HORRIFIED with the new Pocahontas...

[tttt]

Hi everyone.
I had the laserdisc box set. So I knew the sequence. The rough animation was beautiful in the first place so what they did with the clean animation is ok. but I disagree with what I read in a review. I'm pretty sure the flashback was not meant to be in the final cut. It was just there to fill a blank for test screenings while the movie was still in production. I have no proof of course but I'm sure of that. there's never been a flashback sequence in a "classic". it's just cheap. so I'm really disappointed with it because it doesn't even make any sense. they can't remember all these colors of the wind moments for instance because for me, those moments have not actually happened. they were more poetic illustrations of pocahontas' speech. so it's really heavy to have them repeated and it cancels their first power. and the blur effect? it would be acceptable... in a tv show.
but what HORRIFIED me is the unexpected reprise of the song near the end of the film. that is too much. the idea of having them reprise the song ruins a solemn moment. and the animation! it must have been made by the people who make the sequels because it has the same filthy quality: HYPERTROPHY. pocahontas looks like on the dvd cover: it's not her. and smith!!! he has that exagerated hugh grant eyebrow movement and over-acted opera singer lip movement which makes the moment ridiculous when it should be dramatic. they ruined the movie!

aren't the colors too bright on the dvd ? when we first see pocahontas (on her waterfall), she is orange.

[Teede]

I think it's a sequel.

[Jake Lipson]

Unfortunately, I haven't seen the new cut yet -- Phantom of the Opera was so expensive last week ($27, for the 2-disc version) it left me with no money for Pocahontas. So I can't comment on the strengths and/or weaknesses of the new version of the film. However, I'd just like to remind you that this is precisely why the DVD also contains the original theatrical version; pick and choose the version that you prefer.

I always watch the Special Edition of Beauty and the Beast since I love Human Again and think it adds another dimension to the film, but I only watced the Special Edition Lion King once out of curiosity; I never turned it on again because I feel that the Morning Report number damages the film. (It's a great song and works well in the Broadway musical, but its inclusion in the movie is pointless; it replaces a very funny dialogue sequence that was fine and needed no tweaking, and the new singing voice for Young Simba doesn't mesh well with his singing voice in I Just Can't Wait to Be King.) But this is why the DVDs contain two cuts. If you're dissatisfied with the new Pocahontas, at least the original is still there too, right?

Oh, and I think this topic should be merged with the exsisting Pocahontas SE discussion thread a little way's down.

[Teede]

Oh Special Edition right. (BTW. My birthday is May 20 and I'm gonna be 18.)

[Disneykid]

Actually, there are flashback scenes in The Lion King and Brother Bear, as well as a couple of others. Considering how much animation has had to have been made from scratch from these scenes, I doubt that the flashback was a place holder for something else, otherwise they would've animated whatever they had always intended. Besides, the blur effect is much worse in the work in progress version of the scene. I also have to partially disagree with the comments on animation. Yeah, John Smith looked rather funny (and for the record, his original supervising animator returned to animate him, here), but I thought Pocahontas looked perfect. You also to have to remember that we notice this more because the scenes are new. There are instances in other parts of the film where the characters look off-model, but we've seen those so many times since our first viewing that it's normal. If we had seen the film all along with these portions, I think the animation would've looked more natural for us.

As Jake said, you can still choose to watch the original theatrical cut of the film, so there's no real reason to whine.

[Siren]

I have yet to get the Special Edition, but I plan to. I saw "If I Never Knew You" on ABC several years ago and I liked it. And the cover isn't the worst I've seen. Refer to Lion King's first VHS cover for that one

Human Again was nice. And it was originally suppost to be in the movie and was cut, so it still fit well story wise, but animation, you could tell it was different.
Lion King's animation from original to the addition was smooth. But the song was not what I would have chose. If Disney should have chosen ANY song out of the Broadway show, it should have been either Shadowlands or Endless Night. I mean besides "I went to find help." line from Nala, there was little else there. I mean, what was she looking for for help? It was bad, yeah, but worth traveling all those miles, alone, through a desert and then into an unfamiliar jungle? And then when she comes upon the first male lion who maybe he could help her, she just makes the fight worse. So I never bought the whole "I went to find help." thing. When I got the soundtrack to Lion King, it added a much better dimension to Scar and Nala. She wasn't looking for help essentially, just trying to escape Scar and his madness and the fact that he pretty much was going to rape her. So yeah, go through the scorching desert to avoid that. I can understand that. It would also be a big reason for her to be wary of any male lion. So if any song, Shadowlands would have been beautiful. Endless Night is a close second.

[tttt]

well, the thing is that I love the If I never knew you sequence. I think the film is better with than without it. MY cut would be a version with the new segment but with original material instead of the flashback and without the reprise in the end.

[deathie mouse]

Oye Teede, if you want your b-day recorded there's a proper thread for that with instructions and everything. Also try not to do mono non sensical sentencial replys specially like split into two different posts separated by merely decaseconds apart



About the Pocahontas, well as mentioned it's good you can still see the original cut. Maybe tttt can re-edit the new sequences to his satisfaction with the materials available?

[tu]

there's a long flashback in Atlantis too. i believe that's the director's decision because so many people were wroking on to put this new scene back,i think that's what they just want to do. i love the new song added back.
but i totally agree,the "reprise" is just too much,
when John Smith sing" i have lived my whole live though...." all i want to do is laugh ,it's so funny to look at his mouth!


tu

[Dick Saucer]

eh, there's only so much you can do visually with being trapped inside the tee-pee anyway. the flashback scene works fine.

[ichabod]

I think that it is worth pointing out that the reprise at the end of the film was intended to be there from the start. It's not as if they just decided to do it for the new DVD. If you listen to the audio commentary it does explain it.

[Sunset Girl]

I really, really like the Pocahontas special edition. I'd already seen the sequence in pencil test form and I'm so glad it's back in the film where it belongs. And I don't have any problems with the flashback sequence.

I have yet to get the Special Edition, but I plan to. I saw "If I Never Knew You" on ABC several years ago and I liked it. And the cover isn't the worst I've seen. Refer to Lion King's first VHS cover for that one

Yeah, my friend once commented that the characters on TLK's cover looked like balloons, and I had to agree with her!

Human Again was nice. And it was originally suppost to be in the movie and was cut, so it still fit well story wise, but animation, you could tell it was different.

Yeah, I'll agree the fact that they added it to the film was nice.

Lion King's animation from original to the addition was smooth. But the song was not what I would have chose.

I don't care much for this; to me it's more disappointing than anything else. . .

If Disney should have chosen ANY song out of the Broadway show, it should have been either Shadowlands or Endless Night. I mean besides "I went to find help." line from Nala, there was little else there. I mean, what was she looking for for help? It was bad, yeah, but worth traveling all those miles, alone, through a desert and then into an unfamiliar jungle? And then when she comes upon the first male lion who maybe he could help her, she just makes the fight worse. So I never bought the whole "I went to find help." thing. When I got the soundtrack to Lion King, it added a much better dimension to Scar and Nala. She wasn't looking for help essentially, just trying to escape Scar and his madness and the fact that he pretty much was going to rape her. So yeah, go through the scorching desert to avoid that. I can understand that. It would also be a big reason for her to be wary of any male lion. So if any song, Shadowlands would have been beautiful. Endless Night is a close second.

Exactly! I've always said that I'd kill to see Shadowlands animated and inserted in the film, long before there was any talk of doing that with the Morning Report; it would've added so much more depth to the story. It's a much better explanation than "I went to find help," and makes Scar look even more evil.

[Wonderlicious]

I hadn't seen Pocahontas in a long time before I saw the special edition when I got the DVD, so I really couldn't tell any difference like I could with The Lion King or Beauty and the Beast of which I was more familiar with. However, I saw the same scene again in the original version, and I have to say that the old version feels more abrupt. I can understand how you could not like the new version; I prefer the normal versions of Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King, for example as the old versions have more sentimental value to me. However, I think that if I see Pocahontas again, I'll watch the special edition as it's a bit better.

[Siren]

Exactly! I've always said that I'd kill to see Shadowlands animated and inserted in the film, long before there was any talk of doing that with the Morning Report; it would've added so much more depth to the story. It's a much better explanation than "I went to find help," and makes Scar look even more evil

When I first heard they wew adding a song, The Morning Report never even entered my mind. I figured it would have been either Endless Night, Shadowlands, They Live In You, or even the Warthog Rhapsody. The Warthog Rhapsody was like Human Again. It was meant to be in the movie. But both songs were cut out due to timing conflicts and the fact that those character already had a musical number (Be Our Guest and Hakuna Matata). Out of all the songs, Morning Report was by far the lowest in my favorites. Not a bad song, but not up to par with the rest and essentially, a useless song. The entire scene works just as good, actually better, without a musical number both in the movie and Broadway. While They Live in You, Shadowlands, and Endless Night add more dimensions and emotions to the characters. Madness of King Scar also was another song that may have fit better into the movie.
I was lucky enough to see the Broadway show on my trip to Boston and it was gorgeous! Shadowlands and Endless Night by far rank very high on my scale of beautiful laments.


LOL, oh, I thought of a good song for the movie instead of Morning Report...."Chow Down", I loved that song! The Hyena's Rock Anthem. It was great

[2099net]

Yes. But the Morning Report is short. And animation is expensive...

[Disney-Fan]

Yes. But the Morning Report is short. And animation is expensive...

On the other hand, Human Again was quite long and it worked much better and was overall more satisfying!

[akhenaten]

i never liked human again. be it the song nor the new sequence. everything looked out of place and the castle was more relevant to the belle's magical adventure setting. the animation is very cheap especially of the wardrobe and the curtain. im yet to see pocahontas' new scene and im very worried since pocahontas is the film that means the most to me.

[Sunset Girl]

im yet to see pocahontas' new scene and im very worried since pocahontas is the film that means the most to me.

Well, just take comfort in the fact that it was originally supposed to be there, but was cut after most of the pencil animation was finished. Most of the adults in the test audiences thoroughly enjoyed it, but they were too quick to listen to the kids complain that it was too long and boring.

[Joe Carioca]

As I posted in the official Pocahontas toppic, I also had a few problems with the newly-created animation for this special edition. But now, after watching it quite a few times, I've already got used to it, and as Disneykid said, we only notice it because we've seen the original version so many times. Regardless of the quality of the animation, this is the version of "Pocahontas" that should be seen from now on.

If you read the end credits for the 10th anniversary edition, you are going to see that there has been as much work to refurbish the film for this DVD edition as there have been for the DVDs of "Beauty and the Beast", "Aladdin" and "The Lion King". A good part of the original crew returned to supervise the new edition, including supervising animators Mark Henn and John Pomeroy. With all this work involved, it's a mistery to me why Disney chose to underpromote this title.

[Fidget1234]

when John Smith sing" i have lived my whole live though...." all i want to do is laugh ,it's so funny to look at his mouth!

I have a version thats 'from the movie' & it has that part along w/ them singing the rest :
"And Im so gratefull to you"-Pocahontas
"I'd have lived my whole life through"-John (yeah his mouth does look dunny there! haha)
(Spoken) "Time to go John"-Thomas
(sung) "Empty as the sky" -pocahontas, ("Good luck lad, godspeed John" is spoken afterwards by the settlers) "never knowing why"-sung by John, " lost forever if I never knew you" sung by both together.... & then it plays the music that goes into the end theme where she runs to meet the boat leave port from the cliff....

it sounds better w/ the rest of the lyrics added yet they werent added in either...

Also in that version when John Smith says "Come with me?"
Before Cheif powatan talks Nakoma says "Pocahontas, the fighting stopped because of you, if you leave who knows what will happen"
then it goes to the cheif saying "You much choose your own path".