Moral Integrity (and Reselling Rare Disney DVDs)

[slash]

I've been noticing a really disturbing trend over here at the forums. I've realized many people buy and hold on to their vaulted Disney DVD's until Disney decides to re-release them. Once Disney does this, these people quickly go out and sell their old one's on EBay for maximum profit. I myself have never been affected by this lowly practice because 1) I follow the Disney release dates and 2) even if I didn't, I would never pay over $25 for a DVD. However, the morale bankrupcy of people doing this still bothers me quite a lot. I've been raised on Disney values and believe that when you deliver a service to a person, you charge them properly for that service. I would never try to push something that is only worth $10 and sell it for $100. It is morally wrong and bankrupt. I am not against selling all Disney DVD's, just the scamming people when someone finds out the value is going to crash. For example, I would have no problem with people selling Snow White for $70.00 now. The value of this collectible might rise further and $70.00 is it's real value. However, if Disney announces that they are rereleasing it in 3 months, dropping the value of the DVD to $15.00, but they can still sell it for $70.00 because certain people don't know yet it's not worth that much, then they are in essence acting immorally and scamming people. Anyways, what do you think of this practice?

[chaychay102royal]

I think it's okay. It's not the seller but the buyer. See, with things like Antiques Roadshowand classic items going on Ebay, people realize that Masterpiece Editions may lack special features--they're still very rare and very old. People value them because of how rare they are. Wouldn't you love to have an original edition of your favorite book? Even if it had a little dust on it and the cover art was dull, you'd love it even more because it's still the original thing.

That's the way people feel about these Disney DVDs.

[Luke]

I've got to disagree with you to some degree. On eBay, a DVD sells if someone is willing to pay whatever amount the auction ascends to. In fact, you are selling the DVD at its current eBay value. If a re-release comes out several months later and the value of the earlier DVD lowers, then so be it. I personally don't see how it's different if Disney's officially announced something (and say you found out through this site) versus something being rumored to be in the works (say Little Mermaid: Platinum Edition in October of next year...also found at this site).

Plus you're somewhat assuming that the hypothetical eBay buyer is willing to wait or wants something with all the possible bonus features there are. You didn't say this, but what would alter the price of a soon-to-be-inferior disc? It being in-print again, or more likely, being upgraded with a new release. For some people, the immediate need to have an out-of-print DVD is worth it, regardless of if a special edition is coming out six months from now.

Ignorance is not an excuse for paying more for something than you should. Anyone with a DVD player (which is a majority of the local population now) should know that studios release different versions of things and before they pay $70 for a DVD that's to be upgraded in a couple of months, it's up to them to do the research and be sure they're not paying more than they should. And that's where we (UD) come in. Furthermore, some people know that a better or different version is coming out and they still want the old disc for some reason or another (bonus features might be dropped, movie might be altered). I've seen it happen here when a couple of people bought the Gold Collection of <i>Pocahontas</i> after news of the 10th Anniversary Edition broke.

So to sum up this long-winded post, I don't think there's any immorality involved with selling an out-of-print DVD to get money and make space for an upcoming new version. The market decides the price and you are under no obligation to inform people that the value could drop. That occurs naturally anyway. Nonetheless, it's a compelling topic and one more interesting to discuss than what's got a slipcover and what doesn't.

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

I agree with ChayChay that I think it's fine. You not doing anything illegal. Besides some time it can become a higly collectable peice of merchandise so it could be the seller who is getting ripped of because they are selling it too soon!

[TM2-Megatron]

I think it's okay. It's not the seller but the buyer. See, with things like Antiques Roadshowand classic items going on Ebay, people realize that Masterpiece Editions may lack special features--they're still very rare and very old. People value them because of how rare they are. Wouldn't you love to have an original edition of your favorite book? Even if it had a little dust on it and the cover art was dull, you'd love it even more because it's still the original thing.

That's the way people feel about these Disney DVDs.

I'm not sure it's accurate comparing older Disney DVDs to first edition books. For the most part a book's a book, and a first edition's text will be identical to any reprint you can buy; with the added bonus of it being an original copy. The Masterpiece DVDs, on the other hand, are inferior to any new edition in every way. Were they even in anamorphic widescreen?

[orestes.]

I agree with what Luke said. I'm one of those people who just had to buy a DVD even though I know a new release is coming a year away. I bought 'Lady and the Tramp' Limited Issue and it was actually a bootleg. I knew the risks but it did sound real. It was very convincing and the selller swore it was real but nope. I could not wait. That movie is really becoming one of my all time favourites from Disney. (I really hope they release a CE next year)

If you want a DVD so badly off of eBay do the research. There are some real "lowlifes" on eBay and a lot of foolish buyers.

I want to continue this but I'll just end up babbling even more.

[littlefuzzy]

If I were willing to pay $75 for an OOP DVD, I would make very sure that it wasn't going to be released again anytime soon.

If I didn't do the research, then it is my fault.

This also applies to buying bootlegs... If I found a $25 buy-it-now auction for The Little Mermaid or something, I would make very sure that it wasn't a bootleg. Anything that is "too good to be true" usually is...

[chaychay102royal]

I think it's okay. people realize that Masterpiece Editions may lack special features--they're still very rare and very old. People value them because of how rare they are. Wouldn't you love to have an original edition of your favorite book? Even if it had a little dust on it and the cover art was dull, you'd love it even more because it's still the original thing.

I'm not sure it's accurate comparing older Disney DVDs to first edition books. For the most part a book's a book, and a first edition's text will be identical to any reprint you can buy; with the added bonus of it being an original copy. The Masterpiece DVDs, on the other hand, are inferior to any new edition in every way. Were they even in anamorphic widescreen?

I see what you mean, however some may buy a Masterpiece DVD because of its growing value? *shrug* I personally wouldn't buy one for any piece higher than like two dollars. I'm very willing to wait for special editions and Platinums before I buy one of those.

[slash]

The question becomes are you really selling a DVD at it's current value on EBay or are you taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge by selling on EBay? When you start asking yourself certain questions, the answer becomes obvious. For example, If it's the DVD true value, why is it that people don't advertise the fact that Disney is rereleasing in a few months? If it's the DVD true value, Why is it that people rush to sell their DVD's asap once they hear the news of a new release? It really becomes apparent that it's because they are taking advantage of people's ignorance and knowingly sell an item that is only worth $10 at it's old price of $70. It's analagous to selling a stock that's worth $10 today for $70, yesterday's closing price.
While it's true that ignorance is no excuse, ignorance is a problem the consumer has. I'm more concerned about the morale integrity of the seller. My question is how do you feel about selling it yourself. How does it feel knowing that you are in essence ripping people off and relying on the fact that they don't know the entire story. While extreme, I find it analagous to the tobacco industry selling people cigarettes without any warnings even though they might know better. *Sighs* I guess consumers could have always done their own research and checked out government reports. *Sighs*

[Luke]

I think it's because they are taking advantage of people's ignorance and knowingly sell an item that is only worth $10 at it's old price of $70. It's analagous to selling a stock that's worth $10 today for $70, yesterday's closing price.
While it's true that ignorance is no excuse, but that is a problem with the consumer. My question is how do you feel about selling it yourself. How does it feel knowing that you are in essence ripping people off that don't know the entire story. How does it feel to rely on people's ignorance to sell them that piece for that much.

Seems like a reasonable enough analogy, but the thing with eBay is most auctions start at a low price and work their way up. This is even true of auctions for rare out-of-print DVDs. You start an auction at $9.99 and it winds up going for $60 - maybe it's because of bidder ignorance, maybe it's because people really want the movie now. In any event, how is one to be blamed that people are driving up the price on a DVD that will later go down in price?

[Lars Vermundsberget]

I certainly see the point of the initial post and I think the point is a somewhat valid one. But like most of the respondents, I really wouldn't bother about morals here. Anyone who's ready to pay $70 or whatever for a DVD should do the research himself.

[Sailor Eric]

Seems like a reasonable enough analogy, but the thing with eBay is most auctions start at a low price and work their way up. This is even true of auctions for rare out-of-print DVDs. You start an auction at $9.99 and it winds up going for $60 - maybe it's because of bidder ignorance, maybe it's because people really want the movie now. In any event, how is one to be blamed that people are driving up the price on a DVD that will later go down in price?

That is soooo true. I've seen plenty of auctioned items at ebay that start at $0.99 where the final bid turns out to be WAAAY more than that.

But I do agree that it's not nice to take advantage of those who might not know something. Sometimes you just don't find things out and therefore are 'ignorant' on the issue.

[Mr. Toad]

I agree with Lars. All of the information is readily available on the internet. Anyone that into Disney or any other thing must be somewhat aware of the facts or at least should be. Cavaet Emptor.

[cydney]

Anyone who's ready to pay $70 or whatever for a DVD should do the research himself.

I agree.

I think that if someone's gonna go and track down an OOP DVD on Ebay thats over priced without researching it ahead of time, deserves to get ripped off (IMO). It's not that hard to find information about a DVD coming out or even rumors of it coming out again. Also, they could easily find it somewhere cheaper if they have enough patience, it just requires a little searching.

[Sunset Girl]

Oh, I don't know. . . I mean, there's always gonna be people out looking for an easy buck, but I'm not one of 'em. And I'd probably be better off if I was. When you think about it, a DVD is only worth what someone else is willing to pay, anyway.

People have every right to stock up on (or shall I say invest in) anything in the hopes that the value will go up at a later date. Eh, people can do what they want with their money, and the practice of doing this is ethical enough. But I also think it's sad.

This reminds me of an article I read years and years ago about comic books. Some creators were asked how they felt about collecters buying issues of their work, only for them to "double-mylar 'em" and tuck them away without even reading them in hopes that they could later sell them at a profit? Was it sad that the buyer had no plans to actually read them, which is the whole point of it being created in the first place?

Somehow this makes the art seem pointless.

[Lightyear]

I look at it like this.. Selling on Ebay is like running a company.. They are responsible only for accurate description of the item, It is I the consumer who is responsible to research a product.

I'll agree slash with you only under the situations like Pocahontas.. Where it's re-released allready and I see those selling the older version for high prices. They are the individuals that are trying to make the big bucks on someone's chance of being un-informed.


But, I also blame the bid without researching.. It's like going to the car dealership with a blank check and saying "I'll take it, you fill it out".. And then getting angry when the dealer wrote 100,000 on the check.. Should have researched some.

Me personally.. I know little mermaid will be out in a year and a half.. but I'm still look'n for a copy now and will continue to look for a copy. Part of my collecting disney animated DVD's will involve all versions of the movie.

[Lightyear]

This reminds me of an article I read years and years ago about comic books. Some creators were asked how they felt about collecters buying issues of their work, only for them to "double-mylar 'em" and tuck them away without even reading them in hopes that they could later sell them at a profit? Was it sad that the buyer had no plans to actually read them, which is the whole point of it being created in the first place?

Somehow this makes the art seem pointless.

I see this differently.... The majority (at least in my younger days) of comic books purchased were kids, or for kids.. Now we all know a kid can't keep anything in somewhat mint to good to readable condition (I know some can). Or they are thrown out, mom's throw them out.. whatever the case may be. Collectors preserve the art by saving it and protecting it.. Allowing next generations to see the original print instead of a copy of the book in cyberspace. Yeah, the motivation behind it is to make a buck.. But the time and effort put into the preservation is in my mind acceptable for them to want a profit from it.

If nobody protected or collected.. We wouldn't have any copies of the earliest comic books to look at , or be able to acquire.

[Sunset Girl]

I see this differently.... The majority (at least in my younger days) of comic books purchased were kids, or for kids.. Now we all know a kid can't keep anything in somewhat mint to good to readable condition (I know some can). Or they are thrown out, mom's throw them out.. whatever the case may be. Collectors preserve the art by saving it and protecting it.. Allowing next generations to see the original print instead of a copy of the book in cyberspace. Yeah, the motivation behind it is to make a buck.. But the time and effort put into the preservation is in my mind acceptable for them to want a profit from it.

If nobody protected or collected.. We wouldn't have any copies of the earliest comic books to look at , or be able to acquire.

Hey, that's a great way to look at it!

[indianajdp]

Very interesting discussion, slash.

The thing that I have a problem with is someone that will go out and buy 50 copies of a DVD just to hoarde and sell en masse years later. That takes product (potentially) out of the hands of someone that would truly enjoy the film. INstead that person may have to visit three more stores and possibly pay a bit more now (or even more on eBay) to get the film.

As for selling at obscene profits on eBay, well, unless they set high reserves it's all about supply-and-demand. If buyers are willing (and when you have folks bidding on plastic bags full of air, chances are they ARE willing) to push the bids up it's hard to find fault with a seller. They are merely listing an item for sale and the marketplace is dictating that price.

[Sunset Girl]

Very interesting discussion, slash.

The thing that I have a problem with is someone that will go out and buy 50 copies of a DVD just to hoarde and sell en masse years later. That takes product (potentially) out of the hands of someone that would truly enjoy the film. INstead that person may have to visit three more stores and possibly pay a bit more now (or even more on eBay) to get the film.

Yeah, that's something else I thought of when I talked about the comic books. I actually think that happens a lot with DVD's that have a limited availability and can be hard to find in the first place, like certain Disney Treasures sets.