The Abortion Thread: The Worth of Unborn Humans

[Lazario]

I haven't been here in a few days, so I don't know if there was another thread on this topic in that time. So sorry to the admins if this isn't the first specialized/separate post on this subject.

So my point of view is that these people who get so upset (they are usually incredibly ignorant) about anything that might one day develop into a real human being aborted/terminated don't have the first clue why abortion is necessary and they don't get the full scope of it. They truly focus singularly on the rights of some unborn person and screw the rights of the living mother. They assume that adoption and child care will magically take the responsibility off the hands of parents, but this is simply not true.

The only hope any child has of making it after an unwanted birth is if the mother has an arragement to give the baby up after it's born. But no one has the right to tell that mother she must give birth. Men just inherently want control over a woman's body and this is the final frontier- if abortion is ever deemed illegal, women will have no more sacred rights. Rapists are still getting off right and left, and several times (too numerous to mention), rapists have gotten rights over the children of their victims. WAKE UP! Abortion is not pleasent for anyone involved. But it is a necessary evil. And if you don't agree with it, you are not just simply wrong- you are dangerous. And you don't respect the rights of women, regardless of what gender you are.

Any women who don't believe/agree with abortion have no experience in being pregnant or knowing anyone very intimately who has gone through this type of experience. I have. My mother and friends of mine have had to have abortions. Each time it was because either they were raped or the condom has broken (this happens a lot more times than anyone's willing to believe). Every time it has happened, I wished abortions could have been illegal or that we didn't need them, because it is the most HORRIFYING experience a woman can go through (with the possible exception of left-for-dead brutalized rape).

Now, you could not imagine the things that have been said to these women I know, the pressure conservative men and their stupid families (the perfect arguement for birth control right here) to not only have the children but to keep them. These men did not care that no one I know was finacially stable enough to have the children. These people just expect the people to have the children and let the children suffer inadequate health care and home care. The mothers, in cases with teenage mothers at my school who wanted to keep their children, have to work (neglecting their own potential for college-level education, and the right source for funding a child's life and needs) and trust that their children will be alright with friends, neighbors, and daycare. All of these teenage mothers I knew have not been successful in their young mothering ventures. One girl died, her child is now in the system somewhere. One girl overdosed on drugs when her boyfriend and main financial supporter was murdered at work, the child was kidnapped by a child molester who worked at some kind of halfway house place where single mothers stayed and recieved some kind of drug rehabilitation.

No one really cares about the kids after they are born. Everyone is just so self-righteous and obsessed with how much of a hero they think being pro-life makes them sound. And it's unrealistic to say "well she shouldn't have had sex." EXCUSE ME? I suppose she got pregnant on her own, then? No, morons- it takes two to tango.

And where in the living hell is the blame placed on men? Are we supposed to believe that men aren't at all responsible for this? That men aren't whores when they want the pregnancy terminated? A man or teenaged boy gets a girl/woman pregnant and he gets to walk off scott-free, say he doesn't want to support her, and everyone sympathizes with that? That's exactly the way things are. The woman is expected to make all the sacrifices for the child. If she does keep it, and she's underaged or 18 and older, her education and life ambitions can suffer. But a guy, whether he's a school scholar or an athlete, gets the message that the girl involved can't mess up his potential life/career with her unpredictable body. Where the hell is the concern for what might happen to this kids when they're dating (or he's date-raping her)??? So, Little Red Henski, don't you DARE call a girl/woman a "whore" because she chooses to abort her baby. Who cares about your disgust anyway?

[Raydawggie]

Oh, this is going to get ugly fast.

[Lazario]

What makes you say that? The reputation for opponents of abortion to be thoughtless, selfish, and ignorant?

[Raydawggie]

And the reputation of some abortion-rights supporters to be overly defensive and aggressive. It just seems to be one of those issues that people can't discuss civilly. Probably because there's no real middle ground on it.

[Lazario]

If there was a middle ground, do you have a clue what that would be? I don't. This is just one of those topics where there is no room for middle ground. No one should ever have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body. Some people want to, and if we give them the power, we are making a huge mistake. And it's also really no one's business why a woman would want to abort her child in the first place.

If it seems that the pro-choice side is aggressive, perhaps people should think about why that is...

[Siren]

Oh, this is going to get ugly fast.

Agreed.

I might put in my opionons. But otherwise I will A.) Sit back and watch the fireworks with popcorn at my side or B.) Find better things to do with my time.

I have yet to see one civil debate about this subject. It always comes down to "I'm right, you're not only wrong, but a worthless idiot and maybe you should have been aborted.". I don't know how many times I've seen that line in some way/shape/form on these "debates". Actually I think my point has already been proven so far when this thread is in it's infancy. Don't worry, I bet you less then a month, I will get to say "I told you so" again

[Lazario]

Oh, Siren... Don't you think I've always been good at these debates? I don't remember ever degrading myself to calling people "idiots". At least, not lately.

It all comes down to the fact that no one who is anti-abortion has ever understood why they are necessary in the first place. They refuse to think beyond their truly narrow-minded point of view. So, let us let those people's selfishness speak for itself. Even if no one replies to this topic, which is what I expect to happen. No one willing to put those all-important opinions down for scrutiny as I have.

My points are usually straight-up ignored by people who think abortion is the ultimate evil. If they ever really looked at what I have said, their arguements would fall apart.


And in fact, why the hell are we still talking so much about what makes a topic a topic? Doing that so much, we devalue the subject the post is about.

[orestes.]

I won't debate but personally I'm pro-choice. I just hope whoever decides to get an abortion has thought it through and has a good reason to do so. I also think that anyone who thinks they are ready for sex better be prepared to face consequences such as an STD or pregnancy.

I'll never have an abortion, obviously, so I'll never know what it would be like to have that question in my mind if I should or should not go through with one.

People should start worrying about themselves more than what other people do with their bodies.

[Siren]

Oh, Siren... Don't you think I've always been good at these debates? I don't remember ever degrading myself to calling people "idiots". At least, not lately.

You come pretty close to calling people idiots with...

So my point of view is that these people who get so upset (they are usually incredibly ignorant)

So anyone who opposes abortion is incredibly ignorant? That's like saying if your not Christian, you're incredibly ignorant. Or if you aren't gay, you're incredibly ignorant.

Not everyone bases their views on full religion. Some base it on their own simple morals. Other science, where as they feel if it was a beating heart and a developing brain, then it is living and breathing, it should be allowed to come full term.

The one who seems to be getting very upset and no one is even aruging about the topic at hand yet.

And in case it means anything, I for pro-choice when it comes to abortion. But I am also pro-being able to state your beliefs without being talked down to. I am perfectly fine with someone saying "You are wrong." when it comes to abortion. Because, there is no right or easy answers when it involved the life and death of an unborn child.

[DaveWadding]

I won't debate but personally I'm pro-choice. I just hope whoever decides to get an abortion has thought it through and has a good reason to do so. I also think that anyone who thinks they are ready for sex better be prepared to face consequences such as an STD or pregnancy.

I'll never have an abortion, obviously, so I'll never know what it would be like to have that question in my mind if I should or should not go through with one.

People should start worrying about themselves more than what other people do with their bodies.

That, very eloquently, sums up my feelings.

[Lazario]

So my point of view is that these people who get so upset (they are usually incredibly ignorant)

So anyone who opposes abortion is incredibly ignorant? That's like saying if your not Christian, you're incredibly ignorant. Or if you aren't gay, you're incredibly ignorant.

You're taking my point completely out of context. I'm saying it just usually happens that pro-lifers are ignorant. Totally coincidental. Besides, why are you concerned about the way I say things? It doesn't change the fact that you either get what I'm saying or you don't.

I won't debate but personally I'm pro-choice. I just hope whoever decides to get an abortion has thought it through and has a good reason to do so.

I think that's really all you can ask from people who consider an abortion.

Sometimes people just need to have an abortion, even people who otherwise disagree vehemently with it. But not even they want people poking around into their lives and trying to figure out why they're getting an abortion. It's the same way with anything else. It's also an issue of privacy and security.

[Siren]

You're taking my point completely out of context. I'm saying it just usually happens that pro-lifers are ignorant. Totally coincidental.

You know, they likely think the same of you. I tend to think outside the box of rather then "I'm right and you're wrong.", I respect what other's feel. Especially when it comes to abortion. As I said, there is NO right or wrong answer for it. It has pros and cons. It is a MAJOR decision. It is control of a life, that is not your own. I was pregnant for 9 months, yeah, she was a part of me, but she was still a seperate person. A seperate human being that I was blessed with. But pregnant at 19, unwed, and immature, I considered abortion. Then I found out it was too late for an aborotion. So I considered an adoption. Then the last month and a half, I changed my mind and decided to grow up and keep her. And I never looked back. I am NOT PROUD of thinking of aborting the pregnancy in the least. But I am glad I couldn't. I truely am not sure if I would have when I could. I was upset at the time when I found out and very sick. Perhaps if I thought longer I might have changed my mind. And I think I probably would have. But regardless, I saw no other choice but to have the baby. And I am glad I kept her. This is the first time I even discussed those feelings I had about aborting her since I found out I was pregnant 6 years ago. Not proud, but I feel okay.

But I've been there. I've been young, stupid, and pregnant with thoughts of abortion so I could go on with my young, stupid life. So perhaps I have a different perspective because of that. I am a pro-choicer, but when it came down to when it was with me, and my body, and my child, I likely would haven't aborted. I know I made the right decision. And that is what it is. It is a PERSONAL decision. One that shouldn't be taken as a right and wrong way to go, but as a turning point in a life. A total lost of innocence. The first ADULT decision. Yes, even more then sex. Because it doesn't involve your own little world where the sun and moon revolve around you. It involves a new life. A life you helped create. To sit back and say there is only ONE RIGHT answer is IMO, truely the ignorance. Because as I said so many times, there are no right and wrong answers in abortion. Just a major decision.
My prayers are always with those who choose life or choice when they are actually in the place of being the one who has control of a life.



And since I am posting a novel anyways...Me opionons.

If the mother and/or father has HIV/AIDS, it is likly the baby will too. I rather the child not suffer years of pain and torment from the disease.
If the mother is raped.
If the mother will die.

And other reasons as well...
Frankly a total outlaw of all abortions will create a blackmarket. Back to the wire hanger in an unsterlized back alley garage. If it MUST be done, then let it be done by a professional under the right conditions. People say it's painful and inhumane to abort the baby all together, but imagine it done by an unqualified quack who's done it on many dogs and thinks he/she is some "doctor". Many mothers, often young and children themselves, have fallen victim to these quacks and died on the operating table (aka, kitchen table, workbench, etc). Some may not feel any remorse for these mothers because they could have had the baby. Try telling that to these 12 year olds who have slumlord parents who force their children into the abortion, when it is the parent's fault in the first place their child got pregnant (remember my whole TV has custody speech? Same applies here). I'd sleep better knowning these babies who are having babies are being seen by a qualified doctor.

[chaychay102royal]

What makes you say that? The reputation for opponents of abortion to be thoughtless, selfish, and ignorant?

Lazario...remember what the moderators have been saying???

[chaychay102royal]

Oh, this is going to get ugly fast.

Agreed.

I might put in my opionons. But otherwise I will A.) Sit back and watch the fireworks with popcorn at my side or B.) Find better things to do with my time.

I have yet to see one civil debate about this subject. It always comes down to "I'm right, you're not only wrong, but a worthless idiot and maybe you should have been aborted.". I don't know how many times I've seen that line in some way/shape/form on these "debates". Actually I think my point has already been proven so far when this thread is in it's infancy. Don't worry, I bet you less then a month, I will get to say "I told you so" again

I agree with you, Siren.

I've mentioned this already, but I really think topics like gays and abortion should be outlawed on the forum for about a month or so. Until the memory of Rosie Causes A UD Meltdown wears off. So, with that said, I'm just going to watch the sparks fly until Luke or one of the moderators come in here and says: "all right, guys. Party's over. Go home, now. You've had enough fun."

[Lazario]

Lazario...remember what the moderators have been saying???

Um, last time I checked, you were not a moderator.

[Siren]

Lazario...remember what the moderators have been saying???

Um, last time I checked, you were not a moderator.

I can still be a citizen but remind my fellow neighbors of the law. Makes no difference she is a mod or not. She is a member who agrees to the TOS and expects the same from other members.

[chaychay102royal]

Um, last time I checked, you were not a moderator.

I can still be a citizen but remind my fellow neighbors of the law. Makes no difference she is a mod or not. She is a member who agrees to the TOS and expects the same from other members.

Thank you, Siren.

[Lazario]

I can still be a citizen but remind my fellow neighbors of the law. Makes no difference she is a mod or not. She is a member who agrees to the TOS and expects the same from other members.

How quaint.

[Siren]

Thank you, Siren.

You are most welcome.

[catNC]

I agree that this is going to get too heated too quickly!

I couldn't read any more of the first post so I apologize for speaking too soon, but abortion should NOT be used as a form of birth control. When you have sex you know there is a risk of getting pregnant. You take that risk along with the responsiblities that befall you. Yes there are extreme circumstances when abortion could be an option, such as rape, mother or baby's life, etc etc, but never should it be used because being pregnant is INCONVENIENT. Become a parent and you will understand what I am saying.

The way abortions are performed is the country is an atrocity. They do not offer counseling. Women are not told correctly of the physical risks during the procedure and for subsequent pregnancies. Women are not told of the psychological ramifications of having an abortion. Before abortions are performed, all of the info needs to be out in front of the woman. Why do I feel this way you ask? I have had one. And it is the by far the single biggest thing I regret doing in my life. I get sick at the thought of what was done, especially now that I am a mother.

I do not think the right to have one should be taken away. I just think it shouldn't be so easy to get one, and far more education needs to be involved in the decision process. Instead of shuffling women like a herd of cows through abortion mills. And that is exactly what they are... groups of women go in 20 or so at a time and one by one they go in for their procedure, each procedure costing anywhere from $300-$600. Very fast money for these establishments. It's just so sick and uncaring the way it is all done. It really needs to be changed!