past thirty years.

I am proud to own "The Black Hole" and I do watch it at least twice a year.

[BlueDevilSF]

Condorman, anyone?

[dvdjunkie]

I will second that....................................!!!!!!

[musicradio77]

"The Black Hole" was a reasonable movie. It was Disney's first attempt to do a Science Fiction film. It was also the first film to carry a "PG" rating. Some of the early non-Disney films were "PG", "R" and "GP" in the early 70's. "The Black Hole" did have a "PG" rated film. Throughout the 70's, Disney released several of its films that did not have any movie rating at all except "The Black Hole". The VHS release was made in the early 80's by Walt Disney Home Entertainment (before it became Buena Vista Home Entertainment) and later re-release it by a different company known as Anchor Bay in the late 90's. I have that movie on DVD.

[GhostHost]

"The Black Hole" was a reasonable movie. It was Disney's first attempt to do a Science Fiction film. It was also the first film to carry a "PG" rating. Some of the early non-Disney films were "PG", "R" and "GP" in the early 70's. "The Black Hole" did have a "PG" rated film. Throughout the 70's, Disney released several of its films that did not have any movie rating at all except "The Black Hole". The VHS release was made in the early 80's by Walt Disney Home Entertainment (before it became Buena Vista Home Entertainment) and later re-release it by a different company known as Anchor Bay in the late 90's. I have that movie on DVD.

which movies were released without ratings during the 70s?

[musicradio77]

which movies were released without ratings during the 70s?

1. "Gus"
2. "The Apple Dumpling Gang"
3. "The Strongest Man In the World"
4. "The Barefoot Executive'
5. "Superdad"
6. "Napolean & Samantha"
7. "Hot Lead & Cold Feet"
8. "Herbie Goes to Monte Carlo"
9. "Herbie Rides Again"
10. "Snowball Express"

[Escapay]

"The Black Hole" was nothing more than Disney trying to cash in on the success of Star Wars, as other studios tried to do. I think they had good intentions when making the movie, but the state the company was in and the fact that it was more a marketing attempt than an attempt to make a good sf film hurt it.

I own "The Black Hole" and I'm sad to say that I have not sat through it in its entirety since I bought it. I'm interested in sf movies, so I picked it up, and the first half-hour bored me. Maybe if I watched it again with a different state of mind I'll be able to appreciate it.

Escapay

[Mouseketodd]

"The Black Hole" was nothing more than Disney trying to cash in on the success of Star Wars, as other studios tried to do.

"The Black Hole" was a manuscript at Disney Studios before Star Wars made it to the big screen. I don't recall names, but someone wanted very much to make TBH, but another (head of Disney Studios?) had no interest in it. I believe various hands were involved in the evolution of the story until it was given the green light -- yes, since SW was a smashing success.

If I can find some links regarding this, I'll post within this discussion.

Yes, the characters in TBH manage to survive when exposed to outer space after the Cygnus' structure was breached, but I enjoy the movie just the same. I wish Disney would clean-up the mattes and erase some wires and release a special edition -- and NOT produce a remake!

Disney's great matte artist, Peter Ellenshaw, led in the look of this movie, and his son, Harrison, was production designer. Harrison was also involved in at least "The Empire Strikes Back, " if not another SW episode.

I proudly own this movie -- having enthusiastically purchased Disney's 2004 DVD release.

[2099net]

You have to remember the situation Disney was in at the time of making the Black Hole. It wasn't making Touchstone or Hollywood Pictures films then. It was only making so-called 'children's' films, and children, being children, were excited and caught up in the "space movie" trend post-Star Wars.

In general there was a feeling Children were becoming more sophisticated, and wanted films with more depth, more action and less slapstick.

I wouldn't say Disney was cashing in on Star Wars as such, but the Black Hole fits this new desire. And the film may have the (to some) silly Bob and Vincent, but it is also wonderfully dark too. The revelation of the origins of Reinhardt's robots is a truely horiffic concept. Thankfully, the true horror of this isn't registered by young children.

I don't have a problem with the ending of the film not really making sense. But I don't think a film has to explain everything. Life doesn't explain everything and stuff still happens. The ending is a little off kilter, but again, reflects films like 2001 and Altered States (which came out the following year). Who knows, perhaps there was a science led hippy movement at that time?

The Black Hole isn't the only film Disney made with the brief of including more action, suspense and depth. They also made the wonderful Watcher In the Woods and Something Wicked This Way Comes, both of which failed commercially too (but not artistically in this person's opinion).

Interestingly, it was thought the Disney name was behind the failure of The Black Hole, Watcher In the Woods and Something Wicked This Way Comes, the latter especially, and it is said this was one of the reasons behind creating the Touchstone label.

[dvdjunkie]

Well said 2099net, you expressed to the letter exactly my same thoughts. Thanks for your input.

[Edge]

I always felt the black hole never really got its due credit.

Yes the film is flawed and nobody will ever mistake it for the creme de la creme of Sci-Fi, but the notes it does hit it hits very well.

Black Hole is an interesting story that is very mature in the sense that the robot theories and others are actually very grim. The entire story is a downward spiral in that there really is no light at the end of the tunnel.

I think people forget how ahead of its time Black Hole was. This movie was made back when Star Wars didn't yet have it's darker elements (that came with Empire) and Star Trek was still a fairly light hearted affair.

Blackhole for all its flaws was really one of the first movies to make space really "dark" and it didn't require aliens popping out of the chest to do it.

[memnv]

I have always liked the Black Hole, I remember seeing it when I was a kid in the theaters I was 11 at the time.

[yendor]

The late 1970's early 80's was an intriguing time in Disney's history. Their animated films were no longer the blockbusters of Walt's day, and their live action had lost its audience. So, they began experimenting with more sophisticated themes. That's when we saw The Black Hole; TRON; Something Wicked this way Comes; Watcher in the Woods; Return to Oz; Tex, etc. Many (if not all) of these were commercial flops, but they were decidedly different than other Disney product--it was obvious that the company was stretching its creative legs. Eventually, they hit the jackpot with Splash, followed close beyind by Down and Out in Beverly Hills and several films starring a resurgent Bette Midler. After that, they never looked back. Not only did Disney became a "player" in the realm of R and PG rated film fare, it revitalized its animation unit and also began producing high quality (and very popular) television shows, like The Golden Girls.

I saw The Black Hole during the Christmas of 1979 and really didn't expect much. Though I'd been raised on Disney (I'm 52 now and was 27 in 1979), I'd long before grown tired of their formula. Nonetheless, I bought a ticket to see The Black Hole because it appeared that Disney was trying their hand at sci-fi.

Several aspects of the production impressed me:

(1) The black hole itself was a great piece of animated work. Seen from afar, it was on par with anything in Star Wars.

(2) The production design was top-notch. And the effects themselves were well-done, again on par with Star Wars.

(3) I appreciated the acting team, and certainly they had the chops to work magic with the script. Alas, the script let them down.

(4) Max Schell's ship was a sight to behold. I really liked the scenes of it floating in space.

Now for the drawbacks:

(1) The robot voiced by Roddy McDowall. Though I've always like McDowell and felt his voice was effective, I really hated the robot's design--with those two big painted eyeballs. And the "old west" sidekick was just too cartoony and didn't fit in at all with the rest of the film. Plus, there were times when I could see the strings holding up the robots, which didn't help!

(2) The "evil robots" were poorly done, and I never once felt a threat from them.

(3) The climactic slip into the black hole should've been an explosion of special effects. After all, it had been building up to that moment throughout the entire film. Instead, we get some odd, cheap-looking visuals, a "trip to hell" that made absolutely no sense, and poof! They emerge from the other side of the black hole without so much as a dented rocket booster.

I thought the film, thematically, had much more in common with 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea than Star Wars. It was an interesting attempt on Disney's part to appearl to the more sophisticated 70's teen audience, but they were afraid to let loose completely. As a result, they still inserted cloying "kiddie" themes (like the robots) that dragged everything down.

Still, I find that period in Disney's history to be completely fascinating. Many of the films produced--like Something Wicked and Watcher in the Woods--have generated cult followings and are ripe for re-evaluation. I bought both those films when they were on the Anchor Bay label and enjoyed them immensely.

Let's hear from fans of those films!

Rod

[GhostHost]

how is the Black Hole a flop? According to the IMDB it grosed 35,841,901 in the US with a budget of only 18,500,000 estimated.

[memnv]

dosnt sound like a flop

[yendor]

The Black Hole may have made back its budget, but for a Christmas release--what is commonly referred to as a "tentpole picture" for a major studio--it had disappointing returns at the box-office. Especially considering that three previous science fiction films (Star Wars; Close Encounters, and Alien) were not only critical triumphs but raked in consderable $$$ at the box-office. Rest assured, Disney was hoping (praying?) to tap into this cash pipeline with their similar product, and it just didn't happen.

Also, a good sign that Disney themselves considered a film a flop is when they allowed Anchor Bay Entertainment to release it to DVD. That happened to The Black Hole, as well as The Watcher in the Woods, The Happiest Millionaire (a big disappointment for Walt), and Something Wicked this way Comes (among several others).

Rod

[Maerj]

As one of those kids in the 70's who was excited over Star Wars (and still am!) I recall running out to the theaters to see the Black Hole with my folks and really enjoying it. It was a dark, even creepy film with things like the zombified crew and that ending, but it was a fun ride.

When I got the film on DVD, I watched the ending right away. It was as strange as I remembered. It just seemed so different than the rest of the film... I dunno. I still look at it and see the people walking in those lines and seeing that robot on the mountain...weird!

[memnv]

I feel the same way as you about this movie Maerj