OH, and I'm adopted. Thank heavens I wasn't sucked out of my biological mother's uterus and ripped into a million pieces.
Adoption is much easier for the biological mother than you would think. It's the adoptive parents that have to go through hell to get a baby.
The Abortion Thread: The Worth of Unborn Humans
catNC>I completely agree with you. But education is out there. As is counseling. 2 of my friends had abortions and they got both. The were told of all the psychological and physical effects it may have on them. Especially the psychological. One had it done about 10 years ago, the other 3. They are doing all right. And when I first asked the doctor about abortion, I was educated. Got a LOOOOOOOOONG speech.
And the abortion doctor doesn't need to provide couseling anyways. Least by law now, though I wouldn't be opposed to requiring them, certainly. It's nice, yes. And a recommendation should be made of a counseler they prefer. But they don't need to provide it. Counselers are but a Yellow Pages and a phone call away and that's for ANYTHING.
And the abortion doctor doesn't need to provide couseling anyways. Least by law now, though I wouldn't be opposed to requiring them, certainly. It's nice, yes. And a recommendation should be made of a counseler they prefer. But they don't need to provide it. Counselers are but a Yellow Pages and a phone call away and that's for ANYTHING.
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Sunset Girl
I don't have a whole lot of new things to say on the issue (yet) so I'd like to start with some things I have said in another thread:
And of course, if any of us had been aborted, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about it. My parents were done having kids before I came along, and I wasn't exactly planned so late in their lives. But here I am.
Yeah, counselors are there if you have the money or insurance. I wiped myself out financialy over a different matter a few years ago. Do you know how impossible it is to get finacial aid if you're not a single mother? I almost wish I had been "young and stupid" for a lot of reasons, mostly because I'd die to have a child right now. I cry on a regular basis because I want so badly to get pregnant. And then I hear stories about how my best friend's sister wanted to keep her second pregnancy secret and planned to have an abortion? I get so angry when I think of how the mom considered to steal the chance to live away from that beautiful little girl because she didn't want to deal with having another baby. Thankfully, she didn't go through with it.
Don't take this as an overly-religious angle, but we are not God. I don't believe we have to right to decide which babies should live on and which should die because "oops, the condom broke" or "I was young and stupid." I thnk the unborn child has the right to live on and have a chance to overcome those obstacles that fuel the whole abortion debate.As for the abortion issue, I think our society is so totally screwed up. How much is being done on the prevention of unwanted pregnancies? Why is abortion an easy way out? Maybe if more people could be open about sexuality it wouldn't be such a tempting taboo.
As I've said earlier in this thread, with having sex comes a huge responsibility. The only 100% effective contraceptive is abstinence, but if you insist on the deed, be prepared to accept the responsibility for the fact that you may be concieving a child despite any precautions you might be taking.
That's the problem; people don't feel they need to be held accountable for their actions. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to carry the guilt of having my unborn baby killed because I screwed up and didn't want to deal with it. Some of the babies that aren't killed off in the womb do end up in happy homes, but there are so many more that end up being neglected or abused.
. . .
So I don't believe in abortions. Yet at the same time, it isn't fair to the unwanted child to be born into misery, but the system just isn't capable of handling each individual case as well as we'd like. Sigh. The answers are never easy.
Of course, you also have to realize that not all abortions are carried out because the mother and/or father were being irresponsible. What about cases of rape or incest? What about the cases where the pregnancy puts the mother's life in danger? Or even cases where it's found that the baby will be born severely deformed?
Like I keep saying, there aren't any easy answers, and I don't think that dismissing whole groups of people with a short-sighted label is going to get us anywhere.
And of course, if any of us had been aborted, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about it. My parents were done having kids before I came along, and I wasn't exactly planned so late in their lives. But here I am.
Yeah, counselors are there if you have the money or insurance. I wiped myself out financialy over a different matter a few years ago. Do you know how impossible it is to get finacial aid if you're not a single mother? I almost wish I had been "young and stupid" for a lot of reasons, mostly because I'd die to have a child right now. I cry on a regular basis because I want so badly to get pregnant. And then I hear stories about how my best friend's sister wanted to keep her second pregnancy secret and planned to have an abortion? I get so angry when I think of how the mom considered to steal the chance to live away from that beautiful little girl because she didn't want to deal with having another baby. Thankfully, she didn't go through with it.
Look hard enough and you can find free counselors. I did through a local chapter of ACT. She was a wonderful counselor for when I was going through my eating disorders. But I ultimatly stopped going because at the time, I didn't want help from an adult. I did get help, through an online support group who also happened to be real good friends, even before I needed help.
Sometimes you don't need a certified counselor. A support group, online or off can do just as good of job.
And though I am not a certified counselor, I have counseled teenagers online and off. From everything like boy crazy to suicide. Am I totally comfortable counseling in these situations? No, a year of college psychology doesn't make me an expert. As I said, I am not certified. But if they won't go anywhere else and I am the only adult they trust, then I am willing to help them. Most of what I have counseled for, I went through as well.
Sometimes you don't need a certified counselor. A support group, online or off can do just as good of job.
And though I am not a certified counselor, I have counseled teenagers online and off. From everything like boy crazy to suicide. Am I totally comfortable counseling in these situations? No, a year of college psychology doesn't make me an expert. As I said, I am not certified. But if they won't go anywhere else and I am the only adult they trust, then I am willing to help them. Most of what I have counseled for, I went through as well.
let´s see the both sides:
Pro-Abortion:
Case 1:
Girly the girl is a normal student, and she is cute.
One day she walks on the street when someone attack her and rape her.
She have now psycologial an physical traumas, she will have to leave school because she is pregnat and her self-steem is lower that Eisner´s popularity.Her life is destroyed.
She will have to leave the school because a pregnat woman can´t be on the school.This child will not be loved because it doesn´t represent th love between tho persons, but a terrific act of lust.
Her life,destroyed because of someone else fault and lust, why does she have to pay this high price?
Case 2:
Mrs. X is a normal familly woman,mother of three childs and lovely wife of a middle-class guy.
She have the bare money to pay food,school and bills, and if lucky or fate wants to, some entretaiment like a movie.Now she´s pregnat
As a pregnat woman, she will need special cares and eat more because now she will eat for two.
She, as a good mother will not let their children abandon school or stop feeding them, this will cause that the new kid will born with a nutritional problem that it will require special and expensive medicine and food.
The new child will born, but he will not grow propperly;he will be a child,but not a happy child but on who will ned to work for help the familly.
Case 3:
Notequiero, a little children is an orphan child who lives on a orphans´s house(Duuh...) waiting and wondering every day to get out of his home to a new house, with his new and loving parents.
He wonder every day while he looks at the window and he run everytime he see someone aproaching to the building,because he wants to be clean and cute for that person, so he love him and adopt him.
Sadly,it doesn´t happen but he doesn´t lose his hope.
Spring become winter,ays turs into years and what once was a child today is a man.But is not a normal man as you or I.
He hasn´t had love or someone who take care of him, he doesn´t had any toys,he didn´t studied anythin or knowed something about world.
He is not a child who becomed man, but a child who died slowly, one bit everydy his hope fainted and reallity slapped him on his face.
He is not a grown up, but a kid who lose his childhood and hope.
Case 4:
Mrs. Y will have an abortion, but as a illegal act this can´t be done on an hospital but on a hidden place.
Any respectable doctor will do it because this is murder and they risk to be sued, or even get in jail.
The abortion begin with a rare object similar to a vacum cleaner who will destroy the fetus slowly.
Three monts later, she discoverd something weird and she goes to an hospital, 2 hours later is entering to the E.R. because of an hysterectomy.
This could be stopped making the abortion legal, because new and better methods and techniques could be developed to protect the woman and give the fetus a proper death.
Pro-life side:
Life is a gift of God to the humans, and is madewith lve and dedication.
Since the ovolus and the spermatozoa life begins, and the new baby begin to form itself.
A new baby is a miracle, a blessing non seen every day that represent the love between two persons turnd into a living being.
Man can´t destroy life, because is a sin, and we have no right to destroy on a few minutes what God created.
A non-wanted children must not be tken as a punishment because a wrong choice(because the lack of info or education)but as an oportunity to learn and to educate, to become teacher and protect a little of your mistakes and faults, to become a student and learn about life and being parent by the very example and act.
MAybe you can´t take care of the child,but I´m shure that out there is someone who would gladly do it, who will teach him and feed him, who will love him and give him presents on birthdays and christmas.
Abortion is not the awnser,but a way to destroy the problem,literally.
this method is no more but a murder, an infanticide where the little one can´t defend himself because he depends totally of his mother.
Abortion is a cruel way of die,riped part by part, limb by limb or being burned slowly with a salty solution.
There is no humanity on this, and it can´t be called something that only an animal would do because only humans abort.This is just an atrocity.
IMO, I can´t say I´m pro or against abortion completely, because every case is different and we can´t predict future, so we could kill the next Hitler, or the next Joan Paul II
Pro-Abortion:
Case 1:
Girly the girl is a normal student, and she is cute.
One day she walks on the street when someone attack her and rape her.
She have now psycologial an physical traumas, she will have to leave school because she is pregnat and her self-steem is lower that Eisner´s popularity.Her life is destroyed.
She will have to leave the school because a pregnat woman can´t be on the school.This child will not be loved because it doesn´t represent th love between tho persons, but a terrific act of lust.
Her life,destroyed because of someone else fault and lust, why does she have to pay this high price?
Case 2:
Mrs. X is a normal familly woman,mother of three childs and lovely wife of a middle-class guy.
She have the bare money to pay food,school and bills, and if lucky or fate wants to, some entretaiment like a movie.Now she´s pregnat
As a pregnat woman, she will need special cares and eat more because now she will eat for two.
She, as a good mother will not let their children abandon school or stop feeding them, this will cause that the new kid will born with a nutritional problem that it will require special and expensive medicine and food.
The new child will born, but he will not grow propperly;he will be a child,but not a happy child but on who will ned to work for help the familly.
Case 3:
Notequiero, a little children is an orphan child who lives on a orphans´s house(Duuh...) waiting and wondering every day to get out of his home to a new house, with his new and loving parents.
He wonder every day while he looks at the window and he run everytime he see someone aproaching to the building,because he wants to be clean and cute for that person, so he love him and adopt him.
Sadly,it doesn´t happen but he doesn´t lose his hope.
Spring become winter,ays turs into years and what once was a child today is a man.But is not a normal man as you or I.
He hasn´t had love or someone who take care of him, he doesn´t had any toys,he didn´t studied anythin or knowed something about world.
He is not a child who becomed man, but a child who died slowly, one bit everydy his hope fainted and reallity slapped him on his face.
He is not a grown up, but a kid who lose his childhood and hope.
Case 4:
Mrs. Y will have an abortion, but as a illegal act this can´t be done on an hospital but on a hidden place.
Any respectable doctor will do it because this is murder and they risk to be sued, or even get in jail.
The abortion begin with a rare object similar to a vacum cleaner who will destroy the fetus slowly.
Three monts later, she discoverd something weird and she goes to an hospital, 2 hours later is entering to the E.R. because of an hysterectomy.
This could be stopped making the abortion legal, because new and better methods and techniques could be developed to protect the woman and give the fetus a proper death.
Pro-life side:
Life is a gift of God to the humans, and is madewith lve and dedication.
Since the ovolus and the spermatozoa life begins, and the new baby begin to form itself.
A new baby is a miracle, a blessing non seen every day that represent the love between two persons turnd into a living being.
Man can´t destroy life, because is a sin, and we have no right to destroy on a few minutes what God created.
A non-wanted children must not be tken as a punishment because a wrong choice(because the lack of info or education)but as an oportunity to learn and to educate, to become teacher and protect a little of your mistakes and faults, to become a student and learn about life and being parent by the very example and act.
MAybe you can´t take care of the child,but I´m shure that out there is someone who would gladly do it, who will teach him and feed him, who will love him and give him presents on birthdays and christmas.
Abortion is not the awnser,but a way to destroy the problem,literally.
this method is no more but a murder, an infanticide where the little one can´t defend himself because he depends totally of his mother.
Abortion is a cruel way of die,riped part by part, limb by limb or being burned slowly with a salty solution.
There is no humanity on this, and it can´t be called something that only an animal would do because only humans abort.This is just an atrocity.
IMO, I can´t say I´m pro or against abortion completely, because every case is different and we can´t predict future, so we could kill the next Hitler, or the next Joan Paul II
-
Sunset Girl
Well I'm sure that there is, but at the time I was not in any position to hunt one down. I was so lost in my misery that I was barely able to make myself go to the initial depression screening. I thought of suicide constantly, started to abuse alcohol, and couldn't even make it out of bed half the time. I didn't feel I was worth the effort to get better.Siren wrote:Look hard enough and you can find free counselors.
Some appointments got set up for me, and my therapist actually recommended a free group therapy session at the local hospital. That didn't work out so well; nobody was qualified and the patients began to argue over who was going through the most misery. The group lasted a whole three sessions.
I don't think that a counselor *has* to be certified or go through a certain amount of schooling, but it certainly helps. It really depends on the situation, though. Personally, now that I've gotten through a few things, I would love to offer some counseling to people that need someone to relate to. I pretty much do that for the kids I work with, anyway; I'm the one they go to when they have a problem. On the other hand, another time I tried helping out a kid with problems she ended up turning on me and I was put under investigation.
This seems like a contiuation of the now locked Rosie/Meltdown thread. Although given a quick scan of the posts in this thread (I'm at work) everything seems civil, I've decided to lock this thread (for the same reasons as the Rosie/Meltdown thead). I also feel the subtitle of the thread is designed to bring out high emotions.
It's a tough decision, but I think this is right. Generally it should not be considered good practice to revive a topic of a locked thread by starting a new one.
If Luke or another moderator want to unlock this thead, then they are free to do so.
It's a tough decision, but I think this is right. Generally it should not be considered good practice to revive a topic of a locked thread by starting a new one.
If Luke or another moderator want to unlock this thead, then they are free to do so.
Most of my Blu-ray collection some of my UK discs aren't on their database
I have no problem whatsoever with forum members discussing topics like this, but when they're started from the angle of "If you disagree with me, you're wrong and dangerous", they appear designed not to promote discussion but to rile up people and get a rise from them. This isn't a put-your-dukes-up-and-let's-fight forum. It's a <i>discussion</i> forum and while topics like this can certainly be useful and I wish they could go on, a thread like this seems entirely tailored to condeming and insulting those who do not share your seemingly close-minded view. Lazario, your first post here is pushing an agenda when it should be starting a discussion.
So, I must agree with another moderator closing. I really wish topics like this would be able to be discussed with cool heads and open minds instead of insults and pointed statements.
So, I must agree with another moderator closing. I really wish topics like this would be able to be discussed with cool heads and open minds instead of insults and pointed statements.